What do you think the cost of sailing 15000 miles is in a catamaran vs an up to 60feet trawler

[Foilmagnet]

The setup in the Trawler will be single engine with a get home.
Speed max 9knots but trawling at 6 knots
Engine will hopefully be a gardner or lugger v6. Get home.... What ever there is in it
Full displacement hull.
size from 46 feet to max 60 in the trawler I know it is wish full thinking to find a v6 gardner in a 60feet trawler. Well in almost any boat from after 1998.
Age no more than 25 years of the trawler
The cat will be a sail cat. min 40 feet and max 47 feet.
Age no more than 20 years of the sailcat.

Both used in hmmm ready to sail shape. What ever that means.

 

[Foilmagnet]

I am not so much thinking in fuel cost but service and repair cost. I have a feeling from all i read and seen that a sailboat is way more expensive in the long run. But i am often wrong so why not now

 

[Mac2]

Never been a sailor, but I would think the costs would be similar depending on where you plan to cruise. In the PNW the sailboats I see are mostly motoring, so costs would be the same. If somewhere that you can mostly sail, then you will be using those sheet thingamabobs, so those would be the wear items vs mechanical's. I don't know those costs. Your true cost will depend on your capabilities.

 

[PierreR]

Hard to say because rarely will you find a trawler that is not equipped with a lot more creature comforts that are expensive to fix. Similarly equipped and no fuel considerations, the trawler wins hands down because it only has one rugged propulsion system and the sailboat has one rugged and one more vulnerable to the elements.

 

[O C Diver]

Think you need to narrow your trawler boat selection. My 45' trawler would cruise at 6 knots at 5 MPG. 7 knots was 3.5 MPG. 8 knots was under 2MPG. And it wouldn't reach 9 knots with the 135 HP John Deere. The displacement on a 60' trawler would be more than double and require a bigger motor than you're anticipating to reach 9 knots.

Assuming a 2 MPG cruise for 15,000 miles equals 7,500 gallons. Assuming $5 per gallon, that equals $37,500. I would expect to do better, but that's a SWAG. Now all you need is the half million plus plus plus to buy the boat.

Ted

 

[tiltrider1]

With a trawler you have three real expenses. Fuel, engine depletion and boat depreciation. Most likely you won’t need to rebuild the engines meaning you will most likely only need to deal with boat depreciation.

With the cat you will have two real expenses. Sails depletion and boat depreciation.

The depreciation cost is going to favor the lower capitalized boat. Meaning which ever boat costs you less to purchase and outfit will have the lowest depreciation cost.

This leaves us comparing fuel to sails. An impossible task without knowing your intended duration and distance. Shorter duration longer distance favors the sails. The opposite favors fuel.

 

[mvweebles]

Here are some real world numbers from folks who have significant passages on sail and power. Bottom line is the long term costs are roughly the same. Sure, there are scenarios where Sail can be a lot cheaper, but for the most part, you chose sail because you love to sail, not because it's cheaper.

https://www.bumfuzzle.com/trawler-vs-sail/

I cannot find the link, but Steve Dashew have a gazillion open ocean miles on both sail and power. They summarize the costs are a wash when you factor in sails, rigging, etc.

I hope I get this right, but TF'er LarryM circumnavigated under sail, and they did a very long run through the Panama Canal on a KK42. His costs were roughly the same.

Good luck with whatever you decide -

Peter

 

[long-cours.62]

With a trawler you have three real expenses. Fuel, engine depletion and boat depreciation. Most likely you won’t need to rebuild the engines meaning you will most likely only need to deal with boat depreciation.

With the cat you will have two real expenses. Sails depletion and boat depreciation.

The depreciation cost is going to favor the lower capitalized boat. Meaning which ever boat costs you less to purchase and outfit will have the lowest depreciation cost.

This leaves us comparing fuel to sails. An impossible task without knowing your intended duration and distance. Shorter duration longer distance favors the sails. The opposite favors fuel.

For the cat you will also have engine dépréciation, if you double look at the engine hour on the cat for sale you will be surprises.And you have also the rigging (running and standing one)we do the balance when we built our Long-Cours 62 24 year ago...and we décide to stay à 'motor boat' and don't fit the rigging to became à motor sailor.

 

[long-cours.62]

"Passagemaker" cherchez l'erreur ! - Trawler long-cours

Passage maker : cherchez l’erreur ! En 1993, après avoir passé prés de trois ans au Vietnam pour construire notre « motor sailor » « Oaristys », nous savourons notre longue escale à Hong Kong. OARISTYS 18,26m HT 17,40m x 5,25m x 1,50/3,70m 34T Durant...

www.long-cours62.com

With the Long-Cours62" at 6.6kts our consumption was 0.61lt per nm
it means around 6.2 nm per us gallon.
for 15000nm 9150 lt or 2417 gallons ( someone said 5$us per gallon) 12085$us.
If the catamaran will be sold with sails in good shape you don't need to buy new one for 15000nm
For example a main sail for a Lagoon 45 (81m2) could be ( probably Chinese maker )around 9700€ or 10789$us...

