Anchor Wars come to Georgia

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AS a future cruiser through GA, I really do not know what to do and where to anchor.

Tim

Tim:
If you're looking for descriptions of the anchorages, go to the usual sources like Waterway Guide, Active Captain and Cruisers' Net.
If you're looking for where anchoring overnight is now disallowed, go to the GA DNR website where they have the zones available as an overlay "as a guide". You can find that here: https://coastalgadnr.org/Liveaboards
 
Taken from another forum, but this is a good video to watch to begin to see what has happened


AS a future cruiser through GA, I really do not know what to do and where to anchor.

Tim

Tim, I am over on the south side of the Trent across from the western end of Trent Woods. I'd be happy to walk you through the charts and suitable anchorages. While there are some spots that are going to run afoul of the new regulations, there are still many lovely anchorages in Georgia to enjoy.

Not to mention, in the wilderness areas it's not like Georgia is going to invest in a whole new squadron of boats and officers to police all the backwaters.

I do want to commend the work many boaters are doing to protest this idiot law.
 
Not GA, but here is an example of a problem being addressed from the wrong direction in Florida. I also posted this on the MTOA site:


Recent article on CNN reports that over 206 million gallons of raw sewage had spilled into Ft. Lauderdale city waterways over the last several months from aging/broken pipes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/18/us/fort-lauderdale-sewage-waterways-fine-penalties-trnd/index.html

Also that the city is facing a $1.8 million fine for the spillage . . . . so let's see, $1.8 million fine, divided by a minimum of 206 million gallons spilled (some sources report 211 million gallons), multiplied by a holding tank of, say, 40 gallons would equate to a fine for a boater emptying a FULL 40 gallon tank, of, drumroll please, $00.3459 . . . less than 1/2 of one American Cent!
I venture to say that anyone who pulls up in front of a harbor patrol boat and openly dumps a 40 gallon waste tank would be in for a slightly larger fine . . .
And boaters are the problem with water quality being so poor . . . .

I sincerely hope that pressure can be brought to bear on actual issues, with corrective action applied to those actual issues instead of emotion being used to hoodwink the public into accepting laws that profess to do one thing, but are passed to do/and address an entirely different issue . . .

Great work on the part of concerned individuals and groups on address the GA anchoring problem and current law in effect! Now constant vigilance is the key to keeping this from crimping a wonderful lifestyle.
 
Legislators must rely on subject matter experts and lobbyists to understand what is put before them, I get that. But how did House Bill get overwhelming support in the House (Yea 162 Nay 1 NV 8 Exc 9) and Senate (Yea 45 Nay 0 NV 4 Exc 7)?
(Ref: http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/enUS/display/20192020/HB/201)

Here is how HB 201 Sponsor Rep Hogan presented it in the House. Video by Georgia Public Broadcasting

https://youtu.be/pQKbiEDGOkY?t=1018

My brother in law has been a government lobbyist for a very large construction company that specializes in government contracting jobs for twenty years. My best friend from high school was the chief lobbyist for a large casino group for many years.

I've had a lot of conversations with them over beers about what they do and how they get the legislation passed that they want passed. And, none of it is about educating legislators. It's all about writing checks. Both have described their job to me as really nothing but bagmen.

Both have told me of times, where the solicitation for money by legislators, local, state and federal, was so overt, that they were afraid that they being set up by the FBI. It's what the job is.

We're not going to talk, or educate, these guys into doing anything for us. Join groups that lobby them to not harm boating, and who will do that unpleasant thing that is necessary, for us.
 
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It’s the Golden Rule: those with the gold make the rules. Out of state boaters don’t contribute to Ga. politicians and don’t vote in Ga. elections. That means they are invisible to the lawmakers, it is as simple as that. The marina owners and boating service businesses have a financial stake and they do live there, it is up to them to solicit contributions to a Political Action Committee (PAC) from all concerned and use those funds to influence (buy/bribe) the legislature.

This is how government works in America in 2020. Remember: the Citizens United decision has enshrined money as equaling speech. If you have no money, you have no voice, so how much is each transiting cruiser prepared to spend: $5, $20 or what?
 
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As you've heard, last year's House Bill 201 became law on 1/1/2020 and now Georgia has the distinction of having the nation's most restrictive anchoring laws, stripping away the right to freely navigate on the waters the state holds in public trust. This impacts not only Georgia boaters but every boater, both domestic and international, who plans to navigate through Georgia waters.

HB201 was a complex and flawed hodge podge of regulations, but was sold in the House and the Senate at an absurdly high level of simplification, leaving out key components that were objectionable to boaters, and focusing instead on water quality and revitalization of a local shellfish industry.

