Furuno and Timezero Pro

[La Sirena]

I have been cruising up and down the East Coast from Maine to the Bahamas, but will venture further south and potentially through the Panama Canal and up the West Coast. So I need some charts that cover those areas.

A prior owner installed 2 Furuno 14" TZtouch (the original), one in the pilot house and one on the flybridge. He also installed a Garmin GPSMap 8000 MFD next to the TZtouch in the pilot house. The AP is connected to the Garmin, and the Furuno radar is connected to the TZtouch.

The Garmin frequently and randomly goes into SOS mode, looses some of my customized settings and needs to be rebooted to work. Updating the software only made it worse. The Garmin has to go.

I'm thinking of installing a computer and monitor running Timezero Professional next to the TZtouch in the pilot house. It should be compatible with my Furuno gear, and will have some advanced navigation features, and I can get a larger display for less money than another Furuno MFD. It should add some redundancy also. I want to go with a built in monitor, not a laptop.

So my question is: What computer would you recommend? I've read the TZ system requirements, and I'd like it to run on 24VDC (not 120VAC), be fanless, and have a SSD. It will be mounted under the helm station. I was thinking of https://navroc.com/marine-computers/

What monitor would you recommend? The ones built for marine applications are really pricey. The Furuno MFDs are 1920x1080 resolution with 900 cd/m2 brightness. Do I need something that bright if it's in the pilot house? I have space for about 21" wide max., and I'd like it to run on 24VDC if possible.

Does installing Timezero sound like a good idea, and what hardware would you recommend?

Thanks, Richard

 

[twistedtree]

Fanless is nice, but I'm not convinced it's that important, especially when it drives the price way up and/or constrains what you can get.


An alternative to consider is an Intel NUC.


Be sure to sort through how all your navigation data will get in/out of the computer. I see the NavRoc computers have RS-232 ports for NMEA 0183, however NMEA 0183 is RS-422, not RS-232. The two can often be made to work together, but it involves running one or both out of spec, and works by luck, not by design. I would only use a real RS-422 port. And for NMEA 2000, you will need to check what TZ supports.


The majority of the cost for such a setup is in the monitor, and primarily attributable to the brightness and dimability of the display. Personally I think high brightness (900 NIT minimum) is very important, even in a pilot house. When you are looking back and forth between a bright outside, and a monitor on a console, you will really appreciate the brighter screen. Without it, your eyes will always be trying to adjust back and forth between the brightness level looking though the window, and the lower light level of the screen. This gets much worse when the sun is low and in front of you, and gets worse again when you have sun glasses on. In these situations I think the higher brightness is worth every penny.

 

[bkcorwin]

The NUC is a great option. I've helped a buddy put two in his boat, I've put 3 in my boat, and i have four others in my home. Its a very good platform cheap. It is also a easily available commodity item vs a niche item like the navroc. I can get a replacement nuc to my door in amazon in less than 24 hours.

Pretty sure most new NUCS run on 19v but there were older ones i believe that could run on 12-24 i believe. Personally i'd prefer to run my computers off clean power from an inverter or an isolated dcdc transformer just to avoid any noise from the 12v bus.

 

[sean9c]

I bought a monitor from these guys. Mine is 17", sunlight viewable, 1000 nits, fully dimable, and was about $1k. It runs on 12vdc but is intended to get that from 120VAC power supply. I run mine on a 12VDC to 12VDC converter just to stabilize the voltage. I'm not sure that's necessary but did it anyway.
https://tru-vumonitors.com/sunlight-readable-monitors/

 

[Serene]

I came across these when researching new electronics;

https://digitalyacht.com.au/product-category/pc-systems/aqua-pcs/

But a NUC would be much cheaper and can run off DC too.

 

[TF_BG]

Have TZ Professional & Maretron running in my pilot house on three 24” Sceptre monitors. Also have Furuno TZtouch3 at the flybridge helm. The Sceptre IPS monitors are viewable with polarized sunglasses. The boat originally had a 27” Samsung monitor in the center, I removed it (replaced with Sceptre) because you had to turn your head sideways to see the screen with polarized sunglasses.

