34 Californian Floor Jack Supports

[twistedtree]

To address the vibration, would it be possible to reinforce the floor joints while the floor is jacked up into position, then remove the jacks and let the new joists carry the floor with load bearing down out at the sides of the hull as originally designed? It's clearly more work, but might be worth it in the long run. Or would that be logistically impossible?

 

[BruceK]

Is incorporating an engine mount feasible? It is a "well invented/perfected wheel",if they can support a vibrating engine they should support a deck. Lots available, auto and marine, must be one which adapts to the task.

 

[FlyWright]

To address the vibration, would it be possible to reinforce the floor joints while the floor is jacked up into position, then remove the jacks and let the new joists carry the floor with load bearing down out at the sides of the hull as originally designed? It's clearly more work, but might be worth it in the long run. Or would that be logistically impossible?

I don't have the skills, dollars or inclination to tackle a job like this. The "issue" does not even approach the severity required to replace structural members. I think the level of vibration has magnified through the internet beyond its actual level.

Is incorporating an engine mount feasible? It is a "well invented/perfected wheel",if they can support a vibrating engine they should support a deck. Lots available, auto and marine, must be one which adapts to the task.

Why not attenuate the vibrations?

GRAINGER APPROVED Vibration Isolator,720 Lb Max,1/2-13 - Cylindrical Vibration Isolators - 2NPD9|2NPD9 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Just one example.

Great thoughts. Might consider it if the Admiral objects to the boat's vibes. Who knows...she just might like it!

 

[Art]

Might consider it if the Admiral objects to the boat's vibes. Who knows...she just might like it!

OTDE just could be just around the corner...


OMG - Read the first paragraph in Eric's post #35 below... obviously regarding your statement quoted above . "Lacks stiffness", "move up and down (vibrate)", "stiff rod is put vertically"! Plainly OTDE type o' stuff - LOL

 

[Nomad Willy]

If The boat lacks stiffness in it's hull bottom the engine will make the bottom move up and down (vibrate) and if a stiff rod is put vertically between the floor and the bottom the vibration of the engine and bottom will be felt on the floor. Not rocket stuff.

The original problem was floor sagging but now it seems to be floor vibration. Since floor stiffness isn't an issue a spring loaded rod should almost eliminate the vibration. Rubber pads may be simple but will probably only reduce vibration a small amount and could even amplify the vibes if there was resonance involved. The longer the spring the better but a small car valve spring could provide a workable load. A scale to determine the load necessary to put the floor in the right position would probably be a good place to start. Then considering the number of rods and the the force of each rod should dictate a place to start w a single rod. A "U" (cup) like holder overhead and on the top of the rod could contain the spring. Nested over and under each other.

A long shot would be to bolt the rods as solidly to the lower stringers and the floor beams. Feel the stringers while the boat is underway and if the vibration is slight rigid mounting could help. If the rods are not solidly attached together the boat bottom and stringers could act like a jackhammer pounding on the floor bottom. As the bottom, stringers come up the rod forces the floor up. Then the stringer moves down. If the floor is not firmly attached to the rod and the rod is firmly attached to the stringers when the stringers go down a space will develop between the floor and the top of the rod. In another instant the stringers and rods will violently move up … likely when the floor is coming down. Really severe vibration could be felt on the floor if this is the case.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Padeen]

Why not attenuate the vibrations?

GRAINGER APPROVED Vibration Isolator,720 Lb Max,1/2-13 - Cylindrical Vibration Isolators - 2NPD9|2NPD9 - Grainger Industrial Supply

Just one example.

+1

 

[Edelweiss]

To address the vibration, would it be possible to reinforce the floor joints while the floor is jacked up into position, then remove the jacks and let the new joists carry the floor with load bearing down out at the sides of the hull as originally designed? It's clearly more work, but might be worth it in the long run. Or would that be logistically impossible?

I believe anything is possible, but time, effort and cost are all considerations. I've seen examples of horizontal bracing with metal beams that seem to work just fine. But do I want to go to that much trouble, probably not. In my case, the ideal location for plumbing the whole floor is two inches ahead of a motor mount. I suspect the proximity to the mount is the problem. None of the others support posts I added cause this problem. I think some type of attenuation mount is possible or just rethinking the bracing scheme. When I return from Spain next month, I will have some time to play with it. Maybe there is a simple solution.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Edelweiss,
I thought this was Al's (FlyWright's) problem. You have the same problem too?

