1979 36’ Albin Trawler

[Higher Ground]

Hello all. I am looking at a 1979 36’ Trawler that looks to be in great condition. I can pick this up for $15k. Owner says bottom needs painting, some repairs throughout but nothing major. I am brand new to these boats but it seems to be a good deal . Going to see the boat in person tomorrow so anything I should look out for would be greatly appreciated

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Social distancing and get a good survey.

 

[Higher Ground]

Will do thank you!

 

[CaptTom]

Look for water damage around windows and if there are teak decks, there too. I think most of those had teak (or some wood) all over the interior, so water stains are pretty noticeable. A small amount would probably be considered normal for that age, but anything large or peeling would mean work and $$. Those are pretty good hulls, and if it has Ford Lehmans those are considered fairly reliable. Also on any boat that age, look for half-assed owner "improvements" like bad wiring. These can be indicative of poor maintenance.

These are sought-after boats. There's a reason the price is so low. Find it, and then decide if it's worth it to you. Obviously don't seal the deal without a survey.

 

[STB]

What type of trawler?

In general, getting a 38' trawler for much less than $30k means that it is well into the project boat space. A lot of money can hide in a lot of places....bottom paint, running gear, shafts, engine coolers and exhausts, decks, windows, etc.

As a general rule of thumb, the only boats that are a bargain are the ones that meet your needs.

If you want a project boat because you like working on boats (or think you will), the $15k boat may be just for you. And, in that case, a "cruise ready" boat may be doubly bad for you -- too expensive and no fun.

If you want to get out on the water and start to cruise the coast, the "project boat" may be doubly bad for you'll end up working on it rather than cruising and, eventually, probably end up paying folks to work on it to get things done faster or that you don't want to do -- in which case it'll rapidly cost more than the "cruise ready" boat you could have bought.

Occasionally, health issues or someone's passing or some life event force a boat onto the market well below its normal listing price. But, these usually come with some element of risk. People often see their health and boat use, and with it boat maintenance, decline over time. Those selling estates don't know the boat. The upshot is that one boat being sold this way may be well maintained until recently and another may have been rotting for a while. And, the brightwork (varnish) doesn't always tell that story.

Maybe COVID-19 is scaring some folks into selling cheap right now. But, so far, when I look at the adverts, price seem stable and most people seem to be holding out. It isn't legal for brokers to show boats in many places now, anyway.

So, what to say? Maybe you got lucky and circumstances will allow you to get a good boat cheap. But, at least under normal circumstances, those bargains are somewhat rare and hard to validate.

If, upon first look, it seems like a bargain to you, that's great -- get a good survey and mechanical inspection. Then, and only then, will you know what you are looking at.

Don't avoid doing the inspection and survey because the boat is inexpensive to buy. That isn't the number you care about. What you want the surveyor and inspector to tell you is how much (time and.or money) it will cost to fix it.

A 38' single screw boat could, at a feasible extreme, legitimately, cost $100,000+ to restore. $2k/prop. $2k/shaft, $15k engine overhaul, $12k decks, $3k steering, $3k brightwork, $7.5k engine peripheral components and install. $5k electrical, $3k plumbing, $5k electronics, $35k house and hull paint, $3k swim step, $4k ground tackle and gear, $10k interior, $1k safety gear, $4k appliances and fixtures, etc

I don't want to scare you. I just want to make sure you work with a surveyor and inspector to give you an estimate of the "final package price" before you buy.

 

[Higher Ground]

Thank you for the detailed response . That gives me a lot to think about!

 

[FF]

Had one at our dock for that price a decade ago.

Very nicely outfitted for coastal or Bahamas cruising .The hassle was deck leaks had caused rust in the fuel tanks .The owner was an elderly gent that solved the problem for himself by being able to change over primary filters very quickly .

When RPM slowed he simply switched filter selection to the clean unit and chainged swaped out the plugged one.