 

[SailorGreg]

I have been cruising up and down the East Coast from Maine to the Bahamas, but will venture further south and potentially through the Panama Canal and up the West Coast. So I need some charts that cover those areas.



A prior owner installed 2 Furuno 14" TZtouch (the original), one in the pilot house and one on the flybridge. He also installed a Garmin GPSMap 8000 MFD next to the TZtouch in the pilot house. The AP is connected to the Garmin, and the Furuno radar is connected to the TZtouch.



The Garmin frequently and randomly goes into SOS mode, looses some of my customized settings and needs to be rebooted to work. Updating the software only made it worse. The Garmin has to go.



I'm thinking of installing a computer and monitor running Timezero Professional next to the TZtouch in the pilot house. It should be compatible with my Furuno gear, and will have some advanced navigation features, and I can get a larger display for less money than another Furuno MFD. It should add some redundancy also. I want to go with a built in monitor, not a laptop.



So my question is: What computer would you recommend? I've read the TZ system requirements, and I'd like it to run on 24VDC (not 120VAC), be fanless, and have a SSD. It will be mounted under the helm station. I was thinking of https://navroc.com/marine-computers/



What monitor would you recommend? The ones built for marine applications are really pricey. The Furuno MFDs are 1920x1080 resolution with 900 cd/m2 brightness. Do I need something that bright if it's in the pilot house? I have space for about 21" wide max., and I'd like it to run on 24VDC if possible.



Does installing Timezero sound like a good idea, and what hardware would you recommend?



Thanks, Richard

Hi,
Just a note of caution.... you will be mixing Furuno systems, your autopilot ( I don't think you mentioned the brand of ap) and a pc based system running Windows underneath the Time Zero. Not sure which system will drive the autopilot, if any.
It would likely be more expensive, but a Furuno TZT2 black box with a third party large display, Green Marine for example, would allow for a higher level of integration via N2000 backbone. The systems could still be operated independently after partial failure. AquaMap on a pad could be another level of redundancy. Just something to consider as you move forward.
And yes, you will want 900 NITS or so

 

[bkcorwin]

I'd love to hear a more detailed explanation of what you mean by "higher level of integration" with a tzt2bb.

 

[twistedtree]

I'd love to hear a more detailed explanation of what you mean by "higher level of integration" with a tzt2bb.

Yeah, if possible I'd avoid the BB. A NUC system will be much less expensive, take less space, and be more maintainable and upgradable than a proprietary system.

 

[mbevins]

Add in the Coastal explorer NEMO Gateway to connect devices to NUC.

 

[scott_free]

I can say the Intel NUC units are very solid. I have been using on my boat and my father's boat for several years. Mounted in flybridge console so not completely out of elements and never had a problem.

Scott

 

[guy with a boat]

Yeah, if possible I'd avoid the BB. A NUC system will be much less expensive, take less space, and be more maintainable and upgradable than a proprietary system.

I second this, and I’ve had the BB/Time zero pro combo and now have (2) Time zero pro systems running on a NUC and an older Marine PC. I much prefer the PC-based systems. Better in all respects, IMO.

 

[Airstream345]

We run FURUNO sensors all connected to a 12V POE hub. They feed two independent Intel NUCs each running TZ Navigator (the recreational version). They are licensed for Radar and Sounder (Navigator licensing allows two computer installations).

Each NUC uses an Actisense USB to NMEA2000 into the backbone. Data flows freely back and forth between the networks including sentances for the Simrad AP28 (one TZ is primary so changes made on one show up on the other).

Finally, we use two VERY large gaming monitors that allow very bright viewing and also can get very dark. We've been using them every day up and back to Alaska. In very bright sun even in the PH I'll often have polarized sunglasses on and can see everything just fine and for night operations we can take the monitors down really low and put TZ into "red" night mode.