 

[FlyWright]

The sag is a common issue with Californians and several of us have added supports to cure the sag.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I think the little rubber doohickeys will just crush and run out of availible movement. Unless they were really big. Springs can compress all the way too and if that happened the vibration would really be terrible. But if loaded a little less than half way methinks they would be perfect.

Has anyone mounted them hard? Not just stuck in there. I mean like bolted.

By the way really weird things are appearing on the thread. The pic of Kevin's anchor is appearing over and over on all the posts. The text is compressed on the right and the pic is in a strange place. Is it my pad or the TF Site?

 

[wyoboater]

No "weirdness" on my laptop.

 

[Nomad Willy]

wyoboater,
My FB and yahoo are fine ..... not weird. Doan know. As a side we were at the Apple Store yesterday and all my stuff wS plugged in and messed w so ??????

In this post anybody seeing the pic of Kevin's anchor on the float?

 

[Scary]

Al, here's a thought, on the offending jack adding weight to the jack will dampen some of the vibration. You might try clamping several shaft zincs around the shaft. If you can get enough weight on the jack it will reduce the vibration. It takes energy to move weight. Some or maybe all energy in the vibration will be used up moving the weight of the zincs.

 

[Art]

Inflated small fender on top or bottom. Secure items into place as appropriate. Air pressure as required.

 

[BruceK]

The sag is a common issue with Californians and several of us have added supports to cure the sag.

I hear there are medications that may help.

 

[FlyWright]

Just a brief followup to my post about the increased vibes at the lower helm after tightening the supports.

Giggitoni and I went out on a short 1 hr run to test my recent cooling system flush with Barnacle Buster and noted the vibes on the way down the Mare Island Strait. After turning around, I descended into the ER to adjust the offending support.

I relaxed the compression on the fwd stbd support and found that the vibes disappeared yet the floor retains its raised position. Apparently this is due to the support being provided by the other 3 supports. So rather than install vibration dampening add-ons, I'll live with it like this for a while and see how well it does.

Thanks all for the helpful suggestions and advice.

 

[markpierce]

Lookin' forward for a ride on FlyWright with reduced vibration, especially at idle.

 

[FlyWright]

Lookin' forward for a ride on FlyWright with reduced vibration, especially at idle.

Don't expect much difference at idle, Mark. They are twin 4-cyl Perkins. It's what they are supposed to do at idle.

 

[Edelweiss]

Don't expect much difference at idle, Mark. They are twin 4-cyl Perkins. It's what they are supposed to do at idle.

Ha Ha. . .
You should see what that idling does to the two 9' long windows in the 38' and 42' aft cabin models. With both engines at idle, the glass vibration could scramble an egg.

 

[Keysdisease]

Stanchions like the ones you had fabricated are common on larger yachts and seem to do what you intended them to do, awesome, and nicely done.

An old school trick to reduce vibration transmission is to fill the stanchions with sand, sounds weird but really works.

As mentioned, Sylomer vibration isolation foam of the correct density (the grey or red versions) would also reduce vibration transmission. Comes 1/2" thick but you can trim the sides as long as you keep 1/2" in the load bearing part of the device. Any poly adhesive works with it.

As has been mentioned, isolation mounts are also common in this application. The mount typically used is similar to these BRB mounts Captive mount BRB | AMC Mecanocaucho
which Soundown carries and provide positive capture so no worries with movement. The Grainger isolator is not typically used because if it deteriorates the equipment may come adrift.

Use an isolator only at one end, not both. This avoids potential resonance.

I have the Soundown Carpet underlayment in my own boat and it really works with airborne noise. I doubt it would do much for vibration, but it does feel really soft underfoot.

 

[Rogerit]

Saggy floors

Hi there, I've read with interest on jacking the floors up. I've put together some temporary jacks with the view to permanently reinforcing the floor.

