2nd start of fire in electrical equipment, what are your experiences ?

lwarden said:

I'm still baffled by the fact that you can't import the correct cable to Greece from an overseas or other European source. Do they have some sort of a massive tariff or other trade protection in-place, or do shipping companies just plain not do business there? Seems like this sort of lack of importing would make general life very difficult.

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One of my professional mentors used to say "business don't act rationally." Doubly true for governments. Mambos Greece story - whether law or custom - would not surprise me one bit. When I was in Mazatlan and needed an AC compressor repaired, best bet was a guy in La Paz, a ferry ride away - send the compressor on the ferry and a couple days later he'll send it back on a ferry. Easy. Right? Except the entire Baja peninsula is some sort of trade zone. The net effect was the compressor could easily go to La Paz, but it could not return without going through Aduana (customs) and taxation which could take weeks. Going from the Mexican state of Siniloa to Baja California Sur was no different than going from Mexico to the US.

Governments do oddball things. While I don't know Europe well, seems the further south you go in Europe the less rational the government acts, including my ancestral homeland of Sicily.

Peter

Mambo42 said:

The discussion is not that it is not clear.
The problem is that this specific cable, of the thickness required, fire retardant and marine grade............could not be sourced in Greece. It was impossible to get that cable unless I would buy the whole roll (needed between 6 and 8 mtrs) for both black and red, for a total price of 800 euro and it was unclear when that special order would then arrive.
That was the reason why a 6 mm2 cable was used.

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OK, so you acknowledge you used the wrong cable.

So why is this even a discussion about the faults of Victron equipment?

Why not a discussion of how to buy things internationally online.

I live in Mexico and import boat parts constantly that are not available here.
Why is this such a big deal?

Mambo42 said:

The discussion is not that it is not clear.
The problem is that this specific cable, of the thickness required, fire retardant and marine grade............could not be sourced in Greece. It was impossible to get that cable unless I would buy the whole roll (needed between 6 and 8 mtrs) for both black and red, for a total price of 800 euro and it was unclear when that special order would then arrive.
That was the reason why a 6 mm2 cable was used.

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And that is the product manufacturer's fault or responsibility?

Mambo42 said:

Those excuses sound very nice and perhaps are even true, however when so many installers make this mistake and even people who are trained hobby electricians then there is only one conclusion. If Victron wants to keep using these connection blocks they should only sell this equipment through official installers who also have to install it. No more sales in DIY, chandlers, web shops etc. If it is that critical and so many accidents have happened in the past, that is the only solution, or the connection block needs to be changed into a nut and bolt system.

Victron themselves advice use of a circuitbreaker on page 34 of their manual. This video however shows that you should never ever use that circuit breaker, it will cause an instant fire if used under load.

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Here are 2 paragraphs of yours.

In the first one you propose a remedy to the burn up issue, only use an official installer.
Isn't that exactly what you did? Doesn't seemed to have worked out too well, did it?

In the 2nd one, yes Victron says in essence in their clause, 6.5 Shutdown and restart procedure, that the solar charger does not have any on/off switch, to shut it off you are to switch off the PV supply (no definition as to how, but why should there be?) or by removing the external fuse or circuit breaker. I trust your official installer put one of these devices in the PV circuit. Now come to think of it, they likely didn't as in Post #133 while describing the 2 burn up instances you said that you pulled the wires from the controller to stop the fire. Why not flip the breaker? Does a breaker/switch exist in the PV circuit?

Mambo42 said:

Most shocking one however is this one:

And on page 34 of the manual of Victron they actually recommend this one. Makes you wonder.

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Where exactly on page 34 or anywhere in the manual, does Victron recommend the use of this fire breathing dragon? Post the full page, I can find it from there. I see no recommendation anywhere in the current on-line solar charger manual. Makes you wonder, just more smoke?

Post 141 explained it best. Victron warned about using the wrong type of wire, not so much the wrong size but the number of strands. Many suggested to trim off strands until it fits, but still the strands are too large to be able to properly torque.
So is there an option available when the proper wire is not?
Early on I suggested a pigtail. shoes/ferrules were suggested. It seems that the softer multi strand can be compressed enough not to become loose. It seems unless the specified wire type, strands not to exceed 0.4mm is used then you can expect a fire.

Maybe this is a defect for Victron international sales.

Just a tip for all those hiring "professional installers".

