AIS Pros & Cons?

[mahal]

Just an input here, been a sailor since 1976. Always having situational awareness and always had VHF in the cockpit as well as below. Now I have a motorboat tug. And let me tell you all, I feel more prone at the below helm, find myself running around the boat checking all quarters at all times. So any help I can get is great. AIS Radar VHF Select calling, and a better pair of binoculars too.


OK back on subject..... New m2000 GPS and separate VHF antenna for the system arrived ready to install.



So tech wise, installing another VHF antenna in for me a small boat creates problems, Needs to be more than 4 feet from any other VHF antenna. Need to get my tape measure out. Or utilize my small mast.

Another option would be to use an antenna extension mast. If you need to lower it, use a ratchet mount.

I also considered the mast for mine but it was going to involve too much extra work on cable routing.

 

[AlaskaProf]

So tech wise, installing another VHF antenna in for me a small boat creates problems, Needs to be more than 4 feet from any other VHF antenna.

Obvious solution: You need a bigger boat. :lol:

 

[man7sell]

Obvious solution: You need a bigger boat. :lol:

I just sold the bigger boat to down size

 

[fgarriso]

You may have downsized too much

or get a bigger mast

 

[kthoennes]

We've chartered a number of sailboats (mostly PNW), nice ones, and I'm always mystified by the VHF down below at the chart table but nothing in the cockpit. Unless you have the volume cranked up to hear it, does you very little good underway, and even if you hear it in the cockpit and need to respond, then you have to leave the wheel to use it if you're solo. One of the first upgrades when we bought our current boat was to do a VHF radio in the salon as well as the upper helm (no lower helm on our boat) and then we even got a waterproof handheld for the dinghy.

 

[Patemey]

Saw this on Facebook so snapshot here. Another reason to have AIS with transmit. Unless of course you don’t want to be seen or have anyone to know where you are.

 

[psneeld]

As usual, only part of the story on how to stay safe.

There are several ways to make up for the lack of AIS, good skippers have been doing it for decades before AIS arrived.

Yes it is convenient, but described as an absolute necessity to me suggests lack of basic skippering skills.

 

[Comodave]

We were crossing Lake Ontario in very poor conditions. Lots of wind, waves about 6’ off the starboard quarter and at times rain so heavy the radar would whiteout. The autopilot was working hard and keeping a course of about +-25 degrees. I couldn’t see anything on the radar but on the plotter I could see 2 ships, 700’+ that would be crossing our bow from left to right. The first ship wasn’t a concern but the second one was on a collision course. Due to the AIS I could see the ship and the name of the ship. About the time I was going to call him he called me by name, courtesy of the AIS, and he said he would come right and pass behind us. It was nice that the ship knew the rules of the road. Without AIS I would never have known he was there. I don’t know if he picked us up on radar or not but definitely he saw us on AIS because he knew our boat name. I never saw either of the ships so keeping a good lookout was no help. If we didn’t have AIS who knows if he would have seen us, we certainly wouldn’t have seen him until it was too late. Is AIS good, no, it is great.

Ok, in a situation like this where even the radar can’t see through the rain, what other basic skippering should I have used to find the 700’ ship without AIS? It can be extremely valuable. I don’t know if the ship saw us on radar but he absolutely saw us on AIS because he called us by name. I saw him only through AIS on the plotter, but the radar was literally a whiteout due to the heavy rain.

 

[guy with a boat]

As usual, only part of the story on how to stay safe.

There are several ways to make up for the lack of AIS, good skippers have been doing it for decades before AIS arrived.

Yes it is convenient, but described as an absolute necessity to me suggests lack of basic skippering skills.

You can say the same about paper charts and celestial navigation.

No one is arguing that it is a “an absolute necessity”. It it a great tool and very worthwhile. “Good skippers” navigated without GPS or radar, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have both today.

