AIS Pros & Cons?

[Serene]

Pretty common place in our part of the world in risky areas - bar crossings, reef etc
They are a handy extra, but we always have the latest routes pre marked anyway, but the atons are a confirmation

On bar crossings they are a guide
Real life wave action on the day dictates the course.

Yes they had two of these setup at the Mooloolaba entrance not long ago as an alternate track, due to silting of the bar.

Now it has been dredged again they have been removed.

 

[Serene]

BTW I am installing an AIS transceiver as part of my current refit program. Lots of commercial shipping traffic in my area, so feel it will be very beneficial.

I can easily see the big ships on radar, but have no idea if they can always seem me, so AIS is being installed.

 

[markpierce]

...
On sail watching 360 is easy. You’re in an open cockpit so just turn your head. On power it can be more difficult as your view aft maybe obstructed. It’s what’s coming at you from behind that can be neglected.

Yes,

 

[markpierce]

Oh, and AIS won't help spot kayaks, canoes, and smallish boats, observed frequently in my waters.

 

[Flatswing]

When we have crew have repeatedly run into folks getting screen hypnosis. They’d take information from the screen as being more reliable than their 5 senses.

AIS neither improves or worsens screen hypnosis. The proximity alarms can be a PITA though especially near marinas & high traffic areas. I mute mine unless on long passages.
As an interesting aside, I recently took a tour of one of Azamara’s small (700 passenger) cruise ships. At sea, their quartermaster is forbidden to stand behind the bank of Nav screens. He/she may only look forward or sideways through the windows. Any sighting must be verbally confirmed with crew monitoring the screens & vice versa.

 

[psneeld]

AIS neither improves or worsens screen hypnosis. The proximity alarms can be a PITA though especially near marinas & high traffic areas. I mute mine unless on long passages.
As an interesting aside, I recently took a tour of one of Azamara’s small (700 passenger) cruise ships. At sea, their quartermaster is forbidden to stand behind the bank of Nav screens. He/she may only look forward or sideways through the windows. Any sighting must be verbally confirmed with crew monitoring the screens & vice versa.

Based on the amount of people posting on HOW IMPORTANT OF A SAFETY FEATURE AIS is...I disagree that people don't get to wrapped up in what it is trying to tell them.

I have a pretty good background in safety and human error and this would rate pretty high on my list in fair weather boating as a significant distraction over just eyeballing... if a person TRAINS themselves (which many recreational boaters no where come close to "training themselves") it is a better tool when integrated into the cross monitoring with RADAR in limited visibility (including river bends).

I have seen too many experienced (but not trained) boaters get so entranced into watching different parts of their console to be totally oblivious to their surroundings.

The huge part of electronics is either superior training and regular use if a solo helmsman (doesn't include non navigational competent crew) or the absolute must of division of duties if fortunate to have well trained and competent bridge crew.

Don't believe me?.... just look at the constant reporting of large commercial vessels, military vessels and larger pleasure craft with extensive electronic suites on them that collide or ground or have other nav issues nearly every day.

As far as calling vessels "with their name"....I don't know...seems like too many boaters think talking on the radio is more important than just simple avoiding collision situations in the first place.

 

[slowgoesit]

Yes,

Mark, I noticed you don't have your foul weather gear on! Don't you get cold, and get waves, and spray on you in your open cockpit without it?
Oh, wait, NEVER MIND!

 

[Bmarler]

There is a department in Canada that uses civilians on pender island to report vessels in the restricted zone. At first they only sent out threatening letters. This summer they actually sent out a fine. I got this data from a representative of the
Waggoner Publication. What legal enforcement for collecting the fine is unknown to me. In all known cases AIS was the cited evidence.

We have friends that we’re just contacted by Canadian authorities and threatened with a huge fine for going through there. Seriously big money.
They were tracked by their ais. When they called the agency to plead their case they also mentioned that they went through again on the way south. The agent says why in the world did you go through again? Friend replies, I didn’t know about the zone till I got your letter this morning…
He got off with a warning, but I wonder how long the grace period will last.

