Heater for Boat

[Seevee]

It was interesting reading the thread posted by Snapdragon III and his new heating system, which looks great. Mostly likely needed in his neighborhood.


Also shopping for a diesel (perhaps other fuel) heater but not quite so elaborate. Most of my needs will be just raising the temp perhaps 20d of so, and only in one or two areas. Just enough to take of the morning chill or add heat for those cloudy winter Florida days.



At times the temps will get down below 40, especially in the panhandle, but fairly rare to stay there long, so the bulk of heating would be in temps 45 to 55d just to warm up the helm area.



Not sure if a radiator or forced air is best... or perhaps just a simple propane heater... or even electric, however, doubt the electric would be adequate.


This is primarily for times when I don't want to run the generator... anchorages, quite docks, etc.



Thoughts?

 

[Max1]

My boat has 2 heaters.
One is an old SIG 100 diesel heater that runs on a gravity tank. Once fired up with a power assist fan, you turn off the fan and it runs by itself consuming no power, other than a large CPU fan near the top of the flue to circulate hot air around the room if desired.

The other heater is a German made Eberspacher airtronic. This is a fine little unit that als burns diesl but it needs steady power from your batteries while operating as it has a fuel pump and heater fan that are always in operation.

Great little unit, and now you can get a Chinese knock-off from Amazon for a lot less. Cant talk about the quality though.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07L8YQ11R...=GTgGw&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_0_img

 

[Seevee]

My boat has 2 heaters.
One is an old SIG 100 diesel heater that runs on a gravity tank.

The other heater is a German made Eberspacher airtronic. This is a fine little unit that als burns diesl but it needs steady power from your batteries while operating as it has a fuel pump and heater fan that are always in operation.

Great little unit, and now you can get a Chinese knock-off from Amazon for a lot less. Cant talk about the quality though.

Thx,
The Sig 100 looks good and worth looking into.... good reviews and reasonable.

Too many bad reviews on the Eberspacher... made for trucks, not boats. And, I'll pass on the Chinese knock-offs.


Thx for the info!

 

[Max1]

Thx,
The Sig 100 looks good and worth looking into.... good reviews and reasonable.

Too many bad reviews on the Eberspacher... made for trucks, not boats. And, I'll pass on the Chinese knock-offs.


Thx for the info!

FYI I was told last week that the Sig 100 is out of production. I called the manufacturer last week looking for a replacement Mica screen because the one that came with my boat had a few cracks in it. Fortunately for me, though the stove is out of production, some spare parts are still available, that screen I needed being one of them. That was when the sales lady mentioned they are no longer being made. I didn't think to ask about the SIG 120 and larger, but I think(?) those are still available.

 

[Max1]

Too many bad reviews on the Eberspacher... made for trucks, not boats. And, I'll pass on the Chinese knock-offs.


Thx for the info!

Funny.
Last weekend we went to the boat to work on it for the weekend and it was the first cold snap here in Canada. Cold and wet. We knew we would need heat on the boat, and since we acquired it in late summer, this was going to be the trial-by-fire to get the heaters working so we could work on the boat in some degree of comfort.

Tried to get the Eberspacher working first. It was kinda new after all. While it fired up, it looked like the exhaust port was plugged somewhere because it was gushing diesel smoke out of the fitting where it connected the heater to the exhaust line. We shut that down real quick. I didnt have the tools (or the time) to open the exhaust fitting to see what was wrong so I thought I would leave it and try the SIG.

Then we tried the SIG 100. It looked old and battered from the previous owner(s). After I cleaned up the combustion chamber and hooked up all the fittings and power to the assist fan, I read the manual and fired it up.
She fired on first try and in no time the heat was on! We ran the sucker all weekend and it seemed to use very little fuel. The boat was nice and toasty too. So Eberspacher 0, SIG100 1!!

 

[DavidM]

For your needs a simple Olympian Wave or Mr. Heater propane radiant heater should work fine. When we had a Mainship Pilot 34 in Connecticut, early in the season or late, we would fire up a 5,000 btu/hr Wave and in 30 minutes the inside had warmed at least 20 degrees. Your salon is much larger than ours so I would recommend the Wave 8, 8000 btu/hr.

Assuming you have a propane fired stove, you can tee it into that supply with a shutoff valve. Then connect with a hose long enough to place it on top of the galley or somewhere similar. Yes, ABYC recommends no inside connections other than the appliance, but..... So plumb it directly to the propane tank if you must.

David

 

[ksanders]

I am 100% against using any heater on a fully enclosed boat that does not vent overboard.

Yes people do it, but that does not make it right in my opinion. CO poisoning is a risk that should be considered as well as oxygen depletion.

