Generator question

I also have a GB36 with no generator ... wouldn't have one if it was given to me. Battery bank is an 8D for starting & 4 6V golf cart batteries. I converted the fridge to 12 volt (Frigoboat w/Danfoss compressor), all the lights to LED (incl spreader lights & anchor light), the range is propane, and there is a good inverter. I also installed a 140A alternator when the original one quit. I am able to anchor out 3-4 days w/no worries about battery power. The 6V Trojans have 10 seasons on them and although it's probably time to replace them they still hold a good charge @ about 12.4 volts.

I like the peace & quiet without a generator and I also like the simplicity of the systems on board. As far as making coffee, a french press works like a charm.

As with most things boating, personal preference is the rule! BTW single engine no thrusters too ; <)

"The electrical, fuel, exhaust, intake systems may still be there (at least partially) which will simplify your installation of a diesel generator. See if the panel has genset controls and switches, then check out the engine room. You can sometimes find running or rebuilt takeout's if you don't want to buy new. "

Good advice! All I can add is when I repowered a number of years ago I pulled the genny out to get it out of the way and just never got around to putting it back in. It was a small raw water cooled unit that had seen its day so I just wasn't motivated. Before this season I purchased a used one, nice unit though, and installed it. I had to do it all; fuel, exhaust, electrical, raw water thru hull but the space was there from the factory one which did help a lot.

I got by for many years cruising without one, so it can be done. But, having a real generator I can now testify is pure boating bliss. I only run it about 45 min in the morning and 45 min in the evening and that charges the batteries right up, makes hot water and removed the constantly fretting about volts and amps every time people had lots of lights on.

I came close to installing some solar panels at one point but am very happy I went the generator route.

Any how - my advice would be to think about what kind of boating you do. I have lots of friends who don't go any where without a slip reservation. If your in that line then I wouldn't sweat it to much. If you prefer moorings and anchoring then you will be a much happier boater with one.

When I would cruise PG (pre-generator) I could go about 4 days before the electrical stress would really set in. I would run my engine which would help but I did not like doing that, its not good for it. I never considered the Honda route and never would, but thats a debate almost as contentious as "twins or single" so lets not go there. (although I have heard the Grand Banks society will expel you from their ranks for deploying said unit on one of there own so thats something to consider as well)

So, if your thinking about cruising in a Grand Banks that doesn't have a generator, and you prefer moorings or anchoring over slips, then you have a power dilemma to think about.

Have you considered a fuel cell?
We put an EFOY 210 and two Firefly Oasis house batteries into our previous boat (Bayliner 3488) and never had to worry about power consumption. Minimal space required, easy installation, completely silent, totally safe, zero emissions, no maintenance, and it works at night and on dark days. Acquisition and installation may be competitive with a generator but probably more expensive than solar. Ongoing cost of fuel "cartridges" (methanol in a special container) might be an issue.

I purchased a 1980 Grand Banks 36 last year and absolutely love it. Like you, it had no generator, but the engine room and the AC panel is set up for one. I have a Cummins-Onin 7.5k on order and will be installing it this winter. It’s going to take some work getting it into the engine room but it can be done. From years of boating i find that they are a great piece of mind when you’re on the hook for days in a quite cove somewhere. No worries about sun, wind, rain, shadowing etc. We’re planning on doing the loop in a couple years and I’ll be expanding my AC load in preparation, which wouldn’t be possible with out a generator. It’s an expense that I planned on at the time of purchase. To me the most important thing is finding the right boat which may or may not have everything on your wish list.

I thought briefly about a Honda 2000 but quickly axed the idea. I wont no part of CO problems and storing gasoline for its use.

If you are serious you need both solar AND genset.
Our 2.2Kw of solar aint doing much today with all this cloud around and we arent about to motor for several hours to charge up the batteries and run the hot water system.

Great points Simi, and having to run the main engine in neutral for a couple of hours to charge the batteries, especially if you have a "stock alternator" setup, will not give good results, and it is hard on the engine if done often.

My microwave doesn't like my Xantrex inverter.
We start the generator before we start the boat engine.
I agree with solar as a 'backup. I hate tiptoeing around electric usage.
Might consider a remote start Champion inverter generator instead of a Honda - I have both and like the Champion better.

Bayview has a point.

IF the boat you are looking at isn't equipped the way you need then look for a different boat.