Finally, we use TZiBoat on an iPad which is also integrated into everything in the helm for the flybridge and in the master stateroom for anchor watch.

It's pretty amazing and given the size of the monitors, we can split them into two sources and run cameras on one and SignalK apps on the other.

 

[ChristineKling]

Yeah, if possible I'd avoid the BB. A NUC system will be much less expensive, take less space, and be more maintainable and upgradable than a proprietary system.

I agree. The Furuno guys told us that the BB they sell basically just contains two Windows computers that they have formatted.

Biggest issues I have had with running a purely no-MFD, computer-based TimeZero system is with the monitors and with the need to have 2 ethernet cards to keep the TimeZero stuff (radar, bottom discriminating sounder, M300 FLIR camera) on its own network separate from boat cameras and boat router to the Internet.

I built a mini-tower Windows PC with a fancy Nvidia graphics card, but it still only had 1 HDMI port and 4 Display ports. The 2 marine monitors we bought only had DVI and VGA. I've already had to replace that $380 graphics card once when it failed. The mini fanless computer I bought for the flybridge only had 1 HDMI and 1 Display port that required an "active" cable that was very difficult to find in a length longer than 6 feet. It's not that easy to find cables with Display Port on one end and DVI on the other, for example. Cables have been a real PITA with our set-up, and I didn't think about that when shopping for computers.

So my advice to anyone seeking to buy a computer for navigation purposes is if you want to have multiple monitors, try to get at least 2 HDMI ports on the computer and try to find one with 2 LAN ports. Most of the smaller computers that are off the shelf are not very upgradeable, so get what you want from the start. In that respect, the NUC computers either come in the most varied configurations or are more configurable after the fact.

I also didn't think about how the computers might be buried away in cabinetry that might be a pain to open. I was able to add a remote on/off button on the bigger computer I built, but not on the little Kingdel fanless mini PC I bought on Amazon. So, if you are married to a frugal guy who obsesses over getting all the lights turned off all the time and has to shut down the computers all the time, think about how easy (or not) it will be to turn them on again.

 

[slowpoke2]

Have TZ Professional & Maretron running in my pilot house on three 24” Sceptre monitors. Also have Furuno TZtouch3 at the flybridge helm. The Sceptre IPS monitors are viewable with polarized sunglasses. The boat originally had a 27” Samsung monitor in the center, I removed it (replaced with Sceptre) because you had to turn your head sideways to see the screen with polarized sunglasses.

We have exactly the same as the above (including the TZ Touch on the bridge). The pilothouse runs on a Dell computer with Dell monitors. The system has been running 27/7/365 since installed in 2017 without a glitch. We have no sunlight viewable problems 99.5% of the time. There is the polarized sunglasses issue, but we don't tend to wear them in the pilot house.

Integration of the Timezero Professional software and other Furuno gear is phenomenal, I can plot and start a route in the pilothouse, change it on or stop it from the flybridge. Charts are shared between them and radar / AIS is visible on both. I highly recommend the PC based software, so much easier to use.

Happy to answer questions.

Tim
Slowpoke II
Fleming 55
Toronto Canada

 

[Serene]

[SNIP]

The 2 marine monitors we bought only had DVI and VGA.

[SNIP]

Not surprising you had trouble finding cables, as those video formats are VERY old and there are very few video cards that support them these days.

DisplayPort, mini DisplayPort, HDMI, Thunderbolt (USB-C connector) and DisplayPort over USB-C are today's way to connect video to a PC.

 

[twistedtree]

Not surprising you had trouble finding cables, as those video formats are VERY old and there are very few video cards that support them these days.

DisplayPort, mini DisplayPort, HDMI, Thunderbolt (USB-C connector) and DisplayPort over USB-C are today's way to connect video to a PC.

DVI to HDMI is a simple converter plug, and I think completely passive. I use them with the same monitors that Christine has for a variety of devices that output HDMI.

