I’ve been doing it all wrong! (single engine handling)

[SteveK]

Peter I am willing to meet you halfway at 67.5*.
This reminds me, one time the dock person got anxiety when I stepped off the swim grid with stern line in hand and walked along as the boat coasted into the stall. That person stopped the boat short in panic and had to make it up by pulling it another 15 feet forward after I explained the plan.
The best laid plans.

 

[mncruiser]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies!

Can’t wait to get back to the boat and try some of them.

Also, totally agree on using what I’ve got. I’m taking advantage of some calm conditions and trying some new things. You can bet if things are at all sketchy, I’ll be on that thruster!

 

[mvweebles]

Peter I am willing to meet you halfway at 67.5*.
This reminds me, one time the dock person got anxiety when I stepped off the swim grid with stern line in hand and walked along as the boat coasted into the stall. That person stopped the boat short in panic and had to make it up by pulling it another 15 feet forward after I explained the plan.
The best laid plans.

Hey, whatever works for you. Your boat is a lot different than most I have driven (though I did spend a weekend giving lessons on a 4788 in Blaine WA - scary weekend!!!). You've been around the block so I'd guess you tried alternatives and like the 90-degree thing. Maybe someday I can learn from you.

In Mexico, I spent a month going between my marina and the boatyard a mile away each day. In the afternoon, Ramon would come with me as crew. His English was worse than my Spanish. Ramon is ex-Mexican Navy and knows boats and crewing. But without ability to discuss, it was borderline disaster. To reiterate, I'm a pretty decent helmsman, Ramon is a good crew. But we never got on the 'same page' so docking looked pretty bush-league.

My only point is I think it's helpful to have a Plan A that works 80% of the time. Adjust as necessary; hope for the best. Liberal use of fenders or thruster if needed (no live humans though).

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

Other thing to learn which is as major a step as the mechanics of boat handling is learning to dock without dockhands.

When using Peter’s technique (which we do) for a face dock we go as far past of where we want to end up as we can and lasso a cleat. Then you can back down off that cleat which will swing your stern in. Used this technique when my bow thruster failed with good success. Always try to head into the current. Then often you don’t need to do anything but wait as the current will bring you into the dock.

People forget boats can go backwards. The NT has a high bow. Not as bad as Nordhavns but sometimes bad enough to make picking up a mooring pendant hard to do. Takes a lot of the difficulty out if you pick it up amidships or even at the stern. Then just walk it forward. Sometimes you can do it going forward and don’t need to go backwards. Even easier if you have two aboard and headsets as you can use the engine (and thrusters) to make the evolution easier. Wife likes to use one of our lines through the pendant as her first move and use that for the process. We may continue to use that line if the pendant is slimy or switch if it’s clean.

Miss winches. In strong current or wind on the prior sailboat would loop a line (any line) around a cleat or pole and just winch in. Obviously preferred an amidship line. See some commercial craft do this but not recreational power. If I ever spec’d another power boat I’d put a couple of winches on it. Even just one somewhere aft would be a big help and you could use it for a stern anchor as well.

 

[rslifkin]

Other thing to learn which is as major a step as the mechanics of boat handling is learning to dock without dockhands.

When using Peter’s technique (which we do) for a face dock we go as far past of where we want to end up as we can and lasso a cleat. Then you can back down off that cleat which will swing your stern in. Used this technique when my bow thruster failed with good success. Always try to head into the current. Then often you don’t need to do anything but wait as the current will bring you into the dock.

People forget boats can go backwards. The NT has a high bow. Not as bad as Nordhavns but sometimes bad enough to make picking up a mooring pendant hard to do. Takes a lot of the difficulty out if you pick it up amidships or even at the stern. Then just walk it forward. Sometimes you can do it going forward and don’t need to go backwards. Even easier if you have two aboard and headsets as you can use the engine (and thrusters) to make the evolution easier. Wife likes to use one of our lines through the pendant as her first move and use that for the process. We may continue to use that line if the pendant is slimy or switch if it’s clean.

Miss winches. In strong current or wind on the prior sailboat would loop a line (any line) around a cleat or pole and just winch in. Obviously preferred an amidship line. See some commercial craft do this but not recreational power. If I ever spec’d another power boat I’d put a couple of winches on it. Even just one somewhere aft would be a big help and you could use it for a stern anchor as well.

There are a couple of good points in here. I've periodically wished for winches to pull in a dock line on a windy day. But generally it's manageable without them.

With or without dockhands, I typically plan my approach so that the stern will slide close enough to the dock for the admiral to calmly step off with a spring line in hand (it can always be handed off instead of there's someone competent to receive it). Once she's off, it doesn't matter if the stern drifts off a little, as I'll use the spring line and the dock-side engine to pin the boat against the dock once she's got it cleated. Then I can leave the helm and assist with getting the next few lines on before returning to shut down the engines.

Generally I've found that I can get the boat positioned for a safe step ashore more reliably than we can count on being able to lasso a cleat quickly enough on docks of varying height and cleat configuration.

 

[mvweebles]

......go as far past of where we want to end up as we can and lasso a cleat. Then you can back down off that cleat which will swing your stern in.....