I went to work in a marine electronics firm after retiring from the USCG. They hired me as an "outside salesman". I was REALLY bad at it. So I asked if I could be a hands on installer. They had gotten to know me and trusted me not to bite off more than I could handle.

This was back in the early 2000's when the marine industry was exploding with new tech. Some of which was inverters. When I studied up on them, they owners were resistant to buying thousands of yards of new spools of wire to accommodate the manufacturer recommendations of "proper cable". They were often willing to accept a 10% loss or more as long as it met the "ongoing" practices of meeting ampacity. I resisted and occasionally I won the discussion and in the long run got these "old timer pros" to realize more learning and training was needed all around.

After a few years in the "business" I wound up being "the fixer". I would get sent out to fix the screw ups the other installers seemed to make on a regular basis.

Bottom line..... after that experience and another 15 years working in the marine industry and working on or living with many systems repaired by "pros" in the field, I rarely trust the work done by anyone but me.

This was emphasized during my years in the assistance tow business. After many a tow, the owner would tip me generously so I felt I should offer back some assistance on what was wrong with their boat. They would too many times express that they just got it back from the marina for the exact same issue I towed them in for. Often the solution was obvious to me and I would recommend a fix. Again, too many times I would be asked if I knew of a "trusted repair facility" and I would have to respond it was always a crap shoot depending on what tech worked on it. Occasionally, if simple enough I would fix the boat but too often not enough time or desire to go back to fixing many boats. Funny enough, every once and awhile I get a phone call now years after I quit from old customers who still have me on speed dial.

The reason I do so much myself is the same reason I didn't fly professionally after the USCG. I never could trust the mechs after the USCG as they usually didn't fly in that same helo with me in the same demanding conditions. THOSE guys I DID trust with my life (as they did me) because they were along for the ride. Find installers like that and that's a different story.

lwarden said:

I'm still baffled by the fact that you can't import the correct cable to Greece from an overseas or other European source. Do they have some sort of a massive tariff or other trade protection in-place, or do shipping companies just plain not do business there? Seems like this sort of lack of importing would make general life very difficult.

Click to expand...

If you want you can import whatever you want, but you will be paying for it and that is going to be a hefty sum. Most likely we will see some replies from people who claim they will happily pay 800 euro for 5 meters of cable if that cable is the correct cable, but let's not fool ourselves shall we. There is not a single person who is going to shell out that amount of money and have 42 mtrs Red and 42 mtrs black lying somewhere in the boat because he does not need it. It just is not going to happen.
And then, when you buy the correct cable now Victron will claim you have used the wrong ferrules (also one of their favorite claims).
Problem with Greece is that it is a country with lots of islands and the market for solar is extremely small. You cannot go off grid in Greece (unless you want to go through a few years of bureaucracy) or install solar panels on your house and start delivering back to the grid. As a result the market for solar is almost non existent and as a result of that the amount of qualified installers is minimum. I think that there are basically 3 or 4 installers in the whole country, that is it.
As a result of that the market for specialized cables is even smaller. Suppliers have to import everything and odd sizes they simply don't keep on stock. I fully understand why they don't have them on stock, they need to pay up front and then hope and pray someone will buy them. So the practice is to order them once somebody asks for them. However, they cannot just order 1 roll, so they have to wait until they have 1 pallet full and that may take several months before that happens.
Of course you can get all the household cables, but they cannot be used in a boat. And if you then also want fire retardant cables it becomes even more difficult.

That is the problem in the Southern part of the Med, it is not what most of you are used to in the US, where you can walk into any store, go to any web shop and within a few days you have what you need.

Like I stated before: if you want to connect Victron batteries you will need 70 mm2 8 mm thick cable shoes. Good luck finding those in Turkey, Greece, Montenegro, Croatia or Albania, they don't sell them and you cannot order them. But still you need them. I found them after 1.5 years of searching in Lefkas. In the mean time I have bought about 50 cable shoes of 70 mm2 10 mm thick in all kinds of quality.

psneeld said:

Just a tip for all those hiring "professional installers".

I went to work in a marine electronics firm after retiring from the USCG. They hired me as an "outside salesman". I was REALLY bad at it. So I asked if I could be a hands on installer. They had gotten to know me and trusted me not to bite off more than I could handle.

