New to boating and need a big boat

So I've driven some small boats before but not many, and I'm wanting to get into the trawler life with my family (wife 4 teenage boys, 1 of which is in college so won't be here most of the time.) I will be needing a good sized boat but know very little about insurance and who to hire or where to train to become confident in handling such a boat. My budget affords something built in the 80's i.e. Hatteras, OA, Cheoy Lee etc. I will mostly be cruising the eastern US and Canada with hopes of one day taking it through the Panama Canal to get to the west coast and Alaska. I don't look to do much bluewater but it would be nice if I had the capability. Any advice is welcome.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

Good luck and have fun!

Welcome aboard. As to insurance, it will be challenging to get it with your experience. You should start by taking all the classes you can. Also talk to an insurance broker and ask what you will have to do to qualify for insurance. I can whole heartedly recommend Peter Ricks at Novamar. 206-350-5051. You will have to hire a captain to train you and certify that you can handle the boat.

Hate to be brutally honest, but 5 years of local cruising, followed by 5 years of longer distance cruising and you might have enough experience by then to really start cruising....

UNLESS.... you are a rabid student of many things boating and spend many hours a day learning basic boating skills, seamanship, weather, basic oceanography (tides/currents), medical basics, boat systems and repair, navigation, etc...etc.... for at least a couple years before taking off for points distant.

Welcome aboard, good luck for your quest!
You are looking for advice so here my two cents:

• Set a budget.
• Define if you are able to do maintenance/repairs by yourself or not and update your budget accordingly.
• Set your expectations, what do you want/need from your boat? Sleeping in a 400 s.f. cabin or enjoying a small cabin.
• Think about your plan, spending most time at anchor or docking? Size makes a cost difference while docking.
• And so many things...

L

You are asking for a boat to sleep 6, half of which are adults. I have seen the ads for sale sleeps 6. But what about when all 6 are awake.
Sounds like you are looking for a 50-60 footer. 40-50 can accomodate 4-5

Informative first post!
You have to start somewhere and this site is better than most, IMO.
A 40-something year old boat will occupy lots of your time so try to supply that.
I suggest trying to buy Gus's Hatteras 50 since he already spent a year working on it.
It's available for a limited time!
(By the way, I'm a fan of the Hill Country.)

KnotYet said:

Informative first post!
You have to start somewhere and this site is better than most, IMO.
A 40-something year old boat will occupy lots of your time so try to supply that.
I suggest trying to buy Gus's Hatteras 50 since he already spent a year working on it.
It's available for a limited time! (By the way, I'm a fan of the Hill Country.)

InTooDeep

My name is Gus and I am a 26 year old mechanic/captain/entrepreneur from New Hampshire USA. I live for adventure, problem solving and good times. Currently living the Boat Life! InTooDeep Website - www.InTooDeepMerch.com Instagram - @Intoodeepboating Want to contact me? askintoodeep@gmail.com

www.youtube.com

Click to expand...

Have you seen Gus's new purchase, a 70' Broward? He's in for a real experience with that one...

Sorry for the thread drift....

You might want to consider an intermediate step between non-boater and full time live-aboard. Spend a year or two with a 25-30 foot boat on day trips and weekends with a few of the family. (You can also boat to a location that has lodging )
The advantages of this approach are that it is like jumping into a pool's shallow end. If its not for you, you won't drown. You'll still have the land house and it'll be easier and cheaper to get used to a smaller boat. Before even that you might want to charter a Trawler for a week or two. You could get used to boat life, and learn from a licensed captain.
I admire your boldness.

Welcome abroad!

FourtunateSons said:

My budget affords something built in the 80's i.e. Hatteras, OA, Cheoy Lee etc. I will mostly be cruising the eastern US and Canada with hopes of one day taking it through the Panama Canal to get to the west coast and Alaska. I don't look to do much bluewater but it would be nice if I had the capability. Any advice is welcome.

Click to expand...

You might clarify whether that means your budget can a) afford to buy the boat, or b) afford to buy the boat, fix it, maintain it, and cruise it.



Good luck with your plan, but proceed with eyes wide open.