 

[bkcorwin]

gen 13 Nucs have dual HDMI ports. You could then use the onboard ethernet port to connect to your navnet and then use the wifi to connect to the internet. Or throw a usb3 or thunderbolt ethernet adapter in.

I'm running passive hdmi to DVI-d cables to drive my hattelands.

 

[fgarriso]

15" Dell laptop all the I/O ports. With a laptop you have a built in battery backup.

 

[La Sirena]

Thanks everyone for your input. It's been very valuable. My biggest challenge is identifying 21.5" monitors that are reasonably priced. I'm choosing 21.5" because it's the biggest I can fit, and they are 1920x1080 resolution. I'd like them to be panel mounted and work with polarized sunglasses. I guess the brightness can be controlled by Windows software.

 

[tozz]

Thanks everyone for your input. It's been very valuable. My biggest challenge is identifying 21.5" monitors that are reasonably priced. I'm choosing 21.5" because it's the biggest I can fit, and they are 1920x1080 resolution. I'd like them to be panel mounted and work with polarized sunglasses. I guess the brightness can be controlled by Windows software.

We had a 'marine' anti-glare monitor fail and in searching for a replacement the marine monitors were pretty expensive. After talking to a couple of folks including Steve Mitchell (seabits.com), we went with a Beetronics monitor (www.beetronics.com) for a replacement. I flush mounted it right into the helm without any issues at all. There is some glare on sunny days but it is more than manageable...but nothing that made the monitor unusable. We ran all summer without any anti-glare coating or after market products on ours and it was fine in terms of visibility.

-tozz

 

[slowpoke2]

We use a 3rd party windows program to adjust brightness.

https://www.nelsonpires.com/software/dimmer

Tim

 

[La Sirena]

The Beetronics 22HB9M 22HB9M monitor looks good, and it's priced at $949, not bad. I'm also looking at the Maple Systems https://www.maplesystems.com/product/modelname/mon1021aph MON1021APH. I'm going to need a keyboard and mouse for Time Zero, right? If I do, then maybe it is best to get a laptop computer instead of a NUC or industrial computer. I'd need to secure it somehow because I've had some situations where things on the helm station end up on the floor during heavy seas.

 

[tozz]

The Beetronics 22HB9M 22HB9M monitor looks good, and it's priced at $949, not bad. I'm also looking at the Maple Systems https://www.maplesystems.com/product/modelname/mon1021aph MON1021APH. I'm going to need a keyboard and mouse for Time Zero, right? If I do, then maybe it is best to get a laptop computer instead of a NUC or industrial computer. I'd need to secure it somehow because I've had some situations where things on the helm station end up on the floor during heavy seas.

Yes for kb and mouse. As for form factor, that's personal preference. We replaced a tower PC with the NUC. It came with a mounting plate so it can be wall mounted and secured. I mounted it to the underside of a shelf in a cabinet up in our pilothouse.

-tozz

 

[MYTraveler]

Yeah, if possible I'd avoid the BB. A NUC system will be much less expensive, take less space, and be more maintainable and upgradable than a proprietary system.

My original installation included 3 BBs, driving 6 unique screens, several of which were mirrored, with the net result that I had 4 screens in the PH, 4 in the flybridge, 1 in the tower and 1 in the cockpit. The BBs failed (or, more specifically, their graphics cards, which were no longer available from Furuno or anywhere else, and no other card could be used because Furuno had locked down the OS to the point that installing 3rd party drivers was not possible. As a result, I replaced the BBs with 2 NUCs, and added a few MFD's for the tower, cockpit and flybridge. A much better configuration.

 

[Airstream345]

The Beetronics 22HB9M 22HB9M monitor looks good, and it's priced at $949, not bad. I'm also looking at the Maple Systems https://www.maplesystems.com/product/modelname/mon1021aph MON1021APH. I'm going to need a keyboard and mouse for Time Zero, right? If I do, then maybe it is best to get a laptop computer instead of a NUC or industrial computer. I'd need to secure it somehow because I've had some situations where things on the helm station end up on the floor during heavy seas.