This was back in the early 2000's when the marine industry was exploding with new tech. Some of which was inverters. When I studied up on them, they owners were resistant to buying thousands of yards of new spools of wire to accommodate the manufacturer recommendations of "proper cable". They were often willing to accept a 10% loss or more as long as it met the "ongoing" practices of meeting ampacity. I resisted and occasionally I won the discussion and in the long run got these "old timer pros" to realize more learning and training was needed all around.

After a few years in the "business" I wound up being "the fixer". I would get sent out to fix the screw ups the other installers seemed to make on a regular basis.

Bottom line..... after that experience and another 15 years working in the marine industry and working on or living with many systems repaired by "pros" in the field, I rarely trust the work done by anyone but me.

This was emphasized during my years in the assistance tow business. After many a tow, the owner would tip me generously so I felt I should offer back some assistance on what was wrong with their boat. They would too many times express that they just got it back from the marina for the exact same issue I towed them in for. Often the solution was obvious to me and I would recommend a fix. Again, too many times I would be asked if I knew of a "trusted repair facility" and I would have to respond it was always a crap shoot depending on what tech worked on it. Occasionally, if simple enough I would fix the boat but too often not enough time or desire to go back to fixing many boats. Funny enough, every once and awhile I get a phone call now years after I quit from old customers who still have me on speed dial.

The reason I do so much myself is the same reason I didn't fly professionally after the USCG. I never could trust the mechs after the USCG as they usually didn't fly in that same helo with me in the same demanding conditions. THOSE guys I DID trust with my life (as they did me) because they were along for the ride. Find installers like that and that's a different story.

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Sadly that is also the story in most of the countries in the Med.
Especially on the islands we have the saying 'one eye is king'. You arrive with your boat on an island and there is a problem............you will be taken to the cleaners and the quality of the job is not important to them.
Most marinas will not allow outside workers to come and work there, so you have to use the companies that are allowed in that marina. When I had to do my engine change I was referred to a company (by the marina), which calls themselves 'Marine Services Corfu'. On their shed they have logos' of Janmar, Detroit diesel, Mercury and a few others. None of these companies know MSC and MSC has no rights to use these logos, but the marina does not stop them from using the logo. This company, MSC, is known (amongst other mechanics) as the savages. One company actually told me that 80 % of the work they have is cleaning up the mess that MSC creates.
Why does the marina not do anything against this company ? Because they get 30 % of the total bill. None of these companies were insured, so if they caused damage you were on your own. I managed to change that last year, now all the companies need to have a liability insurance of at least 1 million euro and they are not happy that I made that happen. But after having sustained over 40.000 euro in damage to my boat due to malpractice I was fed up with it, so I got in touch with the owners of D-marin, an investment company in Luxembourg. Also wrote to several boating journalists and got the ball rolling. At the end of last year the mandatory insurance came through, so at least I got something changed for the better.

Marinas, maintenance companies etc in this part of the Med are the wild wild west, anything goes and at the same time trying to find spare parts etc is a complete nightmare. I know it is hard to understand for people who live in a country where you can get anything within 5 min, but that is simply the way it is here.

This is a GREAT thread for newbies dreaming of taking off into the wild blue.

Especially the ones who have owned homes for decades and still wonder which end of a screwdriver works the best. Best of luck out there.... better have a great credit line.

Sad part is it's not just Greece...it's pretty much wherever you go these days cruising unless you have a marina you have been using for decades and know which techs really know their stuff..

The coolest thing I ever saw happening at a marina was a "certified shipwright" that was working under a boat. He had a bluetooth earpiece in and was talking to factory reps about what he was doing. That is so rare in my experience, many don't bother to read the instructions in the box.

Mambo42 said:

Like I stated before: if you want to connect Victron batteries you will need 70 mm2 8 mm thick cable shoes. Good luck finding those in Turkey, Greece, Montenegro, Croatia or Albania, they don't sell them and you cannot order them. But still you need them. I found them after 1.5 years of searching in Lefkas. In the mean time I have bought about 50 cable shoes of 70 mm2 10 mm thick in all kinds of quality.

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I don’t know why you would need an 8 mm thick cable lug. I think you may be really talking about a cable lug with a 8 mm diameter fastener hole.

If so, in less than 5 min you can easily find on Amazon Europe from Germany a package of 10 Auprotec tin plated, closed end, copper 70 mm2, cable lugs with an 8 mm diameter hole for 27 Euros including VAT, (I think) delivered to Greece in less than a week.

Lots of other sizes are also available.