 

[mvweebles]

Decent article describing Class B AIS and newer iteration of Class B+

My takeaway is that if you're considering AIS transceiver, might want to pop for the more expensive B+ AIS unit. A bit more sophisticated than just more power (5w vs 2w)

https://www.mby.com/gear/ais-b-plus-explained-104136

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Ok, in a situation like this where even the radar can’t see through the rain, what other basic skippering should I have used to find the 700’ ship without AIS? It can be extremely valuable. I don’t know if the ship saw us on radar but he absolutely saw us on AIS because he called us by name. I saw him only through AIS on the plotter, but the radar was literally a whiteout due to the heavy rain.

700 foot ships on the same course sounds like they were travelling in a shipping lane. Chartplotter or paper charts would show these. If I were crossing a shipping lane then I would expect such traffic.
I could get on the radio and annouce my intention to cross shipping lane and is there any ships in the shipping lane near Lat/Long.
Or I would contact vessel traffic and ask if there are any in my area.
Then there is securite, securite, securite all stations this is Black Dog transitting shipping lane currently at Lat/Long, heading xxx*, speed x knots.

I am starting to understand the need many here have for AIS and that makes it alright.

 

[mvweebles]

700 foot ships on the same course sounds like they were travelling in a shipping lane. Chartplotter or paper charts would show these. If I were crossing a shipping lane then I would expect such traffic.

I could get on the radio and annouce my intention to cross shipping lane and is there any ships in the shipping lane near Lat/Long.

Or I would contact vessel traffic and ask if there are any in my area.

Then there is securite, securite, securite all stations this is Black Dog transitting shipping lane currently at Lat/Long, heading xxx*, speed x knots.



I am starting to understand the need many here have for AIS and that makes it alright.

Heading either southvound or northbound from So Cal, chances are you cross the Santa Barbara shipping channel at a very oblique angle (typically going between Sta Cruz and Sta Rosa islands). By this point, ships are often traveling at 25 kts. Because my delivery strategy was always to round the headlands to the west at midnight or so, crossing the shipping lanes meant high alert. Yes, radar and MARPA helped a lot, but AIS is invaluable.

All I can say is I found that crossing this shipping lane to be pretty stressful because it involved a lot of mental gymnastics. AIS would dramatically reduce the human error factor.

For those who want to run in stealth mode, consider what that means as you cross one of the busier shipping channels in North America when ships are traveling at their full speed potential.

Peter

 

[Comodave]

700 foot ships on the same course sounds like they were travelling in a shipping lane. Chartplotter or paper charts would show these. If I were crossing a shipping lane then I would expect such traffic.
I could get on the radio and annouce my intention to cross shipping lane and is there any ships in the shipping lane near Lat/Long.
Or I would contact vessel traffic and ask if there are any in my area.
Then there is securite, securite, securite all stations this is Black Dog transitting shipping lane currently at Lat/Long, heading xxx*, speed x knots.

I am starting to understand the need many here have for AIS and that makes it alright.

We were crossing Lake Ontario. Not really in a shipping channel. I wasn’t going to transmit my position constantly. And with AIS I didn’t have to since the large ships have AIS. The only concern was small boats that didn’t have it. But if I didn’t have it the large ship may have hit us. No way to tell what would have happened but since we had AIS it was a non issue.

 

[tiltrider1]

In the PNW, the large ships turn off Class B targets and rely solely on Radar. It is the opinion of the Puget Sound Pilots Association that AIS for Class B is a distraction as it does not tell the Pilot where the boat is, onlY where it was. Personally, I find AIS very helpful when maneuvering with large commercial traffic.

 

[markpierce]

Doubt I'll ever acquire AIS even after the cows come home. In "my" waters, radar, radio, eyeballs, and ships's announcements by them and the USCG provide plenty of warnings.

 

[psneeld]

I dont know, spent a fair amount of time on the water.

Mostly at and in the entrances to NY harbor, Delaware Bay and the Chesapeak bay. Never had a close call with a ship. Only close call was before my boat had radar and a fisherman in rhe foggy Chesapeake decided to tong oysters without sound signals or lights.