If you want to heat your boat diesel heaters are the way to go. Pick your technology, and pick your brand.

For the OP's use a forced air model would be the least complicated and easiest to install option.

 

[AdmiralS]

Cannot speak highly enough of the Wallas heaters. Top notch sales and service from Scan Marine in Seattle makes it the perfect solution -

https://scanmarineusa.com/products/heaters/

 

[Doug]

We too are very happy with our Wallas Spartan model diesel heater. In particular it has a very low level of exhaust noise.
We have had excellent after sale support from both Wallas and the Canadian distributor Trotac Marine of Victoria, BC

 

[ksanders]

Another happy Wallace owner.

We have three on the boat, of three different vintages.

The oldest one had 27,000 hours on the meter when we last sent it in to the great folks at Scan marine to take a look at.

BTW my furnaces get turned on in October and off in late April. That's a LOT of hours!

 

[Bill V]

I installed a Propex HeatSource HS2800 10,000 BTU heater about 9 years ago and have never regretted it. Very thrifty on propane and extremely quiet operation. Thermostat controlled and mine is ducted into main cabin and V berth. It is exhausted externally and outside air is ducted into heater. Keeps cabin heated to 70 with no problem even on coldest winter days.

 

[C lectric]

FYI I was told last week that the Sig 100 is out of production. I called the manufacturer last week looking for a replacement Mica screen because the one that came with my boat had a few cracks in it. Fortunately for me, though the stove is out of production, some spare parts are still available, that screen I needed being one of them. That was when the sales lady mentioned they are no longer being made. I didn't think to ask about the SIG 120 and larger, but I think(?) those are still available.

To my recollection Dickinson purchased them. Although specific parts may not be available any longer since the Dickinsons also use mica for the viewing ports I would imagine they could make you one even when the Sig part is gone..

 

[mvweebles]

Seevee - careful here. You're getting mostly responses from PNW and Canada. As someone who lives in your neighborhood and has spent time on boats in many climates, my recommendations are

1. If you're okay with generator run and your A/C has heat as well as cool, tough to beat. Does a nice job on Florida climate.

2. The little Dickenson propane bulkhead heater works pretty well. Gives out modest 6kw Btu and lasts a while. Best is it only takes a small hole for stove pipe. The larger diesel bulkhead take a 4 inch hole in the deck.

3. But.....in your shoes, I'd likely install a Chinese knock-off forced air. They are pretty straightforward to install.

4. Wallas is legendary, but meant to be more of a constant hear source. Needed in PNW.

5. Move further south. No heater required.

Peter

 

[Max1]

5. Move further south. No heater required.

Peter

SSSHHhhh!!!!! DONT let my wife see this... she might get some ideas..

 

[koliver]

To my recollection Dickinson purchased them. Although specific parts may not be available any longer since the Dickinsons also use mica for the viewing ports I would imagine they could make you one even when the Sig part is gone..

My recollection is that SigMar was a breakaway of Dickinson staff, who, for several years, copied the Dickinson they had been making and did a very good job. Eventually they went home and are now Dickinson again.
I have a SigMar stove that is simply the Dickinson Pacific in slightly different clothing.

I also had an Espar (Eberspacher). It used a lot of DC power, needed warm fuel to start and run properly, cost more in maintenance than all 3 of my diesel engines, till I tore it out and gave it away. As Seevee and Max1 have learned; Dickinson 1, Espar 0

 

[Jarrow Lily]

My boat has 2 heaters.
One is an old SIG 100 diesel heater that runs on a gravity tank. Once fired up with a power assist fan, you turn off the fan and it runs by itself consuming no power, other than a large CPU fan near the top of the flue to circulate hot air around the room if desired.

The other heater is a German made Eberspacher airtronic. This is a fine little unit that als burns diesl but it needs steady power from your batteries while operating as it has a fuel pump and heater fan that are always in operation.

Great little unit, and now you can get a Chinese knock-off from Amazon for a lot less. Cant talk about the quality though.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07L8YQ11R...=GTgGw&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_0_img

You really have this hang up on your side of the pond re " Knock Off's "


The Erberspacher Patent has long expired, ditto the similar Webasto. Patents last twenty years, then the technology is freely available to all. So, a better description would be " Legal Copy " rather than " Knock Off "



Copies were first available from Russia and Turkey, both meant for road vehicles and at a fraction of the German price. Now Chinese ones are available and there are few complaints in Europe about their quality. a popular choice as a new Chinese unit is less than some spare parts for Erberspacher/Webasto units.



You can buy two Chinese ones for less than 50% of the cost of an Erberspacher, so all spares readily available on board should they be needed.......................

