2nd start of fire in electrical equipment, what are your experiences ?

[mvweebles]

How is Victron to know how far away things are in your situation?

Do you think 7-1/2-feet limit is reasonable for an average solar install? At 3% voltage drop, that's the net effect of the terminal size limits for the xxx/20 and xxx/50 MPPTs. How many Vans, RVs or Boats do you think can fit an MPPT within 7-8 feet of the panels? Or am I missing something?

 

[Mambo42]

How is Victron to know how far away things are in your situation?

Perhaps by thinking ?
Perhaps asking companies that do the installations what are the distances they normally work with ?

I am starting to wonder why you are defending Victron at all cost, even to the point where you ask a question: 'how is Victron to know something'.
In any normal company you just don't produce something, you ask customer feed back and you act on that. If customers tell you they need A, you don't stick up your middle finger and say: 'well, you are going to get B, deal with it'.

 

[luna]

So you have nothing Official or in writing, the min. of 5 mm2 is just hearsay. Fine, thanks.

 

[Mambo42]

So you have nothing Official or in writing, the min. of 5 mm2 is just hearsay. Fine, thanks.

Hear say ?
When your car dealer tells you how to maintain your car, you will simply tell them: 'forget it, I am not doing that, it is just hear say ?'

Like I said, this is what Victron prescribes to all their distributors and installers in Europe. However, you can also look on page 23 of the manual written by the founder of Victron. You will find the same number there.
You are welcome..

 

[SteveK]

The new anchor thread

All the answers were given.
Blue Loctite, corrected size wire, correct size shoe/ferrell into the victron. An oversized wire needs to be reduced to the correct size inside a ferrell that is the correct size and then inserted into the victron with threads coated in blue Loctite.
.
.
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....................

 

[luna]

I agree it might solve Mambos loosening issue, but it still only gets you 7-1/2' away unless you can tolerate a larger voltage drop.

Research a bit better? Right back at you - Victron is silent on voltage drop, but Schneider seeks less than 3%.

Mambo - appears Victron is a sacred cow. They can do no wrong. Any issue must be operator error.

Peter

Ok who was the grade schooler who ran amuck with their yellow crayon on the % voltage drop column? Not to worry, as an example in the 3rd row down this table indicates the MPPT 60 has an Imp (current max power) of 23.3, that would be in Amps, a Voltage drop of 3.42 in Volts and a Vmpp (Voltage max. power point ) of 104, that would be in Volts.

The Voltage drop would then calculate as 3.42/104 = 0.03288 or rounded and converted that's 3.29%. Low and behold through the yellow stuff I think I see 3.29.

Unless you are charging your batteries at 104 Volts, this must be on the solar input side of the controller.

Just think, if the voltage drop of 3.42 volts occurred on a 12 volt circuit that would be over 28%, not 3%.

Schneider appears not to care about voltage drop downstream from the controller either, unless you've got another table!

 

[luna]

Hear say ?
When your car dealer tells you how to maintain your car, you will simply tell them: 'forget it, I am not doing that, it is just hear say ?'

Like I said, this is what Victron prescribes to all their distributors and installers in Europe. However, you can also look on page 23 of the manual written by the founder of Victron. You will find the same number there.
You are welcome..

When I buy any car I ensure it comes with the manufacturer's published manual that defines in detail the service requirements, I don't rely on Dealer hearsay, as they have a vested interest in the service fees. Apparently you do rely on hearsay.

Victron on page 23 calls this Current/3 = cable size in mm2 a "rule of thumb for cables up to 5 meters in length. Fair enough.

On the same page is a more useful table that defines the Max. current for cable lengths in 5 meter increments starting at 5 meters and for cable diameters of 0.75 to 120 mm2. All based on a Voltage drop of 0.259 Volts. That, in a 12 Volt system is a 2.2% (not a 3%) Voltage drop. Wait a minute, who said Victron does not care about Voltage drop?