Played chken a million times, but that was because others didn't understand the NAVRULES, not because we didn't know where each other was.

I can only remember once being in heavy rain and losing Radar picture, I think it was that day that I got much better at tuning it. Sure wou wont pick up all targets, but most and certainly the good ones.

I think I am less worries about collisions because where I boated and towed, you were constantly on collision courses with at leadt 1 other boat. So coming clise aboard wasn't unusual or worrisome as untill I was handling something over 60 feet or so, quick last minute maneuvers were no big deal.

 

[Hippocampus]

Curious, have you ever owned a sailboat? I said I was shocked a sailboater answered a hail on 16. Why, because the skipper and crew are in the cockpit with wind whistleing through their ears and seldom have a VHF in the cockpit let alone a AIS display in the sunshine. Sailboaters usually do not have it turned on as they cannot hear it from below at the nav station.
Experience would have told you that.

This is a fallacy.
All my SAILBOATS have had a MFD at the cockpit binnacle. Easily seen and constantly monitored while underway. They have also had a second station f electronics at the companionway so one could monitor things and adjust the AP while under the dodger and out of weather. Most have had a third MFD at the nav station.
This setup is pretty much routine for cruising sailboats. Would say 90% or greater of my sailing buddies have exactly this or something thing quite similar. If you’re talking about daysailors or small class or beer can racers no. But cruisers on sail or power have the same concerns so are similarly set up. BTW all have a vhf remote on the binnacle as well.
I wonder if your experience of boats set up for day sailing or use in protected waters has distorted your view of things.

 

[rwidman]

As usual, only part of the story on how to stay safe.

There are several ways to make up for the lack of AIS, good skippers have been doing it for decades before AIS arrived.

Yes it is convenient, but described as an absolute necessity to me suggests lack of basic skippering skills.

There are a lot of people out on the water with a "lack of basic skippering skills". Ever pass through Wrightsville beach, NC or Myrtle Beach, SC on a sunny summer weekend?

People started navigating boats by looking at the sun and stars. Then the compass was invented. Later, the sextant was invented.

Then came aids to navigation, printed charts, radio direction finders, and Loran. Then the GPS system was developed and chart plotters came along.

None of this was or is absolutely necessary, but each new development made boating and navigation easier and safer.

AIS is a tool in your toolbox, much like a hammer or screwdriver in a carpenter's toolbox. The wider assortment of tools a carpenter has, the better work he can do.

The wider assortment of tools a captain has, the easier and safer his cruise will be.

 

[rwidman]

This is a fallacy.
All my SAILBOATS have had a MFD at the cockpit binnacle. Easily seen and constantly monitored while underway. They have also had a second station f electronics at the companionway so one could monitor things and adjust the AP while under the dodger and out of weather. Most have had a third MFD at the nav station.
This setup is pretty much routine for cruising sailboats. Would say 90% or greater of my sailing buddies have exactly this or something thing quite similar. If you’re talking about daysailors or small class or beer can racers no. But cruisers on sail or power have the same concerns so are similarly set up. BTW all have a vhf remote on the binnacle as well.
I wonder if your experience of boats set up for day sailing or use in protected waters has distorted your view of things.

I will simply speak from my experience. Calling sailboats on the AICW and similar waterways using channel 16 on the VHF, I have seldom received a response. Well, I get a response maybe 10% of the time. My radio works fine, I can usually get a response from a powerboat or commercial vessel.

So, either the sailboat's radio isn't turned on, it is in a place where the operator cannot hear it, or the sailboat is intentionally ignoring me.

Unless you have a better explanation.

 

[man7sell]

I will simply speak from my experience. Calling sailboats on the AICW and similar waterways using channel 16 on the VHF, I have seldom received a response. Well, I get a response maybe 10% of the time. My radio works fine, I can usually get a response from a powerboat or commercial vessel.

So, either the sailboat's radio isn't turned on, it is in a place where the operator cannot hear it, or the sailboat is intentionally ignoring me.

