What Would You Have Done?

[DougD]

Wonderful real time video of a 58 Hatt losing helm control while maneuvering in tight quarters. Fortunately everything moved very slowly including the wind. It's easy to second guess, but I don't think I would have gone below to try rebooting the Micro Commanders until I arrested the boats movement. A small Danforth off the stern or drop the bow anchor first. And 5 loud blasts!

 

[scott_free]

Anchor first thing then security call on 16. 5 blasts if you get close to other boat. There is always a sea tow or tow boat around busy areas which is one reason for security call. Turned out ok but their response was a bit delayed.

Scott

 

[SteveK]

Very good example of how things can go wrong quickly.
In hindsight, an anchor could have been lowered much sooner, captain then could have gone below and fixed the problem. But instead, panic sets in and regardless of whether we know what to do, we just do not react and do it.
Deer in the headlight.

 

[Gdavid]

I would like to think that I would have avoided the situation by fixing the controllers when they failed previously. A similar failure occurred in an earlier video.

 

[mvweebles]

What would I have done? Turned on my red-over-red ("the captain is dead") navigation lights, if course.

Kidding aside, I sure would like a pair of those mammoth fenders the mega yacht had.

Peter

EDIT - Psneeld - curious how the BoatUS guy gets paid here. No negotiation occured prior to his assistance. How is the work valued given it was an emergency? Thoughts?

 

[Comodave]

I would like to think that I would have avoided the situation by fixing the controllers when they failed previously. A similar failure occurred in an earlier video.

They said it had previously occurred 1,000 miles ago and they had thought it was fixed.

 

[Gdavid]

They said it had previously occurred 1,000 miles ago and they had thought it was fixed.

They seem like a nice enough couple, and I appreciate their transparency but I really don't agree with some of his plans and conclusions. I find the juxtaposition the YouTube channels Trying Not To Sink and InTooDeep really interesting. Both are cruising in older Hatteras motor yachts and document their coastal adventures.

One might assume the young man on InTooDeep, on a shoestring budget and single handing or running with very inexperienced crew, is more likely to run into trouble, but he is really mechanically inclined and seems to do pretty well. Trying Not To Sink, a middle age couple, presumably be greater financial resources and life experience seem to run into more misadventures. Perhaps it is just the way the stories are told but, I feel the two channels really convey the value in mechanical skills in this hobby/pursuit, as well as the energy of youth.

 

[Comodave]

The young guy on InTooDeep is incredible. I am constantly amazed how much work he gets done in a short time.

 

[SteveK]

What would I have done? Turned on my red-over-red ("the captain is dead") navigation lights, if course.

Kidding aside, I sure would like a pair of those mammoth fenders the mega yacht had.

Peter

EDIT - Psneeld - curious how the BoatUS guy gets paid here. No negotiation occured prior to his assistance. How is the work valued given it was an emergency? Thoughts?

as soon as tow boat got them away from superyacht, I heard $3000 insurance coverage for towing

 

[Derek]

I was in Titusville when this happened to them before. I was one of 4-5 boats on the wrong side of the situation. Nothing major for me, dinghy tube busted when I got bumped but worse for the others. My takeaway…. I have microcommanders on boat i e had a year. Damn things should be outlawed. I was thankful to hear from the captain about the seized cable and reboot that fixes it but agree with those that said they should not have left to the islands till that was fixed. All that said, I am trying hard not to armchair quarterback this as those damn shifters scare the hell outta me.

 

[Comodave]

As I saw the video I didn’t think they were in the islands when it originally broke. They said they thought it was fixed and had traveled 1,000 miles since then. So I can’t point blame at them.

 

[Derek]

As I saw the video I didn’t think they were in the islands when it originally broke. They said they thought it was fixed and had traveled 1,000 miles since then. So I can’t point blame at them.

You are correct. It happened stateside in Titusville. Would hate to experience myself. As an old IT guy we spent a lot of time defining root cause of any failure before proceeding with anything. Truly a tough situation for anyone.

 

[Simi 60]

I would never have had electronic controls at all.

 

[Comodave]

I have Glendinning synchronizers on mine. I thought that they had gone out because when I turned it on the light wouldn’t come on. Turned out it was the bulb being burned out. Easy fix.

 

[vertigopilot]

I would never have had electronic controls at all.

When an electronic propulsion control fails, it defaults back to to idle-neutral. When cable control fails, it's more likely in gear and staying there. I'd rather not be on the boat with the latter problem.

 

[CharlieO.]

Can't say what I would've done until it happens to me. But I was surprised they weren't on the horn signals and vhf rather than the waving of the arms.

 

[psneeld]

Can't say what I would've done until it happens to me. But I was surprised they weren't on the horn signals and vhf rather than the waving of the arms.

Or both as the person on the foredeck may or may not should have been dropping the anchor to drag and slow the boat just enough without a sudden swing that might cause a worse situation.

Did I hear a thruster in the background noise?

Also, I am not sure why they stopped after noticing the problem, still thought they had a problem.... then started moving pretty fast again?

 

[rslifkin]

When an electronic propulsion control fails, it defaults back to to idle-neutral. When cable control fails, it's more likely in gear and staying there. I'd rather not be on the boat with the latter problem.

That's what should happen, but if they're electronic controls with mechanical actuators, I wouldn't count on it. Plus, a stuck in gear with either type of controls is an easy fix. Shut down the affected engine and now it's back in neutral.

A cable can fail, but it's fairly rare without obvious symptoms of an issue to give plenty of warning. And assuming you have more than 1 person on board, after the shutdown you can disconnect the failed cable and either return the throttle to idle or shifter to neutral manually at the engine/trans. And then if you need that engine for docking, restart and operate from the ER if you can communicate to the person down there.

