Collision and demasting

[marcs]

things are very clear from behind a computer

I am very sorry for what you and your wife went through and I understand the incident is still very raw and ongoing for you. But please realize folks aren't attacking you when they are discussing their experiences and ideas about how they try or might try to avoid similar incidents, on a Trawler Forum.

For example, I posted about radar to share my personal experience of how newer radar technology is much lower power draw, instant on, instant indication of what targets are moving towards you, easier to interpret and could have a big place in someone's toolkit. That doesn't mean I'm saying anything about what you should have done or that any of my commentary is applicable to your specific situation.

Unsubscribing now.

 

[Davil1]

collision

being the thread that refuses to die.

reading Sail Magazine (free edition), an article regarding the Orcas situation found this comment I think applies

The point of this story is that, as .... said, there are always unavoidable risks when we go to sea. It’s our job to identify and mitigate those risks. That’s just plain old seamanship.

Personally, I include all AVAILABLE AIDS TO NAVIGATION

YES, those include AIS and RADAR!!!!

Kind of irritated feeling to have to apologize/justify the use of any aid to navigation that adds to my safety and the safety of my boat and crew,
to those, not having them on board.

It took me a full year of work and considerable expenses to bring my sailboat to my standards of what a seaworthy vessel is, those standards include ALL available Aids to Navigation, electronics and non electronics, as well the monitoring they are in working conditions,yes,including they are charged if depending on electric power

I need to make sure I can survive any situation, nature, or man made threatens because at sea is just me.

I think Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harris put it in few words.

A man got to know his limitations!!

 

[BruceK]

Silver lining,a total insurance loss presents the opportunity to purchase a trawler.

 

[Davil1]

Silver lining,a total insurance loss presents the opportunity to purchase a trawler.

--------------------------------------------------------


actually not planning to wait for a loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Don L]

Silver lining,a total insurance loss presents the opportunity to purchase a trawler.

There is no silver lining!!!

 

[PierreR]

It's quite nice to have AIS and Radar practically within your line of sight while sitting in a comfortable bridge chair with heat, a cup of coffee and maintain a comfortable watch. Not every boat is created equal and humans are subject to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. As such, there by the grace of god go I.
At the other end of the scale, you could have a long sailboat with high trunk and deep rear cockpit, tiller steering and a dodger, on a cold night, nearing port after a hard day at sea. I am not saying this was Don's situation. That configuration would likely have the AIS and Radar down below and not in the line of sight. After thousands of mile you get use to your boat and your ability. Human nature being what it is, the ability to discriminate and process information can lead the very best to this accident.

Hindsight, with a warm cup of Irish coffee in front of a computer, with plenty of time to contemplate is 20-20. Even here the ability to discriminate leads to all kinds of speculation about what to do and none of it consistent. Far better than me has ended up in Davey Jones locker.
My eyesight, reflexes and ability to process complicated abstract information has waned over the years. Thank you for a warm trawler and mostly daylight travel in a flying bridge with no enclosure.

 

[Davil1]

I
My eyesight, reflexes and ability to process complicated abstract information has waned over the years. Thank you for a warm trawler and mostly daylight travel in a flying bridge with no enclosure.

===============================
amen to that

that is why I am looking for a trawler after a life of sailing and checking this forum for ideas/experiences.

 

[Don L]

So back to me:

I have now gotten the insurance repair estimate, which I feels misses things. I am pretty sure my wife and I are out of boating after this so it comes down to how to handle getting out.

My Agreed Value is $59,900 (under insured because of being in Florida). Right now the estimate is $56,250. I can see missing items on the estimate that would I feel once added will exceed my insurance value. So the choices I see are:

1 - Press to get the estimate increased to more than the Agreed Value, get a check check for $59,900 and walk away easy.

2 - Repair the boat and risk that it will be more than Agreed Value that I have to make up the difference of (if it costs less it means nothing bottom line to me). Then sell a repaired boat that will have new sails, mast, boom, standing and running rigging,new mast lights, radar, VHF antenna. Currently the lowest priced Hunter 410 list for sale is $85k. I don't want to draw out my pain of selling holding out for the highest price so was thinking $80k. Assuming the repair runs $5k over the Agreed Value I would away with $75k

So do 1 and get out easy and collect $60k, or do 2 and HOPE to sell easy and walk away with $75k. $15k is $15k, but I am not sure it is the real driver as there is a lot of emotion still in play.

What would the faceless forums members do?