Why did you not review this table and then select a controller with large enough terminals to easily accept your chosen or the only available wire size? You picked the controllers.........right!

 

[ksanders]

That's your answer? Instead of a properly sized terminal, live with a 10% voltage drop? Go through all the issues of an install and just put on the final 10% because the OEM chose undersized terminals? Add an extra panel to make up for the voltage drop? Just live with extended charge times? All because the terminal is undersized?

I'm not very well schooled in this type of stuff so perhaps I'm out of line and I welcome and education. But I just don't see the beauty of Victron design - they already have a ton of boxes to make up a system. Now I have to add a terminal block or some other workaround to adjust for their undersized terminal connection. I hope I missed something because this really doesn't seem okay to me.

I can't comment on mambos loosening terminals, but shooting the messenger (Mambo) and ignoring what seems like a cheap-out design on a fairly expensive component doesn't strike me as the right answer.

Peter

Yes peter live with the 10% voltage drop.

your insistence on maintaining a 3% voltage drop is incorrect.

My friend, you know my history, I am schooled in this kind of stuff, and you are over engineering this.

10% is just fine.

Actually for a 30 amp circuit a professionel will not even consider the length. We will just use 10 AWG wire and be done with it. Same thing for a 50A circuit. We use 6 AWG and never look back.

 

[Insequent]

Mambo, could you please provide some additional info. From memory you installed 8 x 405Wp panels. You said you needed to buy 5 controllers, specifically the Victron 100/15 model.. Did you already have some, or is it 5 controllers and 8 panels. If so, then how are the panels wired? Are they in pairs? Serial or parallel?

I would like to know the panel's specification, particularly Voc and Isc). Attach a pic of specs if you can, or alternatively the panel brand and model number. What voltage is the battery bank they are charging? I think we need this info to be able to assist you.

 

[twistedtree]

Do you think 7-1/2-feet limit is reasonable for an average solar install? At 3% voltage drop, that's the net effect of the terminal size limits for the xxx/20 and xxx/50 MPPTs. How many Vans, RVs or Boats do you think can fit an MPPT within 7-8 feet of the panels? Or am I missing something?

Keep in mind that the 15A for an MPPT 100/15 is between the battery and the MPPT, and that typically isn't a very long distance. The corresponding current between the panels and the MPPT will be lower, with correspondingly higher voltage. That's the whole purpose of an MPPT controller. Often times the panel wiring is smaller gauge than the battery wires.

It would be interesting to know the specs on the panels that are attached to the failed controller. Note that it's the panel wiring connection that failed, not the battery connection.

 

[twistedtree]

To summarize....

- The correctly sized MPPTs weren't available, so a smaller model was used.

- The correct wire size wasn't available, so a larger size (though still in spec) was used

- The correct ferrules were not available, so none were used

- The installation manual clearly says that fine stranded wire must be used or the terminals will overheat, but medium stranded wires were used, presumably also because of availability

Yet all the focus is on why the MPPT design doesn't accommodate all the things done wrong in the installation, with no blame on the installation shortcuts? I get that all this stuff is hard to get or do in Greece, but own it. Don't blame it all on the product.

 

[Mambo42]

Mambo, could you please provide some additional info. From memory you installed 8 x 405Wp panels. You said you needed to buy 5 controllers, specifically the Victron 100/15 model.. Did you already have some, or is it 5 controllers and 8 panels. If so, then how are the panels wired? Are they in pairs? Serial or parallel?

I would like to know the panel's specification, particularly Voc and Isc). Attach a pic of specs if you can, or alternatively the panel brand and model number. What voltage is the battery bank they are charging? I think we need this info to be able to assist you.

The MPPT controllers were based on the set up location of the panels. I have 4 panels on a frame on the stern and they are divided into 2 groups of 2 panels, each with their own 100 / 30 MPPT controller.
Then I have 1 lone panel in a flat position at the end of the dinghy deck, this panel is always in position to produce power, so it has its own MPPT controller since the remaining panels are foldable.
2 of the foldable panels are on the port side, so they make one group with 1 MPPT controller and the last panel is on the stbd side, also foldable and has its own MPPT controller.
Thus I came to 5 MPPT controllers.