Unless you have a better explanation.

Having had mostly sailboats, I have always had a VHF speaker and mic in the cockpit. Very rarely has anyone hailed me on these, and if it happened it was usually a sailing pal for a meet up.


In later years also the FMD in the cockpit.


The new boat is a tug so I am inside most of the time (finding this strange). But again, I have so far nobody trying to contact me. Maybe because I am trying to be aware of all situations and any tools that are at hand will help this. Hence adding AIS to my toolbox seems to be the way to go.



Now for a better pair of binoculars.



Safe boating is no accident.

 

[Hippocampus]

End of day without using (M)ARPA or a in head calculation I get everything I want to know by clicking on a AIS icon in a second. With a transceiver so does anyone looking at me.
Anything that helps shortens the time it takes me to achieve excellent situational awareness is a boon. Anything that helps achieves that in a 360 view is especially useful.
Folks say I do this fine with my eyeballs or with radar or calculated intercepts or with a receiver are right. They do. But with a transceiver you do it quicker and are able to move on faster to other concerns.
Like with driving my goal is to not hit anything and not have anyone hit me. Now my cars have radar, ultrasound and cameras. I never had an at fault accident even when they had none of these supplements. But I love the supplements and know they make accidents less likely to happen. The Rivian has lane keeping tech. A first for me. I love it. Never had a a sideswipe in the past.
View the lack of acceptance AIS as simple bullheadedness. Just like your MFD it’s an aid to navigation. Do you routinely keep a chart unfolded at the helm. We do keep a cruising guide out and occasionally look at it but have moved on from paper. View the “I don’t need it “ argument as pure hubris. If you have around $600 why in the world wouldn’t you make your life easier and safer? Why wouldn’t do do the same for the others boats and ships around you? Chest puffing? I’m an old salt and have done fine without it? Egocentricity?

 

[ranger58sb]

This is a fallacy.
All my SAILBOATS have had a MFD at the cockpit binnacle. Easily seen and constantly monitored while underway. They have also had a second station f electronics at the companionway so one could monitor things and adjust the AP while under the dodger and out of weather. Most have had a third MFD at the nav station.
This setup is pretty much routine for cruising sailboats. Would say 90% or greater of my sailing buddies have exactly this or something thing quite similar. If you’re talking about daysailors or small class or beer can racers no. But cruisers on sail or power have the same concerns so are similarly set up. BTW all have a vhf remote on the binnacle as well.
I wonder if your experience of boats set up for day sailing or use in protected waters has distorted your view of things.

As with others, our experience on the Chesapeake and along the AICW... you (and your 90% of sailing buddies) are the exception, not the norm.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

As with others, our experience on the Chesapeake and along the AICW... you (and your 90% of sailing buddies) are the exception, not the norm.

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

Hubris? Bullheaded?

Or just sees boating from a totally different perspective.

How many hours at sea doing far more than going from A to B vs working in an office? Might have something useful to say without being called things.

 

[Hippocampus]

Can tell you the number of times a smallish sailboat (30-36’) has sat in the middle of the channel of the AICW doing 5kts and not responded to any attempts to interact with us. Yes without a doubt they are an issue and source of annoyance. But blanket statements condemning sailboaters are misplaced. Comments about specific subgroups aren’t justified either. Same with sportfish. Have crewed for excellent skippers on them who are courteous in all regards. But also waked by an unannounced pass in narrow sections of the ICW on a bend by some. Same with PWCs or other annoyances like people anchored in channels fishing. Every subset has their percentage of low flyers.

