The thermostat change is an interesting concept. Not sure if it would work. If the engine is smoking due to lack of block heat at low rpms, the existing thermostat wouldn't be open. Right? Changing to a thermostat that doesn't open until higher heat wouldn't matter. More heat is the only solution. Unless I misunderstand that low heat is the cause. But, no matter, who cares if it's smokey unless you're running down wind and breathing fumes.
Advise buying in 1983 grand Banks 42 classic
- Thread starter Michael S
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Hard to believe that a diesel can't generate enough heat at low rpms eventually. Not to sure about this whole line of logic that low heat is the cause of spewing fuel. Could it be the fuel pump minimum gph flow can't go low enough? If an engine HP range is say 100 hp at idle but 450 at speed with lots of turbo(as an inaccurate example), a fuel pump can't handle that wide range of gph flow? Thus it's set to handle the high end flow? I'm obviously bored today LOL.
Comodave
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Our diesels don’t warm up until we load them, idling at the dock and they stay cold forever. That is typical.
At what rpm does this slobbering go away? Rufus post 21 sounds like even running engines at partial boost/1000-1300 rpm on these big engines is not warm enough. I'm still learning here. Thanks for helping with my education. It's a moot point for me as a boat like the one in this thread with huge engines would be on my not to buy list. As mentioned by others, a Lehman with 120-150 or so HP would be my preference as would a smaller length.
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Did a little internet reading. Yes, 3208T smoke at idle, until warm and loaded. That doesn't necessarily mean that this boat in question will do that running at hull speed on the lake. Applied as practical advice about buying this boat, it seems to be moot info. My lack of knowledge on these engines led me down a rabbit hole.
I have been working nonstop the last few days and have not had the opportunity to post. Thank you again for all of the helpful information. I did have the opportunity to check the teak decking. The caulking appears intact in most places. Although the teak is gray and looks like it needs cleaning, it feels solid most everywhere. One soft spot exists on the lazarette in the Stern deck. I am guessing that some water has gotten in there. The other thing I noticed, and really impressed me, is how well all of the hardware still fits. On the rail gate it’s still latches perfectly when closed and releases easily. Several other places where there are hooks and latches and various intricate parts they still fit very smoothly.
As long as water hasn't migrated into transom, this is minor/repairable. Be sure to check interior ceiling of aft cabin for signs of the leak coming through. I'm betting no sign of a leak. Overall deck condition sounds good even with some repair needed. Fit of rails and latches is still solid after all these years. Overall, GB boats have always been considered well built. Do the screws for railings and other hardware appear to be original and solid/snug? Another sign of a well built boat. Hope you can get to mechanical and engine room general condition this weekend.Or whatever you can.
stroutmail
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I recently purchased a Grand Banks 36 Classic. With almost all brokers, your offer to buy will be contingent on a "satisfactory" marine condition and value survey as well as a sea trial. Buying insurance without a current condition survey is possible but very difficult--so consider a survey as mandatory. Bolz Marine Survey is Camdenton MO looks to be quite experienced--perhaps not with Grand Banks, but certainly qualified. So really, your financial risk is the cost of the survey. (Probably in the $600 to $1000 range.) If they find something unacceptable to you--you simply walk away. Or, if you want, you can negotiate repairs or changes in price.
If you like the boat, making an offer makes sense. Follow the surveyor around and that is when you get a chance to determine the condition and needed repairs.
Most brokers are a little reluctant to "commision" a boat that is winterized, just so you can hear the engine and generator run. But, in order to do the survey the boat will have to be "commissioned" ready to run for the survey and sea trial. If you can convince them that you are a serious buyer and not a tire kicker, and are willing to pay the cost of "un-winterizing", so that you can evaluate the engines, they might be willing.
$50,000 is a pretty good price. (Brokers very often build in 10% for bargaining-so do not be afraid to offer much less than the asking price.) Cat 3208 engines are good engines if properly maintained and operated. But be aware, other than loud banging noises, low power, excessive smoke, or excessive blowby it is difficult to determine an engine's internal condition without a history of oil analysis. So always assume that there is some risk of an old boat needing engine repairs----factor that into the price. (The engines on this boat should have more than 1000 hours of life still in them--maybe considerably more. There are many 3208's still running strong with 5000+ hours.)
Often, these boats are used as much as a weekend "condo" as for voyaging. The Grand Banks interiors are quality. The hulls are also known for quality. So, potential buyers may be people that like to spend time at the lake as well as those that actually enjoy traveling long distances in the boat.