I obtained a glass jar and cotton sock pre filter from decades ago for him, , but he felt the time/effort to install it was higher than the cost of a case of filters.,

Many "low cost" boats suffer from location, Florida, Gods waiting room, and cosmetics.

Some folks want to have a perfect boat , others are delighted with good enough , safe enough boat they can use.

 

[psneeld]

Don't believe a word from the PO....


Not because they are all liars...many may just not "realize" al the problems with these older Taiwan boats.


My 1988 Albin suffered badly from neglect.... rot, soft spots, bottom hydrolysis, electrical, etc.....stuff even the surveyor wasn't worried about or missed.


The price is no guarantee...as there can be good deals on really older boats that people just want to get rid of and they got their money's worth out of them.....


However, many POs that dump a lot of money into fixing things hope they get some back.... so too many"good deals" are often POs that know they didn't do the required maintenance and price accordingly.


Like FF pointed out though...even with a bunch of issues...you too can get your moneys worth out of it if you can manage to keep it running and not worry about a lot of nuisance issues that are not really unnsafe yet.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Get plenty of references on surveyors and don't go with low price. Don't compare the survey cost to the asking price of the boat. You are asking the condition of a potentially $50 - $60K boat because that's what you will have into it by the time you're done. Remember, Eyes Wide Open!!

 

[cdsailor]

I've improved a '79 Albin 36 for the last two years. You could be looking at a fantastic deal, or you could be looking at a boat that needs an easy 10k-20k worth of DIY work - or a whole lot more at yard rates. What you want out of the boat and what you want to put into the boat should factor into whether it's a good deal or not. What you can live with and what you can't/won't live with should also be taken into serious consideration. I'd recommend a survey from a well-known and trusted surveyor. If you're prepared to gamble and you have the skill to fix most/all issues, skip the survey and cross your fingers.

Honestly, even boats of this vintage listed at fair market prices and in "great" condition probably have several deferred maintenance items that need attention. What could that mean? Replace oil and transmission coolers; update raw water pump due to excessive tang wear on the original pump (Lehman 120 engine); replace cutlass bearing(s); inspect/replace damper plate (recommended at 2500 hrs), and so on. Not to discourage you, but to provide a realistic take. Unless a previous owner has addressed these items, they are likely (over)due for attention forty years later. Hopefully you'll find a thorough and up to date maintenance log that addresses these issues.

Others have given you some good info. Good luck and let us know. Pictures are always appreciated.

 

[GH41]

What type of trawler?

In general, getting a 38' trawler for much less than $30k means that it is well into the project boat space. A lot of money can hide in a lot of places....bottom paint, running gear, shafts, engine coolers and exhausts, decks, windows, etc.

As a general rule of thumb, the only boats that are a bargain are the ones that meet your needs.

If you want a project boat because you like working on boats (or think you will), the $15k boat may be just for you. And, in that case, a "cruise ready" boat may be doubly bad for you -- too expensive and no fun.

If you want to get out on the water and start to cruise the coast, the "project boat" may be doubly bad for you'll end up working on it rather than cruising and, eventually, probably end up paying folks to work on it to get things done faster or that you don't want to do -- in which case it'll rapidly cost more than the "cruise ready" boat you could have bought.

Occasionally, health issues or someone's passing or some life event force a boat onto the market well below its normal listing price. But, these usually come with some element of risk. People often see their health and boat use, and with it boat maintenance, decline over time. Those selling estates don't know the boat. The upshot is that one boat being sold this way may be well maintained until recently and another may have been rotting for a while. And, the brightwork (varnish) doesn't always tell that story.

Maybe COVID-19 is scaring some folks into selling cheap right now. But, so far, when I look at the adverts, price seem stable and most people seem to be holding out. It isn't legal for brokers to show boats in many places now, anyway.

So, what to say? Maybe you got lucky and circumstances will allow you to get a good boat cheap. But, at least under normal circumstances, those bargains are somewhat rare and hard to validate.