It's on a 1975 Californian 42, my question being, does anyone know the correct distance from the longitudinal stringer to the bottom of the floor joist, say at the front and rear of the large floor hatches?

Just wondering if I'm off by an inch or two, or maybe even more!!!

Thanks

Andy in Alaska

 

[FlyWright]

Dunno, but I designed my jacks with about 6-8 inches of lift that is more than enough. I marked the start point with red sharpie and have only cranked less than 2 inches. I cranked until the alignment of my cabinet doors matched.

 

[FlyWright]

Stanchions like the ones you had fabricated are common on larger yachts and seem to do what you intended them to do, awesome, and nicely done.

An old school trick to reduce vibration transmission is to fill the stanchions with sand, sounds weird but really works.

....

I have the Soundown Carpet underlayment in my own boat and it really works with airborne noise. I doubt it would do much for vibration, but it does feel really soft underfoot.

Great advice, Keys! I decided to try the sand trick in the support below the lower helm floor, then I really cranked that support tight. I took it out last week and was amazed at the difference! The other 3 supports were now transmitting much more vibes than this fwd stbd support. Now I've got a bag of sand in my trunk to fill the other supports this week.

Thanks for the great tip!

I'm still planning to install the Soundown carpet pad but keep diverting my boat bucks to other projects. I'm hoping that will greatly improve the noise levels and look forward to a softer feel under my carpet and rugs. I need 13 ft by 54 inches. Let me know if you see any good deals along the way.

Cheers and THANKS!

 

[Knot Salted]

34LRC Deck Sag Solution

Hey Al,

Do you recall what tube material was used in your jacks? --also threaded rod
3/4 or 1/2 inch? I am faced with the same issue and can't wait for this easy fix to my spongy floor and misaligned salon furniture!
PO had also replaced the fuel tanks, so same - same....

Thank you.

 

[Knot Salted]

...and I will definitely employ some sand, thanks to Keys, and to Duvie for the design idea!!

I love this forum.

 

[FlyWright]

Craig (Cpseudonym) fabricated them for me and I think it was just steel pipe. I think he used 3/4 rod but I'll have to check at the boat later this week. I painted the pipe and mounting feet with gray rattle can enamel paint.

The attached files are the sketches I made for Craig to follow. As shown on the bottom foot design, I had to offset one foot due to plumbing system interference. I lined them with felt/rubber backed carpet pad that worked out very well.

Post pics of your project. I'd love to see 'em.

 

[Knot Salted]

I sure will. Still in concept, trying to go without welding or bending, utilizing common parts at Home Depot or Lowes... Hoping I can also gain vertical space to remove valve covers in order to set valves all by my big-boy self...
..wish me luck.

 

[FlyWright]

Craig made the saddles from big industrial U channel. A metal or pipeworks shop might be a better choice than a big box store. I bet a local farmer could weld a set in a few hours.

 

[Art]

Craig (Cpseudonym) fabricated them for me and I think it was just steel pipe. I think he used 3/4 rod but I'll have to check at the boat later this week. I painted the pipe and mounting feet with gray rattle can enamel paint.

The attached files are the sketches I made for Craig to follow. As shown on the bottom foot design, I had to offset one foot due to plumbing system interference. I lined them with felt/rubber backed carpet pad that worked out very well.

Post pics of your project. I'd love to see 'em.

TF

Al - Quite the diagram!

BTW... you still chat with Craig? He was good addition to TF. Haven't heard from him for quite a while. Just for a little bit after selling his Owens. Say hi for me if you run across him!

 

[Edelweiss]

Craig (Cpseudonym) fabricated them for me and I think it was just steel pipe. I think he used 3/4 rod but I'll have to check at the boat later this week. I painted the pipe and mounting feet with gray rattle can enamel paint.

The attached files are the sketches I made for Craig to follow. As shown on the bottom foot design, I had to offset one foot due to plumbing system interference. I lined them with felt/rubber backed carpet pad that worked out very well.

Post pics of your project. I'd love to see 'em.

That looks pretty good Al. I've got to do mine too. Port side, salon floor is drooping a bit. Think I'll start out with your design concept and adapt it to my setup. Hope you didn't patent it.