Be aware that old boats are like old motor homes---even with good engines, there will be lots of work to be done----if you are not a DIY mechanic, cost of repairs should be considered, and if you are a DIY person, be aware that you will be spending lots of time taking care of the boat---be sure you enjoy that or selling your boat will be a happier day than the one when you bought it.
If you like the boat, making an offer makes sense. Follow the surveyor around and that is when you get a chance to determine the condition and needed repairs.
Most brokers are a little reluctant to "commision" a boat that is winterized, just so you can hear the engine and generator run. But, in order to do the survey the boat will have to be "commissioned" ready to run for the survey and sea trial. If you can convince them that you are a serious buyer and not a tire kicker, and are willing to pay the cost of "un-winterizing", so that you can evaluate the engines, they might be willing.
$50,000 is a pretty good price. (Brokers very often build in 10% for bargaining-so do not be afraid to offer much less than the asking price.) Cat 3208 engines are good engines if properly maintained and operated. But be aware, other than loud banging noises, low power, excessive smoke, or excessive blowby it is difficult to determine an engine's internal condition without a history of oil analysis. So always assume that there is some risk of an old boat needing engine repairs----factor that into the price. (The engines on this boat should have more than 1000 hours of life still in them--maybe considerably more. There are many 3208's still running strong with 5000+ hours.)
Often, these boats are used as much as a weekend "condo" as for voyaging. The Grand Banks interiors are quality. The hulls are also known for quality. So, potential buyers may be people that like to spend time at the lake as well as those that actually enjoy traveling long distances in the boat.
Be aware that old boats are like old motor homes---even with good engines, there will be lots of work to be done----if you are not a DIY mechanic, cost of repairs should be considered, and if you are a DIY person, be aware that you will be spending lots of time taking care of the boat---be sure you enjoy that or selling your boat will be a happier day than the one when you bought it.
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Westiculo
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Are you planning to keep it in a boathouse? I have a feeling that - kept outside - you'll find a crapload of leaks. Best thing to do to evaluate is to roll a hose out and completely douse the thing with water; I'm talking 20 minutes of completely saturating the cabin, everywhere you think rain might be able to reach - nail it with water. Go inside and see what happens... It'll at least help you see if/where obvious leaks are. Teak decks look pretty good for the age. Anywhere you see black wood on the deck (around bungs or at seams) is a safe assumption that water is getting in there and those areas would need to be repaired.
TEXTrawler
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I looked into this boat a few months ago. Based on the engine serial numbers they are 375 hp versions not 435s. My main concern was the decks...in several places the teak has become delaminated and the sikaflex is completely loose or missing. I'd estimate there is water intrusion in a some portion of the deck coring. I didn't want to mess with that issue so I waived off.
stroutmail
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Biggest risks with old boats with teak decks is probably the engines and the decking. As mentioned, teak decks with loose or missing caulking are sure signs of water intrusion. The hull is solid fiberglass--the decks below the teak are fiberglass with a core--usually plywood or foam. If the core gets wet and deteriorates, the only fix is to cut it out---can be a very messy and big deal.
While the surveyor may not be uber experienced with teak, he should be able to give you an idea of the condition of the underlying deck. In any case, the broker is aware that teak deck and core repairs are expensive---again, if you like the boat, simply factor an estimate for cost of repairs into your offer. (Some people have removed the teak deck from a Grand Banks and refinished the deck as a fiberglass non-skid one. It is still a very big job.)
https://www.cruisingworld.com/replacing-teak-decks-is-monumental-job/
I am a big fan of GB's and routinely charter one up in BC to cruise the Broughton's. I concur with the other remarks that Cat 3208's seem to be a bit of overkill for a GB 42 but it is what it is. We know about the brightwork and GB's have a fair amount. We talked about window leaks. Check the drain holes in the track to be sure they are open. The windows can be resealed but it's pricey and best left to professionals. The decks can be refastened where necessary and re caulked. Check out the TDS website for more information. Key unknown is the condition of the black iron fuel tanks, they can leak and it is prohibitively pricey to remove and replace - especially with behemoth 3208's in the way. An earlier comment remarked on access to the outboard side of the engines - be sure you can get in there and work comfortably. Of course get a survey. Good luck, I love GB's but unless they are kept up they can be a money pit to get right.
stroutmail
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I sure agree on that, but I bought my boat from a serious seller with the boat at a very large and reputable broker and it was not ready to run when I viewed it--even though I made an appointment well in advance and drove more than 200 miles to see it. In my case, the problem related to COVID 19 and a shortage of boatyard workers.
Hard to know the whole story here but it appears the seller and broker may be afraid that the boat will still be sitting around this winter or they don't have people to do the work.
