Storm anchoring

[jclays]

Quick question
When anchoring out and a guickly approaching storm dictates that it is safer to stay anchored than running to a safe port. Do you guys idle an engine just incase you need to move and don’t want to risk the engine not starting?
Thanks.
Just compiling info for my knowledge.

 

[Comodave]

My engines start at the turn of the key. Do you have problems starting yours? If not then I would not worry about it.

 

[Lepke]

At times the ocean is safer than anchoring. Swells get bigger as they approach land starting at about 100 fathoms. They get much steeper and closer together.

If you're in a sheltered anchorage, great. But if it's open to swells and wind it might be safer at sea. What seems too stormy near the coast sometimes is ok in deep water.

 

[jclays]

Starts instantly

 

[Larry M]

No hard yes or no answer. Usually a quick judgement call based on the wind, holding, proximity to land and other boats. We always assumed the engine would start.

 

[twistedtree]

I watch and stand ready depending on how far the boat can drift/drag before getting in trouble. So the closer the stern is to land, the closer I would be watching things, sleeping in the pilot house, etc. Only in an extreme situation would I keep an engine running.

 

[rslifkin]

I watch and stand ready depending on how far the boat can drift/drag before getting in trouble. So the closer the stern is to land, the closer I would be watching things, sleeping in the pilot house, etc. Only in an extreme situation would I keep an engine running.

Seconded. If there's adequate time I might move to a better anchorage or a better spot in the current anchorage for the current wind direction. Otherwise I'd say put and keep watch during the stronger parts of the storm. I'd make sure the engines are ready to be started and go if needed, but I wouldn't generally have them running preemptively.

 

[Mac G]

Depends on the harbor, surrounding conditions and anticipated winds shift.
Let out a lot more scope if you have room.
If not, move somewhere else that will allow that.
Can also put out an additional anchor on offset angle, also with max scope.

 

[Mambo42]

No engine running, but I will be keeping watch. If necessary I can start the engines instantly, props will be turning within a second.
However, I always make sure to have more than enough chain out. I calculate how much chain I will need and so far that has always worked out. Will always have a snubber and a back up snubber, don't like surprises there.
I don't mind the wind, but if I can avoid the swell and surge I will do so by going into a protected anchorage.

 

[Insequent]

Back in July 2021 I was on my way to haulout down at GCCM and stopped over for the night at Horseshoe Bay, Peel Island. Its a south facing bay, well protected from N and NW, which were 15-20kn at the time. That bay was the best place to be in those conditions and the anchorage was pretty full, over 100 boats. Then just after nightfall a severe thunderstorm arrived from SW. So all the anchored boats needed to reset due to 90° change of wind direction. Not all managed to do it well. Heavy wind driven rain, I saw over 50kn on the WX200. I watched in my pilothouse as a 40 sailboat dragged past me, not missing by much.

Mental note that next time I see a storm like that on the horizon I'll let out a lot more chain (if room, given other anchored boats) so I can manoeuvre at least a little with engines without having to retrieve the snubber. But maybe I should remove the snubber before the storm hits. Engines start instantly so no need to start them in advance.

Facebook the day after was full of stories, lots of dragging. Included was a ~90ft powerboat that managed to wrap it's anchor chain around a prop whilst trying to move and ended up side-swiping some other anchored boats because it had no means of control and found itself amongst many other boats due to wind shift and possible scope of rodes. It was hauled out a day or so later at GCCM for prop and shaft repairs. Can't remember its name - its owners and /or skipper were quick to demand the local Facebook group mods remove all the posts about the drama, but hopefully they did help those who they smashed into.

T'storms are fairly common in summer, and usually SW, sometimes W or NW. So now I try to be the westernmost boat in that anchorage, if there is space there.

 

[GoneFarrell]

Storms at night are the worst.

Consider an anchor alarm that shows a histogram of boat motion on anchor.
Can help at night when shore references deteriorate. Maybe you're already doing this.

