MX long term resident boater?

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LeoKa

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Ironsides
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54' Bruce Roberts steel sailboat hull, coastal LRC, 220HP CAT 3306.
I was not sure where to post this, so I start it here.
I wish to hear from boaters, who have decided to move their boat to MX and live there, either seasonally, or permanently.
I know that it is possible to apply for residency there, even for long term. My interest is the pacific coast, around Baja area.
The obvious questions are; why did you choose a location in MX, which marina and why, how was the process settling down, were there challenges, communication issues, daily expenses for a boater, food, shopping, repairs, parts, weather, vehicle parking, fuel, pump out, commuting to the USA, taxes, food and water safety, social life, etc. This is a long list and not even complete.
I just want to hear about other’s experiences.

I plan to move my boat to MX next year and stay there for long term.
Thanks.
 
I live in La Paz. I chose La Paz because it represents what I used to love about America. I know that might sound silly but hear me out...

Here in La Paz...
The people all greet each other. Good morning, good afternoon. In stores people ask how they can help you. Drivers are polite. We have a main drag called the Malecón which is right along the ocean on one side with resturants on the other. People cruise in their cars here at night, and everybody is happy. La Paz is absolutely safe. I've never had a bit of trouble, and the police here do not permit things like druggies, and homeless folks to become a bother, especially in the Malecon area. You will see little kids on roller skates for example at 10 at night on the Malecon, and there are no problems.

I keep my boat in Marina De La Paz which is far and away the most cruiser friendly marina. We all know each other, we all stop by and chit chat. If you are a social person, you will find the other cruisers welcoming. If you are more of a introvert, folks will respect your space. Dock parties are frequent. For example we will sit on the dock and watch the sun set and it is a rare day we won't have a little group chatting.

The marina(s) are expensive here, but the marinas are also full. You will need to pre-plan. Set a specific date you are willing to start paying, and make a reservation. The marina has potable water at the slips and is the only marina I've been to in Mexico that offers that. They offer parking, and also have storage units for rent. Packages can ge sent to the marina in your name and you go up to the office to collect them.

Food is cheaper than in the US, maybe by a third, and resturants are less than half the US prices. You can shop just like in the US in huge grocery stores, or you can shop in the local markets and butchers.

Auto service is super cheap. For example a brake job on my 1 ton pickup cost $75 US including parts.

La Paz is home to a large group of expats. Some are cruisers, some are snowbirds, some full time. Not so many regular tourists, mostly longer term residents.

Our cruising grounds are world class. Beautiful beaches, anchorages of white sand, great fishing and snorkeling.

I love life in La Paz, and can't think of a better long term home base.
 

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We liked Ensenada a lot. Paid around $430/mo for a 40 foot slip and food/expenses were a bit more than half what we spent on the US. Access to US is good with a decent bus service to Tijuana and a short walk over the border. On the downside, Ensenada is a bit dusty and industrial feeling. And there isn't much cruising. There are quite a few liveaboards, at least in Cruiseport Marina where we were. There is a reasonable cruiser community as most folks stop in Ensenada to clear into Mexico. Marine repair services are affordable and of decent quality.

We spent a few weeks in La Paz, though the marina in town is full with gringos so we stayed in the anchorage. To us, La Paz felt much more gringo than Ensenada. There is an active liveaboard community, though their reputation as a cruiser community has faded as expats have pushed out transient cruisers. We found restaurants and such to be significantly more expensive than Ensenada, and also not quite up to the superb quality of Ensenada, but that's a personal evaluation. From what I understand, slip fees are on par with Southern California and quite expensive.....if you can get a slip. This is a decent place if Sea of Cortez is your idea of cruising.

Mazatlan, 200 miles east of Cabo, proved to be an absolute gem and a place we'd consider to live. Mazatlan Marina is a bit run down but well protected from hurricanes. Whereas La Paz felt quite gringo, Mazatlan felt more like we'd finally arrived in Mexico (though to be clear, there are a lot of Canadian and American tourists and snowbirds). The Mazatlan international airport is a $30 cab ride away and has many direct flights. Marina fees were around $1000/mo for us on a 6-week stay. There are plenty of nearby restaurants plus a cool bus that takes you to downtown Mazatlan for around $1 USD. Mazatlan is a very cosmopolitan city with higher end restaurants and such. The marina has a very active cruiser community and slips are easy to get. There is a boatyard next door that has an okay reputation. All marine services are available....barely. Also, there is excellent cruising from Mazatlan. We met several people who berth their boat there and come for 5-6 months a year and head south to Barra de Navidad, Banderas Bay, and other places.