My biggest concern with electronic controls is that some of them seem to be a bit too fragile and too sensitive to input power. In concept, they're fine, but it seems like at least some of the implementations out there for recreational boats are just not adequate.

 

[Derek]

Or both as the person on the foredeck may or may not should have been dropping the anchor to drag and slow the boat just enough without a sudden swing that might cause a worse situation.

Did I hear a thruster in the background noise?

Also, I am not sure why they stopped after noticing the problem, still thought they had a problem.... then started moving pretty fast again?

No thruster on this boat.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If you've not experienced a control failure or propulsion failure in close quarters thinking through this situation and their response is a good thought exercise. It could prove to be valuable in future.

Thinking through their situation I would have first used the horn to get the attention of the yacht at risk and other boater's nearby, then the loud haiier to announce the problem. VHF would come last because the first consideration is the yacht they are drifting into. It is docked therefore they likely won't have the VHF on.

I will say having experienced control and propulsion failures in close quarters as deck crew and helms person each situation is different. Therefore the best possible response in each scenario is different.

The only actions that can be considered universally useful in any and all scenarios are to communicate the urgency, VHF, loud hailer and horn. And fenders, get the fenders out, as many as practical, as soon as possible.

 

[Cold Duck]

It's easy to question the response time but remember the "Miracle on the Hudson". When pilots used the simulator knowing the failure was coming and knowing what it was, they could land the plane back on an airport 50% of the time. But when you factor the time to recognize something is wrong, can't believe something is wrong, try to figure out what is wrong, then try to fix what's wrong, no one could land the plane successfully. Just have to add that "ah ****" delay time to the equation. Not justifying, just commenting.

 

[SteveK]

On review of the video.
This vessel appears to have two engines. At 750 in the video one engine is revved up in reverse which stops forward momentum. Then the boat accelerates forward.
One engine must be stuck in forward gear at this point.
They were able to get around 1st megayacht using this move.

 

[CharlieO.]

No thruster on this boat.

I thought in video he said he tried to use the thruster to get over to the wall?

 

[SteveK]

I thought in video he said he tried to use the thruster to get over to the wall?

engine thrust, as in reverse

 

[Comodave]

If you've not experienced a control failure or propulsion failure in close quarters thinking through this situation and their response is a good thought exercise. It could prove to be valuable in future.

Thinking through their situation I would have first used the horn to get the attention of the yacht at risk and other boater's nearby, then the loud haiier to announce the problem. VHF would come last because the first consideration is the yacht they are drifting into. It is docked therefore they likely won't have the VHF on.

I will say having experienced control and propulsion failures in close quarters as deck crew and helms person each situation is different. Therefore the best possible response in each scenario is different.

The only actions that can be considered universally useful in any and all scenarios are to communicate the urgency, VHF, loud hailer and horn. And fenders, get the fenders out, as many as practical, as soon as possible.

Yup. It takes some people longer to respond than others especially if they haven’t had any training.

 

[Comodave]

I thought in video he said he tried to use the thruster to get over to the wall?

Yes, he did say that he was using the thruster.

 

[chriscritchett]

Yet another reason to go painfully slow when around docks and other boats. This sh*t happens, and someday it may be you.

It’s one thing for us to sit around and armchair caption online while watching someone else suffer through this. Don’t forget to bring your crew into the discussion, too. Put these situations into the back of everyone’s minds, just in case.

The other thing that caught my eye…I wouldn’t be flying the cocktail flag while underway. Just saying.

 

[SteveK]

On review of the video.
This vessel appears to have two engines. At 750 in the video one engine is revved up in reverse which stops forward momentum. Then the boat accelerates forward.
One engine must be stuck in forward gear at this point.
They were able to get around 1st megayacht using this move.

At 850 he said tried using the thrust from the engine. I suspect starboard engine as the boat in reverse moved towards starboard. You can clearly see foraward movement haulted. They were moving faster than drifting, yet were able to halt forward momentum 2-3 time. Perhaps SB transmission then also failed.

NO THRUSTER MENTIONED!

 

[Simi 60]

When an electronic propulsion control fails, it defaults back to to idle-neutral. .

Yes, no, maybe

Seems in this example, when they went out they had her stuck in reverse at 2100rpm

https://www.yachtforums.com/threads/sportfish-silver-fox-accident-at-sailfish-marina.21018/

Other examples mentioned here as well
https://www.google.com/search?q=Mat...2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&bshm=rime/6

One of several examples on this forum

Several times we lost control of our engines .. shifts and throttles, apparently due to malfunction of our Mathers controls.

I have since learned that these issues are common and well known. Engines can suddenly, with no warning, shift gears or go to high throttle extreme. This happened at least five times. Once this caused me to lose control during landing and damage my boat and the adjacent boat

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/warning-safety-issues-mathers-controls-46773.html

When cable control fails, it's more likely in gear and staying there. I'd rather not be on the boat with the latter problem

Do cables just fail?
I would think you'd have stiff controls for quite a while before actual failure

 

[dannc]

Once upon a time I had a car engine with a cable for throttle control. One night I stopped at an intersection for a red light. Light turned green, I touched the gas pedal and the engine red lined on me! As I was doing through the WTF is going on I was able to get the car out of the intersection and turn off the engine. Turned it back on and it red lined again so off it went.

Eventually, sprayed some WD-40 on the cable and linkage and never had the problem again. Go figure. Twas a new car too.

Stuff happens.

Later,
Dan