Rule 35 Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility

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Wdeertz

Wdeertz

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
344
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Bagus
Vessel Make
Kadey Krogen 52-01
I’m currently cruising in Maine and don’t have a lot of experience boating in fog. The other day I made a 11 hour offshore run in heavy fog (at times down to 150-200ft visibility) and had my hailer on the required underway sound signal. Per my AIS there were other boats within .25-.5 nm of me yet I didn’t hear any other sound signals from the other boats. I had my pilothouse doors open to listen but never heard any other sounds. Do locals not consider it restricted visibility at such fog levels? At what visibility threshold do others implement the sound signals?
 
I've experienced the same thing. Fishermen, big express cruisers, even sailors seem not to bother following that particular rule. It's pretty much just the larger commercial vessels you'll hear.
 
I'd consider a 1/2 mile a reasonable threshold to start sound signals. I'd expect a large portion of recreational boaters to be stupid and clueless about it and just not bother. Heck, I've gotten some dirty looks for sounding 1 long when coming out of a restricted visibility marina fairway.

Most sailors aren't even equipped to produce fog signals unless they have a hailer on board. Most don't have fixed horns and a canned horn isn't going to last long in the fog.
 
Though I haven't seen the USCG description of restricted visibility, I thing generally 3 NM is often the rule of thumb. In waterways less than 3 NM dimensions, then all the way to the other shore.

The NAVRULES also say "In or near areas of restricted visiblity....." you use sound signals and NAV lights.

I always used sound signals, both recreationally and professionally but agree, too many don't.

Almost T-boned an oysterman in the middle of Chesapeake Bay who was not showing lights or using sound signals...he was solo, out on deck tonging. The problem with so many small vessels, engine noise is so loud that hearing a sound signal is almost impossible and probably gets boaters thinking they are useless. Of course, many of these guys zoom around known boating areas at excessive speed anyhow.

I note that I post occasionally but never seems to get traction. A few years back after an NTSB investigation, the USCG put out a circular on loudhailer sound signals after they found the vast majority did not meet COLREG loudness specs.
 
psneeld said:
I note that I post occasionally but never seems to get traction. A few years back after an NTSB investigation, the USCG put out a circular on loudhailer sound signals after they found the vast majority did not meet COLREG loudness specs.
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On the same note, plenty of small boat horns take the easy way out allowed by the COLREGS and are nowhere near loud enough to be heard well nor would they be allowed on a 40+ foot boat.
 
I’ve cruised in Maine for the last 35 years and most definitely have done most of the coast in thick fog many times. I use sound signals but you won’t hear any commercial fishermen sounding their horns and many others are silent as well. The most frustrating & irritating circumstance I ran into was a New York Yacht Club cruising flotilla of about 25 boats neither sounding their horns or responding to radio calls. It was a dangerous situation as I was headed southwest and they were all heading northeast. Not one of them yielded to me either. All radio calls unanswered.
 
Recreational boats rarely follow Rule 35 in the PNW. However, when there is an incident they always get a proportionate amount of blame for failure to follow rule 35.
 
Raytheon used to make a really nice hailer with fog signals. It would do all the signals, not just underway. Because it used a large external speaker, when not transmitting the signal, it would revert to listening. There were separate controls for listening and transmitting, so you could hear another boat even if it wasn't transmitting fog signals. Used it quite a bit on lake Superior with its pea soup fog.

Occasionally see them on ebay as
Raytheon or Raymarine 430 Loudhailer. Make sure they have the microphone.

Ted
 
I bought a Standard Horizon hailer last year to replace the old broken one I had. Does all those things, and I use it.
 
My experience only. One in a hundred might know what the signal means. One in a thousand might know when to sound them
 
High Wire said:
My experience only. One in a hundred might know what the signal means. One in a thousand might know when to sound them
Click to expand...
That may be true, but I still sound them to cover my ass. I can’t help it if others don’t know the rules, but I do and follow them to help limit my liability.
 