This is a good idea but I've never tried it. One more exercise to add to the practice routine to see if it will work with a double-ended Willard.

Springlines are a popular topic on TF....for good reason. But I have to observe, results vary widely as they are highly dependent on the boat and conditions. Sure helps to have a giant fender-ball or two as well. I mentioned having a set "base" routine for ~80% of the dockings. The other 20% may require a fairly robust bag of tricks, some more reliable than others.

Guessing I will need to get better at backing into slips. On the US West Coast, bow-in is by far the norm. US East Coast (and many places between West and East), fixed fingers are short so backing in is highly preferable. I will need to change my "80% base" routine.....

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

Sure like to hear about fine points and tricks to make docking between poles and short fixed fingers easier. Also techniques for those monster fixed concrete commercial docks where you need to sneak in between big steel hulls with all kinds o stuff sticking out. Cleats maybe so high they’re difficult to reach and difficult to even see once you get close.

Still have troubles at times getting a line around the pilings (poles). Still have troubles judging how much space is really available when there’s machinery hanging off the stern of commercial craft. Advantage with power is you don’t need to worry about forestays or strouds.

 

[psneeld]

This is a good idea but I've never tried it. One more exercise to add to the practice routine to see if it will work with a double-ended Willard.

Springlines are a popular topic on TF....for good reason. But I have to observe, results vary widely as they are highly dependent on the boat and conditions. Sure helps to have a giant fender-ball or two as well. I mentioned having a set "base" routine for ~80% of the dockings. The other 20% may require a fairly robust bag of tricks, some more reliable than others.

Guessing I will need to get better at backing into slips. On the US West Coast, bow-in is by far the norm. US East Coast (and many places between West and East), fixed fingers are short so backing in is highly preferable. I will need to change my "80% base" routine.....

Peter

I found a lot of the short finger piers on the ACIW to be around 15 feet or slightly shorter...just long enough so I could get to my Starboard side railing gate. So it will depend on how far forward you first point of entry/exit is and trying to get that side to if available (I was pleasantly surprised it was almost always when I snowbirded.)

The worst seem to be in Elizabeth City (so after the first year I just used the sea wall) and one in Melbourne, Fl (which I just avoided as the dockmaster was reported as a jerk on the net enough I just passed).

I doubt I backed into a slip more than 5 times in my single, no thruster trawler in the 10 years of travel full time between NJ/FL. While I did anchor out quite a bit, due to my short travel days....there were plenty of marinas tsayed at along the way.

 

[Hippocampus]

Think it depends upon the boat, where shore power hook up is, height of the dock, and where is easiest to get on/off and load groceries and such. For us and from what I currently see the vast majority of cruising power docks stern first in slips along the east coast and ICW. Even most sail goes stern first when they can.
Find it’s also a big advantage when leaving as it’s usually easier to leave when you’re in stern first. Also many boats have a rear gate off the stern cockpit and a swim platform so aft first works out best.

 

[Portage_Bay]

OP you have started a thread with a lot of valuable input. I encourage you to continue to learn how to handle your boat without or with minimal use of the thruster. Don't think of using the thruster as cheating, it's a tool at your disposal. I am one to advocate using the thruster as a tool not a crutch. That is use it as the situation warrants rather than for every close quarters maneuver. You will become a better boat handler and gain an intimate knowledge of your boat's handling characeistics. Lowering stress and increasing enjoyment.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. With so many excellent ideas presented here I want to remind the less experienced people that each boat is different and every situation is different. Take the information presented here and use it as your starting point to learn or improve your boat handling. But don't be afraid to experiment and think outside the box as long as you are in a situation where that doesn't invite splintered fiberglass, bruised ego or more serious disaster. I'll give a couple of examples. Many years of running a single with no thruster, the only boat that I spent enough time handling that I have even the slightest right to claim expert status. The home berth was a side tie, port side to. The suggestion up thread to put out a line over and back on it swinging the stern in is a good one. It will work with most boats most of the time. However here's where thinking outside the box can help with some boats. The boat I'm speaking of when backing on that line would swing her bow in. I'd let that happen until I liked the angle then ease ahead with right rudder. She would swing parallel to the dock with a drift towards the dock. Put her into neutral and she's gently and gracefully lay to the dock. But, ONLY without complications from wind. If the wind were blowing off the dock it would be stern line first, left rudder and ease ahead. Going ahead with the stern line wanted to swing the stern in, left rudder wanted to swing the bow in. It worked a treat with a wind blowing off the dock. It worked so well with this boat because she had a big rudder and the stern cleat was well forward of the rudder post. Not saying either of these techniques would work with anyone else's boat, saying experiment, learn. Boat handling can be stressful or bring a helluva lot of satisfaction and fun. Let it be the latter.

A bit of advice that in my opinion applies to all boats all of the time. As you gain knowlege of how your boat handles with respect to wind and currents use that knowledge to your advantage. When approaching a close quarters maneuver look around you. Not just at the spot you are aiming for. Observe the surface of the water where you are, where you are going and a bit beyond to determine what currents you will deal with. Observe everything you can note in the air. The movement of vegetation leaves, flags and penants, wind vanes on masts. Note large trees, buildings etc that you will pass on the way in. This will tell you not only the wind direction where you crrently are but wind shifts to anticpate as you get to your target. This sort of observation all around you will lessen the number of surprises you will face.