 

[BruceK]

We once faced an unexpected strong but brief westerly front while anchored off an sandy beach, with a risk of going onto the beach if the anchor dragged. We had a small 20ft sailboat tied to our stern, they moved off, I started the faithful Lehmans just in case. The anchor held, the front passed in 10 minutes. Made sense to me then, today I`d probably do likewise.

 

[High Wire]

If I see that a squall line is coming through , I’ll put out more chain 10:1 if possible beforehand and standby at the lower helm when it hits.

 

[Mac G]

and when determining scope remember to do the math correctly:
depth of water plus height of bow off water plus height until high tide plus additional height of anticiparted storm surge.

Prior poster suggested 10:1
For a storm I concur.
The more the better as long as there is room and you are not going to tangle up with other vessels.

And if using a second anchor on a nylon rode be sure to wrap good chafe protection on where that line passes through the bow chock.

Can set a second anchor by taking it out in your dinghy while someone else on the boat pays out the line.
Or if single-handed, coil the line well on deck so that it pays out; or take the whole rig with you and come back with the rode in your dinghy, paying out as you head back.
Just need to properly stretch that scope on the sea bottom to allow the anchor to set.

 

[twistedtree]

I suppose we should ask how much of a storm we are talking about? 20-30 kts is very different than 30-40kt, which is very different than 50+kts

 

[rslifkin]

I suppose we should ask how much of a storm we are talking about? 20-30 kts is very different than 30-40kt, which is very different than 50+kts

Good point. 20 - 30 kts isn't a storm, squall, or anything else concerning in my book. In those conditions in a decent anchorage, I'll keep an eye on things when the wind first picks up to confirm all is well and see what the conditions are actually turning out to be. And then if it's blowing in the 20s, I'm going to bed (assuming it's that time of day). And I know from experience that I sleep just fine in those conditions.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have read or been involved in various discussions about what causes you to drag. Some say sailing at anchor is important as the anchor load is shifted side to side allowing it to work free.
Some say repetitive shock loads for the same reason but in the vertical plane rather than horizontal.
Some say inadequate material of the substrate above the anchor. That varying by horizontal surface area of the flukes and depth of burying factored by adhesion of substrate to itself.
The claim of fame of all the nexgen anchors is the assumption that they bury more as load is applied in a manner that’s less effected by shaft angle to substrate surface. Some published material suggests there’s little gain in holding power after ~7:1. Multiple anecdotal reports of excellent holding in force 8 at 5:1.
I’ve been conflicted about this having been brought up with the mantra more scope is better. But some argue at too acute an angle (more scope) the nexgens will not bury further and no gain in holding occurs. Some even say an engine in gear actually increases the risk of dragging.
Line squalls and even T storms are a very different situation from a persistent cyclonic event. For the later you are usually forewarned and expect around three days of wind and seas. For the former you maybe caught unaware.
What to do? Multiple snubbers and long scope means it will take longer to retrieve and be able to move should you drag. How much scope is enough? If letting out during the event there’s a time with no snubbers. Sure you have the engine in gear to try to keep the rode slack as you let out chain but you may experience shock loads and high stress on the windlass before you reset snubbers.
I remain confused what to do. Especially as many anchorages get filled after your arrival and are only suitable in confined spaces due to depth concerns. In the absence of a defined best practice we routinely use two snubbers with easily removable chain hooks not knots at a minimum of 5:1 but no more than 7:1. However now commonly in the AICW we violate this policy when there’s a benign forecast and no room for scope.
But have no idea if this is best practice for day to day anchoring. For predicted Beaufort storm our behavior is different. Then seek to get out of the way, a protected berth or worst case a protected anchorage using at least 7:1. I’ve been in open sea in storm in a small boat. It’s something I’d like to avoid at all costs. That has been with four experienced sailors. Now being mom and pop almost all the time I would question if we could deal with it. Don’t see getting off the continental shelf as a viable option for our SD boat. Think possibly an option for a blue water boat of larger size but not us. A storm is a very different thing than the high gusts of 50-60k that you may see with a squall or T storm. So a different discussion. Would wonder if the title of this thread should be modified. Think it’s unusual you will be caught in a storm. (48k + sustained 28’+ waves). You likely will have 3-5 days warning.of such events.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Would wonder if the title of this thread should be modified.