So as we look to HB833 to remedy the wrongs of HB201, we must be able now to sell those points to our legislators under the gold dome of Atlanta. A core group of boating rights advocates have started a Georgia Anchoring Advocacy Fund to engage the services of a lobbyist to do exactly this. So far we have received support from:

America’s Great Loop Cruisers’ Association (AGLCA),
Facebook Group Save Georgia's Anchorages
Waterway Guide

This is every boater's fight. What is happening in Georgia can happen in your cruising waters. No amount is too small. Please consider supporting the fund at: http://www.greatloop.org/georgia
 
All good points above. But there are also yacht clubs (Savannah has a very nice one) and Georgia residents who cruise those waters; we met a lot of locals when anchored out.
 
There now a facebook page on this subject. Interesting read.Search:

Save Georgia's Anchorages
 
Brunswick Landing Marina

It would seem this marina doesn't want any of your business if you have issues with the new law.
 

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It would seem this marina doesn't want any of your business if you have issues with the new law.

What a short sighted idiot. We anchored out a bunch in Georgia, that's one of the things we loved about it. And used to love staying at Brunswick Landing for a day or two while we were at it. Used to be a nice facility and great crew.

He ought to take a poll of his tenants and transients before shooting his mouth off. I hope everyone who likes to anchor out in Georgia takes his advice and avoids using his marina.
 
What a moron! Our issue is with the State of Georgia who passed this law. Either you are with us in opposition or you are tacitly approving. By not taking some of the money we give him and using it to get this bad law changed he has chosen a side and by telling those who oppose the regulation to pass by he has now gone public in his support.
 
Legislators must rely on subject matter experts and lobbyists to understand what is put before them, I get that. But how did House Bill get overwhelming support in the House (Yea 162 Nay 1 NV 8 Exc 9) and Senate (Yea 45 Nay 0 NV 4 Exc 7)?
(Ref: http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/enUS/display/20192020/HB/201)

Here is how HB 201 Sponsor Rep Hogan presented it in the House. Video by Georgia Public Broadcasting

https://youtu.be/pQKbiEDGOkY?t=1018


That was pathethic! No questions, no discussion. The presenter only generalized the parts no one would argue with.
 

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As you've heard, last year's House Bill 201 became law on 1/1/2020 and now Georgia has the distinction of having the nation's most restrictive anchoring laws, stripping away the right to freely navigate on the waters the state holds in public trust. This impacts not only Georgia boaters but every boater, both domestic and international, who plans to navigate through Georgia waters.

HB201 was a complex and flawed hodge podge of regulations, but was sold in the House and the Senate at an absurdly high level of simplification, leaving out key components that were objectionable to boaters, and focusing instead on water quality and revitalization of a local shellfish industry.

So as we look to HB833 to remedy the wrongs of HB201, we must be able now to sell those points to our legislators under the gold dome of Atlanta. A core group of boating rights advocates have started a Georgia Anchoring Advocacy Fund to engage the services of a lobbyist to do exactly this. So far we have received support from:

America’s Great Loop Cruisers’ Association (AGLCA),
Facebook Group Save Georgia's Anchorages
Waterway Guide

This is every boater's fight. What is happening in Georgia can happen in your cruising waters. No amount is too small. Please consider supporting the fund at: http://www.greatloop.org/georgia


Curious what the $$ cost of one lawmakers vote on this type of bill is in Atlanta these days?
 
The marinas are in favor of this ???

Per dumping of the black water........ I cannot find a difference between now and the federal rules.
 
Wealthy suburbanites move out of the suburbs to enjoy a rural, in this case a riparian lifestyle. Just like the acreage buyers who try to stop their neighbours farming on land that has been farmed for generations, these river property buyers want to stop the traditional users of the rivers from their time-honoured pursuits , because of the impact on their view, of all things. They leave the suburbs, but take their suburban values with them. Hopefully the outcry will be sufficiently loud to reverse the legislation, or at least leave the enforcement unfunded so that the law becomes a dead letter.
 
The marinas are in favor of this ???

Per dumping of the black water........ I cannot find a difference between now and the federal rules.

At least one Marina has decided not to fight against it. They have thrown up their hands and shrugged their shoulders. The result of no opposition is that the law stands and they perhaps will make more money since a percentage of those who used to pass by their marina and anchor will now stop and rent a slip for the night.

If you cannot transit Georgia without stopping and you cannot anchor, then who benefits: those who provide slips for rent. It’s not really surprising that marinas would be quietly in favor of this, they just don’t want to alienate their customers by admitting it. The guy from Brunswick just screwed up by saying the quiet part out loud.
 
