travelling on the ocean whats considered safe

[SILENTKNIGHT]

I just travelled inside the ICW from Annapolis the last few days. It was rain fog, and a little wind but not unable to travel. I'm in e 2006 Mainship 34T, operating from lower helm. Currently im docked at Manasquan inlet ( NJ). And looking to travel to Long Island. But i hav never been in sea with this boat. So looking at NOAA i think no more than 3 foot seas would be safe to travel?, as you know its a slow boat 8-9 knts all the way 7 hrs. Tell me your thoughts..

 

[mvweebles]

Does indeed look like 3 foot seas on students bow, reducing somewhat through the afternoon This is definitely safe for the boat through prudence suggests a thorough check to make sure everything is secure. Given this would be a maiden voyage for you, I'd suggest spending the time to make sure plates, glassware, pots, and anything else that can make noise is padded - listening to dinner plates clank around is unnerving.

Tomorrow looks slightly better than today, but I wouldn't hesitate to poke my nose out and see what actual conditions are. If the small boat fishermen are headed out this morning, a decent sign it's nice out.

Have a good day and enjoy your run. I'm envious - sounds like a nice way to spend a day.

Good luck

Peter

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

i plan on leaving Saturday morning @6am? does this NOAA look safe for Saturday?
This is my maiden voyage . The ICW was fine i learned alot from Annapolis and thru the Delaware river into Cape May. IS ITHIS SAFE?
SAT
NW winds 10 to 15 kt, becoming N 5 to 10 kt in the
afternoon. Seas 3 to 4 ft.
Remember im heading across North east to longisland

 

[psneeld]

I wouldn't. 3-4 means the occasional 5-6.


Sea direction would be important too.

 

[ranger58sb]

i plan on leaving Saturday morning @6am? does this NOAA look safe for Saturday?
This is my maiden voyage . The ICW was fine i learned alot from Annapolis and thru the Delaware river into Cape May. IS ITHIS SAFE?
SAT
NW winds 10 to 15 kt, becoming N 5 to 10 kt in the
afternoon. Seas 3 to 4 ft.
Remember im heading across North east to longisland

Depends on wave period, too. 3-4' chop on the Chesapeake with short wave period can pretty much beat your teeth out. 3-4' waves on the ocean with a much longer wave period could be relatively pleasant.

Also, "safe" and "fun" can be too different things. Often, the boat will take more than you can... but that doesn't mean you should intentionally go out for a pounding, safe or not.

-Chris

 

[DavidM]

I had a MS 34T in California. Our cutoff forecast was for more than 4-5' seas for a trip from Long Beach to Catalina. Any bigger and we wouldn't go. 3-4' should be fine.

Oh I see that your Avatar is of a Pilot 34 not a 34T. Well I owned a Pilot 34 also when we moved back to the NE. It could handle a little more seas but I would stick to the 4-5' limit. I suspect that the reason it felt better in higher seas was you weren't up in the high fly bridge being rocked back and forth. It also was less affected by stern seas (narrower hull) but that doesn't seem likely for your trip.

David

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

Yes the avatar is the old pilot... We were fortunate enough to upgrade to 34 trawler... It will be a 6 hour trip at 8 knots.. So far the weather says 3 to 4' seas.. The wind from the Northwest I will be travelling North East

 

[psneeld]

"Because the "Significant Wave Height" is an average of the largest waves, you need to be aware that any individual wave can be smaller and some will be larger and some likely may be much larger."


https://www.offshoreblue.com/wx/wx-wave-heights.php




Plus, waves aren't just determined by current winds...and if they just switched, the waves are much steeper and more uncomfy/dangerous.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. S. I'm not familiar with the area but 3' to 4' seas on the quarter for 6 hours is NOT my idea of comfortable. As Mr. ps so correctly points out, there will be some 5' to 6', as well. You're going to get wet, at least!

 

[sunchaser]

I'd suggest waiting until Thursday PM to make your decision. Forecasts for wave height and winds beyond 72 hours get pretty iffy.

 

[PM]

If there is any real need to travel I think you will be OK. But why bother, are you in a time crunch?

pete

 

[Prospective]

Is it safe? Yes, I don't think there's anything about that forecast that makes your trip in your boat objectively unsafe.
Will it be fun? Really hard to tell. So much has to do with wave period, boat handling, and your own ability to put up with a rough ride. One persons awful ride could be another persons sporty adventure.

I think the best idea is to have a bailout plan. If it sucks, can you turn back or duck in another inlet. Or do you just wait for flat calm water and no wind? Bad rides are part of learning. Not to say you should head out imprudently or unprepared. There are obvious forecasts that make going out a bad idea. But sometimes you gotta stick your toe in. There isn't a boater out there who hasn't gone out and said... hmm maybe I should have stayed on the dock or even, hey! this isn't as bad as I thought.