If, upon first look, it seems like a bargain to you, that's great -- get a good survey and mechanical inspection. Then, and only then, will you know what you are looking at.

Don't avoid doing the inspection and survey because the boat is inexpensive to buy. That isn't the number you care about. What you want the surveyor and inspector to tell you is how much (time and.or money) it will cost to fix it.

A 38' single screw boat could, at a feasible extreme, legitimately, cost $100,000+ to restore. $2k/prop. $2k/shaft, $15k engine overhaul, $12k decks, $3k steering, $3k brightwork, $7.5k engine peripheral components and install. $5k electrical, $3k plumbing, $5k electronics, $35k house and hull paint, $3k swim step, $4k ground tackle and gear, $10k interior, $1k safety gear, $4k appliances and fixtures, etc

I don't want to scare you. I just want to make sure you work with a surveyor and inspector to give you an estimate of the "final package price" before you buy.

Don't forget batteries, tanks, struts and through hulls.

 

[GH41]

If this is the one it may have some potential. It at least looks better than most 15K boats.https://syracuse.craigslist.org/boa/d/clayton-36-albin-trawler/7106347557.html

 

[cdsailor]

If this is the one it may have some potential. It at least looks better than most 15K boats.https://syracuse.craigslist.org/boa/d/clayton-36-albin-trawler/7106347557.html

Agreed. She's worth investigating.

 

[STB]

Does look nice.

 

[Higher Ground]

Yes this is the one. Seller has a marine survey from 2016 and he says it’s been in the water every year since. Survey looks ok no major defects.

 

[Higher Ground]

So all the boat launches are closed so we can’t water test because of COVID-19. Is it crazy to buy it without water testing

 

[STB]

That's reassuring. But, get your own, and engine inspection.

Seller's surveys are often insurance surveys done primarily to assess broad-stroke valuation and risk in apparent condition.

They are not usually done to sort out system lifetimes, maintenance issues, etc. They may be done in water with no inspection of running gear, struts, cutlass bearings, props, thru-hulls, paint, etc. Or, they may assess based upon 3rd party diver reports, which by nature of being in water are less good.

Having said that northern boats are pulled much if the year, so even most insurance surveys are out of water.

They can also be from a previous sale or sale attempt. If so, you can try to find and call the PPO for information. They've been really helpful to me with my current boat, even post-sale. They have a decade plus of history vs 2 years for the PO.

Also 2016 is 4 years ago -- much can change in 4 years.

Again, looks like a nice boat -- just do your due diligence.

 

[psneeld]

I can show you a pretty good survey and I have spent 8 years just keeping it running, a few upgrades, some MAJOR repairs...probably $30,000 worth of materials, much at employee prices. All the labor was mine, if not, it could have run another $50,000 or so.

My boat cost in the upper range of project boats or the lower end of the sorta taken care of ones.

The good news it has cruised 20,000 miles with only a few breakdowns.

So be forewarned, but not scared off.

 

[STB]

Well, even with it on blocks, you may be allowed to start the engine (use a hose for water), move levers and watch the cables move the controls, shift gears and watch the prop spin, spin the wheel stop-to-stop and watch the rudder move back and forth, check the bottom, check the cutlass bearing, spin the props and watch the shaft by hand, check appliances, check batteries , and check a bunch of other things.

Obviously you can't run the engines long, advance the throttles much, need to be careful about killing people walking by with the props, etc. So, you won't be able to rule out clogged up coolers, bad impellers or pumps, internal leaks that aren't catastrophic, etc.

But, there are still a lot of inspections you can do to limit risk.

 

[GH41]

Yes this is the one. Seller has a marine survey from 2016 and he says it’s been in the water every year since. Survey looks ok no major defects.