Speaking of Barra de Navidad, this too might be of interest. It's a small marina and damn hot in the summer. But it's a really interesting part of Mexico. Rates are probably on par with La Paz, though I think summer rates are very low.

There are other places that other folks may be able to provide first hand knowledge. San Carlos up the Sea of Cortez had many cruisers. We also spent time in Ixtapa and San Blas near Banderas Bay. Also in Huatulco and Chiapas, but those are far down the coast and not as interesting as the middle region of Banderas Bay.

Best success in whatever you find

Peter
 
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Some things to consider if you are seriously considering the Baja, or Mexico for that matter.

It gets HOT here. Hot in that in September it is often over 40C. At night it does cool off though.
Ensenada on the other hand is almost perfect in the summer. You will need good AC in La Paz to survive on your boat.

We get hurricanes here. You need to be prepared for that. Absent owners are the most at risk by far.

To me the perfect mix is La Paz in the winter and Ensenada in the summer. Thats what we did last summer and loved it. But... The 900 mile baja bash is not to be taken lightly.

But... if you like fishing, you leave just as the fish start coming back with the warm water. This summer we are leaving the boat in La Paz to try the fishing, but next summer we already have plans to go north and explore California in the summer months.
 
How’s your tolerance to the Mañana factor, which doesn't mean tomorrow just not today. ;) When we needed services, we always planned on getting 2 out of 3; schedule, price or quality. Rarely did you get all 3. Check your medical insurance coverage. Medical care is much cheaper but…. I’ll save that for another thread. Do you speak Spanish?

I worked in Mexico in the 70s and 80s and later spent a combined 5 years cruising full time on the west coast between the Sea of Cortez and the mainland. We typically spent August through October in La Paz for the social life, AC and somewhat protection from hurricanes. I love Mexico but I’m not ready to live there full time. YMMV. Good luck on your decision.
 
I live in La Paz. I chose La Paz because it represents what I used to love about America. I know that might sound silly but hear me out...
.

I love life in La Paz, and can't think of a better long term home base.


Great info, thank you.
Did you obtain the residency?
 
We liked Ensenada a lot. Paid around $430/mo for a 40 foot slip and

Mazatlan, 200 miles east of Cabo, proved to be an absolute gem and a place we'd consider to live. Mazatlan Marina is a bit run down but well protected from hurricanes. Whereas La Paz felt quite gringo, Mazatlan felt more like we'd finally

Peter

I looked at the map and Mazatlan has several marinas. A small one even has a yacht club, but limited number slips and max 54’.
 
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It gets HOT here. Hot in that in September it is often over 40C. At night it does cool off
I know about hot sunny days in MX. Actually I am in Cancun right now. Nothing to do with boats, just dental stuff. On the pacific side, I’ve only visited Vallarta, but I’ve been to several towns in MX. Yes, AC is very useful there.

About fishing. I would love to, but I do not know much about it.
 
When we needed services, we always planned on getting 2 out of 3; schedule, price or quality. Rarely did you get all 3.

lol, oh yes, I know this well. Even now, at the hotel I am staying, the tv service is down and everyday I ask, they say soon, in few hours, tomorrow, etc. Not that it is important, it just this is how it is.
 
Great info, thank you.
Did you obtain the residency?
Yes I have my temporary residency, and in another year I can get my permenant residency.
There are several ways to get your residency once here that folks don't talk about but the local immigration lawyers know about.
 
My opinion is to give La Paz a try. See if you like it.
It's not like you are buying a house. Reserve a slip, give it a year and if you are not completely happy move on.

That's the great thing about boat life.
 
Hello Leoka,

Writing from LaPaz. We have not been here nearly as long as anyone else…

Mexican people are generally wonderful. It happens every day here!