We use a wireless mouse and keyboard for each NUC and also use Mouse without Borders to use one mouse/keyboard across two different computers.

Some users prefer using a trackball mouse for more stability moving the pointer in sporty sea states.

 

[Iggy]

For what its worth...... I bought this laptop to run TZ. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/lapt...ies/yoga-9i-gen-8-(14-inch-intel)/len101y0025 There is a option for a 500 nits screen.

I also connected the NMEA2k network to the USB port. This give me AIS info, heading and more. Whats good about this model is that the keyboard folds back and the touch screen. So I can bring it forward/in-line with my Simrad displaying radar.

 

[guy with a boat]

The Beetronics 22HB9M 22HB9M monitor looks good, and it's priced at $949, not bad. I'm also looking at the Maple Systems https://www.maplesystems.com/product/modelname/mon1021aph MON1021APH. I'm going to need a keyboard and mouse for Time Zero, right? If I do, then maybe it is best to get a laptop computer instead of a NUC or industrial computer. I'd need to secure it somehow because I've had some situations where things on the helm station end up on the floor during heavy seas.

Its possible to go with a touch screen and not use a mouse or keyboard. Without a touch screen, you can use a mouse with a pop-up (on screen) keyboard it will work fine, just slower when you want to enter or route name or similar.

We have 2 time zero systems running on adjacent screens, and a single track-ball mouse that covers both screens, much like you would do on a dual-monitor desk workstation. I found a small keyboard that will work with any of up to 3 outputs with the push of a selector button.

You can certainly navigate with a laptop or ipad. Its personal preference since an integrated system is a little more expensive and more work to install. Up to you to know if you prefer hidden cables, secure PC mounting, large monitors etc. enough to justify the extra setup time and cost.

 

[stevemitchell]

I have 6 NUC's aboard, 3 of which run TimeZero or Coastal Explorer. I've installed probably (? losing track of installs through the years ?) over 100 of them on owners boats for similar setups. Combining them with Furuno devices for the basics (GPS, depth, radar) plus an MFD or two if you want a solid state solution elsewhere is the best setup I've found in a very long time, and has a ton of benefits that no other solution can touch right now.


For controls, I use wireless keyboards and trackballs from Logitech that allow switching multiple NUC's with a single click. That also allows you to re-broadcast the screen to other locations (salon, flybridge, berth) and still control the screens if so desired.


For displays, I've used a mix of Beetronics (cheap) monitors and more expensive panels from TruVu. Beetronics has literally any size you could imagine, with various finishes, all DC powered, and touch screen if desired. TruVu uses the same $$$$ panels that other marine manufacturers offer, and have a lot of benefits from the ruggedness and sunlight side, but you have to be ready for sticker shock.

 

[bkcorwin]

Steve, when the beetronics monitors are panel mounted it appears that the only way to control the monitor is the remote control? Is this true?

I have 6 NUC's aboard, 3 of which run TimeZero or Coastal Explorer. I've installed probably (? losing track of installs through the years ?) over 100 of them on owners boats for similar setups. Combining them with Furuno devices for the basics (GPS, depth, radar) plus an MFD or two if you want a solid state solution elsewhere is the best setup I've found in a very long time, and has a ton of benefits that no other solution can touch right now.


For controls, I use wireless keyboards and trackballs from Logitech that allow switching multiple NUC's with a single click. That also allows you to re-broadcast the screen to other locations (salon, flybridge, berth) and still control the screens if so desired.


For displays, I've used a mix of Beetronics (cheap) monitors and more expensive panels from TruVu. Beetronics has literally any size you could imagine, with various finishes, all DC powered, and touch screen if desired. TruVu uses the same $$$$ panels that other marine manufacturers offer, and have a lot of benefits from the ruggedness and sunlight side, but you have to be ready for sticker shock.