I wanted to have 5 x MPPT 100 / 30, but there were only 4 MPPT 100 / 30 available. The waiting time for the delivery of the 5th 100/30 was unknown (could be weeks according to the distributor), so I went with the 100 / 15 controller, which was sufficient for that 1 panel.
The panels are Trina Solar Vertex S with 405 Wp. Max Voltage is 34.4 V and max Amp is 11.77 Voc is 41.4 V.

Based on the 3 Amps per 1mm2 a 4 mm2 cable would be just on the edge. The 5 mm2 was not available and the 6 mm2 can handle 18 Amps, so should have been the safer cable.

 

[Mambo42]

To summarize....

- The correctly sized MPPTs weren't available, so a smaller model was used.

- The correct wire size wasn't available, so a larger size (though still in spec) was used

- The correct ferrules were not available, so none were used

- The installation manual clearly says that fine stranded wire must be used or the terminals will overheat, but medium stranded wires were used, presumably also because of availability

Yet all the focus is on why the MPPT design doesn't accommodate all the things done wrong in the installation, with no blame on the installation shortcuts? I get that all this stuff is hard to get or do in Greece, but own it. Don't blame it all on the product.

The MPPT 100 / 15 was connected to 1 panel only and the max amps were 12 for that panel, so the MPPT controller was large enough. I wanted a 100 / 30 for the simple reason that I would have been able to add one more panel and to have everything standardized.

The panel does 12 Amps maximum and that is the exact maximum for a 4 mm2 cable. However, the short circuit amps are 12.41, meaning the amps can go over 12 Amps, therefore the 4 mm2 was not an option.
As stated, the 5 mm2 cable is non standard in the EU, the design is aimed at the American market.

The connection block itself has an opening (for the cable) of 2.8 mm. A 6 mm2 cable is 2.76 mm. There is no possibility to add a ferrule to this cable and still fit it in the available space. The total will be more than 2.8 mm and will not fit.

The problem is not with the strands on the cable, the fire did not start because of not enough strands. The fire started because the tension of the connection was lost, thereby the cable lost contact with the connection block, resistance increased, temperature increased and the MPPT controller melted and would have burned.
The connection block does not grab individual cables, it is merely a flat, smooth surface that comes up and squeezes the cable against another smoot surface. There is no contact between the screw and the individual strands. I.o.w. the amount of strands has nothing to do with the capability to hold a cable in place. Temperatures in the cables were not high prior to the fire start, i.o.w. it is not the case that the temperatures are always high and therefore the connection block failed.

In the mean time I googled for connection block failures and as it turns out, more equipment has been suffering from this same problem. The connection blocks are (apparently) meant for 1 specific cable only and anything else will cause fires.
Here is one with an inverter

Multiplus ll burnt terminal block - VictronEnergy

community.victronenergy.com

and here is another one

https://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f218/victon-multiplus11-melted-terminal-connection-248633.html

and then we have this one

MPPT 150/ 70 caught fire - VictronEnergy

community.victronenergy.com

and then we have this one

The fun part is that the sales rep of Victron wrote to me that they almost never have any problems, but a quick search on google will give you quite a few fires which all have the same cause. And each time the reaction of Victron is: 'you used the wrong cable, torque setting was wrong etc.'

So many fires with the same connection blocks should be a sign something is wrong.

 

[Insequent]

Thanks for the clarification. For some reason i read, or misread, your posts as saying the controllers were all 100/15. I now understand that you have 4 x 100/30 controllers and 1 x 100/15 controller. The controller spec will be sufficient for group configurations you have, PROViDED that the battery bank is 24V.

In my system I also have 8 panels. I have 3 pairs of 2 x 345Wp in parallel, and one pair of 330Wp panels in parallel. Because my battery bank is 12v I needed to use 4 x 100/50 controllers. No issues.