You can never buy a less expensive boat and upgrade it for the cost of a boat that is already setup the way you need it. And, I know that statement will start some discussions. But, that is my opinion with 70 years experience.

Nope, A working generator was on of the requirements when I was looking.

Nexgen rebuild

Lollygag1 said:

I am in a similar predicament. My nextgen is in need of a rebuild which would entail shipping it back to the factory (per the generator tech who looked at it).

We were without all season and found we only need it run coffee maker and microwave. Given our schedule we only can get out for 3-5 days max and have a large battery bank. So rather than go thru expense and hassle of pulling the gen I am considering a small Honda for next year. I may look at the rebuild next off season but this year have other priorities.

If I was able to do longer cruises or live aboard I would go the rebuild route

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FYI,


I also had a 34 Mainship Pilot (2005) with a Nexgen. It needed a new "backend," which was the part that generated the electricity rather than the diesel engine part (you can tell I really know a lot about this, right)!


Anyway, we got a whole new "backend" from the factory and the tech installed it. The whole thing was about $4,000, way less than a new marine generator installed.

I read every post on this thread, and no one mentioned this: Without a gen set, on day 2 and beyond you will not have hot water for bathing and dishes without running main engine under very light load for many hours (very bad for engine). I have a 3.5 KW Next Gen that I installed after we bought our 2007 Mariner 27. (Helmsman 38). Even with the 165 amp Belmar installed by PO, running main engine after 1st day on hook took excessive time to recharge batteries to 85%. The Next Gen is small, light enough for two people to carry and install without mechanical assistance, and is extremely economical and reliable. It provides enough juice to replicate 30 amp Shore power, recharge my batteries and heat full 120v 6 gal hot water tank, running about 1 hour per day. Solar/batteries will not provide hot water. I bought my gen online direct from Next-gen and in 2015 I recall it was about $6K. My boat was pre-wired and plumbed so installation was pretty simple. [emoji4][emoji4]

I have a small Honda for morning usage. It stays on the aft deck. I would not attempt to use it as a genset. Capacity is too limited. I have learned to live with limitations. No A/C. Fridge off at night. LED bulbs only. If I had the room I would install a small Northern Lights or NextGen genset. Guessing $5-6K all in for DIY.

Would note there’s a huge difference between a low rpm genset and a high rpm genset. Had a lombardini. Although in the kohler family it’s a piece of junk. Every cruiser I know who has a high rpm genset hates it and wishes they blew the extra bucks for a low rpm one. Ultimately the high rpm ones crap out and you end up spending more money. Of the high rpm one the phasor seems to hold up the best from what I hear. Admittedly these are people living on their boats and usually doing their own maintenance. Surprisely the low rpm ones are quieter, easier to maintain, have a longer service life and are much less likely to break.
We had solar, wind and a northern lights plus oversized alternators. You can’t have too much electricity or too much redundancy. At one time or another it was wonderful to have each of those sources. Unless you’re a weekend warrior would put in the best batteries you can afford -lifelines, fireflies or Li. At least two panels and a low rpm genset. Then you’re set for time off the grid and needn’t worry if you’re not on the boat for awhile.

Will add a correction. You should do an energy budget. You don’t want too much output in your genset. If it’s output is too high it’s will only run at low load which is bad for a Diesel engine. We’d make water, vacuum, run the AC and add whatever load we could on the genset periodically to make sure it ran at or above 80% max load for awhile.

Wild Goose Loose said:

I am looking at purchasing a 1988 Grand Banks 36. The boat has no generator and the Broker has advised me that it's not uncommon for this boat especially with a propane stove to go without a generator and still do the same type of cruising generator powered boats do. He says that the single engine will charge the batteries while running during the day and that with only a freezer/refrig to operate plus misc entertainment devices that I can expect two to three days battery life while on the hook. He recommends purchasing a small Honda generator for those times when when might go without running engine for more that a couple of days. Also says I might want to add a couple of solar panels as well. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

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Been full time liveaboard cruisers since 94'. About 40 - 50% of that time on the hook set up exactly as your broker describes. Both propane and portable gas generator are perfectly safe if a little IQ is applied. Just upgraded to newer solar panels giving us 630Watts .... lots for our needs.

Question for group. Survey of ‘92 GB Europa indicated Onan 16MDL 4P26501B generates 50 Hz on name plate and verified when running by meter. Broker indicates changing speed will increase Hz to std 60 Hz. No idea why 50 Hz was installed. Two questions:
1. Name plate indicates 1500 RPM not var speed. Is it common practice to increase speed to increase Hz?
2. If changing speed is common practice how does it affect generator longevity?