-Chris

FourtunateSons said:

So I've driven some small boats before but not many, and I'm wanting to get into the trawler life with my family (wife 4 teenage boys, 1 of which is in college so won't be here most of the time.) I will be needing a good sized boat but know very little about insurance and who to hire or where to train to become confident in handling such a boat. My budget affords something built in the 80's i.e. Hatteras, OA, Cheoy Lee etc. I will mostly be cruising the eastern US and Canada with hopes of one day taking it through the Panama Canal to get to the west coast and Alaska. I don't look to do much bluewater but it would be nice if I had the capability. Any advice is welcome.

Click to expand...

First, welcome to TF. Friendly community with a ton of collective knowledge.

Second, you are far from the first to float such a dream. Having a boat for recreation is a great family activity.

Once upon a time ago, I was one of the core presenters at TrawlerFest where I did seminars aimed at beginners - boat selection, and boat handling tips. I used to say "the good news is it's harder to earn enough money to afford a boat than it is to learn to handle it." It's one of those things that the basics come fairly quickly but there's a lifelong learning curve that keeps interest. The adventure and independence are great lessons for kids.

Boats can be (and often are) an insatiable money pit that puts house ownership to shame. Up thread, someone posted a YouTube of a guy "Gus" who bought a boat and started cruising. What caught my ear is he sold his auto repair shop - he's an experienced mechanic. And he's a decent YouTuber who shows all the cool stuff and makes the hard stuff look pretty approachable.

My biggest single piece of advice is to buy the smallest boat you can feasibly use; and buy one in the best condition possible. I promise that even if you exceed your budget upfront, the money you will save by not having to replace worn items will put you thousands ahead (probably tens of thousands). Having a decent dinghy that can fit 6 with gear would be very expensive to replace

Teenage boys can sleep anywhere. While three staterooms may sound like a minimum, consider two staterooms and make due. When I first got my Willard 30 (a small 30-footer with only a vee-berth), me and three buddies went up the Sacramento Delta for a week. One of my buddies slept in the dinghy trailed behind the boat at anchor. We had a great time and don't remember the sleeping arrangements.

Best success.

Peter

As mentioned, insurance is going to be an obstacle. You can probably overcome your lack of experience by hiring a captain for some period of time. So figure that into you budget. Also, older boats are getting increasingly hard to find a carrier, so unless you want liability only you may not find an insurer. With your inexperience it would be good to find a captain who is willing to help with maintenance and showe you the ropes of what it takes to own as well as operate.

Find out where you are going to keep it and where you plan to haul it in the winter if you are in a freezing climate.

I doubt most non-boaters have a clue in how expensive owning a boat can be. For a 50 footer, you should expect a minimum of $25K a year for maintenance with you doing all the work at about 20 hrs a week. Have an extra $50K handy for the occasional major stuff. I've been boating and working on them for over 60 years. Have a new to me 53 Sportfish, that I've got about $45K into maintenance in the first year with me retired and spending most of my time working on. The engines were rebuilt recently prior to me purchasing to the tune of $60K each. Replaced one aftercooler myself at $8K for parts. A mechanic would have charged another $3-4K on top of that. Caterpillar recommends replacing them every 6 years. Some of the air conditioners were replaced prior - about $10K. I spend $1500 on ac and refrigeration tech fixing leaks and replacing control boards. By the way, you may have to replace whole ac systems if something fails as you can't get replacement components for the older refrigerant units. First yard bill $15K with me doing a lot of work floating a strut and aligning shafts. The $15K did include having the yard sand and paint the bottom, but I dropped and painted all the through hulls cause I'm anal and wanted them done and caulked correctly. New windlass - $1K with me glassing holes from old one and installing new ones. $1500 for new anchor and rode. As far as operational costs, I burn 60 gal/hr at cruise and fuel is still one of the lesser expensive items of ownership. Probably missed a lot of stuff and a trawler is going to be less, but you get the idea.

For stuff you can't do, make sure there are experienced tradesmen in your area and expect to pay at least $150/hr. Without that you will have a lot of down time.

Teenagers are going to love it for the first few outings and then want to hang with their friends. That may be old school thinking though as I'm told many are content with a computer or smart phone 24/7.

Personally, I get more enjoyment out of boating than anything else, so don't get discouraged. I enjoy working on the boat and I don't golf or have many other hobbies. The Bahamas is in my backyard, so I have endless cruising ground relatively close by.

Just be realistic budget and time wise. For those that enjoy it without really deep pockets, it's a way of life.