I think the range of issues that arise from "Storm Anchor" is huge, requiring any thread to wander all over the place.

Here are my wanderings/wonderings. The more scope I let out, the more my boat horses around at anchor. It feels like I'm traveling in a figure 8. I've never spent much time watching the catenary angle to see when the most pull is on the anchor. Is it near the end of each swing, i.e., 40 degrees this way and 40 degrees that? Or is it closer to the middle of the swing, i.e., more intermittent downwind tugs? Could more scope increase the shock load more than the benefit of additional rode? Issues despite the anchor brand.

The second thing that comes to mind is an experience I had when putting out more scope in a sudden blow. In the middle of the night, of course. Raining, in only my undies and PFD. Nice quiet little harbor, but high tide and a sudden 40 knot wind made 3:1 insufficient. Either I had dragged or the little dock on by beam had moved 50 feet forward.

I have +100 feet of chain and it is convenient to just let that out and use the chain stopper. Convenient except in a situation where the pull on the chain is too much for the winch clutch or me to pull on the chain and unlock the stopper and add rode. At one point, when the boat horsed off to one side and started its return, the pressure let up enough to flip the stopper.

I couldn't hold on to the chain. The last of the chain paid out and anchor line started whizzing out as the boat fell off. It seemed to let up a bit and I grabbed the line, pulling it out of the spinning gypsy, both paying it out while taking a turn on the Sampson post. And watching my fingers. That got things under control.

I'm sure that there are ways to quickly handle chain rode when solo (maybe starting the engine), but my solution is to always get the chain out and cleat line to the Sampson Post.

 

[jclays]

Yes I do

 

[Greg QS]

I do not run home to port. Docking in 30 knts is problematic. Most can not do it in still conditions. Would not want to be in a storm moving in a marina with those boater. You know them. Just ride it out. I will stand watch at the helm.

I have many times in the heat of the storm started the engines for 4 reasons.

First ,My boat has several systems to start in order to operate the boat. Its not a simple engine start. Mainly the hydraulics for the ground tackle run off the engines and takes a few minutes to engage.

Second, in tight quarters boats can swing weird in storms, I have seen 2 boats collide on the hook because the storm made them swing into each other. By the time you realize what is going on is too late if you not running.

Third , for a sudden anchor pop/drag by me with people or shore close by. Also for reliving pressure on the hook in tight quarters if real bad conditions.

Fourth , most importantly to be at the ready to move my boat and my anchor RODE as others drift by. They always seem to.

I had one experience ( not storm related) with my last boat where a sail boat hooked my rode and slid up to the boat in a rip tide. Quite a mess. So its not only avoiding the other boat but also the gear they are dragging.

Silver lining. Got my boat painted for free!

 

[Capt Ray]

Lots of good answers to this one!

I'll add my thinking to the mix...

You wrote "... running to a safe port..."

Generally I like to be in a protected harbor, and I don't like "getting caught with my pants down", weather-wise.

These are the questions that I would ask before doing anything:

How far away is the "safe port"?
How fast is the storm approaching?
How big is the storm? Is it a fast passing cell or something that looks like it will be a more enduring storm? (i.e. what does it look like on WX Radar?)

How 'safe' is the 'safe port'? (There are many 'inlets' that are NOT easy or safe to get into in certain conditions, e.g. some on NJ Coast and many others like that south on ICW. There are other harbors easy to make in any conditions! ... like where I grew up in Maine & New England.)

Are the bottom conditions known in the safe port for holding at anchor?
(I agree with others that a dock landing in bad weather can be a problem, depending upon the dock and its shape and position to the weather. e.g. I would not want to try to back into my slip in a gale. I'd just anchor out in the harbor.)