What we have found - On the Baja Peninsula, boat goods are expensive. General labor (like polishing) is very reasonable and done with pride. Technical labor has varied from a good value (Baja Naval, Ensenada) to equavalent to US rates (La Paz). The Mexican work ethic is admirable. We have not observed great values in dining or groceries, save for Ensenada. Boat insurance here (US vessel/persons) is at the top of the range, and we get it very inexpensively for US/CAN. We just fueled for $6.90/gallon. Moorage is costly and rising. Power and water are usually charged separately, and power is higher than the US. The sun here is blistering and it is HOT HOT HOT. We obtained temporary residency so we would not be making “visa runs” at inopportune times (holiday airfares or tropical storms).

I recommend you come down for a sample WITHOUT your boat. Get a taste of the various flavors available, and mesh that with your cruising or dockside condo aspirations. I am confident you will arrive at the best decision for you.

Best Wishes
 
I looked at the map and Mazatlan has several marinas. A small one even has a yacht club, but limited number slips and max 54’.
Looking at the chart/map is a bit deceptive. The marinas are north of Mazatlan, not in the harbor area which is where the cruise ship area and commercial docks are. There are two marinas about a mile apart: El Cid and Marina Mazatlan (see attached screenshot). El Cid is part of a resort complex with a pool and restaurant. I knew a guy with a 75 foot sailboat there so there are slips bigger than 54 feet. Marina Mazatlan is more protected and a bit run down. It also better protected from surge. They have end ties that can manage up to around 100 feet I suppose.

One thing I forgot to mention is the music. It is often loud and plays forever. Pretty common throughout Mexico, certainly in any marina with local restaurants nearby.

Really depends on what you're looking for. As Kevin mentioned, weather in Ensenada is very moderate in the summer (and winter is decent too). It's the least expensive place we've found in Mexico and for our tastes, has the best food (also the cheapest we've found in Mexico). But there are no cruising destinations to speak of.

If you're into somewhat remote anchorages and such, La Paz is the gateway to Sea of Cortez and has dozens of anchorages within a few miles of the city. It is very gringo which is has its benefits. It is also very expensive. It's also dang hot in the summer - anyplace in Mexico south will be hot in the summer.

While Mazatlan has plenty of tourists and ex-pats, it had more of a Mexican feel to us. The city is quite large and has its own business districts and residential districts. It's quite popular with Mexicans for tourism and a place to live. It has more higher-end options to live and eat, and also has more lower-end options including decent street foods. Like La Paz, winter weather is excellent but damn hot in sunmer. Cruising options are decent - north to SoC or south towards Banderas Bay (Puerto Vallarta) there are a lot of small towns and beach anchorages.

Cost wise, La Paz was at the top of the heap. Ensenada was noticably less expensive than either La Paz or Mazatlan. Mazatlan was a bit less than La Paz but not by much. Mostly it was easier for us to find inexpensive options in Mazatlan than La Paz.

Mazatlan was noticably dirtier/trashier than either Ensenada or La Paz which was annoying. Had a more unkempt feel to it.

I'll add that boating in Mexico has more concierge service associated with it. We generally have our boat washed twice a month and the work is excellent. Our 36-foot boat is sitting on the hard in Chiapas (near Guatemala border, so waayyy south). Cost is around $300/no and we have a guy who checks her every few days plus washes her inside and out for around $85/mo. I see many Mexican boats have full time cleaning crew.

There's a lot to be said for taking the plunge into Mexico. I think the biggest barrier is feet of safety. Mazatlan is a few miles down from Culiacan in Sinaloa, famed home of El Chapo and drug cartel country. Made no difference to us but we sure get a lot of questions from folks back home about safety. We also have a condo in Playa del Carmen just south of where you are right now (Cancun) so have been fielding safety questions for years. We travel comfortably in Mexico but understand many Americans/Canadians are concerned. I think they are wrong, but perception is reality. If they are concerned, they should stay home. No sense spending vacation time in a place you're not comfortable being.

Peter



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Great info above that exactly matches our experience down here. By far the biggest plus for us is the Mexican people and culture. Very friendly and lots of smiles.

If you're thinking of living down here, you need to also think about medical care. While there is free healthcare as a resident, it tends to be overcrowded with long wait times. As a gringo, you'll likely be using the private doctors and hospitals. The care is very good and you can easily get an appointment with an English-speaking specialist. Your doctor will even give you their WhatsApp number so you can text questions!