My experience with liveaboards and kids still in high school or younger... buy a boat where they can have their own "private space" to "grow" and study (however learning is accomplished/home study/regular schools). Both the kids and parents I met along the way couldn't emphasize this enough. people that think they and their families are going to "escape" these days better leave a lot behind including memories of conveniences and electronics that constantly remind young minds of what is out there.

This clearly eliminates the smallest boat for true liveaboarding with no dirt place to escape to. Was fortunate that my boys stayed in touch with the liveaboard kids they met along the way and the seemingly best adjusted ones weren't treated like sardines. This is the real test in my mind.

Now, a "recreational, non-liveaboard boat"?....sure kids sleep on the floor for a couple days to week with cushion no problem.

To really give you decent advice, more info on your plans are needed. Living on a boat sounds romantic and it is but comes with a lot of work. Are you planning on staying and working on east coast for a year or two or three? That brings a lot of issues of trying to find a liveaboard slip near your work, staying for the kids finishing school. Just local boating for a few years or? Too many variables here. There is something to be said about getting one boat to satisfy your current needs before getting another to cruise if you still have that in mind. Living on a boat is not for everyone. You will either come together as a family, marriage like you can't believe or you will end in divorce and kids jumping ship as soon as they can. I would seriously get something to try it out understanding that the best thing for your family might be to abandon the idea. Just being realistic. Having lived on three boats, 41, 45 and 70fters each had their benefits and drawbacks but all needed all members of the family to fully enjoy it or it will end in disaster.

Good luck, just be realistic with all members of the family.

This subject has numerous discussion threads mostly pointing out the differences between dreaming and reality. The OP should search the forum and then come back with more specific questions.

Usually we never hear from the OP again, makes me wonder how much of this is trolling.

Ok so some more info on me and my situation. My wife and I run our own internet based business and we only need an internet connection to keep working and Starlink should take care of that. We have homeschooled all of our children their whole lives so we won't have a problem with that. During Covid we RV'd for a year and a half around the country going from Key West to Crater Lake down through California and back to Pensacola where we lived at the time. We had no experience pulling a 43' 5th wheel but we had no problem learning. It was tight quarters as all of my kids were with us full time, but no one complained and we made it work. We have always been a traveling family and everyone is bored doing the same things all the time. I am quite handy and have taught myself how to fix most things. I've read most of the post I can find on the subject and watched basically every Youtube family doing this, but each persons needs are different which is why I chose to add my own post. My goal with this post was to get advice on what I would need to know and how to acquire knowledge on operating a larger older boat. I have also read that insurance was hard to get on older boats and especially someone with my experience level so I wanted advice on that as well. We have two homes we are going to sell plus the 5th wheel and Ram 3500 so we figure that will give us plenty of cash for repairs and unforeseen expenses. Any advice is welcome even the snarky ones. Everyone is a dreamer at some stage in their life, my wife and I have come from very meager backgrounds to get where we are and were dreamers the whole time. But we got those dreams accomplished and have now set our sites on a bigger one.

TBill36 said:

As mentioned, insurance is going to be an obstacle. You can probably overcome your lack of experience by hiring a captain for some period of time. So figure that into you budget. Also, older boats are getting increasingly hard to find a carrier, so unless you want liability only you may not find an insurer. With your inexperience it would be good to find a captain who is willing to help with maintenance and show you the ropes of what it takes to own as well as operate.

Click to expand...

Good advice. Get the captain/fixer - cruise and learn.

IMHO, 80ft is more boat than what you may need. Smaller (65?) is more versatile.

FourtunateSons said:

Ok so some more info on me and my situation. My wife and I run our own internet based business and we only need an internet connection to keep working and Starlink should take care of that. We have homeschooled all of our children their whole lives so we won't have a problem with that. During Covid we RV'd for a year and a half around the country going from Key West to Crater Lake down through California and back to Pensacola where we lived at the time. We had no experience pulling a 43' 5th wheel but we had no problem learning. It was tight quarters as all of my kids were with us full time, but no one complained and we made it work. We have always been a traveling family and everyone is bored doing the same things all the time. I am quite handy and have taught myself how to fix most things. I've read most of the post I can find on the subject and watched basically every Youtube family doing this, but each persons needs are different which is why I chose to add my own post. My goal with this post was to get advice on what I would need to know and how to acquire knowledge on operating a larger older boat. I have also read that insurance was hard to get on older boats and especially someone with my experience level so I wanted advice on that as well. We have two homes we are going to sell plus the 5th wheel and Ram 3500 so we figure that will give us plenty of cash for repairs and unforeseen expenses. Any advice is welcome even the snarky ones. Everyone is a dreamer at some stage in their life, my wife and I have come from very meager backgrounds to get where we are and were dreamers the whole time. But we got those dreams accomplished and have now set our sites on a bigger one.