 

[mvweebles]

You really have this hang up on your side of the pond re " Knock Off's "


The Erberspacher Patent has long expired, ditto the similar Webasto. Patents last twenty years, then the technology is freely available to all. So, a better description would be " Legal Copy " rather than " Knock Off "

You incorrectly infer intellectual property infringement - no one stated they were not legal. Typically, Chinese knock-offs are low-quality reproductions of an established product. Some work okay (as the knock-off heaters seem to). Other's are a crap-shoot - hi-current circuit breakers vs Blue Sea.

Instead of the term "Chinese Knock-Off," would you prefer "Chinese crap?"

Peter

 

[cks]

I have installed the Espar and the Wallace diesel heaters in my last two sailboats.
Both worked very well. Based upon my experience, IMO the Wallace is far superior to the Espar.

The Espar is noisy. It sounds like a jet engine. The Wallace is whisper quiet. Also the Wallace flame is modulated by the thermostat which makes for a better heating system and less carbonization of the combustion chamber.

I like the Wallace heating so much that I just purchased another unit for my Grand Banks 42EU.

 

[ksanders]

I know this is a bit out of context for the OP's request but...

I am sitting on my boat right now, and it's 39F outside and raining. The boat is toasty warm and the humidity is 40%.

All three Wallace furnaces are on and have been on for some time, as in weeks.

You cannot hear them running, well maybe a very faint hum in the background, but they are really quiet.

One of the things that makes them different than a lot of furnaces is that once you turn them on, they do not turn off if the system is sized properly to your boat.

During the day when it gets warmer and if you get some sun warming they lower their output. When its colder they raise their output, but they again do not normally turn off, they just adjust the heat output.

Why is that good? Well, with a on/off thermostat based heating system (like a house) the thermostat calls for heat and the temperature starts to rise. Then the furnace turns off and the temperature starts to fall. This creates an about 4 degree movement in temperature. With a furnace that varies its output instead of going from full off to full on the temperature stays right where you want it.

Another reason a varying heat output furnace is better is reliability. When a diesel furnace turns on or off there is a period of incomplete combustion. This leads to "coke" or soot buildup which eventually causes the furnace to fail to start. Minimizing your starts and stops minimizes this buildup.

Another god thing about the Wallace furnace as opposed to the Espar is that the Wallace furnace is designed to run on #2 diesel fuel, which is what goes into a boat. The Espar furnace is designed for use in a truck, and as such is designed to burn winter grade diesel with it's lower jell point than #2 diesel. This creates reliability issues with the Espar units when installed in boats. They tend to soot up and require servicing of the combustion chamber components

So... When looking at a marine heater regardless of the brand i would recommend choosing a model with variable heat output that was actually designed to run in a marine environment, on marine #2 diesel fuel

 

[Bmarler]

i have three boats with espar heat. two have the d4 airtop forced air the other is a hydronic 10. it's true that they make some noise, but exhaust silencers are quite effective at reducing that. they are quite reliable, but you need to fire them up on a fairly regular basis. at least once every couple of months.
if you're a liveaboard, the forced air is not as good a choice, the blower fan has a lifespan of a few years at hard use. super easy to service though as compared to the older models. for occasional use it'll last for many years.
the hydronic is really great, i have 4 zones and heated towel racks in both heads. window defrosters in the pilot house too, love those.
i think the forced air ones take about 4-5 amps to run on high, but when they slow down when you reach temp setpoint it's more like 3-4.
forced air heats quickly too. if you put the thermostat close to your bunk you can turn it on while still under the covers and in ten minutes it's warm.
i love dickinson bulkhead heaters too, but they do take a free bulkhead and a fair amount of stove pipe to work properly.
never tried propane heaters, always thought they used fuel too quickly. new ones might be better?

 

[Bmarler]

I know this is a bit out of context for the OP's request but...

I am sitting on my boat right now, and it's 39F outside and raining. The boat is toasty warm and the humidity is 40%.

All three Wallace furnaces are on and have been on for some time, as in weeks.

You cannot hear them running, well maybe a very faint hum in the background, but they are really quiet.

One of the things that makes them different than a lot of furnaces is that once you turn them on, they do not turn off if the system is sized properly to your boat.

During the day when it gets warmer and if you get some sun warming they lower their output. When its colder they raise their output, but they again do not normally turn off, they just adjust the heat output.

Why is that good? Well, with a on/off thermostat based heating system (like a house) the thermostat calls for heat and the temperature starts to rise. Then the furnace turns off and the temperature starts to fall. This creates an about 4 degree movement in temperature. With a furnace that varies its output instead of going from full off to full on the temperature stays right where you want it.