This one, being under cover may have minimal water damage but ripe for it once out in the elements. Either case calls for repairs from someone versed in deck replacement. If there is the possibility of keeping the boat in it's current location, It'd be worth negotiating a year for repairs. We're all making experienced guesses. It does sound like the buyer is checking himself before hiring a surveyor. I think that's something we would all do. Keep up the good work!
Flatswing
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Welcome! Those Cats are due for turbo service. Plan on $2500 per side minimum even if the motors run fine. Much more if the turbos and/or exhaust elbows are toast as I suspect they are. Pay careful attention to the top (External) of the fuel tanks. GB of this vintage with teak decks are notorious for leaking around the deck fills, rotting the deck core and then rusting out the tanks, repair/replacement will be more than the cost of this boat.
Check windows carefully for signs of leaks/rot -another common problem in this vintage. As others have mentioned, the time or cost of keeping up the exterior teak brightwork is not for the uninitiated. Most who say they will do it themselves, never finish stripping and applying the required 8-10 coats the first time unless they are fully retired like me. It truly is a labor of love - not for those who actually work for a living. Understand that this boat has a reputable pedigree and the hull is almost certainly solid. BUT - it’s an as is where is sale, which tells you the owner either couldn’t or didn’t keep up the myriad of upkeep needed to maintain the GB pedigree. Unless you are familiar with trawler upkeep and maintenance, guaranteed you will underestimate the time & dollars required to make it the way you perhaps envision by a factor of 2, probably 5. If u are serious about purchase, don’t be afraid to invest $1-2k in a good survey from someone who is familiar with GB. If u have to walk away As a result, it will be the best $2k u ever spent.
How do you expect to run the boat? On LOTO, surely most boats are weekenders? The GB is a coastal cruiser -burning 4-5 gph at 8 knots. It will plane And cruise at 16 knots but your fuel burn will curl your hair. This is not a lightweight boat. Great boat to use as a weekend cottage in a covered slip, quick cruise to another cove or for lunch and backwith friends with planing weekenders - not so much. As we used to say with our GB “others get up have breakfast and go to xyz, we get up, head out & have breakfast en route”, ‘cause 50-70 NM is a full day.
That said if the engines run fine, the tanks are in good shape and you have some mechanical skills and don’t intend to bring it back to Bristol condition, it’s a lot of boat for the money. Your significant other (If present) has to really love it too,
Check windows carefully for signs of leaks/rot -another common problem in this vintage. As others have mentioned, the time or cost of keeping up the exterior teak brightwork is not for the uninitiated. Most who say they will do it themselves, never finish stripping and applying the required 8-10 coats the first time unless they are fully retired like me. It truly is a labor of love - not for those who actually work for a living. Understand that this boat has a reputable pedigree and the hull is almost certainly solid. BUT - it’s an as is where is sale, which tells you the owner either couldn’t or didn’t keep up the myriad of upkeep needed to maintain the GB pedigree. Unless you are familiar with trawler upkeep and maintenance, guaranteed you will underestimate the time & dollars required to make it the way you perhaps envision by a factor of 2, probably 5. If u are serious about purchase, don’t be afraid to invest $1-2k in a good survey from someone who is familiar with GB. If u have to walk away As a result, it will be the best $2k u ever spent.
How do you expect to run the boat? On LOTO, surely most boats are weekenders? The GB is a coastal cruiser -burning 4-5 gph at 8 knots. It will plane And cruise at 16 knots but your fuel burn will curl your hair. This is not a lightweight boat. Great boat to use as a weekend cottage in a covered slip, quick cruise to another cove or for lunch and backwith friends with planing weekenders - not so much. As we used to say with our GB “others get up have breakfast and go to xyz, we get up, head out & have breakfast en route”, ‘cause 50-70 NM is a full day.
That said if the engines run fine, the tanks are in good shape and you have some mechanical skills and don’t intend to bring it back to Bristol condition, it’s a lot of boat for the money. Your significant other (If present) has to really love it too,
Bryant
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1983 gb 42
My GB 36 is an 84. First thing you need to do is check to see that you can insure an 83 and what it will cost. Older boats are getting harder to insure and it's getting more expensive. If you are financing the boat, your financial institution will require a survey as will your insurance company. They will then require all major issues to be repaired. Could be costly. The engine hours are good. Does this boat have the original fuel tanks? If so, they will probably need to be replaced. Costly and difficult. How many AC units does it have? How old are they? I just replaced my main 16,000 BTU unit in the saloon and it ran $2,500 installed. I see it still has teak decks. You may have a moisture issue in the deck. A survey will tell you that. And that's a lot of work to maintain. A new generator is costly and if you are going to anchor out at all, you need a generator. If you are ever considering having a dinghy and storing it on top of the boat you will need a mast and a boom, or a small boom and winch. The blister situation will need to be looked at and addressed. The price is reasonable, depending on what your survey says. The best money you will ever spend on that boat is the best survey you can get. You may find out it's a bargain or you may find out there is more work to be done than the boat is worth. I love my GB but trust me, whatever the survey says, an older GB is going to require some TLC and some investment. I've put a little over $30k into mine since purchase and I'm not finished yet. Good luck!