I agree with others that if you don't have confidence in your engine starting, you gotta solve that problem before getting underway on a multi-day cruise.

Side story:
I have seen one of the Youtube "channels" (Capt Rick-Sophisticated Lady) riding out an actual hurricane in-harbor with the engine on (in gear intermittently) thru the worst of it to augment the doubled-up ground tackle's holding power... Admittedly most extreme conditions. In that situation, you also have to be prepared for other boats not holding, or suddenly breaking free upwind of you. You might have to "Steer Clear Of Them" as the saying goes.

Last but not least, you gotta have confidence in your ground tackle system. I see a lot of 30-50 ft boats with anchors half the size that they should be. They might "look nice" and polished. But they are only good for a lunch stop on a calm day.

 

[jleonard]

Quick question
When anchoring out and a guickly approaching storm dictates that it is safer to stay anchored than running to a safe port. Do you guys idle an engine just incase you need to move and don’t want to risk the engine not starting?
ge.

I never worried about my engine not starting.
If it had a problem or doubt, it would be tied to the dock until fixed.
That said, I like to be on the flybridge when a thunderstorm is approaching. I like to spark up the radar and watch it approaching. In my experience, if you get the wind before the rain, it's probably a strong storm and the wind will rotate me 90 degrees and come out of the NW. So as it approaches I'll check to make sure I have room to swing that way, and fire up the smokey Joe so I can jog forward to relieve pressure on the anchor if the wind is bad enough. I won't let out more rode because I'm probably already near 10:1 with all chain.
That methodology has kept me safe all the 30 years I was boating.
YMMV.

 

[fgarriso]

Don't try to outrun a storm!

Don't try to outrun a storm unless you at least at the mouth of safe harbor.

Instead point your bow into the head seas and put out your storm anchor.
A storm anchor is a big ass heavy CLAW anchor two to three times larger than you think you need with three to four hundred feet of chain out with a heavy-duty anchor bridal to take up the shock of the chain snapping with the waves. And then prepare the boat to ride out the storm.

If you are in deep water set out your sea anchor and prepare to ride out the storm.

 

[Hippocampus]

Live within my limited abilities and those of my current boat. I don’t carry (and never have carried) a separate storm anchor. I don’t have the ability to remove it from storage and rig it in deteriorating conditions in any kind of reasonable time. We are mom and pop. This is predicated on our avoiding true storm conditions on our current boat.

Captain Lee is absolutely right for a good blue water boat properly crewed. Classic and correct thinking in that setting. Four hundred feet of chain and a bigass storm anchor in my forepeak would depress the bow and ruin the gyradius. I don’t have two windlasses so can’t leave it rigged either. He’s right but not for mom and pop on a coastal boat. He’s on a strong 58’ boat. A lot of us are in the thirties or forties and with two grey haired crew. Be prudent and safe. Accept the limitations of a coastal SD boat. Probably the best you can do is head into the wave train with the engine on. Get the sea anchor ready but defer deployment until you have no choice. But the right choice is not be there in the first place.

I do carry a sea anchor and separate rode and anchor even though we are now a coastal boat. But the anchor is a fortress for loose mud and the secondary rode is line not chain except for the last 50’. The sea anchor is for failure of steering or engine and too deep to anchor and no timely tow. Remotely it would be used in anger in a storm. I’ve deployed sea anchors practicing and it’s truly hard to do. Nearly impossible to retrieve

My attitude is my day to day anchor and ground tackle system should be suitable for storm conditions. I want to push a button. Only be on the foredeck to rig snubbers and then retire to the safety of pilot house.

Shock loads pull out anchors and cleats. Have listened to people saying using the engine to decrease loading while moored or anchored may cause more troubles than they prevent. Conceptually have trouble with that thinking. But can conjecture you getting the chain slack only to jerk it if you don’t timely react to a big sea. Just don’t know best practice. So for present will leave the engine on and engage it asap with the first sign we’re dragging. Just hope it digs back in. Interested in other peoples thinking.