I don't worry as much about the people who don't sound the proper signal as much as I do the fools who speed through low visibility conditions at unsafe speeds. While safe speed is not specifically defined as to speed or range of visibility in the COLREGS, it does say you need to be able to avoid collision and to be stopped within an appropriate distance, often figured as slow enough to be stopped within one half the visibility.

As to the loudness of the ship's "whistle," the COLREGS at ANNEX III specify several different frequencies and an accompanying decibel level for the various size ranges of vessels. For most here we are talking a range to be heard of either a mile or half a mile and loudness ranging from 130dB to as low as 111 dB.
 
I sound the signals and monitor radar. If I see a bad situation developing damn the rules. Make a lot of racket to get their attention. Saved me more than once when a sport fisher is on a collision course at high speed.
 
Portage_Bay said:
Saved me more than once when a sport fisher is on a collision course at high speed.
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You must have one hell of a horn for a sportfish to hear you while they're underway...
I keep my signal horn on auto in restricted visibility to hopefully alert other boaters but to also be able to tell the CG and insurance company that I had it on in the event of a mishap.
 
Been in multiple marinas where you can not see if anyone is using or about to use the exit/entrance. Other than myself and commercial ferries think everyone violates the sound signals in that kind of situation as well. That is most annoying as radar can’t see through the host of boats in their slips to the channel and many boats don’t show on AIS. In one place (NEB) would get ready then take a walk to get a direct visual of what’s going on before leaving . Passing inside the fairways was difficult even on calm days as it’s open to currents.
 
boomerang said:
You must have one hell of a horn for a sportfish to hear you while they're underway...
I keep my signal horn on auto in restricted visibility to hopefully alert other boaters but to also be able to tell the CG and insurance company that I had it on in the event of a mishap.
Click to expand...
I used to have a heck of a horn. But that was another boat. Current boat has a more typical electric horn. I'd call it feeble.
 
I treat the Colregs horn volume requirements as a bare minimum. Within reason, louder is better when possible. I've heard a few boats with factory horns so weak I could barely hear them while idling into the marina. Generally I take the attitude that if you can hit the horns with a person on the bow and not cause that person to be in pain, the horns aren't loud enough. A good set of dual trumpet electric horns is the bare minimum acceptable on any boat in my mind.
 
As many have pointed out, fog sound signals are rarely observed most anywhere. I grew up boating in Maine, so I'm familiar with that. And we lived near NYC for years, and the same was true in that busy harbor when foggy!

I have a Raymarine VHF-73 with hailer, and I love the fog horn feature! I use it. However, one night anchoring in fog off Tarpon Springs in FL, I almost had a mutiny on board as my crew could not get any sleep. We dropped the hook because the crab pots were too difficult to see in the dark + fog. Waited for sun-up sans automatic fog horn signals! But one of us stayed "up" to LISTEN for any traffic (1-hour shifts).

AIS + Radar + coordinating passings by VHF is by far the more common tool(s) that ARE actually used. e.g. Before I owned AIS, listening to all the VHF traffic (in fog) crossing Block Island Sound (Newport RI to Long Island NY) where many vessels could coordinate passings BY BOAT NAME in thick fog, definitely "sold me" on AIS. I would not be underway without it now!
 
Farwell's commentary on the Rules of the Road (ISBN 978-1682475492) says that while the Rules do not specify what "restricted visibility" means, a reasonable person would believe that if sidelights must be visible for two miles, then if visibility is less than that it is restricted. That seems good to me, so I sound my horn when I can't see objects at two miles.

I agree that few boats on the New England coast sound their horns.

Jim
 
All should remember that the rules state "RULE 35 Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility..... In or near an area of restricted visibility"

Just because you are in clear and blue, if near a thick fog bank or smoke area....etc.... showing Nav lights and sounding signals is in the rules. Though lights aren't written the same way concerning "near", it does mention if "deemed necessary".