 

[SteveK]

How did they get mailing address? AIS mmsi registration.
Can you post that letter, of course blank out your friend info.

I travel the border line of the zone and have not had a call/letter so guess GPS is working.

 

[Bmarler]

How did they get mailing address? AIS mmsi registration.
Can you post that letter, of course blank out your friend info.

I travel the border line of the zone and have not had a call/letter so guess GPS is working.

I’ll see if they feel ok sharing it. If they kept it anyway. You never know, they might be getting another one because of the return trip on the same route.

 

[man7sell]

Seperate VHF Antenna or Shared?

Although my AIS transceiver has an antenna splitter built in, I am thinking of adding its own antenna.


Thoughts?

 

[SteveK]

Fix it until it is broken comes to mind.

 

[Comodave]

Although my AIS transceiver has an antenna splitter built in, I am thinking of adding its own antenna.


Thoughts?

Since VHF is a primary safety device I don’t like share its antenna with anything else. The cost of an antenna isn’t that much. Even a 4’ AIS antenna will work well.

 

[Simi 60]

Since VHF is a primary safety device I don’t like share its antenna with anything else. The cost of an antenna isn’t that much. Even a 4’ AIS antenna will work well.

The 3ft GLOMEX antenna with cable that we bought available in the US for $40 (cost about $70 in Oz)

Has worked a treat for several years on our setup.

https://www.glomexstore.com/classic/543-ra111ais-14cm-ais-antenna.html

 

[rwidman]

Pro-I can see you
Con-you can see me
No AIS here

Why would you not want other boats to see you?

The primary purpose of AIS is to be seen by other boats so they don't run into you.

 

[rwidman]

Ours has a setting for target speeds; less than X usually weeds out all the docked vessels.

-Chris

If you set your AIS to ignore slow or stopped boats, you will not see anchored boats. You are turning off part of the safety features of AIS.

 

[rwidman]

The best safety gear since radar. Get a transceiver so you can broadcast your position also. Don't leave the dock with out it.

Thank you all for your great inputs. I will purchase a transponder that goes with my Garmin system.


Now about the government paperwork needed, difficult?

"Transceiver".

A "transponder" transmits a signal in response to a request by another station (they are used in airplanes). A "transceiver" transmits and receives without a request from another station.

There is no government paperwork. In the USA, all the paperwork must be done by the seller. You do have to supply information to the seller, but it is not complicated.

 

[rwidman]

Hard to make AIS mandatory when anchors, VHFs and bilge pumps aren't.

More likely to get insurance companies to chime in and state level participation like Florida who gives a discount on boat registration if you have a PLB/EPIRB.

Most states haven't even been able to make boater education mandatory.

It's a bit strange how the government has mandated things in cars like seat belts and even tire pressure sensors, but left boats completely unregulated.

Pretty much the only requirements for boats are PFDs, navigation lights and a fire extinguisher.

Personally, I would be in favor of requiring AIS on all commercial vessels and all recreational vessels over 25' in length. Maybe 30' in length.

 

[rwidman]

I have obtained my MMSI certificate and filled out the data programming log. Also purchased the Garmin AIS 800.


Q. Can you program these units your self?

Not in the USA. And they have no provisions for user programing.

 

[rwidman]

My AIS installer does not recommend posting a pic of your boat for security reasons.
In salt water that makes sense due to pirates and kidnapping.

There is not a lot of piracy and kidnapping happening in USA waters where I boat.

Probably a greater concern would be spending the night at some city docks and marinas in the more questionable parts of town.

 

[rwidman]

As I posted before..... AM/VHF radios have been around for the 60 years of boating I have been doing and they are still not required until you get to 65 feet.

AIS has been reviewed as required equipment several times already and still under 65 feet and some commercial vessels have been excluded both times I know of.

A 25' tug can be pushing a 60' barge and not be required to have AIS.

 

[rwidman]

Oh, and AIS won't help spot kayaks, canoes, and smallish boats, observed frequently in my waters.

AIS won't spot any vessel that is not transmitting AIS. I have passed many very large and expensive recreational boats that were not transmitting an AIS signal.