 

[psneeld]

Using the engine is only to keep the strain less, never off to the point of producing slack in the rode.

If you are using enough power to cause slack in you rode, it's operator error and yes can cause more issue than help.

The big boys are required to have their engines on when the Captain of the Port orders those vessels in their respective anchorages to engage when certain conditions are met. Yes I know large vessel anchoring is a different theory than us small guys, but the theory of powering up and reducing rode strain is exactly the same. Plus the issue of a manned bridge watch, and able to either pull the anchor or cut loose and be immediately underway, under control.

But yes, us little guys can/should expect out tackle to hold us in more severe conditions than the big ships. If we are worried about holding, nothing wrong with following their procedures.

 

[Hippocampus]

Thanks PS. Problem I have I can’t see the first few feet of the rode that’s above the water from either helm station. Can’t see it well even from the flybridge. So see it’s probably practical to run at low rpm to reduce strain somewhat but not beyond that. Even in serious weather intensity varies quite a bit. So it seems difficult to correctly time throttle adjustments if you can’t see what’s going on. Thoughts?

 

[psneeld]

In severe conditions, usually the time to be thinking using the engine, the rode should be bar tight unless you are swinging so wildly or pitching just as bad to cause some significant /slack/jerking. That has to be addressed with either weight or windage change both fore or aft that minimizes that amplitude and jerking. Hopefully more mild conditions show you what may help long before storm survival conditions.

If those issues are solved or never needed, then powering against the rode is like riding though a breaking inlet...constant vigilance to see just what amount of power is needed to keep from causing too much slack. If you can't see the rode, the jerks will be your guide. If you are not dragging, then modest power or even slight may be too much. Keep it low till something more obvious is happening then again it's really a guess by golly thing depending if it's just a slight, consistent drag or a complete break free.

Seeing the rode would be great, but it really is more feel and getting a feel for it in the lesser conditions that you are determining how to reduce swing or pitch is valuable because in the dark and stormy, not many can see their rode either.

 

[PierreR]

I have only resorted to engines once. That was on my way back north from Florida. Was anchored in Charleston and was not paying attention until the storm was practically on top of us. Grabbed things that would fly off and inside. Very strong gusts, watched my anchor alarm and determined the anchor was dragging. I did not have a lot of sea room before going aground on the oyster beds. The water started to shallow and the only think I could think of was start the engines and engage. Probably not more than a ten seconds before grounding. Showing 10', then 3' under the boat.
Right at dusk, in poor visibility. everything went dark as soon as the storm hit and I picked a light off the bow and just motored towards it. 3' then 10' and backed off to maintain 10'. Probably only 25' or so. Still very close to grounding. In 15 minutes the wind let up, we upped the anchor and reset with a lot more searoom. Second line came through stronger than the first and I restarted the engines and just maintained position. Tore the Bimini top but stayed put. Storms were gone and got some sleep. There was a risk of T storms but I was caught off guard.
Never grounded the whole trip but come very close.

 

[Hippocampus]

Yup,Tstorms are the bear. Actually even when on sailboats have felt more comfortable under power than anchored when coastal and in close quarters.

 

[Max1]

Storms at night are the worst.

Consider an anchor alarm that shows a histogram of boat motion on anchor.
Can help at night when shore references deteriorate. Maybe you're already doing this.

On my phone and on my tablet, I have the Garmin boating app. I use it in my berth on nights when I am concerned about rough weather. I use the pin feature , and put the pin on the spot where I've dropped the anchor, and the other is attached to the boat. That way as the boat moves , the distance from the anchor Remains the Same if the anchor holds. The GPS on the phone or tablet works fine in the berth, and at any time during the night I can flip open my tablet and check to see where or how much I've drifted. It's always a semicircle, indicating that I'm securely anchored. If the pin distance from the anchor is increasing, I know that I'm drifting.