 

[psneeld]

Safe is a funny word.


It is usually based on the "typical" not the unusual, extraordinary, or extreme.


We all have gotten through times that have been less than perfect and thought later..."I was lucky, cause if anything else had happened".


So yes, you can probably make it OK.


Lots here have...many have "some times".... after seeing hundreds or more of boaters that didn't make it unscathed... I just throw out that it's up to your risk management and you might only have the best info a day out or the morning you "stick your nose in it"


Keep an good eye out and go with your comfort level that day, not what someone posted today.


My experience with new boat owners and boat training in general is .....people who ask general questions versus very specific area or weather questions....should err to the safe side when the time comes to shove off.

 

[Mischief Managed]

I operate in the open Atlantic off the NH coast all the time. Predicted 3 footers are nothing to worry about in a 34 foot Mainship. Aboard our 44 foot Tollycraft, predicted 5 footers are our limit and that's purely for comfort, not safety. The boat handles them effortlessly, we just find 5 footers and up very unpleasant.



That said, if you don't like what predicted 3 footers feel like, you can always head in to a port.



Predicted 3-4 footers would not stop me, but Saturday is a long way out and that forecast will likely not remain unchanged. BAsed on the forecast, odds are good you'll be taking the waves on the nose, so that helps a lot. 3-4 foot beam seas or following seas suck...

 

[rslifkin]

Predicted 3-4 footers would not stop me, but Saturday is a long way out and that forecast will likely not remain unchanged. BAsed on the forecast, odds are good you'll be taking the waves on the nose, so that helps a lot. 3-4 foot beam seas or following seas suck...

I'd mostly agree with that assessment, and from what I know of the Mainship 34 hull, I'd agree that on the nose is the best case in seas that size.



But it does really depend on the boat. Most boats will be at least a little unpleasant with 3 - 4 on the beam unless stabilized. But head sea vs following sea varies more. If it's not steep chop, I'm fine with 3 - 4 on the nose in my boat, although it'll often be a wet ride on plane (or a lot of pitching at low speed), especially if we're at any angle to the wind. 3 - 4 foot following seas are pretty comfy as long as we're not going slow to stretch our fuel range. Either running with them or power up and run over them and it's a pretty nice ride.

 

[twistedtree]

I agree you need to wait until the forecast is 24-48 hours out. Beyond that it's too subject to change.


And when it comes time to make the call, I would look for 3' or less in the forecast, and no head-wind component. Don't make your first open water cruise a nighmare. Nothing will spoil you faster on boating. Make it enjoyable.


As I recall, from Manisquam to NY there are no real bailout points?

 

[SteveK]

TT your reply was specific and on target.
I was wondering what an ideal, average, normal, sea state would be like.
For the first time traverse in any area, those with experience should share the conditions considered comfortable.
The boat can handle more than the crew.

 

[mvweebles]

As of right now, Sunday is a substantial improvement. A low pressure moves through on Saturday giving seas of 3-4 feet @ 7 seconds from east with winds 15 from NE so expect some decent wind chop. Not unsafe but uncomfortable.

Sunday, after low pressure moves offshore, winds are forecast to lay down, seas 2-3 @ 9 seconds.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

If the winds were NW for a couple day prior and laying down I would go too.


But with 5-6 building on Thursday and then swinging to the W on Sat night....it might be uncomfy to say the least.


So far the only great advice is take another look on Thursday (later in the week) and start thinking more seriously then with what the seas actually are and what they are forecast at departure time.

EDIT: after looking at other weather info...seems to be some disagreement in exactly what may happen Fri and Sat. Mostly Friday which will have a lot to do with Saturday.


Usually when I see that much disagreement...all I can do is wait and see. If it's flip a coin out this far, I err to the safe and decide on plan B....if no big deal.... I wait and see and make that decision Fri night or Saturday depending on the new forecast and trend. I think it' less than 30 some miles out of Jersey waters into at least some shelter farther North....

 

[jhall767]

It's been mentioned but not emphasized. Period is everything. I've been in 6 foot swells at 12 seconds and it was like riding comfortably in a car over a series of hills.

3 foot chop with wind on the nose - miserable.

Inlets are all about wind direction and current. Manasquan inlet is notorious in the wrong conditions.

I don't think you mentioned where you are headed on Long Island. Where are you going in? Also want to arrive at a good time. Worst time is usually max ebb.

I would consider going up to NY and then into long island sound.

 

[rgano]

Crossing the Big Bend in my heavier GB42, I always looked for 1-2 foot seas, and sometime in the 19-hour run it always got worse. The 34T being lighter will make for a rough ride (not necessarily unsafe unless you personally are adversely affected). If you are unwell and thus unaware in choppy seas, then it is prima facia unsafe. With winds tending to come off the continent toward sea, why not make a longer run hugging the shore? Seas generated in a short fetch coming offshore will have shorter periods for a good way out to sea.