One comment I could add is that you do need to allow some headroom to be confident the controller is not under spec. With my setup my mast (with radome and KVH dome) will partly shade one pair of panels whichever direction the bow is facing. So I ought never see the total rated capacity of the panels, 2730Wp. But I do, in relation to sum of max.PV (or peak) power And occasionally exceed it. I have observed up to 110% of rated panel output occurring in good atmospheric conditions. Those conditions can easily arise in summer when there has been some morning rain to remove dust and other particulates from the lower atmosphere.

 

[mvweebles]

Yet all the focus is on why the MPPT design doesn't accommodate all the things done wrong in the installation, with no blame on the installation shortcuts? I get that all this stuff is hard to get or do in Greece, but own it. Don't blame it all on the product.

Have you ever seen off-the-shelf fine stranded cable wirh MC4 connectors in the US let alone Europe (or Greece which apparently has its own flavor of supply chain struggles)? Why specify unobtanium as a requirement when there is so much off the shelf stuff available? That's not okay.

Victron is the only game in town these days. And to that end, the installer has little choice but to deal with whatever Victron decides works for Victron. But make no mistake. Victron sells a box of parts, not a solution. Perhaps this is intentional to force more people to professional installers. But the box of parts doesn't even integrate internally all that well - witness how quickly expansion slots for communication and interface ports are maxed out. While rarer these days, there is still Victron kit that requires a dongle (purchased separately of course).

In a world where tech is rapidly integrating, Victron has clearly set out a sell-another-box strategy. Makes it more flexible? Perhaps. But with all those connections, small wonder there aren't installation issues. It's built in.

 

[slowgoesit]

We installed our Solar panels in April of 2021. A total of 8-360 watt SilFab panels, each with it's own dedicated controller. We used 10 AWG tinned, Solar panel wiring with solar panel recommended connectors. All the terminals going into the Victron 100/30 charge controllers have crimped on fittings (Ferrules). The ones we used are readily available (see link below), but maybe not where OP is located.

We also installed DIN circuit breakers in a box both between the solar panels and the solar charge controllers, AND between the solar charge controllers and the battery bus. Our thought being that BOTH the solar panels, AND the battery bus could be considered "power sources".

Since reading the OP's post, I went to the boat and checked the wiring connections at the controllers (which used the below ferrules, crimped with the 4-way crimping tool . . . . installed over three years ago, not tightened since, and they are still tight . . . .

I don't believe the Victron solar charge controller is the culprit. I believe the wrong type and size of wiring was used. Just my 2 cents worth . . . .

https://www.amazon.com/Ferrule-Crimping-Tool-Kit-0-08-10mm%C2%B2/dp/B07PJK2VNT/ref=sr_1_4?crid=ZRYCQEU0A4YE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Jp-k7DcaewItsRjGCrCNTWppULyVfSJuZRhTegNis9I8o0t3iE3XN09GJuLSYLfaKmKciEc3U_N2u-NqolesoqNqcIs7_9cVIkQoT95plsKkG5mQf4JWcBWLV24eTx7y1eucpdvSmfCinc9JVa9Y0daAr3tqlH_S0pvtCLycKFAyjCfCsuXD8IKylXUqZupvAQRn8HCEuYJQEjMcJHkWNuCA22O3yV6U91jmR1fLoBtCCNH1TRqTGtRXnv-iyfgXSvhmkbOFTZc0f_zA-fQz9z6AXjAuoCQmRRIEgFeWeMY.MAjtqnTgmxE6rO2xMiRFMmAb9JkzaTm7K-TX5zk4oXo&dib_tag=se&keywords=amazon+ferrules+wire&qid=1722424392&sprefix=amazon+ferrules+wir%2Caps%2C375&sr=8-4

 

[mvweebles]

And each time the reaction of Victron is: 'you used the wrong cable, torque setting was wrong etc.'