Wild Goose Loose said:

I am looking at purchasing a 1988 Grand Banks 36. The boat has no generator and the Broker has advised me that it's not uncommon for this boat especially with a propane stove to go without a generator and still do the same type of cruising generator powered boats do. He says that the single engine will charge the batteries while running during the day and that with only a freezer/refrig to operate plus misc entertainment devices that I can expect two to three days battery life while on the hook. He recommends purchasing a small Honda generator for those times when when might go without running engine for more that a couple of days. Also says I might want to add a couple of solar panels as well. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

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It sounds like he want to sell you that boat.

Maybe but if the generator has over Hz protection then it will just shut off.

Did anyone verify if the generator was putting out 60hz or 50hz? If it is putting out 50hz I would proceed with the position that the generator dose not exist and make your decisions on that bases.

The other glaring potential issue with purchasing a boat with a 50hz generator, is what hertz are all the appliances? 50hz, or 60hz? If the installed generator is 50hz, then I would expect the appliances to be 50 hz. Modifying the generator to put out 60hz, or installing a new 60hz generator will lead to your having to replace the following, at a minimum:

• All AC powered clocks (stove, microwave etc)
• Microwave oven, if equipped
• Battery charger(s)
• Inverter charger (if equipped)
• Isolation Transformer (if equipped)
• AC dinghy winch (if equipped)

Just a few off the top of my head, but you get the picture.

If the broker is telling you to just up the RPM on the generator engine is at best, well . . . . uninformed, and at worst, how do I say this nicely . . . . willing to do anything, however disreputable to achieve a sale.

Best of luck with dealing with that broker.

I would recommend finding a boat that is already 60hz and buying that, also finding another broker.

As a minimum call an Onan dealer and ask the question for your model, what exactly does it take to switch over to 60 hertz? It may be simple as flipping a switch or may need a new engine governor, voltage regulator and other parts ie $1000's of parts and labor. I can't imagine someone bought and installed a 50 Hz machine in North America and blessed the install for warranty purposes. Color me skeptical.
To answer your question, yes RPM is directly proportional to frequency. A 50 Hz machine turns 1500 RPM; a 60 Hz machine turns 1800 RPM. It is fairly normal to adjust a machine a few RPM to center the frequency 60-61 Hz when loaded after maintenance, but not 300 RPM.

Spinnakermna said:

Question for group. Survey of ‘92 GB Europa indicated Onan 16MDL 4P26501B generates 50 Hz on name plate and verified when running by meter. Broker indicates changing speed will increase Hz to std 60 Hz. No idea why 50 Hz was installed. Two questions:
1. Name plate indicates 1500 RPM not var speed. Is it common practice to increase speed to increase Hz?
2. If changing speed is common practice how does it affect generator longevity?

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Good news and bad news. Changing speed from 1500 rpm to 1800 rpm will increase frequency. Bad news is doing that means changing governor, perhaps voltage regulator, and, as Slowgoesit points out, who knows of the onboard appliances are compatible.

Fascinated to know if the current 50hz actually works, or if it works well when untethered. If it does work, it actually raises more questions than answers - does the boat have 50hz appliances that are impossible to source in the US (I assume this is a US boat). Boat may have some sort of oddball workaround.

Europas are a bit rare. Might be worthwhile to resolve the frequency issue assuming seller is sympathetic to the unusual configuration. If they are holding on to Covid-era sellers market mentality, walk away.

Peter

Spinnakermna said:

Question for group. Survey of ‘92 GB Europa indicated Onan 16MDL 4P26501B generates 50 Hz on name plate and verified when running by meter. Broker indicates changing speed will increase Hz to std 60 Hz. No idea why 50 Hz was installed. Two questions:
1. Name plate indicates 1500 RPM not var speed. Is it common practice to increase speed to increase Hz?
2. If changing speed is common practice how does it affect generator longevity?

Click to expand...

The boat is 32 years old. Were there an output/appliance issue you`d expect someone would have noticed. You could be worrying about a non existent problem. Can you buy 50Hz consuming appliances in your country?

50 will fry 60 hz AC units over time. Do they work?. Have cruise 50 and 60 countries. Not a problem as everything in the boat gets its juice via batteries/inverter or genset. But everything in the boat must be consistent.