No year long search, lying merchants, or corruption is to be expected as it’s all done on line, by Bezos. If you need to return them you will get the cash back quickly, no questions asked.

Why is this so hard?

For boat stuff the German supplyer SVB.DE delivers worldwide and it's shop shows realtime what is in stock. They are well known and respected for their reliability.

luna said:

I don’t know why you would need an 8 mm thick cable lug. I think you may be really talking about a cable lug with a 8 mm diameter fastener hole.

If so, in less than 5 min you can easily find on Amazon Europe from Germany a package of 10 Auprotec tin plated, closed end, copper 70 mm2, cable lugs with an 8 mm diameter hole for 27 Euros including VAT, (I think) delivered to Greece in less than a week.

Lots of other sizes are also available.

No year long search, lying merchants, or corruption is to be expected as it’s all done on line, by Bezos. If you need to return them you will get the cash back quickly, no questions asked.

Why is this so hard?

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Why is it so hard for you to understand that Germany is not Greece and it is not Turkey ? The US is a large country and you can order from the West coast, have it delivered on the East coast, no problem.
The eastern Med is not the US. You can order what you want, does not mean it is going to arrive. E.g. Turkey is not in the EU, so that means customs formalities, but worse, as a foreigner you are not allowed to import anything in Turkey, you will need to go through an agent. That simple item of perhaps 1 euro or even 10 euro will now become 300 euro (import, agent fees, transport fees). Trust me I know, I was in Turkey and was faced with this myself. Complete nightmare.
As for Greece, read up on the fora of expats living in Greece, wondering how to buy and get products from other countries to their location. I know it is the EU, does not mean it is easy or can be done. All packages first go to Athens, that is standard. From there it will go to the islands. Now google DHL and find if they have offices on all the islands. Let me give you the answer: they don't.
First of all you need a tax number if you want to receive a package. As a foreigner you don't have a tax number. Then you need an official address and if you are visiting a marina you are not allowed to use the address of the marina. You can use the address of a company, but that means it will be seen as turn over and company cost for them, with all the tax implications. That is for the paper work.
With no DHL on 99 % of the islands you will have to get it from Athens to wherever you are with a different courier. Sometimes that will go well, other times your package will disappear and then I have not even started about customs, because although it comes from within the EU everything still goes through customs and if they won't allow it to pass it is not going to be delivered.
Recently I had to ship my fuel pump to the Netherlands. I brought it myself to Athens and picked it up there when it came back. In all that cost me about 1500 USD in cost for DHL/courier service and my transportation cost. But I needed that pump repaired. Perhaps now you will say: ah, those cost are normal, but when everything you buy has a risk of disappearing and you need to pay a fortune in transportation cost it is not going to be so much fun anymore.

Gypsy Island said:

For boat stuff the German supplyer SVB.DE delivers worldwide and it's shop shows realtime what is in stock. They are well known and respected for their reliability.

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I know SVB, normally have it delivered in the Netherlands and when I am there (once a year) I pick up what I ordered.
If I want to ship it to Greece I will need an official address, which I don't have. Need a tax number, which I don't have, so now need to ship it to a chandler (if they agree), pay the chandler extra and hope the package will arrive. Since we don't stay in places longer than 1 week (usually it is only a few days) shipping to a location means you will be there for several weeks. And then you still don't know if it is going to arrive or not.

For Turkey ? Very simple, as a foreigner you are not allowed to import goods into Turkey, so SVB to Turkey is a no go.

Mambo42 said:

Now google DHL and find if they have offices on all the islands. Let me give you the answer: they don't.

With no DHL on 99 % of the islands you will have to get it from Athens to wherever you are with a different courier.

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Well I guess like every other business in Greece, DHL's website is also full of lies, deceit and corruption.

Mambo42 said:

Perhaps now you will say: ah, those cost are normal, but when everything you buy has a risk of disappearing and you need to pay a fortune in transportation cost it is not going to be so much fun anymore.

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If indeed your life in these overly bureaucratic, oppressive, corrupt and expensive countries is "not going to be so much fun anymore", then why are you there?

luna said:

Well I guess like every other business in Greece, DHL's website is also full of lies, deceit and corruption.

View attachment 156991







If indeed your life in these overly bureaucratic, oppressive, corrupt and expensive countries is "not going to be so much fun anymore", then why are you there?