Click to expand...

You'll fit right in to the boating lifestyle. If your Internet sleuthing hasn't discovered www.Bumfuzzle.com, check them out. Veteran adventurers pulling an Airstream to Alaska, circumnavigated with a small catamaran, had a couple kids along the way, bought a Grand Banks 42 and spent a couple years touring the entire Caribbean, and then returned to a sailboat a couple years ago. They have a couple YouTube videos, but mostly they blog. Very good writers and photographers.

The advice you've been given is good. My observation is people don't prematurely give up cruising because they can't figure out how to run their boat but rather they either get drained financially or get overwhelmed with repairs. Also life events get in the way.

Getting insurance is difficult and expensive but achievable. Nordhavn sells a lot of boats to folks in your same situation (albeit with an extra zero in their budget). Given your background, I don't think you'll need a captain for too long.

Preparing to work on a boat - a large RV is as close as you can get so you've got a decent start. If you look at older Hatts which are attractive in price and size, be aware that most originally had some 32-volt DC systems on them. Still a good boat but unnecessarily complicated so take a really close look at the systems on larger boats. The number of ACs and electrical sub panels can daunting for troubleshooting.

While RVs build mechanical skills, the price of parts and repairs pales in comparison to boats. Availability of patts isn't always great either. It's why I mentioned above that spending more on a top condition boat will put you well ahead of the game. An end-of-life fly bridge enclosure on a 50-foot nororyach can easily run $15k to replace and will add very little value to the boat. A 15-foor dinghy with 40hp outboard will cost close to $20k. David to support it can easily be $7k installed. A 50kg anchor and 3/8" chain rode will set you back $7k or more. A full set of fenders and docklines for a 50+ footer will be over $2k. None of this adds much value to the boat - buying a well cared for boat at top of price range is money well spent.

Maybe this discussion has jarred some specific questions. Most of the feedback this far has reacted to your general situation which is a fairly common thread.

Peter

The @TheBoomershines on youtube have a boat tour video that talks about what worked for them with their kids for cruising. You may find some of there overview/tour videos helpful to gain perspective.

How you want to live on a boat could help define what to get. Is repeating how you explored with your 5th wheel something you would repeat space wise in a boat. That could help you figure out bigger or smaller.

You could try chartering a Bayliner 47 in the NW to gain some baseline experience. Anacortes Yacht Charters may be willing to teach you how to handle the boat then let you take it out. $15K on a combo training+vacation may be money well spent for your boat search.

My last comment is if man made it mother nature will break it at 2 in morning, it's just how she rolls so except that fact and plan for it.

tiltrider1 said:

This subject has numerous discussion threads mostly pointing out the differences between dreaming and reality. The OP should search the forum and then come back with more specific questions.

Usually we never hear from the OP again, makes me wonder how much of this is trolling.

Click to expand...

Rather than trolling,I suspect the idealistic panic at exposure to reality.

My take..... boating and RVing do have a few things in common.

But RVing did only take a short amount of time to get well beyond the basics....boating I had done for since I was 10, lived aboard for nearly 17 years, 20+ years in USCG boating interface and the 15 years fully involved as a commercial captain and boat maintainer. I was only half way to being a seasoned, long distance cruiser.

It's one thing to sail off into the sunset by yourself, quite another to drag a family along on many levels. For every quick to the horizon YouTube types out there...... there are by far a larger number who wound up dead, severely injured or now without anything to their name but a lifejacket and the clothes on their backs.

Having a dream is a good thing, having the discipline to get there is a long ladder to climb.

Think of how much knowledge you gained in K-12th grade. That took13 years and there was little practical application required, just bookwork learning. In my experience...getting to be a well prepared cruiser think along those lines....there is a ton of learning and then the practical application of it.

So keep the dream, more importantly keep the passion and the discipline to figure out what you need to get there and start grinding away. Or just let it come naturally, it just will take a lot longer.

Charter a boat and get a taste for it. Not in the Bahamas or BVI, but in Ft Meyers or St Augustine. It isn't all fun and beauty.