The boat doesn't appear to be documented. Looks like state registration numbers on the flybridge. How will you find out if there are any liens against her? Worst case scenario you buy the boat a discover you can't move it because the PO owes 2 years back rent to the marina and the tax man. Have you looked into insurance availability and expense? Most marinas require a GL policy and it's hard to insure older boats. Do you know what dockage/storage will cost? A 4 year old survey isn't worth the paper it's written on and I am not sure the cost of a new one is worth it in this case. You may be better off assuming everything is in bad shape and go from there. In other words a worst case scenario. Can you afford the worst case scenario expense? You don't have to have a perfect boat but it needs to be safe and dependable. Your biggest problem IMO is at the asking price it won't last long. These boats are snapped up by dreamers who take 2 years to figure out they made a mistake and another 2 to sell it. Reducing the price from 30 to 15K should tell you something. Remember what they say about gambling... Don't do it if you cannot afford to loose. Please consider my comments tough love.

 

[Higher Ground]

Thank you everyone for the info. So this is the deal . Seller is selling as is where is for the 15k. If he doesn’t sell it by may 1st he’s keeping it. I am ok with the risk I suppose but am I crazy ?

 

[cdsailor]

Thank you everyone for the info. So this is the deal . Seller is selling as is where is for the 15k. If he doesn’t sell it by may 1st he’s keeping it. I am ok with the risk I suppose but am I crazy ?

Worst case scenario, can you afford a 15k loss (plus storage and other fees)? If you can, then go for it. If it turns out to be a decent buy with solid systems but still needs 10-20k of work, can you absorb that? If so, then go for it.

If I were in your shoes, I'd run the engine(s) on the hard and give her a thorough going over. If major systems were functional and checked out, I'd go for it.

Just my opinion, though. And opinions certainly vary.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

That is the exact same boat as mine, for about half what I paid for mine. I have no idea what the fariman get home diesel is or how it is installed. With the F.L. with those low hours I doubt if you will ever need it anyway.

Like the others have said, it looks good and with due diligence you will have a nice boat.

One expensive potential area of concern is the fuel tanks. They are cold rolled steel and most have already failed by 35 years. If yours have not been replaced better check them out very closely. You could be looking at $20,000 to replace them.

Otherwise, I love my Albin and would buy another one just like it.

Go For It,

pete

 

[CaptTom]

Worst case scenario, can you afford a 15k loss (plus storage and other fees)? If you can, then go for it. If it turns out to be a decent buy with solid systems but still needs 10-20k of work, can you absorb that? If so, then go for it.

If I were in your shoes, I'd run the engine(s) on the hard and give her a thorough going over. If major systems were functional and checked out, I'd go for it.

Just my opinion, though. And opinions certainly vary.

Mine too.

IF your casual inspection checks out, assuming you put $20K more into it, you have a nice boat that was a good deal at $35K. That 20K estimate is a wild guess, but assumes you do most of the work yourself. If you start hiring out the work, the sky is the limit.

Fuel tanks and motor would be the two biggest likely expenses, assuming you don't see anything else wrong. You should insist on running the motor, anyway. A rebuild could fit in the budget, but a total replacement could be cost-prohibitive if tanks or other expensive items need to be done.

 

[GH41]

Thank you everyone for the info. So this is the deal . Seller is selling as is where is for the 15k. If he doesn’t sell it by may 1st he’s keeping it. I am ok with the risk I suppose but am I crazy ?

Sounds like the owner is blowing smoke up your ass to me. The boat will be worth less on May 1st than it is today if for no other reason than he owes another months storage. He is trying to paint you into a corner. Crazy has nothing to do with the deal. Foolishness does. If you can afford to be foolish go for it.

 

[rgano]

thank you everyone for the info. So this is the deal . Seller is selling as is where is for the 15k. If he doesn’t sell it by may 1st he’s keeping it. I am ok with the risk i suppose but am i crazy ?

run!!!!