My GB 36 is an 84. First thing you need to do is check to see that you can insure an 83 and what it will cost. Older boats are getting harder to insure and it's getting more expensive. If you are financing the boat, your financial institution will require a survey as will your insurance company. They will then require all major issues to be repaired. Could be costly. The engine hours are good. Does this boat have the original fuel tanks? If so, they will probably need to be replaced. Costly and difficult. How many AC units does it have? How old are they? I just replaced my main 16,000 BTU unit in the saloon and it ran $2,500 installed. I see it still has teak decks. You may have a moisture issue in the deck. A survey will tell you that. And that's a lot of work to maintain. A new generator is costly and if you are going to anchor out at all, you need a generator. If you are ever considering having a dinghy and storing it on top of the boat you will need a mast and a boom, or a small boom and winch. The blister situation will need to be looked at and addressed. The price is reasonable, depending on what your survey says. The best money you will ever spend on that boat is the best survey you can get. You may find out it's a bargain or you may find out there is more work to be done than the boat is worth. I love my GB but trust me, whatever the survey says, an older GB is going to require some TLC and some investment. I've put a little over $30k into mine since purchase and I'm not finished yet. Good luck!
rgano
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I sold a 1972 wooden hulled Grand Banks 42 (twin Lehman 120s - THE perfect engines for this boat) in 2015 for $61K and considered the new owner got a good deal - he still talks to me without calling me names. A 1983 GB42 in fiberglass in the same condition as mine should go for 2-3, even four times as much. This boat is priced for SALE. The level of neglect this poor boat has suffered is evident when you compare the photos of it and what I consider a reasonably well maintained GB42, which also lived undercover for many years. If I were crazy enough to get back into a GB42 again, and I bought this boat for the asking price and no sea trial, I would expect to put at least the full sales price back into it to get it anywhere near condition to re-sell down the line. The electronics look ancient. Do not be so naive as the believe the broker's comment about "fuel issue" as the reason that old clunky Onan generator isn't running. Decks! Are you a gluten for punishment or do you have a good friend knowledgeable and willing to help in what sounds like a massive job? Lastly, if you just want something to soak up money and dock time with probably little cruising enjoyment for about the first five years, buy it.
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Bryant
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83 gb 42
Brutal, but Brutally honest and some good insight and advice. Honestly, if you are going to use this boat as nothing but a "Dock Condo" on the lake and have no intention of actually using it on the water, offer $40k and see what they come back with. Either way, it would be a pretty cheap "lake cabin". Then be prepared to sell it for a song when you are done with it. If you intend to actually use it on the water, you are probably looking at a significant post purchase investment to bring it up to speed. Survey will tell.
Brutal, but Brutally honest and some good insight and advice. Honestly, if you are going to use this boat as nothing but a "Dock Condo" on the lake and have no intention of actually using it on the water, offer $40k and see what they come back with. Either way, it would be a pretty cheap "lake cabin". Then be prepared to sell it for a song when you are done with it. If you intend to actually use it on the water, you are probably looking at a significant post purchase investment to bring it up to speed. Survey will tell.
The fuel tank might leak, the core may rot, blisters may form, a meteor may hit you tomorrow. The fuel tank might not leak, the core may be fine, and blisters never sank a boat. Lighten up people.
Yes, use a borescope to check top of tank. Also around the backside if you get access. Iron tanks have a finite life if they have been allowed to rust. Yes, there might be some wet core. So What. If your foot goes through the deck then it's a problem. If the deck sags when you walk on it, then it's a problem. Otherwise, the boat won't sink.
I think OP would appreciate shared wisdom on potential issues. Projecting your fears and predicting doom if he proceeds isn't helpful. It's a 40 year old boat at a bargain price.
Yes, use a borescope to check top of tank. Also around the backside if you get access. Iron tanks have a finite life if they have been allowed to rust. Yes, there might be some wet core. So What. If your foot goes through the deck then it's a problem. If the deck sags when you walk on it, then it's a problem. Otherwise, the boat won't sink.