 

[Osprey69]

So back to me:

I have now gotten the insurance repair estimate, which I feels misses things. I am pretty sure my wife and I are out of boating after this so it comes down to how to handle getting out.

My Agreed Value is $59,900 (under insured because of being in Florida). Right now the estimate is $56,250. I can see missing items on the estimate that would I feel once added will exceed my insurance value. So the choices I see are:

1 - Press to get the estimate increased to more than the Agreed Value, get a check check for $59,900 and walk away easy.

2 - Repair the boat and risk that it will be more than Agreed Value that I have to make up the difference of (if it costs less it means nothing bottom line to me). Then sell a repaired boat that will have new sails, mast, boom, standing and running rigging,new mast lights, radar, VHF antenna. Currently the lowest priced Hunter 410 list for sale is $85k. I don't want to draw out my pain of selling holding out for the highest price so was thinking $80k. Assuming the repair runs $5k over the Agreed Value I would away with $75k

So do 1 and get out easy and collect $60k, or do 2 and HOPE to sell easy and walk away with $75k. $15k is $15k, but I am not sure it is the real driver as there is a lot of emotion still in play.

What would the faceless forums members do?

Non-faceless here. I would take insurance money and run. Pandoras box of repairs never ends well. Emotional baggage, time and energy to repair is an opportunity lost for more pleasant endeavors. Then when surveyed the repairs may pop up and the buyer may not want to take a "risk" on further "hidden" damage (which may or may not exist or be revealed during repair).

Good luck for you and The Admiral with whatever you do

 

[oguidry]

Who did the insurance repair estimate? Post Katrina the damage to our GB36 was estimated by a surveyor who primarily did commercial vessels and grossly under estimated repair costs. I hired my own surveyor at the suggestion of the boat yard. I had a lot of confidence in the boat yard. I took the suggestion and my surveyor negotiated directly with the insurance company and the other surveyor. The ultimate insurance payment was much more reasonable.

In your case, hiring your own surveyor may not be cost effective for only a $3,500 difference. My personal opinion, if you do not plan on keeping this boat, is to take the money.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I would take the pay out and walk away. Heartbreaking I'm sure. But IMO the best course of action.

 

[rgano]

I would take the pay out and walk away. Heartbreaking I'm sure. But IMO the best course of action.

I agree because unless your financial condition demands the extra cash you might get, the mental and physical strain of going through a repair process is simply not worth the paltry gain.

 

[Mac G]

If you wanted to stay in boating and like that boat I would just fix her and continue sailing her because you know what is what and what to expect.

However, if you want to get out of boating, then I agree with Osprey - take the money and run.

Why prolong your agony? Selling a boat is never easy, especially with a now dubious history of possible unknwon latent issues. And you have to pay a broker and continue to pay insurance and storage while waiting for a closing that could be many months away.

Take the check and be glad you are both phyically intact - have heard of others in similar accidents not so fortunate.

 

[SteveK]

But what about the trawler you were looking for? Golden opportunity, let insurance buy you boat and start shopping.

 

[Larry M]

You didn’t mention if the insurance company has seen the estimate, so I assume they haven’t. When they do, I'll willing to bet they offer you the agree valve less your deductible. Insurance companies rarely will repair vs total when the estimate is that close to the agreed value.

 

[Don L]

You didn’t mention if the insurance company has seen the estimate, so I assume they haven’t. When they do, I'll willing to bet they offer you the agree valve less your deductible. Insurance companies rarely will repair vs total when the estimate is that close to the agreed value.

The estimate is FROM the insurance company.

They may be trying to do right be me as once the boat is repaired with all the new stuff the boat is probably worth around $100k

 

[rslifkin]

Sometimes if the estimate is close enough to the insured value they can be swayed either way as far as fix vs total. It's not always a hard line that can't be crossed.

 

[PNK]

take the insurance or repair?

Before making a decision one way or the other, and assuming you would like to keep your boat, maybe get an estimate from a repair yard you trust, to see if they are close to the insurance co.? The insurance estimate seems light to me; a friend had to recently replace his mast, on a 42' sailboat, but not a Hunter, and it came to around $30,000, which didn't include any rigging or sails.
You likely have already done this, but, as others have written, once you start down the repair path, you can run into unexpected issues that run the cost up beyond the settlement amount.
Good luck whichever way you decide.
Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

You will have to declare this event and details of repair unless it’s a private sale.even then it’s maybe problematic if you don’t. Also it would be unethical. Unless priced very right it may be difficult to sell and recoup what was put into it.