So many fires with the same connection blocks should be a sign something is wrong.

Well, you gotta admit, it's extremely difficult to do it the way they say it needs to be done - they have a built in 'gotcha' for just about anything, no?

@slowgoesit (Scot) - thanks for the link on the ferrule terminal connectors. Will add to my kit. I will note that the Victron installation manual I read didnt mention these, only that fine-stranded wire should be used. I have to wonder if those terminal lugs are designed for ferrules.....or if that would be another 'gotcha' from Victron if there was an issue.

I have to say, I do wonder if something else was the root issue for OP. I've used these types of terminal lugs on all sorts of equipment for years and while it can be challenging to get the conductor in (and sometimes a stray strand wants to jump the fence), they seem to hold well once you get them tightened - even in residential applications where solid Romex is being used (in a way, sort of emulates a ferrule connector I suppose).

@twistedtree and @ksanders - I cannot express the respect I have for your electrical skills. I do not take them lightly, but Victron's sales strategy is to sell to whomever has a credit card. Their forum is full of issues on wire sizing - you'd think they'd "read the room" a bit. At least Schneider provides actional guidance on sizing.

Good discussion. I still think Victron is only the best because there is no one else. They could use some whoop-ass in the market. Someday.....

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Do you think 7-1/2-feet limit is reasonable for an average solar install? At 3% voltage drop, that's the net effect of the terminal size limits for the xxx/20 and xxx/50 MPPTs. How many Vans, RVs or Boats do you think can fit an MPPT within 7-8 feet of the panels? Or am I missing something?

Yes, there's one extra detail in there. Amps/volts on the panel side vs the battery side aren't the same.

In my install, at full output I only see about 10A on the solar side (at a little over 40 volts). On the battery side I can just about hit the 30A output limit of my 100/30 controllers, as the battery voltage is much lower than panel voltage (12V system). So the controllers go close to the batteries, but a longer run from the panels can be tolerated.

 

[Bmarler]

I was referring to the type of ferrule where you can crimp on the oversized wire, and there is a flat extension that will go into the terminal.
So, you get the benefit of the large wire gauge but still are able to fit in the terminal block.
When I did my solar install I put circuit breakers right next to the controllers. Breakers have larger openings for wire typically, and if smaller wire was required at the controller, it’s run would be very short. Much like adding a terminal strip to land on, but also providing a disconnect.
I used the 100/30 controllers, and wire gauge wasn’t an issue.
One more point to add, the voltage on the panels can be much higher than 12 volts. Mine run at 45 or so. This allows smaller wire from the panels, but large wire to the batteries.

Ahh, typing at the same time. Carry on, I’m out.

 

[ScottC]

Something else caught my eye in this discussion, Mambo42. You mentioned in an earlier post you paid a total of 60 thousand Euros for this project. Yikes! Is that a typo? If not, I would think you could have hired a single service company to design, propose, source, install AND guarantee a solution for you. It seems to me that an element of risk is introduced into the mix by you sourcing the components and then telling a company to install them.

Separately, I find myself wondering if the repeated extreme heating and cooling (perhaps due to wrong type of wire…) cause enough expansion and contraction to lead to loosening screws??? Just a wild guess. I am no electrician or engineer.

 

[luna]

I am unsure as to whether Victron recommends or allows the use of ferrules in the terminal block connections. I have read poster's comments that say yes and no, but I have not seen anything from Victron themselves other than the omission of any mention of a ferrule.

The use of ferrules could well have gained popularity amongst the installation industry simply because it's easier/quicker to do that rather than try to correctly and completely stuff a 6 mm2 (or 10 gauge for us AWG folks) conductor blindly into a 2.8 mm square opening which admittedly is tough to do as you need to reshape the strands from a round to almost a square shape.

As CMS demonstrated in his article linked upthread, using 10 gauge wire and a firmly crimped square shaped ferrule will fit.

Making things easy and quick does not make them correct.

Anybody got any written advice from Victron regarding the use of ferrules?