Will double down. If you have the ~$600 why not get a transceiver. You can not put it on your screens if you so choose. Delete the overlay. But at least others will know your presence, speed and course. You yet to offer a compelling negative. Rather repeat I do fine without it and don’t need it in your judgment from what I get from your posts. Have you considered those of us without your superior skills would benefit from seeing you on our screens? You say you’re about safety. Can you agree AIS improves safety both for ships and recreational boaters? Particularly for those without your experience and stated skills?
Few weeks ago went out with a friend on his 24’ Grady white and our ladies. Channel in to Plymouth harbor is long, narrow, with several right angles. It was dusk and a moderate fog started. Shortly after it started raining. Everyone had called it a day so a lot of traffic. He did fine. After picking up the pendant. He said god bless AIS. Didn’t even see that big captain John whale watcher until he was at our side except on the AIS. Did look for him but must have been shadowed on radar by that steel trawler until he got close.
He’s a very occasional boater. Rather be riding his custom motorcycles on a pleasant day. So not using aids to navigation is bullheaded imho. Just like there’s a difference between what’s just and what’s legal. There’s a difference between what’s required and what’s prudent. Not a salient point to discuss vhf or anchors. Thought we were discussing AIS.
So how about giving us mere mortal, average joes a leg up. Those working a trade or behind a desk during the week seem to have their stress lowered and safety improved by transceivers.
Whether you’ve done multiple blue water passages, gone to places where no one has AIS except the international shipping or lived on a cruising boat for years is irrelevant to this discussion. The question is stand alone. Does AIS improve safety. Believe the answer is yes. Is a transceiver an improvement other a receiver . Again a yes. The above answers are true regardless of your experience or skill set. Reasonable to question need and practicality depending upon size of the vessel, speed, and operating area. Bull headed in my view for a midsized cruising boat if the money is available. Help us meet mortals who sometimes are tired or ate something bad or stressed by non boat things and need all the help we can get. Help all the mom and pops who just want a low stress, peaceful day on the water. Think folks here by just following this thread have a reasonable level of experience and importantly are concerned about their and others safety. They are reading this this to determine if ais would be helpful to them and worth the expense labor or to relate their experience with AIS. My opinion, yes opinion, is that it’s a definite benefit and worth the dollars.

 

[psneeld]

Again, seemingly oblivious to the same boating world I know.

The world of cruisers may benefit somewhat, but the reality is many boaters are not going to spend $600 on it if they dont even have a $300 PLB and the govt and insurance dont seem to care whether we have either onboard.

I have repeatedly said it's a good tool but it is far from a mandatory safety device if boaters develop other basic skills, like constant bearing decreasing range both visually and Radar, learn where to travel away from most traffic, learn to estimate ranges and bearings better, not panic when another essel is close aboard and not giving way when required, etc, etc. If you feel you need it till those skills improve, fine, spend the $600. Me, personally I care less about others seeing me as even if they do, it doesnt mean they won't run into me.

And until everything floating out there brodcasts its position, it only helps fractionally, not like many here want to think.

So my compelling negative is that having it (plus for many others) until mandared for way more boats/ATON, it is so fractionally useful ....why bother? I had a recieve only VHF for years and after a couple round trips to Fl from NJ, I don't think I used it at all for the last half dozen trips. I am also on record the for the loop and Wester Rivers with barge trains, I agree receive only is a great idea, maybe even spring for a transceiver.

There is no need to argue it further..... you nor anyone else has shown me anthing I don't already know about AIS. I have stated my view about as well as I can if people stop and really think of all the situations it might help versis those where it won't at all.

 

[Hippocampus]