Go for getting it totaled . A few hundred bucks to get a repair cost above insured value is very short money. Make sure you use someone who’s an active member of both of the survey societies.

What you do with the payoff is entirely up to you.

 

[Larry M]

Estimates are just that, estimates. In the late 90s we had a boat that was damaged in a boat yard. The insurance companies surveyor, who then defaulted to a boat yard gave us an estimate of $22k. By the time we got out of there, 4 months later, the bill was ~$66k.

 

[DNT99611]

I think a lot of it depends on how much you are willing and able to do yourself. Not apples to apples but last fall I hit a rock with my small power boat. Ripped open a eight foot section of the keel and wiped out the lower unit on the outboard. The insured value was 45,000. They cut me a check for $39,000. I got a new lower unit, cut out a 2 foot by 8 foot section of the bottom and then glassed it all back together. Two weeks working time and she is all back together.
So I guess I am saying there are other ways to go and not pay a yard $150 an hour to do it.

 

[Don L]

Well it sounds whether I repair the boat or not the insurance pays me $59,900 and I still own the boat. I currently estimate the repairs at $64,125.

That's with the boat yard doing the work and all new rigging. Someone willing to do the deck fiberglass and rub rail work could save $8k Could be done in the water. And if they source a used mast and boom, still getting 100% new rigging of course, could probably save another $5k.

So now I need to figure out how to get rid of an unrepaired boat.

 

[rslifkin]

Well it sounds whether I repair the boat or not the insurance pays me $59,900 and I still own the boat. I currently estimate the repairs at $64,125.

That's with the boat yard doing the work and all new rigging. Someone willing to do the deck fiberglass and rub rail work could save $8k Could be done in the water. And if they source a used mast and boom, still getting 100% new rigging of course, could probably save another $5k.

So now I need to figure out how to get rid of an unrepaired boat.

In that case, I'd list it for sale as-is and see what interest you get. If it's not selling quickly, maybe start on some repairs (anything you can do easily or cheaply) and increase the asking price as more of the issues get fixed.

What's the general summary of things that need repair beyond the replacement rig?

 

[Don L]

a couple of 6" cracks in the deck fiberglass, some gel coat cracks, rub rail cap and sealing and pounding the protective rubber rail back out it, clear windows in dodger replaced, new frame for the dodger

The boat only hit the FV for about 3 feet of boat length on the stern corner and it was at the strongest most reinforced place on the boat so it "bounced off"

 

[rslifkin]

a couple of 6" cracks in the deck fiberglass, some gel coat cracks, rub rail cap and sealing and pounding the protective rubber rail back out it, clear windows in dodger replaced, new frame for the dodger

The boat only hit the FV for about 3 feet of boat length on the stern corner and it was at the strongest most reinforced place on the boat so it "bounced off"

That's certainly very fixable for someone with the right skills, so I expect someone will want the boat, although it may take a little while to find the right buyer.

 

[CharlieO.]

What would you value the boat at as it sits?

 

[Don L]

What would you value the boat at as it sits?

I think I will list it somewhere around $15-20k. The boat is fully useable right now as a fuel efficient power boat and is pretty comfortable. I bet I myself could do the fiberglass work in a week (probably couldn't match the gelcoat color good)

 

[rslifkin]

I think I will list it somewhere around $15-20k. The boat is fully useable right now as a fuel efficient power boat and is pretty comfortable. I bet I myself could do the fiberglass work in a week (probably couldn't match the gelcoat color good)

If there are no bites on a listing in a reasonable amount of time and you're up for it, it might be worth doing the fiberglass repairs and upping the asking price a little. Then it's a turn-key "weird trawler" for someone, or a "just add a rig" kit for a sailboat.

 

[SteveK]

Well it sounds whether I repair the boat or not the insurance pays me $59,900 and I still own the boat. I currently estimate the repairs at $64,125.

So now I need to figure out how to get rid of an unrepaired boat.

I insure for agreed value which is below purchase price. I consider that depreciation. Now I will have to review my policy. I would not want the payout and still own the boat. I thought insurance either fixes it or buys the hulk for the agreed value. I have heard others say they would buy back the boat and fix it, but this is the first time I heard you still own it after payout.

Disposal comes to mind. How much would that cost? Comes off the agreed value means a loss of $$$.

 

[Don L]

I thought insurance either fixes it or buys the hulk for the agreed value. .

It has to do with the Market Value, which is not the Agreed Value.