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Let me ask you a question: 'do you live in Greece ?' Have you been in Greece ? Have you ever bought something in Greece ?
I find it amazing to read here that someone, who does not know Greece, is going to tell me how Greece functions.
As for DHL ? Yes, on paper they have offices on many islands, in reality they don't. What they do have is some sort of an agreement with other courier services, but you cannot drop a package off at those offices. You will have to go online, prepare the whole shipment (in Greek) and then call DHL, get them to give you a shipping number. Then you can go to another courier and hopefully they will accept it. On the island of Corfu there should be a DHL office, so I went there with my fuel pump.
Sorry, wrong office, we used to work with DHL, now no more. But there is another courier who works with DHL, so off I went. Yes, we work with DHL, but we will also charge you our fee, i.o.w. you will pay double. When will it be sent or received ? No idea, depends how many packages we have.
And that is why I got in the car, took the ferry to Igoumenitsa, then drove to Athens (4.5 hour drive at 150 km/hr), dropped the package off at the DHL office, drove back to Corfu. Same I did when the pump came back, drove to Athens to pick it up.
Please do me and everyone a favor: don't try to be smart and pretend that you know how Greece functions. There is a huge difference with what you see on paper and what is in reality.
To give you another example, we bought a house last year on Corfu. The owner was selling, we accepted the price and the lawyers started preparing the paperwork. They told me that, with a bit of luck, the payment can be made in December, which is 1.5 years after we bought it. I have no clue what they are doing and why it takes so long, but that is Greece. After that we will get to the building permits and that is going to take another year. You even have to get a building permit in Greece is you want to paint your doors or walls inside the house, it is called a small permit, but you have to hire an engineer who will come and take a look before you start. He will make a report, that will go to the office involved and a few months later you will get the permit. Paint your house inside without a permit and you will get a 10.000 euro fine.
Why did we buy the house if Greece is so bad ?
The house is on the water front, in a bay, we can have a mooring buoy in front of the house, so the boat can be there during the months when we are not on the boat (mostly November - end of March). During the summer we will rent it out. For the rest we have nothing to do with Greece, bureaucracy or anything else.

That is the real Greece, not what you see on TV, encounter on a holiday or think you know from reading wikipedia or seeing on Youtube.

The "bureaucratic ridiculousness" of which Mambo42 writes is so true!
Any non-Greek with more than a passing interest in Greece will be well amused and rewarded by tracking down and reading books by Vernon Vas Elliott.
Here are some, but not all, of his books. They are out-of-print, but worth the effort to obtain!

I especially liked:

A Visitor's Guide of How Not to Sail the Greek Isles and Other Minor Catastrophes: A Very Fractured Review​

While we were in Lavrio, Greece, I had a service company there look into why I was suddenly getting a warning from my VW Marine engine computer that there was water in the fuel. I thought this unlikely, as I have a Vetus water separator (glass bowl) before the engine fuel filter and it showed no signs of water. The company checked and they even drew off fuel at the engine in a plastic bag to check for water. None. The diagnosis was a faulty sensor. So they unplugged the sensor and ordered a new one. Of course, it did not arrive anywhere close to the promised schedule and we decided to embark without it. We agreed that when it arrived, they would send it on to me where I would be over-wintering in France. Yesterday, I received an e-mail from them that I would have to agree to pay 136€ for DHL to ship this 8 ounce sensor (ground) from Athens to France. I was half tempted to tell them to throw it away. In the end, they agreed to put it in regular mail, since there is no rush. Sigh.

Ok I'll do as you request, as I am always forthright, & fair and generally am, an agreeable guy. Unless I suspect something stinks.

So to answer your first 3 questions, in your order: No, No, and No.

So now you admit that DHL has a presence on many of the Greek Islands.
Thats a change!
The discussion in which you claimed that 99% of the islands don't have a DHL office involved the receipt of goods, remember those 8mm thick cable shoes, not the shipping of goods. Why turn the transaction around?
It does not matter to you if Amazon uses a dozen different couriers (including SpaceX) if necessary to get the goods to you within a reasonable, agreed upon time. That is Amazon's problem that they long ago, have figured out.

I'm not telling you how Greece functions at all, you are doing that. What I'm doing is, when I smell something bad, I check on it, just like you did with your controller. Then like you, I may report my findings.

Ok, I've responded to you. Now could you please respond to my questions/requests that remain unanswered from the last few days.

1.) Send me a link to the Greek law that prohibits, under threat of imprisonment, a person from posting a negative (not libelous) review on line.