Hopefully, more people will come to realize the value of AIS and install it voluntarily. Or, we can hope the government will make it mandatory on larger vessels.

 

[OldDan1943]

And that is why RADAR is more important than AIS.

 

[jgtrucking]

All in, AIS receive... No downsides. Added info, that you can choose to turn off if you don't need it. On US rivers and near ports, it is pretty darn nice to have. Transmit? Well we have it, no you don't NEED it... but again, on those same rivers it is nice to be seen as well as see around those corners.It can be switched off when in port, or if you just so choose.

There is no good reason for it to be mandated. Maintenance of it cannot be mandated, or well not enforced anyway. Oh it was working when we left port this morning... So even if it were mandated, you cannot depend on the vessel showing up on your screen. You still must use your eyes first and foremost.

 

[rwidman]

And that is why RADAR is more important than AIS.

Radar and AIS perform different functions. It's not one or the other.

 

[psneeld]

A 25' tug can be pushing a 60' barge and not be required to have AIS.

Correct... and often a totally unsuitable platform to do the job due to hp.

When I questioned a senior USCG representative (not a uniformed member but a civilian)...I asked why if I could legally drive a 100 ton tugboat with 2000hp, why was I required to use a 2.5 ton, 350hp, 26 foot Shamrock to move around 120-150 foot barges, some weighing over 750,000 pounds?

The answer was I was allowed to ONLY drive tugs under 25 feet (100 ton master) when actually towing for hire and that based on my experience of which none of the crazy moving the mountain stuff with a donkey cart counted because I wasn't under the supervision of a Master of Tow captain for any of those 15 years to upgrade. But I could feel free to drive around any tug up to 100 gross ton and do whatever I wanted except tow something...which tug/tow boats generally are designed to do.

And you guys are worried small tug/towboats aren't broadcasting on AIS? They should be broadcasting "barely under control" (similar to "not under command") signals much of the time.

Yet companies with their own tugs and barges where the tugs are under 26 feet....don't even need a captains license. That's not a red flag in some cases?

No, I don't see the government making AIS mandatory for awhile, because if they do, they have to mandate VHFs for all vessels otherwise calling people without radios is a fun thing to do. As I said, if anyone here (and in the US) thinks AIS is a bigger safety item than an anchor which still isn't mandatory.... I just can't figure out most TFers.

My understanding is AIS is primarily a collision avoidance tool....so is RADAR... and RADAR sees obstructions including most ATON above the water and well as most boats. Trouble with RADAR is it takes skill over AIS to be adept at using it. Sure they both can do things the other can't but AIS only sees what is transmitting which in coastal US waters ain't a lot...and most that are show up on radar or are in predictable waters are ones you can avoid. If receiving only, call the target and advise them of YOUR position and intentions. now they know where you are.

 

[SteveK]

Why would you not want other boats to see you?

The primary purpose of AIS is to be seen by other boats so they don't run into you.

Do you really believe what you are saying?
Pity the boats in front of you who without AIS will let you run into them

 

[ranger58sb]

If you set your AIS to ignore slow or stopped boats, you will not see anchored boats. You are turning off part of the safety features of AIS.

Good point.

But I should have said our setting can turn off audible alarms for slow or stopped boats... so we can still see them all on the display.

An audible alarm might be useful if we were to be in an area where an anchored boat might take us by surprise, but we make the trade-off of silencing the bazillions of alarms we'd hear when we enter a busy marina.

-Chris

 

[man7sell]

Not in the USA. And they have no provisions for user programing.

The Garmin unit I bought, you can download the programming app. It was easy to program, a lot easier than the Flight Management Computers I have programmed for 747s

 

[SteveK]

Good point.

But I should have said our setting can turn off audible alarms for slow or stopped boats... so we can still see them all on the display.

An audible alarm might be useful if we were to be in an area where an anchored boat might take us by surprise, but we make the trade-off of silencing the bazillions of alarms we'd hear when we enter a busy marina.

-Chris

Now that is funny