It’s our third season with our Mainship 390, single Yanmar 300 with a bow thruster. I’m intent on not using the “cheating” bow thruster this season until I’m confident I can handle the boat without the thruster. Then I’ve earned the right to cheat!

 

[Hippocampus]

PB makes an excellent point. Docking even to the same spot is different every time. The current or wind is different. Boats around you are different. Even the lighting is different. For us at present it’s vey rare we dock in the same place twice so they’re all different. So have added a habit coming in. Stop or slow down and asses the situation. Pay particular attention of wind and current . Given it can be quite different at the slip and it’s approach or near the fuel dock take a pass as close as you can before coming in. Garner all the clues you can. Flags, how bushes and trees are behaving, whatever clues to wind. Same with current down to which lines are tight on docked boats if that’s available. Find seeing where I need to go before the attempt very helpful. So have no reluctance to take a pass by if you’re certain you have the information you need before the approach. Have no reluctance to ask for another slip assignment if I think it will make it easier. Find it helpful to have weather forecasts in the back of my mind when asking. Just as concerned about leaving as coming. Really like having a dock plan and/or a google earth picture as well. Then talk through with crew or the admiral what we intend to do, which line first and stuff like that. Docking should be silent except for responses to asking for distances. At least for me a quiet boat makes it easier to concentrate.

 

[psneeld]

I totally disagrre with a few comments made.. I wont even bother to argue past this post. I will just let others observe for themselves at marinas.

Sure some boats prefer backing in, especoally cockpit twins and cockpit boats in general.... some dont depending on boat handling. Utilities for cruisers I know dont really matter much as they expect the worst and carry the gear to adapt.

I feel backing a lot of single engine boats without thrusters ( where the stern is more easily controlled than the bow) out is a lot ieasier and sticking the pounty end into a narrrow slip is easier too. Especiall under bad conditions.

But thats just me, plus most of my trawler and sailing friends.

 

[SteveK]

A thought. Everyone here probably drives a car, suv or truck. In North America the steering wheel is on the left side. We have adapted to drive down the road keeping the vehicle between the lines. We can park close to the curb on the passenger side. Drive through the garage door opening. Pull up to a stop line.
What you are doing driving a car is being aware of your position in the car and the vehicle around you.
A boat in calm, no wind or current is the very same. You should be able to park that boat against the dock, into a slip by being aware where the boat is around you without any bumps.

You need to find those calm days to practice, practice, practice. If you cannot do it in calm conditions it becomes a crap shoot with wind and current.
You can practice with a mooring buoy, decide where you want the ball to be when the boat comes to a complete stop (ie: bow, stern, midship).
Situational awareness in close quarters. Doing it with wind and current will come easier.

 

[mvweebles]

Re: docking bow-in vs stern-in with short dock fingers. Really depends on the boat. Many pilothouse and sedan styles are really made for access from the rear. Some have full width saloons and no side decks or have no gates in the side rails. Not saying its impossible or even overly difficult, but it can be seriously compromised. Bringing a load of groceries can be a challenge.

Which is why I'm pretty sure I need to brush-up on my backing skills.

Peter.

 

[Hippocampus]

Yup. As said above currently most power cruisers back in when they can in my current travels even when the fingers are long. Not common to see anyone bow first. The outboards regardless of size come in bow first but cruisers over about >40’ are usually stern first. You make a good point Peter it’s more convenient.
Was intimidated at first but in some respects it’s easier. It also makes using dock carts easier. Kind of fun to sit in the cockpit with cheese and crackers and an adult beverage after a full day. People come by and chat. Sometimes they join you so you end up with new friends or an interesting story or two. Kinda grown to like stern first. Do have fairly opaque shades for the salon and back door so privacy not an issue.

 

[rslifkin]

Yup. As said above currently most power cruisers back in when they can in my current travels even when the fingers are long. Not common to see anyone bow first. Was intimidated at first but in some respects it’s easier. It also makes using dock carts easier. Kind of fun to sit in the cockpit with cheese and crackers and an adult beverage after a full day. People come by and chat. Sometimes they join you so you end up with new friends or an interesting story or two. Kinda grown to like stern first. Do have fairly opaque shades for the salon and back door so privacy not an issue.

I think the trend of sailboats going bow first, powerboats stern first into a slip is somewhat just a social tradition. Powerboaters seem to be more likely to want to hang out facing the dock when they're on the boat.

For us, if it's a slip rather than a side tie we decide based on a few factors. What's around us, what social activity might there be, how does the boat fit best in the slip, what side is the dock on (especially if we want shore power, as the ports are just aft of midship on the port side).

In our home slip we back in as the boat fits better that way. But there are other slips in our home marina where we'd definitely go in bow first, as there's an angled corner piece to the finger pier (so we'd be able to get the boat 4 - 6 feet further into the slip bow first and not stick out as far).

 

[psneeld]

Ft Pierce City marina in winter during cruising season.