A big Hatteras will be a money pit, but actually might fit for your family. I would not go over 50'. The expenses are not linear but exponential related to length.

I would suggest charter, then buy a learner boat before diving off the deep end. Everyone getting sea sick on a bad day may impact plans.

@FourtunateSons First your stock just went up in my eyes for responding quickly. Sorry but it is not uncommon here to see one and done posts.

I have owned more than a dozen boats including 2 vintage Hatts. Your RV experience will be helpful but as noted adding salt water and many other factors make boating significantly different.

I would start with a list of items like this:

1) Budget. What can you comfortable afford to buy and maintain? What is your cruising budget? Not based upon cost but what can you comfortable maintain.
2) Even though it will change, plan out your first 3 years. Year 1 will mostly be spent in prep after you buy the boat. Even if it is 100% ready you have a lot of work to do to transition from land to water.
3)Once you have this 3 year plan do a realistic cost assessment. Compare this to item #1.
4) What assumptions did you make to come up with #3. How much time in marinas. How many trips "home" or to visit family? Is that aligned with family expectations?
5) What is your plan after boating? What happens if health or family issues force a change in plans. Role play as a family and stress test against your financial plan.
6) Get all the time with experienced boaters you can. Join a local club or volunteer on boats. I just had a couple join me from San Diego to San Francisco. Being east coast boaters they gained a new perspective on West coast cruising. Night and Day. Take classes. Volunteer to crew on some passages.
7) Family first. A 1 year RV trip is similar but different from several years living aboard where you have now severed the ties to "home". Male plans A, B,C...

There are probably another 100 considerations but at least these are some concrete topics that can get you started.
There will be some snarky remarks but mostly experienced and helpful folks.

My first big boat was 65', I was 13. But I came from a maritime family.
It's easier to learn to dock a big boat than a small one. When you find your boat get some experienced mariner, preferably a commercial operator to teach handling and docking on your boat. Almost everything else can be acquired from the right books.

Have to disagree.... docking is the one thing easily taught and practiced with a bit of supervision. By using one's free time, and practicing, one may be able to master it rather quickly. But then again some people can never master boating/driving/flying because they just never see the "picture". However.... like most here advocate, just add thrusters and walla, everyone is a pro.

All the other things while can be read about (and should be studied), they are often not tied together well and best absorbed under the tutelage of a very experienced boater/cruiser. There are just so many things to absorb even when staying in one's own country. Start discussing international and that is a whole separate set of things to absorb.

A 10-year ramp up would be ideal.

On the other hand, I jumped from a center console to a 43 ft.. motoryacht. Got some survey repairs done in the boat yard. Spent a day with a captain and took off for Charleston (160 miles from my marina, running offshore) a couple of months later after a half dozen day trips.

A couple of caveats- I had no big boat experience, but I did have 30 years and thousands of hours fishing offshore in small boats. Stuff you do when you're young, like 70 miles off in a single-engine stern drive. And I've been around heavy equipment since I was 16 years old, so I'm not scared to pick up a wrench.

I will say that the day that I spent with a training captain was invaluable. He had run the boat for the previous owner and knew it well. He had me pull up to an empty T-head repeatedly (it was a week day with minimal traffic) and try different approaches and techniques.

If you're not mechanically-inclined and hands on, keeping all of the pumps and systems humming will be a challenge without an open check mindset. And even then, it will take a while to build a list of reliable marine contractors.

Choices said:

Charter a boat and get a taste for it. Not in the Bahamas or BVI, but in Ft Meyers or St Augustine. It isn't all fun and beauty.

A big Hatteras will be a money pit, but actually might fit for your family. I would not go over 50'. The expenses are not linear but exponential related to length.

I would suggest charter, then buy a learner boat before diving off the deep end. Everyone getting sea sick on a bad day may impact plans.

Click to expand...

This is my answer, too. The romance of a boat is wonderful but reality often turns out differently from the romance, and it's better to learn that with a temporary investment in a charter.

Additionally, if you charter the boat that you THINK you want, you can test the waters (so to speak). You very well may change your mind.

I agree with others that the mechanics of learning to pilot a boat seem like a relatively minor issue in this scenario. Much more important is whether you and the family will actually like it, and whether all of the headaches (boats require a LOT of maintenance) will be worth it to you. That's hard to predict in advance (but again, charter might be somewhat informative).