However, it'll be all cash. For normal appointments and procedures, the rates are very good. For example, my wife and I recently did a treadmill test with a cardiologist here in La Paz and it was about $400 USD! The problem is what to do if you have anything more significant happen. Local insurance after the age of 65 if not available here so you either need a big rainy-day fund or plan on some kind of return trip to the US. Another example, we know of a guy who had a heart attack in Mazatlan and stayed in the private hospital for about 10 days... cost $30000 USD. A fraction of what it would cost in the US but you need the cash on hand.

We love it down here, just trying to give you a sense of some practical realities.
 
^^^^^ BTW Steve and his lovely wife are dock mates. His boat is maybe 5 slips down from us.

The good thing about medical care is that the medical facilities all take credit cards. So... it's not like you need a suitcase full of pesos, just a CC with a decent limit for emergencies.

LeoKa you have not mentioned a significant other. Are you solo? If so be careful the gals on the dock will conspire to find you a mate. 🙈 No gal likes to see a good guy unattached. Top secret... American male culture is a perfect match for Mexican female culture.
 
LeoKa you have not mentioned a significant other. Are you solo? If so be careful the gals on the dock will conspire to find you a mate. 🙈 No gal likes to see a good guy unattached. Top secret... American male culture is a perfect match for Mexican female culture.


Yes, medical is important. Particularly over 70+, although I am doing the same here in the USA since retirement only Medicare A.

As of significant other, I am solo. My ex was born in MX, so I know the challenges. No plans to tie the knots again. Solo is not the best, but less complicated. A friendship possible, pero nada mas…..
 
I do plan to go to Mazatlan for few days to scout out the neighborhood.
 
Peter

Perhaps I was looking at a non-available marina?

I don't know that exact area/marina, but here's the deal on the overall area. First, a bit of background.

Mexico has an agency "Fonatur" that is loosly in charge of tourist-type projects (See HERE for desription). Fonatur has a checkered track record of developing tourist areas. Cancun didn't exist before Fonatur put it on the map in the 70's. Sometime around then, Fonatur designated "Marina Mazatlan" as a development zone. Importantly, the zone is not just the marina but several square miles of residential, hotel, restaurants, condos, and commercial - the dashed purple line on the attached roughly describes the development zone - it is still growing fast with many condos and such going in.

Sounds sexy, right? Well, here's where a bit of Mexican culture helps. Two rules
1. Rather than develop 60% of the area 100% complete, it's common to develop 100% of the area 60% complete.
2. Funding a construction project has no bearing on funding the ongoing maintenance and upkeep. Consequently there is a lot of stuff that was really nice when it was built but has eroded significantly.

Why is this important? Well, my strong hunch is the Costa Bonita area you found online is indeed a private development within the Marina Mazatlan development zone. It looks nice in the pictures but I'd guess it doesn't match the photos. While I dont know it specifically, I've been through the area by boat getting in/out of Marina Mazatlan (the Marina, not the Zone).

Fonatur's Marina Mazatlan 'playbook' was repeated for several marinas including Ixtapa (near Zihuatenejo) and Bahias de Huatulco. All of the marinas have many closed store/restaurant spaces and are in pretty lousy shape overall because they have never been maintained. That said, we really enjoyed our stays at Fonatur-developed marinas and the surrounding areas......but you'd be disappointed if you expected an American style development.

Personally, if I was going to travel to Mazatlan for pleasure (and I definitely would - really liked the city), I'd stay someplace downtown near the Malecon (which is gorgeous). Mazatlan has a cool mercado (market) zone, and the historic zone has several hi-end restaurants. It's a very walkable city. From there, take the Green Bus north to Marina Mazatlan (the Marina) and be there at 4PM for the daily 'safety meeting' held on Dock 6. "Safety Meeting" is a chit-chat time where all are welcome. Usually lasts around an hour. BTW - i you stay on the Green Bus for 10-minutes mast the Marina, you dead-end at a beach zone popular with locals so its packed on the weekends.

BTW - I had an earache while in Mazatlan. I found an Ear/Nose/Throat doctor and saw him the next morning. No waiting. Was 800-pesos (around $45 at the time). I wish it were that easy to see a doctor back home.