2.) What exact Victron mandated wire specs does the Ancor wire I referenced not comply with?

3.) Where in any Victron document (not just on page 34) does Victron recommend the flaming isolator shown in the Youtube video that you provided?

There are a few more but I'll stop at 3, just to be fair.

Well I'm not sure that bashing Greece or DHL is going to help in finding the root cause of Mambo's problem. And I think there is a problem.

But I personally doubt the vibration argument, and am not convinced its just the wrong type of wire. In one post Mambo noted wires were warm to the touch - a red flag to me!

I'd suggest Mambo motors to Italy, France or Spain (or some other country not lumped into the same category as Greece, fairly or not) and have a half-decent marine electrician inspect the whole setup We are missing some info to be able to solve it remotely.

Insequent has a good idea, but finding a half decent marine electrician may prove to be an issue and motoring to another country could be expensive and full of bureaucratic challenges.

I would seriously consider doing this.

Make a plan as to where everything is going to go. Check it twice.

Go and buy from the local chandlery, Amazon, Alibaba or whomever.

100' of 10 AWG. Ancor marine wire, half red, half black.
50, 10 ga, # 8 or 10 ring terminals and some heat shrink.
50, 6mm2, #8 or 10 ring terminals
A quality crimper.
Terminal blocks of sufficient size and construction to be suitable.
Terminal block covers. If not available, make them from polycarbonate.
50 of the CMS recommended ferrules and the right crimper.
Three dozen or so nylon cable clamps of the right size, c/w the fastener.

Total cost of these goods in the US of A is about $400.

The quantities above hold enough surplus to have about 40% usable for training, duds, oopses etc. Hopefully Mambo42, being some kind of a pilot does not run out.

Once trained up which should take all of an hour or so, with everything turned off and cardboard taped over the PV cells, remove whatever is the least amount of wire possible on all 4 wires of all 5 controllers. Mark everything as to where it goes. Twice.

Mount the terminal blocks where you meticulously planned them to go and complete the wiring using best practices.

Even if you increased the cost by 5, after all this is Greece, at $2,000 USD it's still likely cheaper than the expenses to move to much of Italy, France or Spain.

Plus you might actually learn something.

Just don't paint any interior walls. Work only quietly at night, due to the PV's.

Whatever Mambo42 does the proper fix should be done quickly so nobody or no property, gets hurt.
If it was not done soon or even right away, what would his insurer think?

@Mambo42
You have a house with the boat moored out front?
You could offer a flight & room for a few days to a qualified electrician looking for a mini holiday in exchange.
Of course I am assuming a flight is cheaper than driving your boat to the electrician.

SteveK said:

@Mambo42
You have a house with the boat moored out front?
You could offer a flight & room for a few days to a qualified electrician looking for a mini holiday in exchange.
Of course I am assuming a flight is cheaper than driving your boat to the electrician.

Click to expand...

Nope, we bought the house, which in Greece means we agreed to the price and we signed an understanding. From that moment on the lawyers take over and that takes forever. Lord knows what the heck the are doing, but it takes forever. We 'agreed' last summer, and with a little bit of luck the payment and transfer of the deed will happen in December.
Then we will start applying for the building permits in order to renovate the place to our liking and current guess is that 2026 we will be able to use the house. That is then 3 years after we agreed to buy it.
I bought a house in the Netherlands many years ago and that took exactly 3 days. A week later I was redecorating and one month later the house was finished.
We renovated a house in Croatia, which took about 1 year, but luckily no permits were required and it was basically the same work as we have to do in Greece.

But, once finished we can have the boat right in front of our house and that is something we look forward to. Only hope I am still alive by the time the Greeks are finished.

luna said:

Insequent has a good idea, but finding a half decent marine electrician may prove to be an issue and motoring to another country could be expensive and full of bureaucratic challenges.

I would seriously consider doing this.

Make a plan as to where everything is going to go. Check it twice.

Go and buy from the local chandlery, Amazon, Alibaba or whomever.

100' of 10 AWG. Ancor marine wire, half red, half black.
50, 10 ga, # 8 or 10 ring terminals and some heat shrink.
50, 6mm2, #8 or 10 ring terminals
A quality crimper.
Terminal blocks of sufficient size and construction to be suitable.
Terminal block covers. If not available, make them from polycarbonate.
50 of the CMS recommended ferrules and the right crimper.
Three dozen or so nylon cable clamps of the right size, c/w the fastener.