 

[ranger58sb]

The "cost" of sailing -- I mean with mast, sails, rigging, sheets, etc. -- should also include the physical effort necessary to make the boat go where you want it. I count our time and effort as important factors, lower being better.

Power = turn the key(s), drive the boat.
Sail = turn the key, get off the dock, wrestle with the sails/sheets, reef from time to time, etc...

Ditto cost of time and effort involved in maintenance and upkeep, of course, but I think folks have said those are often a wash...

-Chris

 

[slowgoesit]

Boat: Beebe Passagemaker, 50' registered length, Overall length 62', 5.5' draft, 16.5' beam, full up weight (full fuel/water, etc) 90,000 lbs
Fuel capacity: 2,100 gallons (we were never full up for the trip, generally filled up to no more than 3/4 full)
Power: Single Gardner 8LXB w/ get home capability. Hundested 36" CPP
Trip: From Sep 2023 to April 2024. Seattle, Washington State to Fort Myers, Florida
Average speed: 7kts
Total days of trip: 233
Number of days actually underway: 89
Nautical miles traveled: 6,422
Fuel burned 2937: gallons, at an average cost of $4.96/ U.S gallon
Average nmpg: 2.19
Repair costs: $1,779.32, of which $669.94 was repair of refrigeration
Maintenance costs: $1,540.67

Maintenance costs were oil changes, bottom cleanings, full wash and wax.
Repair costs included cost of two pumps taken out of stores to replace failed pumps.

Our boat is similar to what you are talking about. We never had a maintenance or repair issue that was an absolute show stopper. Even the refrigeration would have been worked around, since we had a large ice chest two freezers, and an ice maker which could have kept food cold for a long trip.
Zero issues with the propulsion system itself (Gardner and CPP). We did have some issues with the auxiliary engine that ran the generator and/or get home, but that was troubleshot/fixed out of on board resources (we carry a LOT of spares) It turned out to be two items that were simple fixes . . . . but FINDING the problems tool way longer!

Hope this helps!

 

[PierreR]

The catamaran has TWO power systems to depreciate and maintain. The engine propulsions system and the sails/rigging system.
I have had both sail boats and the current trawler. Before owning a larger boat and coming from sail a big point of mine was fuel burn and those associated costs. After 5,000 miles in the trawler I have increased cruising speed a bit. The engines are happier, I am happier and I don't give the north end of a southbound rat how much I am burning. Dockage for me is more than fuel.

 

[PierreR]

In my honest opinion. The perception vs reality of the actual costs of sailboat vs trawler are borne out in the number of derelict sailboats vs the number of derelict power boats.
The number of power boats outnumber sailboats but every yard seems to have more sailboats on the hard than powerboats. Deferred maintenance is the likely cause and skews the real numbers?

 

[DDW]

Factors too vague to quantify (like purchase cost, resale, and regret on the 'investment') probably wash out other differences. I own both a cruising sailboat and a cruising trawler, and have spent more on sails than on fuel by a significant margin.

 

[Snapdragon III]

Where are you planning on going? Over what time frame? Seattle to SE Alaska for the next 5 Summers is a different boat requirement than Florida to Australia. Will you be on the boat full time? Anchored out all the time? If you are using the boat seasonally like I do, moorage is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier in most places for a trawler than a cat, and will make a big difference in the cost. What's the approximate budget you are thinking for the initial purchase? How much maintenance work are you willing and able to do? If you are willing to do the considerable work that it takes to keep a Steel trawler in nice shape, an ocean crossing trawler gets a lot cheaper in most cases. Tell us more about your plans and dreams, and we can all be a lot more helpful. Narrow it down a little bit and you will have 20 guys scouring the world trying to find you the perfect boat.

 

[ofer]

I am not so much thinking in fuel cost but service and repair cost.

op said he doesn't care about fuel costs. how can that not be included in the overall consideration? oh wait maybe he has a fuel card that's paid by a third party...in that case trawler for sure.

 

[Hippocampus]

The "cost" of sailing -- I mean with mast, sails, rigging, sheets, etc. -- should also include the physical effort necessary to make the boat go where you want it. I count our time and effort as important factors, lower being better.

Power = turn the key(s), drive the boat.
Sail = turn the key, get off the dock, wrestle with the sails/sheets, reef from time to time, etc...

Ditto cost of time and effort involved in maintenance and upkeep, of course, but I think folks have said those are often a wash...

-Chris

This is misinformation. My last sailboat had powered winches, all running rigging brought aft. A wind vane to steer and an autopilot much more sophisticated than in my trawler.

I sailed tens and tens of thousands of miles on her. Except for violent weather all watches were one up. Including my very petite wife. Boat steered herself 95%+ of the time. You sat either in the cockpit or under the hard dodger and pushed buttons or toggles on the AP remote. MFDs at the helm, under the dodger and at the nav station. No running around to keep a diligent watch or sail the ship.

Know multiple couples continuing to do international travel well into their eighties on sail. They time out for the same reasons as land dwellers. Catastrophic illness, financial or family issues or getting burnt out and wanting to do something else with their time. Would assume that those reasons would be the same on power just like sail or land or RV.