 

[STB]

Thank you everyone for the info. So this is the deal . Seller is selling as is where is for the 15k. If he doesn’t sell it by may 1st he’s keeping it. I am ok with the risk I suppose but am I crazy ?

Gut check. Does that story seem plausible to you?

It doesn't to me unless he's got $15k or rent to pay -- or he'll be forced to live in it!

 

[Greatlaker221]

I have a 1980 Hershine 37, a slightly modified version of the Albin 36. Mine was in bad shape. Paid less than 15K and to date have over 70K in it. Labor was DIY.

After 4 years the major items I repaired were: rebuild transmission, repaint FL120, rebuild fuel injection pump, added a new bow thruster, new windlass, new holding tank, new fuel tanks, new water tanks, New windows and several walls rebuilt, new oven, sink and counter, and finally new electronics.

This TF helped a lot! Obviously boat work is my hobby and I like doing the work and not all was necessary. Resale will never equal investment. Now I have an almost new classic trawler that can travel more hours than I can. Already logged 2500NM. No breakdowns. Plan to loop soon. Popular design, solid motor. Not too bad on slip fees.

Your pictures look good, well maintained as far as one can see. The earlier posts do a great job describing what to look out for. You can do a little at a time, the PO of my boat did little maintenance in 10 years and it was still functional.

 

[STB]

I have no idea what the fariman get home diesel is or how it is installed.

That was a package called the "Trawler Hauler" that was installed in some Albin and other single screws of about that size in the very early 1980s.

It had a hydraulic piston pump mechanically driven directly by the genset's motor. The pump drove a hydraulic motor, which was connected to a multi-belt pulley. The system also had some type of cooler for the hydraulic fluid. In the event of main engine failure, the genset was stopped, and belts (maybe 2 or 3) were looped from the pulley on the hydraulic motor to pulleys installed on the drive shaft.

At the helm, there was a standard morse control. It ran by the usual cable down to the pump where it operated some type of internal dual-port (forward and reverse) swash plate to control the direction and output of the fluid and, with it, of the pulley's motion.

As far as Farymann is concerned, they are, or maybe were, a German small motor manufacturer. Somehow I think of them like a German Kubota, but that may not be accurate.

The system could be put on Farymann gensets above a certain size which I don't remember. But, they were often put on what I'd call a physically small gensets for the era. I think they got 6kw but were often only 12hp motors. I think some (not many, I never saw one) where actually pull start vs electric starters!

At any rate, I really liked the system in principle, because it saves all of the inefficiency of going to an electric motor, staying mechanical the whole way; saves the need for additional running gear, by attaching to the existing shaft; allows the generator to be put anywhere and still power the shaft by using hydraulic hoses to the hydraulic pump and belts from there; and provides power and directional control, even though there is no transmission and the genset it turning one way and at a constant speed.

Piston hydraulic pumps are pretty bullet proof as are hydraulic motors. With hose and belt maintenance, it seemed really flexible and robust.

Having said that, I never buy into the get-home motor thing. It may be a comment on my piloting, or my mechanicing, or both, but if I'm down an engine, it is probably because I hit or wrapped something and messed up the prop, shaft, strut, or prop, etc. And, if the problem is along that path, a get-home motor (without its own get-home running gear) won't help.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I definitely agree with gkesden. Probably the main argument point on twin engines is the get home aspect. If you hit something and tear up your shaft, rudder or prop, chances are good you have damaged both of them in a twin setup. An increased risk factor is that on a single, the running gear is more protected than in the typical twin setup.

The other reason engines stop running is fuel. If one engine is polluted by bad fuel, chances are that the other one is also disabled. Same for your genny and crossover appliances for mechanically reactivating the shaft and prop.

Shoot, I didn't want to get into the single vs twin argument but I have always been curious about a belt or hydraulic system run off the genny.

Bottom line. Getting home on your own power is over rated. It's not really worth the trouble for most boaters to own and maintain twins where a single will do.

Buy some towing insurance and stop worrying.

pete