Going both north and south on the AICW my transceiver has been helpful every single day. It’s allowed us to speed up or slow down to allow passes with commercial traffic in wider spots. Even gotten calls like “hey hippocampus might want to go real slow around your next bend. Lots of junk in the water here”. For years and years now it’s made entering tight spots like the exit from LIS into hell gate or transits of the east river so much easier. Especially now as the number of small fast ferries out of Brooklyn continues to increase.
My next door neighbor’s nephew is CG out of woods hole so we chat time to time. He has said “wish everyone had AIS “ ….. make my job easier”.
Maybe my fiends are a subset but transceivers have been a boon in our social life. Instead of passing near each other without knowledge of proximity in our travels we now get to see other or at least hav a vhf chat.
You comment its utility would be improved if more boaters had transceivers. Totally agree. So I’m here spending time encouraging others to get them. You seem to be here encouraging people to not get them. Can’t get my head around that. You seem to agree they improve safety. You seem to agree being seen (transceiver) improves safety even further. You say we’ve not shown you something you don’t know. Didn’t think anyone here had that as a goal. Know I didn’t. Thought the goal was to explore is a transceiver worth it.
You say I had no need. Never stated someone like you couldn’t travel safely without AIS or even imply it. But it’s not about you. It’s about the general boating public. Same with your traveling NJ-Fl with just a vhf receiver. Good on you. Many of the rest of us like to chat with the fuel dock or dock master before coming in. Hear which slip and when they want to put us there. Many of us on rare occasions ask commercial traffic where they want us, are we not interfering on our present course or/and if they agree to a pass now. Personally would be very reluctant to have only a vhf receiver. Sure there’s days we only listen to chat unimportant to us. Unlike many use the vhf only when forced to.
So it seems your view of the fractional improvement is very different than mine. I find it helpful nearly each and every day. You don’t. Others actively in the CG have expressed they would like more transceivers on pleasure boats. Multiple posters here have found it very helpful. So be it.

 

[Hippocampus]

Going both north and south on the AICW my transceiver has been helpful every single day. It’s allowed us to speed up or slow down to allow passes with commercial traffic in wider spots. Even gotten calls like “hey hippocampus might want to go real slow around your next bend. Lots of junk in the water here”. For years and years now it’s made timing entering tight spots like the exit from LIS into hell gate or transits of the east river so much easier. Especially now as the number of small fast ferries out of Brooklyn continues to increase.
My next door neighbor’s nephew is CG out of woods hole so we chat time to time. He has said “wish everyone had AIS “ ….. make my job easier”.
Maybe my fiends are a subset but transceivers have been a boon in our social life. Instead of passing near each other without knowledge of proximity in our travels we now get to see other or at least hav a vhf chat.
You comment its utility would be improved if more boaters had transceivers. Totally agree. So I’m here spending time encouraging others to get them. You seem to be here encouraging people to not get them. Can’t get my head around that. You seem to agree they improve safety. You seem to agree being seen (transceiver) improves safety even further. You say we’ve not shown you something you don’t know. Didn’t think anyone here had that as a goal. Know I didn’t. Thought the goal was to explore is a transceiver worth it.
You say I had no need. Never stated someone like you couldn’t travel safely without AIS or even imply it. But it’s not about you. It’s about the general boating public. Same with your traveling NJ-Fl with just a vhf receiver. Good on you. Many of the rest of us like to chat with the fuel dock or dock master before coming in. Hear which slip and when they want to put us there. Many of us on rare occasions ask commercial traffic where they want us, are we not interfering on our present course or/and if they agree to a pass now. Personally would be very reluctant to have only a vhf receiver. Sure there’s days we only listen to chat unimportant to us. Unlike many use the vhf only when forced to.
So it seems your view of the fractional improvement is very different than mine. I find it helpful nearly each and every day. You don’t. Others actively in the CG have expressed they would like more transceivers on pleasure boats. Multiple posters here have found it very helpful. So be it. Let the excellent prevent the good.
AIS- pros and cons. Lots of pros. No cons except cost.

 

[Davil1]

Ais

Only for those using AIS


Adding a PBL with AIS increases the chances of rescue in MOB situations IF you are boating in restricted visibility conditions, like night passages, dense fog, rough water conditions with waves hiding a person.

This in addition to EPIRB PBL.


A thought

Cost is minimal as compared to a loss of life.

 

[psneeld]

You know the old expression of " “You can shi* in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first.”.?

Well I have done my job, at least raising the concept that while a good tool in the toolbox, AIS is a tool that has incremenral value, less so to the vast majority of boaters and somewhat more so for serious cruisers.... this all coming from someone with some experience in the smaller boat world..

If chatting on the radio is a priority of yours, well.... I will end on that.