I have read an incident where a vessel emerged from a thick fog bank and had an incident and the vessel in the clear was found partially at fault under this rule and the lights rules. In this case, the court thought if one should be sounding fog signals, lights may have penetrated the visibility better than an all white vessel and would be "prudent seamanship".

The best part of these rules threads is we discuss the rules and what can happen if you don't follow them to the "T". Sadly the only times you really hear the rules discussed in detail is in these threads, captains licensing courses and reading court proceedings.
 
Portage_Bay said:
I sound the signals and monitor radar. If I see a bad situation developing damn the rules. Make a lot of racket to get their attention. Saved me more than once when a sport fisher is on a collision course at high speed.
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In my captains class, I was taught to give way to any radar contact on a collision course in restricted visibility, The reason given was that you can't tell if the other vessel can "see" you or not. It's Rule 19.
 
Circumnavigator said:
Farwell's commentary on the Rules of the Road (ISBN 978-1682475492) says that while the Rules do not specify what "restricted visibility" means, a reasonable person would believe that if sidelights must be visible for two miles, then if visibility is less than that it is restricted. That seems good to me, so I sound my horn when I can't see objects at two miles.

I agree that few boats on the New England coast sound their horns.

Jim
Click to expand...
That's a reasonable way to think of it, but I give some adjustment based on the area and its typical traffic (particularly regarding speed). In a harbor where nothing is moving faster than single digit speeds, the point where limited visibility becomes a hazard to maneuvering is a shorter distance than in open water where you may encounter something doing 20+ kts. Similarly in a river channel you may never be able to see 2 miles due to topography.
 
Mischief Managed said:
In my captains class, I was taught to give way to any radar contact on a collision course in restricted visibility, The reason given was that you can't tell if the other vessel can "see" you or not. It's Rule 19.
Click to expand...
You are correct. But when the contact is coming at you at 3 to 4 times your speed your options are limited. Especially when it's a swarm of sport fishers coming out of their "resort". So in addition to make a lot of racket I stop.
 
Radar and AIS, radar reflectors and lights. Sound your horn if you want, but by the time I figure out where the sound came from (direction) I will already have seen you with instruments.
Locally, our BC Ferries sound horns in daytime when there is no line of sight and can be heard for a few miles. If they sound them in the fog, I have yet to hear them. Mind you 1-2 times a year in thick fog may be the reason.
 
The concept of limited vis with the COLREGs/Nanrules for "shipping" is go dead slow when you are not 100% confident in your radar/AIS/other inputs and/or in traffic controlled areas that are 100% confident in their radar/traffic control capabilities.

Us little guys?.... lets face it..... it is a free for all.
 
RADAR, AIS, fog horn, ears/eyes. What am forgetting?
 
There used to be a device called a “Fogmate” that could be installed onto any horn to automate sound signals. I never pulled the pin on a purchase and now they are no longer available. Kahlenberg has one that seems reasonable in price. They have more expensive options as well

www.kahlenberg.com

Model M-485B Horn Signal Controller, Fog Signal Timer

The M-485B Horn Signal Controller provides for the automatic control of electric or air operated horns in conditions of restricted visibility (fog signaling).
www.kahlenberg.com www.kahlenberg.com

IMO, the most important device in fog is use of radar and proper education and training in its use. Typically, whilst traveling in the fog, the rest of the crew is standing beside the helm looking out the window, and my eyes are glued to the instruments.

Jim
 
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We are getting the Kahlenberg controller in 2 weeks ... will report after using it! We're mounting it at the helm so it's an easy single switch. They make a fancier control panel, too, but IMO that's overkill for recreational boating.

Meanwhile +1 to the notes above that many VHFs have automated horn-via-hailer features.
 
I have a FogMate and a 3 trumpet air horn, LOUD!
I forgot plus a RADAR reflector. The difficulty with the reflector is where to put it ina meaningful position
 
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