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As you've heard, last year's House Bill 201 became law on 1/1/2020 and now Georgia has the distinction of having the nation's most restrictive anchoring laws, stripping away the right to freely navigate on the waters the state holds in public trust. This impacts not only Georgia boaters but every boater, both domestic and international, who plans to navigate through Georgia waters.

HB201 was a complex and flawed hodge podge of regulations, but was sold in the House and the Senate at an absurdly high level of simplification, leaving out key components that were objectionable to boaters, and focusing instead on water quality and revitalization of a local shellfish industry.

So as we look to HB833 to remedy the wrongs of HB201, we must be able now to sell those points to our legislators under the gold dome of Atlanta. A core group of boating rights advocates have started a Georgia Anchoring Advocacy Fund to engage the services of a lobbyist to do exactly this. So far we have received support from:

America’s Great Loop Cruisers’ Association (AGLCA),
Facebook Group Save Georgia's Anchorages
Waterway Guide

This is every boater's fight. What is happening in Georgia can happen in your cruising waters. No amount is too small. Please consider supporting the fund at: http://www.greatloop.org/georgia

In the last 24hrs, more organizations have stepped forward making a commitment for financial support. These are:

In the last day, we've received additional commitments for financial support from:

America’s Great Loop Cruisers’ Association (AGLCA)
Cruisers' Net
DeFever Cruisers
Facebook Group Save Georgia's Anchorages
Marine Trawlers Owners Association (MTOA)
Sevens Seas Cruising Association (SSCA)
Waterway Guide
and many supporters without official affiliations, including several from non US cruisers!
 
My brother in law has been a government lobbyist for a very large construction company that specializes in government contracting jobs for twenty years. My best friend from high school was the chief lobbyist for a large casino group for many years.

I've had a lot of conversations with them over beers about what they do and how they get the legislation passed that they want passed. And, none of it is about educating legislators. It's all about writing checks. Both have described their job to me as really nothing but bagmen.

Both have told me of times, where the solicitation for money by legislators, local, state and federal, was so overt, that they were afraid that they being set up by the FBI. It's what the job is.

We're not going to talk, or educate, these guys into doing anything for us. Join groups that lobby them to not harm boating, and who will do that unpleasant thing that is necessary, for us.


We now have a registered lobbyist in Atlanta, thanks to the Georgia Anchoring Advocacy Fund that has been setup.
 
Thanks for posting the link. I just made a contribution, how am I sure AGLCA is seeing this as a donation to the Georgia effort? Seems generic, and I want the money to go solely to the Georgia campaign.
 

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Thanks for posting the link. I just made a contribution, how am I sure AGLCA is seeing this as a donation to the Georgia effort? Seems generic, and I want the money to go solely to the Georgia campaign.


Thanks for your support. The URL is specific to the Georgia Advocacy Fund. The AGLCA accountants are tracking this separately.
 
That is quite an unfortunate message to send out. When HB201 was scribed, an "economic impact analysis" was performed, and GA DNR thought it may steer more business to the marinas.

Link to full docs: (image of relevant page attached)
https://coastalgadnr.org/sites/defa...ug19 391-2-3 & 391-4-5 CRD WRD LC Package.pdf

So if Brunswick Landing marina feels this way, how many other marinas in GA feel the same way. This new law could and I say could generate additional money for marinas as cruisers would seek a slip for the night versus dropping an anchor.
 
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So if Brunswick Landing marina feels this way, how many other marinas in GA feel the same way. This new law could and I say could generate additional money for marinas as cruisers would seek a slip for the night versus dropping an anchor.

I feel for the marinas (but not for MT rude comment) as I feel they will actually lose money with boaters voting to bypass Ga. Robert Sherer (aka Bob423) conducted a poll over on his FB page and 77% of respondents said they would 'go around'. Marinas, yards, restaurants, chandleries along Ga may be hurt, but in a sense, they are as much the victims of these regs as the boaters.
 
Well, Brunswick Landing Marina will no longer get my business. As for anchoring I will anchor wherever I please as long as it is safe. For those who have anchored in remote places, think for a moment. It's REMOTE. At the end of the day, no LEO is going to spend time looking for a POSSIBLE violator of that illegal law and risk having to return many miles to port in the dark. The LEO will be tied up sucking down a brew. Arrive late in the day, leave at first light and sleep tight. In the meantime, the law must be vigorously opposed. If a LEO does happen to come along, well, I just pulled up to do an emergency repair, bad load of fuel don't you know.