Total cost of these goods in the US of A is about $400.

The quantities above hold enough surplus to have about 40% usable for training, duds, oopses etc. Hopefully Mambo42, being some kind of a pilot does not run out.

Once trained up which should take all of an hour or so, with everything turned off and cardboard taped over the PV cells, remove whatever is the least amount of wire possible on all 4 wires of all 5 controllers. Mark everything as to where it goes. Twice.

Mount the terminal blocks where you meticulously planned them to go and complete the wiring using best practices.

Even if you increased the cost by 5, after all this is Greece, at $2,000 USD it's still likely cheaper than the expenses to move to much of Italy, France or Spain.

Plus you might actually learn something.

Just don't paint any interior walls. Work only quietly at night, due to the PV's.

Whatever Mambo42 does the proper fix should be done quickly so nobody or no property, gets hurt.
If it was not done soon or even right away, what would his insurer think?

Click to expand...

Why would I want to move the boat to Italy ?
We were in Lefkas in May, Paleros Yacht Service worked on our Victron batteries there and they actually sent their Victron specialist to Italy since in Italy (Ancona area) there is no certified Victron specialist. That is the reality in this part of the world.

Today I spoke with 2 Victron dealers, one in the Netherlands and one in Croatia. One of them (won't say which one) offered me this ferrule / cable shoe. Then I called the other one and asked them if they agreed this was a correct cable shoe / ferrule. They replied: NO, this ferrule cannot be used.
Then I mailed with Victron in the Netherlands, asked them which one of the dealers was correct...........am still waiting for an answer.
So, if Victron dealers don't even know what to use, who are we, just ordinary mortals, to think that we know it all ?

luna said:

So now you admit that DHL has a presence on many of the Greek Islands.

Click to expand...

That is not what I said. I said that DHL has a presence on many islands...............on paper. In reality they don't have a presence on the islands. Many offices have been closed and they cut deals with other courier services since that time, however those courier services don't want to work with DHL.
Please read before you react, am not writing a reply for nothing.

When did I advocate a move to Italy or anywhere? I said fix it yourself, without the need to move.

I would use whatever shoe Victron recommends.

luna said:

When did I advocate a move to Italy or anywhere? I said fix it yourself, without the need to move.

I would use whatever shoe Victron recommends.

Click to expand...

So which one would that be ?
The dealer who advised me this ferrule or the dealer who said I cannot use this ferrule ?
Or should I wait for Victron head office to give me the verdict ?
You still think this is absolutely normal that a company functions like this ? And when you follow the wrong advice all of a sudden it is your mistake ?
Am sorry, the company is Dutch, I am Dutch, but this is not the way we work in the Netherlands. We don't work with Gotcha moments installed in our daily business life. When we f*ck up as a company we admit it, change it, improve it and move on. The responsibility avoiding tactics are not what we do in the Netherlands.
We are a small country, but we are proud of the quality we deliver. That is why Feadship, Oceanco, Heesen, Philips, Shell, Unilever, ASML became world players.
Philips went down the drain once they started delivering mediocre quality, but were still asking high prices. Victron is well on its way to follow them down the drain if they continue this policy of avoiding responsibility for poor design.

The dealer is not Victron. I'd wait for Victron's response.
If Victron says you are on your own, I would use the ferrule that CMS said worked on the 10 ga. wire. CMS is reliable.


I would also use whatever wire Victron specifies. That reminds me, among other things you were going to advise as to what spec. mandated by Victron the Ancor wire fails to meet. How long do I have to wait?

I agree with the DHL stuff. The map clearly indicates that most of these places are agents, not DHL.

Victron reps are offering solutions to your problem, but from this thread I have learned that it is designed to accept bare small strand wire. That will allow a compression by the proper torque. These shoes/ferrules cannot compress any more than the large strand wire you have been putting in there.

A while back I suggested terminating the large wire on a connection block, then taking a short small strand of the correct size (trimmed of strands since you cannot get exact) inserted into the victron to allow the torque as designed. A short smaller diameter will carry the current the long one is needed for.

How does it matter if the person who gives you your Amazon ordered stuff that DHL largely (save the last mile or so) delivered to the office that you are standing in, that happens to be in Backwater Greece, gets their paycheck from DHL or Joe's Courier Services?
DHL has their shingle on the wall outside. All the rest of the details are just noise.

Remember Amazon hired DHL, not you.