Another reason a varying heat output furnace is better is reliability. When a diesel furnace turns on or off there is a period of incomplete combustion. This leads to "coke" or soot buildup which eventually causes the furnace to fail to start. Minimizing your starts and stops minimizes this buildup.

Another god thing about the Wallace furnace as opposed to the Espar is that the Wallace furnace is designed to run on #2 diesel fuel, which is what goes into a boat. The Espar furnace is designed for use in a truck, and as such is designed to burn winter grade diesel with it's lower jell point than #2 diesel. This creates reliability issues with the Espar units when installed in boats. They tend to soot up and require servicing of the combustion chamber components

So... When looking at a marine heater regardless of the brand i would recommend choosing a model with variable heat output that was actually designed to run in a marine environment, on marine #2 diesel fuel

the d4 espar heaters i have do have variable output. the older ones didn't. on low they're almost silent. i've been running them on #2 diesel for 20 years.
i haven't needed to de-coke the combustion chambers once.
the older espar design was not as good and needed frequent service.

it's not as cold here though...

 

[Pack Mule]

We are going to need to replace our cook stove/oven sometime. Is there a diesel or propane cook stove/oven made that can double as a cabin heat source for milder winters like we have in the south?

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Dickinson stoves have set the standard in that regard, and are still being made. They can also include a heat exchange coil to help heat your hot potable water loop. Check out the Pacific model in the link, though they make smaller and larger models.

 

[AdmiralS]

We are going to need to replace our cook stove/oven sometime. Is there a diesel or propane cook stove/oven made that can double as a cabin heat source for milder winters like we have in the south?

Wallas again would be my first choice for this use case -

https://scanmarineusa.com/products/stoves/

 

[Moonfish]

Another very happy Wallas Spartan owner here: https://youtu.be/qGZRqj028AA

Although they work great as a constant heat source as Kevin adroitly explained, they are also very effective for part-time use. As the guys at Scan Marine said, the average Wallas user puts about 200 hours a year on their units. Kevin and ourselves at 5,000 hours-plus per year are way outside the norm.

So for part-time heating in the FL panhandle, with the technological and materials advances the Spartan has, I would not hesitate in recommending the Wallas.

 

[ksanders]

Another very happy Wallas Spartan owner here: https://youtu.be/qGZRqj028AA

Although they work great as a constant heat source as Kevin adroitly explained, they are also very effective for part-time use. As the guys at Scan Marine said, the average Wallas user puts about 200 hours a year on their units. Kevin and ourselves at 5,000 hours-plus per year are way outside the norm.

So for part-time heating in the FL panhandle, with the technological and materials advances the Spartan has, I would not hesitate in recommending the Wallas.

Yep, Doug actually called me when he got one of my heaters on the bench that had 27,000 hours on it.

The failure mode was the combustion fan slowed down causing the burner to coke up and warp.

New burner, and combustion fan and that unit is running right now.

I have one of the viking units and love the iPhone app for that. I also like that if need be the folks at Scan Marine can look at the furnace in real time to check how it is running.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So I have heard most diesel heaters at the dock and on the hook. Some sound like a jet engine. I also understand when side tying to be careful and aware where the exhaust is pointing.

I have 2 reverse heating/cooling units on ASD. Yes the have lots drawbacks.

 

[catalinajack]

So I have heard most diesel heaters at the dock and on the hook. Some sound like a jet engine. I also understand when side tying to be careful and aware where the exhaust is pointing.

I have 2 reverse heating/cooling units on ASD. Yes the have lots drawbacks.

Except for the fact that reverse cycle heat requires 120VAC to run them, they do produce LOTS heat down to a water temp of 40 degrees. I just checked the output of one of my units. With the water temp at 60 degrees I am getting output of 54 degrees above input air temp. That will dropmsomewhat as the watwr temp decreases but last winter Imwas getting more than 35 degrees output with the water temp at 40 degrees, plenty of heat.

 

[tiltrider1]

There are many ways to head a boat. Heat pumps, Hydronic diesel, forced air diesel, resistance heat elements, forced air propane, alcohol Oven heaters, diesel stove top heaters, gravity feed diesel furnaces and even propane forced air heaters. Heck I've probably missed some options. Its hard to answer the question which is best with out knowing all the restrictions that are involved. Like, what fuel sources are already available, how much room is available, how much heat is needed and how often is it going to get used.

Lots of great heat sources have been mentioned but each one is not best for all applications. This is why I have 5 different heat options on just one boat.

 

[FF]

The Dickinson Pacific is very popular because it fits in the usual cut out for other type ranges.