 

[SoWhat]

As of right now, Sunday is a substantial improvement. A low pressure moves through on Saturday giving seas of 3-4 feet @ 7 seconds from east with winds 15 from NE so expect some decent wind chop. Not unsafe but uncomfortable.

Sunday, after low pressure moves offshore, winds are forecast to lay down, seas 2-3 @ 9 seconds.

Peter

Agree. Seas appear to flatten out Sat might. Thu and Fri are no-go's. High winds with 4-6. Not suitable for inexperienced captain in 34' boat. Wed might be doable but look like it will kick up in afternoon. General rule of thumb is period twice the height is doable at 3-4 but have some meclizine nearby if you're running slow.

Long Island is long with few safe harbors on ocean side. If you're heading direct to Montauk I would wait. Alternative is to head for Sandy Hook wed and get closer to LI. Should be a quick trip and give some offshore experience.

Don't forget to leave inlet on a slack tide if possible. There is a reason they have a CG station there.

 

[MYTraveler]

As others have said, period makes all the difference in the world, and rather than a focus on safety, if time and circumstances permit, you might want to focus on not being miserable in rough, but safe, seas.

I know you are making a go/ no-go decision, but your question about the adequacy of conditions is, IMO, highly personal and subjective. Ideally, you would plan to venture out in forecast 3' seas, see how you like it heading into the seas, with the seas following, etc., and take notes. Then, when you get back in find a bouy report of the actual conditions you encountered (including wind and possibly current), as there will often be a big difference between forecast and actual. After just a few trips, you will have some good data from which to conclude whether forecast conditions are suitable.

 

[skyhawk]

just skimming the thread.....based on all the opinions I see it seems pretty much a consensus that it's not deadly conditions....
so
If things are leaning towards an uncertain maybe....and if you aren't in any sort of hurry...
why not plan on poking out for a little 30 minute to an hour cruise?...and just PLAN on ducking back in and heading on the trip at a later date. Plan A
then
IF it seems good while you're out there....steer the course. as plan B

I say this because you're never going to learn what those conditions are like in the boat if you stay in and just go at a later date with a better forecast.

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

agreed, the forecast seems fine at 3-4 foot seas for saturday & 10-15 knt winds coming from the northwest. It seems running closer to the shore the seas are less around 1 footers. My destination in Babylon ( Fireisland inlet )

 

[Hippocampus]

SK like your thinking in the last post. Although folks have been talking about discomfort from being on a beat for this transit my concern is that there’s NO east to the wind and seas. That allows ditch points along the NJ shore if you have troubles. With East it’s usually safer to not attempt those ports and just do cape may to ny harbor ports as a straight run. Of course no fetch or lee shore is great as well. You should have cellphone coverage if you stay close and definitely vhf.

So your look at Saturday seems good at this point. Of course look at the girbs, NOAA and other sources.

I generally plan for bailouts at 1/2 and 2/3 hull speed. Think if something goes wrong I lose time sorting myself out and depending on seas may slow down or not follow the rhumb line to improve the ride. So choose very conservative bailout points.

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

My destination is northeast to Babylon (Fire Island Inlet ) . i plotted it to be 57NM...i will run close to shore line from Manasquan inlet to Sandy Hook then north east to fir island inlet

 

[Hippocampus]

Have a great time. Sounds like you’re a good captain. Just one last point. Always found I felt much less stressed when coastal knowing I had good ground tackle. With adequate scope and a good anchor knew worse case could just drop the hook and fix it, wait it out or call for help. People spend a small fortune on safety gear. Have spent a lot of time in small boats where good ground tackle was the most important thing as regards safety.

 

[cks]

According to the “Windy”App. ( a must have!) I would advise you to wait until Sunday. I’ve gone north from Manasquan dozens of times. A north west/north wind can get very ugly. Is it safe? It’s a question that is difficult to answer. Can the boat take it? The answer is, probably. It’s not about the wave height. It’s all about the period of the waves. I can tell you from experience that you will get larger waves hitting you at all points of time probably closer to 5 to 6 feet

Also, there’s potential for rain in the morning.

The boat is new to you. Yes you boarded up the ICW. I’ve done this trip as well. Do you know all the systems intimately? Are you familiar that all fittings, bolts, hose clamps, hoses, etc. are in all excellent shape?
When things are banging nothing vibrates tight. Ask yourself this question “what could go wrong?, What could go wrong?, What could go wrong,?......

Sunday’s forecast is for wind to be from the south at 3 to 4 kn. The sea state will be calmer. It will be a much more delightful run up.

 

[Small Dinghy]

As far as the unexpected, if you were to end up having a mechanical issue etc., Long Island is full of Coast guard, Sea Tow, and various help should it be needed. It's not like you're crossing the Pacific. That said, prudence and caution are always my go to.