 

[luna]

@twistedtree and @ksanders - I cannot express the respect I have for your electrical skills. I do not take them lightly, but Victron's sales strategy is to sell to whomever has a credit card. Their forum is full of issues on wire sizing - you'd think they'd "read the room" a bit. At least Schneider provides actional guidance on sizing.

Good discussion. I still think Victron is only the best because there is no one else. They could use some whoop-ass in the market. Someday.....

Peter

Victron is not alone in the "sell to whomever has a credit card" strategy. They all, (Mastervolt, Outback, Schneider, Morning Star, etc.) do it. How is this wrong? Why should Victron not do it?

I have never even seen the Victron forum, but I bet you that the large majority of the burn victims never RTFM and then applied correctly what they read. As TT stated, "own it", it's likely not the equipment's fault.

Victron is far from being in a position to be "the best because there is no one else." There are lots of other quality solar system component suppliers that are in the market. To use them you may have to give up some of the often overly treasured abilities to have your phone report the status of the things down there.
But since when is it that going and actually seeing, hearing, smelling and feeling a working piece of electronic equipment such a bad thing?

Glad to see that you moved off of the 3% issue, progress!

 

[mvweebles]

I have never even seen the Victron forum, but I bet you that the large majority of the burn victims never RTFM and then applied correctly what they read.

I have none of Victron's products. I've never even touched one, ever.

For a guy who admittedly knows nothing about Victron, you sure have a lot of strong opinions on it.

I doubt that a larger retail outlet would allow their website to spew inaccuracies on an ongoing basis, all the while hoping to stay in business. Even in Greece.

Seriously? A guy who cruises the Med fulltime tells you he's in Greece and a store he's been to doesn't have a part in stock. And you think he's wrong because their website says its in stock?

Some folks are natural contrarians......

Peter

 

[lwarden]

These terminal blocks appear to be standard Phoenix Contact parts.

https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus/640/1704936.pdf

I've specified these terminal blocks many times on our PCB's. They are rated for bare wire or ferrules per the spec sheet. We always use ferrules for assembly for reasons I stated earlier in the thread. I've spent the last 35+ years building all sorts of medical, lab and consumer devices as well as automation. It's standard and professional practice to use ferrules when assembling machines.

My advice is to trim down the existing wires to the point where a proper 4-sided ferrule crimp can fit within the terminal block and move on. This approach will not loosen over time.

You all are way overthinking this....

 

[luna]

Where did I admit that I know nothing about Victron? I have no strong opinions or vested interests in anything Victron. You don't need to own or use a product to be able to see when someone is trashing the product for no reason other than a self serving one. It burnt up, can't be my fault, must be junk.

Same thing on the wire, Mambo42 repeatedly states that you can't get 5mm2 marine grade wire in Greece without buying a large roll holding way more than he needed.
Then when confronted with the fact that a large chandlery (among others) lists 10 gauge Ancor tinned marine wire (which by the way they call 5 mm2, 10 gauge is actually 5.26 mm2, so close enough) in multiple forms and colors on their website, that you buy in any length you want, the response changes to that they all lie all the time, none of the 10 stores has any stock ever and if you order it and pay for it first, after you wait multiple times the original delivery period, they steal your money. Really?

Do you actually think that the large chandlery is in the business of ripping it's customers? What a business model. How long do you think they will last? According to their website they have been a chandlery for 30 years. Maybe they are lying there as well or perhaps someone else is?

Call me a cynic if you want, but can't you see that the constant narrative is that everybody is wrong but Mambo42? How can that be?

 

[Gypsy Island]

Given that the shape of the terminals is four-side, to me the square of 2.8 mm is 7.84 mm2, so even with a ferrule of 0.2 mm wall thickness 2.6 mm square equates to 6.76 mm2.
With the correct ferrule and four-side crimping tool i can't see any difficulties except an incapable Installer.