Peter
 

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The Zoning info is new to me, but explains few things. When was in Playa for few days, the I stayed at a hotel, which was neglected. I could see that it was designer building and the base was valuable, but was not maintained by the management. Lot of little details would show it.
The beach is absolutely gorgeous there, but all you can see is drinking and hunting for prey by pretty ladies or merchants. Not my thing.
As of the music everywhere mentioned earlier, it is true and for me hard to digest. I do love music, different flavors, (except mariachis) but I enjoy it at home on a serious audio equipment. Having low quality boom boxes everywhere, many time next to each other, does bother me. While I was standing on the beach looking across the sea onto Cosumel island, I was wondering, if that was more peaceful over there?
 
We'll be in Playa in a few weeks and plan to head to Cozumel for a couple days. We haven't been there for a couple years but back then it was definitely more subdued. Beach clubs were more family oriented which while we have no kids, suits us fine. More day-clubs.

BTW - there's an El Cid property near Puerto Morales, and Puerto Aventuras south of of Playa del Carmen is also a nice area, albeit a bit of a walled garden for gringo types. Quite a few dive and charter fishing boats run out of there. I'm told there's a decent cruiser community in Isla Mujeres too.

At some point once Weebles gets to Florida, we'll plan a trip to Yucatan Peninsula, Belize, and down to Rio Dulce. The currents really whip along the peninsula so weather is a bit challenging, and there are not a ton of anchorages until you get to Belize, but we like the area a lot.
 
How do you guys manage the food sourcing? Do you go to farmers markets, big stores, do you cook, or eat out all the time?
 
Weebles

Why do you keep so much south?
 
Weebles

Why do you keep so much south?
We moved from San Francisco to Florida several years ago and only now getting around to bringing Weebles to Florida. So we're on a "lazy delivery. " Rainy season starts in the winter months so we decided to take a hiatus - originally thought we'd leave her in Costa Rica but our progress was slower than expected due to taking more time visiting places than originally planned (a good thing). Plus, Costa Rica is very expensive - close to $2k/month for our little 36 foot boat. So would have cost $12k-$15k which is just dumb money. We then considered leaving her in El Salvador which was the plan until we figured out the entrance was dangerous and decided against. Plan C was Chiapas and leaving her on the hard there. Frankly, that should have been Plan A - leaving her on the hard is better than in the water if possible.

Peter
 
How do you guys manage the food sourcing? Do you go to farmers markets, big stores, do you cook, or eat out all the time?
Although we've traveled a bunch in Mexico, we, like almost all newbie cruisers, over-provisioned. We tried not to but we did anyway. I think it's just a natural progression. We know people eat everywhere and of course have to buy food, but we packed too much.

Like many newbie cruisers, we too expected to anchor much more than we did, at least thus far. Marinas are affordable for such a small boat plus it's much, much easier to visit landside attractions. For example, we probably would have enjoyed La Paz a bit more had we been in the marina vs the anchorage. Some cruisers are on a really tight budget and can't afford marinas. We also met some cruisers who simply were not comfortable venturing into Mexico so being in a marina was not that important to them. We met a few cruisers with children and marinas were incredibly important for social reasons.

We are somewhat foodies and enjoy eating out, and like restaurants with a more local flair. Street tacos are especially enjoyable. We love shopping at public mercados with their myriad of vendors selling all sorts of stuff. I like smoothie type drinks a lot so frequently stop at the small stores selling licuados and jugos.

But I think you have to be honest with yourself about your comfort level with food outside the US. I'd say about a quarter of cruisers we've met wre aghast at mercados and street food vendors and quite squimish about what they perceive as unsanitary conditions. They strongly prefer to shop at a Walmart but will also shop at large Mexican grocery chains such as Soriana and Chedraui. When they eat out, it's usually at sit-down restaurants with a large gringo clientele that serve recognizable dishes like enchiladas (which do not seem to exist in Mexico except at gringo restaurants).

Middle half of cruisers adapt somewhat and will buy fruits and vegetables from small vendors and the mercados, but still do the bulk of their shopping at northern style stores. Their cooking adapts somewhat to mimic local dishes because that's what's available. As for eating out, they are bit more adventurous but street food stalls are a bridge too far unless a fellow cruiser has vouched for it.