My trawler has two sets of stairs down below and another set to the pilot house and get a ladder to the flybridge. My prior sail had three steps at the companionway. That was it. The trawler is much harder to move around in for old beat up knees. Engine access (under the saloon is much more difficult than it was on the sailboat.

 

[Hippocampus]

Few people have traveled extensively. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gone Newport to Bermuda without touching a sheet once you get east of the Gulf Stream. In the trades it blows from the same direction with only occasional variations in speeds. You trim out of boredom in the tropics. Now with auto tack on the AP even going up wind isn’t a hassle. The main takes care of itself and shifting sheets ain’t a biggy with powered winches. Cruising is a very different thing than daysailing. Coastal you’re constantly varying heading. Traffic, depths and land contours require it on both sail and power. . On passage that’s a rare occurrence. Same in many cruising grounds like the eastern Caribbean.

Found doing direct visual and temp engine checks much more physically demanding than cruising on sail.

 

[PierreR]

Hippo, my wife could not get around on a NT 42 30 years ago when we were still sailing.

 

[ranger58sb]

This is misinformation. My last sailboat had powered winches, all running rigging brought aft. A wind vane to steer and an autopilot much more sophisticated than in my trawler.

Fair enough. But many don't have powered winches, though... and in any case, messing with sail trim -- in addition to just steering -- hits my "too much work" button. And work, to me, is a cost factor.

-Chris

 

[Taras]

FYI, insurance companies are requiring that the standing rigging be replaced every 10 years. This is a substantial cost which must be calculated in in addition to the costly sails which must be replaced.

 

[DDW]

Perhaps a few require that, most don't. Some are replace on inspection, if the surveyor requires it. Standing rigging typically lasts 20+ years. And then there are sailboats (like mine) with no standing rigging at all.

 

[Hippocampus]

Generally get 8-10years out of 1by19 wire. Rod may need terminals replaced at that point but generally lasts longer. This is for Bluewater with much more use and failure not an option. Most authorities are in agreement on this. Coastal can be decades.

Sails are like motors. You can get an engine rated for continuous use at full power or one rated for a few hours every day. You can get one modified to produce the most horsepower out of that block or not.

Racing sails are trashed in a short amount of time. Very high tech, light but not durable at all. As tech advances you may trash a whole suit of functional sails to remain competitive. Costs are ridiculous.

Coastal cruising sails are built to a price point. Not a problem as hours in use (just like fuel burnt) is modest and failure just means you power back to shore.

Bluewater cruising sails aren’t built to a price point and built to be as durable as possible as there’s little room to store a whole new suit of sails. You don’t carry enough fuel to return to shore.

This generally means multiple duplication of stitching with high tech thread, additional UV protection, fabrics with little creep or stretch to preserve shape, and heavier cloth. Often several ounces heavier. The same applies to rope. Lines are stronger, durable with less stretch/creep and often double the costs of what’s used coastally. Costs aren’t only dependent upon service life but what you replace it with. Service life depends on use. In 10 years my three primary sails were not replaced (geneoa,solent and main). I was content to get to 70-80% of hull speed and not stress my sails unduly. The .next owner didn’t either as he is coastal. If ocean they would be. Spinnaker and code light air halyards and running rigging was not replaced by me or next owner. I replaced my Genoa sheets and main halyard but not my other sheets or halyards for,roller,furling sails. Everything is spectra/dyneema with covers for UV and halyards with additional covers at common chafe points. Rigging an ocean boat is commonly twice or more than rigging a coastal sailboat. Yes it is a significant expense and a yearly visit to a sail loft for wash and repair.

With any cruising boat you spend money in big lumps. Some years my costs were minimal. Nothing but routine maintenance. But other years brutal. Believe that’s the same sail or power. Believe costs are entirely dependent upon use duration and type of use.

I sailed ocean and coastal. I powered only coastal and rare near shore. Those use patterns are entirely different. But I know I haven’t seen a cruising bluewater sail boat built in the last 10-15 years that didn’t have similar infill for creature comforts and similar tech/mechanical advantages to make long distance cruising require equal or less work than equivalent power. The few power I saw was $1m and up. Sail 3/4m and up out the door for initial purchase. In general ocean going power is at least one and a half times more expensive at initial purchase doing apples to apples. Also commonly larger so higher berthing costs.

Yes you see home built small steel and wood crossing oceans and cruising in sail. There’s nothing comparable in power. But end of day I think costs and work involved are nearly the same for both for equal safety and comfort . Perhaps a bit higher for power.

I further know all these boats are full displacement so there’s virtually no difference in speed. That’s determined by LWL. Gentleman don’t go to weather so neither always follow the rhumb line all the time. Both divert for weather. Both pay attention to the pilot so leave at similar times. Going to weather ain’t fun in power or sail. My sailboat did around 30 degrees. Life on a big slant is more difficult for activities of daily living. But pounding isn’t fun either so most people don’t go directly into the wind waves (swells don’t matter much usually). So passage times are similar power and sail. It’s not point in a straight line for either.