 

[twistedtree]

The MPPT controllers were based on the set up location of the panels. I have 4 panels on a frame on the stern and they are divided into 2 groups of 2 panels, each with their own 100 / 30 MPPT controller.
Then I have 1 lone panel in a flat position at the end of the dinghy deck, this panel is always in position to produce power, so it has its own MPPT controller since the remaining panels are foldable.
2 of the foldable panels are on the port side, so they make one group with 1 MPPT controller and the last panel is on the stbd side, also foldable and has its own MPPT controller.
Thus I came to 5 MPPT controllers.

I wanted to have 5 x MPPT 100 / 30, but there were only 4 MPPT 100 / 30 available. The waiting time for the delivery of the 5th 100/30 was unknown (could be weeks according to the distributor), so I went with the 100 / 15 controller, which was sufficient for that 1 panel.
The panels are Trina Solar Vertex S with 405 Wp. Max Voltage is 34.4 V and max Amp is 11.77 Voc is 41.4 V.

Based on the 3 Amps per 1mm2 a 4 mm2 cable would be just on the edge. The 5 mm2 was not available and the 6 mm2 can handle 18 Amps, so should have been the safer cable.

What is the battery voltage? 12V or 24V? And where you have two panels on a controller, are the panels wired in series or parallel?

 

[Mambo42]

Something else caught my eye in this discussion, Mambo42. You mentioned in an earlier post you paid a total of 60 thousand Euros for this project. Yikes! Is that a typo? If not, I would think you could have hired a single service company to design, propose, source, install AND guarantee a solution for you. It seems to me that an element of risk is introduced into the mix by you sourcing the components and then telling a company to install them.

Separately, I find myself wondering if the repeated extreme heating and cooling (perhaps due to wrong type of wire…) cause enough expansion and contraction to lead to loosening screws??? Just a wild guess. I am no electrician or engineer.

Just the batteries alone were well over 18.000 euro. Add transport, formalities and the total went up to about 23.000. Then there is all the equipment itself, that added up to about 14.000 euro. The cables are top of the line, fire retardant and you pay for that, was about 5000 euro. The frame for the solar panels on the stern was also about 5000 euro. Then came the installation and all the smaller items, that totaled about 23.000 euro.
If I would add the time on the shore, the lift out etc, the total price would be even higher. In the 60.000 I wrote before the frame and the formalities were not included. So in reality it was even higher, 65.000 to 70.000, which I still is still worth the change that I had in mind, but I should not have to endure a fire twice because of a weak argument.

 

[Mambo42]

What is the battery voltage? 12V or 24V? And where you have two panels on a controller, are the panels wired in series or parallel?

Batteries are 7 x Victron LiFePO4 200 Ah at 24 V.

Some panels are wired in series, others are wired alone, so single panel to an MPPT controller.

 

[Mambo42]

Given that the shape of the terminals is four-side, to me the square of 2.8 mm is 7.84 mm2, so even with a ferrule of 0.2 mm wall thickness 2.6 mm square equates to 6.76 mm2.
With the correct ferrule and four-side crimping tool i can't see any difficulties except an incapable Installer.

The diameter of the space in the connection block is 2.8 mm. If you would square it up you would have 2.8 mm on all sides, but still a maximum of 2.8 mm
A 6 mm2 cable has a diameter of 2.76 mm, so you have 0.04 mm left for a ferrule and that means a very thin, but also perfect square squeeze. Then you have to try to get that in the hole when the MPPT controller is hanging in an awkward position. The moment you touch the sides of the opening the perfectly squeezed square is not going to be square anymore and then you will have a hard time getting that cable in.
I have googled for wire problems with connection blocks of Victron and the returns are staggering. Loads of people encounter the same problem and it is even on official Victron sites, so Victron definitely knows about it. They just don't seem to care.
In fact, in one case of a fire they quickly send a replacement MPPT controller while in their manual they clearly state you will loose warranty. So why send a new MPPT controller when you have the idea you did nothing wrong and the customer is to blame ?