About a quarter of the cruisers are some version of us who, for whatever reasons, accept the local food culture and just lean into it. We fit somewhere in the boundary of the middle half and the adventurous quarter - strongly prefer mercados, but have limits too. Really like street food but won't blindly walk up to any street cart and just order whatever they are serving. We are also pretty good cooks so can easily adapt to wherever ingredients we find. In fact, we are easily inspired by what we find - the mercado in Oaxaca must be seen to be believed.

Also, there is a percentage of cruisers who have constraints. Pets are a common constraint - finding pet food and restaurants that will allow them limits options. Dietary constraints such as vegetarianism or lactose or gluten intolerance would be very limiting. Or if you're on a really tight budget.

When we left Weebles in Chiapas, we hitched a ride on another boat that was headed to Costa Rica where we spent a month with a friend who lives there. While we enjoyed traveling in Costa Rica a lot, the food scene is a bit lame. They just don't have the cultural richness that Mexico has. Street food is extremely rare. The mercados are not nearly as diverse and interesting. We suspect we'll anchor a lot more and prepare our own meals.

I think you have to be honest with yourself about who you are, what your preferences are, and your relationship with food. If you've been a picky eater all your life you'll be a picky eater in Mexico and probably be frustrated as hell because so little of the food resembles what is offered in America. Even the taco is radically different. Like enchiladas, burritos don't really exist either. If you worry the water in Mexico will get you sick so avoid ice in drinks and anything green including cabbage on a taco, you will have limited options in Mexico. We can talk about whether they are rational fears, but in the end, chances that you will change at this age are slim. Better to accept who you are and just adapt it avoid it altogether.

In closing, I'd say bring the stuff that you are unlikely to find. For us that means high impact flavor ingredients such as spices, horseradish (bloody Marys), small tins of thai curry spices, parmagiano cheese, and a few things like that. We carry some sausage spice mixes so we can sort of make our own Italian sausage and breakfast sausage. When we return to Weebles in October, the only food stuff we're bringing are several bricks of vacuum packed Bustello coffee and a couple pounds of fettuccine pasta. Everything else we can source locally almost anywhere. When we finally get to Florida, I suspect we'll still have cupboards full of stuff we provisioned from San Diego. Too much....

Hope this helps.

Peter
 
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How do you guys manage the food sourcing? Do you go to farmers markets, big stores, do you cook, or eat out all the time?
For us it's a mix. I like the local fruit stands, and local stores, but like the convinence and variety of the large supermarket.

We also like to eat out, and a few nights a week you will find us probably somewhere along the Malicon having drinks and dinner.

Peter brings up a good point RE small resturants. Personally I have never even thought twice about eating from a street cart. I love nothing more than having a Taco at a small establishment.

Also my diet and body have changed. The spices and the level of spices are different here. The food here tore my stomache up for the first year or so.

Also the sun here is different. I came here White, and two and a half years later I am the same color as most Mexicans, what I'll call cruiser brown
 
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I'm in the "looks good, try it" group, especially fond of the street tacos and ubiquitous cups of spiced elote (corn to you gringos) from street vendors. ...but I always carry immmodium.
 
Thank you for sharing. It allows me to look into the options from a sailor's point of view.
I do have fairly good eating experience in MX, as I have been to several places and several times.
I think the boat lifestyle will limit the options, but not necessarily. I never got sick from street food, but my daughter did just recently. So, you never know.
I like cooking myself, so my main interest was how to purchase groceries and ingredients, fruits and veggies. On the meat and spice side, I am very selective, but do not go nuts.
 
What about banking, transfers, how do you pay your bills, do you have bank accounts in both countries, how do you pay taxes?
 
What about banking, transfers, how do you pay your bills, do you have bank accounts in both countries, how do you pay taxes?
We used St. Brendan’s Isle, a mail forwarding service. We had an PO Box and all our mail went to them . They would scan the outside of the envelope(s) and sent us an email. For a small additional fee they would open and scan anything that we needed to see the contents of. They would hold everything till we asked them to forward it to us. Bills, we paid on line. For cash, we used an ATM. We have a Schwab account and there is no charge for withdrawals. Taxes are like paying any other bill. In Mexico, there are enough gringos that go back and forth that they would carry snail mail back to the US. For a credit card, our primary while traveling, is from Capital One which has no foreign transaction fees.

 
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