I think OP would appreciate shared wisdom on potential issues. Projecting your fears and predicting doom if he proceeds isn't helpful. It's a 40 year old boat at a bargain price.
Glad you were able to move forward with your purchase despite COVID related lack of prep. But I do think that in general it's reasonable to expect things to be running and unwinterized. If, in reality it's not, proceed with caution and tight purse strings.
Bryant
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As the owner of a 36 year old GB, sharing wisdom of potential issues that are particular to these boats is exactly what I’ve done. Not projecting my fears. I gave him an honest opinion based on experience, which is what a forum is all about.
The deck doesn’t have to sag when you walk on it in order to have serious water intrusion issues. And typically, older GBs with teak decks have these issues. If the survey says there are issues beyond a certain point, you can’t get insurance without fixing that and it’s costly and involved.
As the owner of an older GB, I know what the hidden demons can be in these boats, what the cost and effort to fix them are, and I’ve tried to point those out so that the OP goes into this with eyes wide open. The poster that said he would probably have to invest as much as the original cost in order to deal with these potential issues was exactly right. Again, a competent survey will answer these questions.
As the owner of a 36 year old GB, sharing wisdom of potential issues that are particular to these boats is exactly what I’ve done. Not projecting my fears. I gave him an honest opinion based on experience, which is what a forum is all about.
The deck doesn’t have to sag when you walk on it in order to have serious water intrusion issues. And typically, older GBs with teak decks have these issues. If the survey says there are issues beyond a certain point, you can’t get insurance without fixing that and it’s costly and involved.
As the owner of an older GB, I know what the hidden demons can be in these boats, what the cost and effort to fix them are, and I’ve tried to point those out so that the OP goes into this with eyes wide open. The poster that said he would probably have to invest as much as the original cost in order to deal with these potential issues was exactly right. Again, a competent survey will answer these questions.
Hi Michael S. I don't think you said if the engines had been properly "winterized" a few years ago when the owner realized he no longer wanted to "engage" with the boat. If it was winterized, that gives a MUCH better chance of the engines being easily brought to running usable condition. It sounds like you're slowly moving forward, we all understand that job and family comes first. I would think that by now, the owner/broker would be making maintenance records and logs available to you. How far away are you from the boat location? As always, wishing you clear vision as you learn more about a potential deal. David.
grandbanksbayfield
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Huge engines in that old boat?
Something is wrong. That boat has no need for those engines. I would not touch it unless I heard them running. It looks like a money pit -- POs who did not have their heads screwed on straight.
Something is wrong. That boat has no need for those engines. I would not touch it unless I heard them running. It looks like a money pit -- POs who did not have their heads screwed on straight.
Comodave
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We are going to look at an older Hatteras Tuesday. I called Boat/US to see if they would insure a boat of that vintage. No problem and surprisingly the quote was only about 300 more for a stated value 3 times greater. So insurance can be had on older boats (1977).
hollywood8118
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As an alumni of the grand banks owners I dont think that the boat shows too bad. If it has been under cover most of its life the decks may be just fine, the tanks may be fine too. Not that the pics are great but the interior looks decent and unmolested and I dont see any telltale signs of veneer discoloration or window leaks. I agree the motors are too big for a 42 but it isn't the end of the world, they probably were used lightly in that boat and could run for years. In the end someone will buy it and could get great boat. Yes it could also be a money pit, but a low dollar one.
HOLLYWOOD
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Thanks again for all of the constructive thoughts. I appreciate both the brutally honest concerns about potential problems, and the encouraging comments about the value of this boat. I live about three hours away from the lake and hope to get back there next weekend. More investigation to come!
wkearney99
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We've done this. I've taken the guy that handles coordinating all my boat work with me. Crawled all over the boat looking for "the usual suspects", identifying anything obvious. Satisfied that what we saw wasn't overly problematic, we hired a boat surveyor AND and engine surveyor. Both inspected at the same time, to avoid trips in/out of the water (winter in the northeast). We did a sea trial that same day, with both surveyors on board. Best money spent. Got us a laundry list of 'things to do' and leverage to haggle on the final price. Definitely something worth doing.
Nomad Willy
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I said as much on post # 18.
The OP needs to look at other boats.
Lots of other boats out there.
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Capn Craig
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Overcoming the 'land locked' lake might not be too expensive. A sixty to sixty five mile haul from Lake of the Ozarks to Jefferson City on the Missouri River would put the boat in navigable water to anywhere in the midwest, Gulf Coast, or East Coast.
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