Getting back to Brunswick Landing Marina, my guess is that this guy saw this as good for his business. He badly miscalculated. Plus, it won't matter whether or not this law is repealed. He has lost my business for good. Businesses, once having lost customers, rarely recapture those customers. What a fool. America's soybean and pork producers will soon be learning this lesson if some have not already.

BTW, I am no scofflaw but this law is just plain nonsense.
 
Well, Brunswick Landing Marina will no longer get my business. As for anchoring I will anchor wherever I please as long as it is safe. For those who have anchored in remote places, think for a moment. It's REMOTE. At the end of the day, no LEO is going to spend time looking for a POSSIBLE violator of that illegal law and risk having to return many miles to port in the dark. The LEO will be tied up sucking down a brew. Arrive late in the day, leave at first light and sleep tight. In the meantime, the law must be vigorously opposed. If a LEO does happen to come along, well, I just pulled up to do an emergency repair, bad load of fuel don't you know.

Getting back to Brunswick Landing Marina, my guess is that this guy saw this as good for his business. He badly miscalculated. Plus, it won't matter whether or not this law is repealed. He has lost my business for good. Businesses, once having lost customers, rarely recapture those customers. What a fool. America's soybean and pork producers will soon be learning this lesson if some have not already.

BTW, I am no scofflaw but this law is just plain nonsense.

I have gone back several times and read the dialogue and I think several of you are greatly overreacting to what they said. Now, I think what he said is unfortunate, but he was simply saying not to blame the anchoring law on him. Then when the other person said the marina should work to get it changed and took an adversary voice with the marina, that's when the marina owner, unfortunately, said if he was going to come with that attitude, blaming him, then he'd prefer he not come.

At no point did he say he didn't want those opposed to the law to come. Simply he didn't want a person attacking him and blaming him for the law to come. We also don't know what took place between the two persons prior to the part cut and pasted. I don't even know where this discussion took place, but it was between two people and antagonistic.

I don't know either individual but I'm not going to go to or to avoid a marina based on that conversation. The marina didn't say they didn't want any business, just didn't want that persons if that was going to be their attitude.
 
This is fun....


1. The difference in sanitation laws is the people with type 1 and 2 MSDs can no longer use them.


2. There are plenty of anchoring spots and so few marinas (usually a pretty high occupancy rate) I doubt the marinas will care and people wishing to anchor can still do it without that much fuss (and it will force marinas to keep their pumpouts in better order).


3. FLETC (Federal Law Enfocement Training Center) is located in Georgia. They have a whole syllabus of running through a LOT of Georgia waterways many cruisers would consider remote. Anchor lights can be seen for miles and easily reported as part of the syllabus. Plus most of the Law enforcement guys I know have no problems running at night in boats that can easily go where most of us aren't going to take trawlers. There is a USCG Air Station in Savannah. They would have no problem reporting anchor lights to Georgia LE. All it takes is a couple of weeks of sweeps with the fines (not sure if anyone ever found out what they might be) and the word spreading through the boating world and papers to make boaters think twice. I still think there are plenty of places to anchor to get upset about it.


4. The word generally out in most of these anchoring restriction laws is NOT to hurt the cruiser...but the freeloader with bad habits. I am NOT worried so much with this actual law...as the slippery slope if they try and add back in stuff like the permits and goofy stuff in other laws that have been passed.
 
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When this all started, I emailed the marina expressing my dismay and concerns. Never got a response. Take from that what you may.
I have gone back several times and read the dialogue and I think several of you are greatly overreacting to what they said. Now, I think what he said is unfortunate, but he was simply saying not to blame the anchoring law on him. Then when the other person said the marina should work to get it changed and took an adversary voice with the marina, that's when the marina owner, unfortunately, said if he was going to come with that attitude, blaming him, then he'd prefer he not come.

At no point did he say he didn't want those opposed to the law to come. Simply he didn't want a person attacking him and blaming him for the law to come. We also don't know what took place between the two persons prior to the part cut and pasted. I don't even know where this discussion took place, but it was between two people and antagonistic.

I don't know either individual but I'm not going to go to or to avoid a marina based on that conversation. The marina didn't say they didn't want any business, just didn't want that persons if that was going to be their attitude.
 
Psneeld, I know you know of what you speak but do you think this is a mission for the Coasties? Why would they care? Why would they spend precious time and resources performing a mission not theirs? Sure, they are comfortable running in the dark but are the local LEOs, the ones responsible for enforcemment of this stupid law? Also, after dark, how would they determine if a boat is in compliance with the 1,000 foot rule.

Here's another question I have not seen raised. What is the measuring point? The anchor location or the boat location. The law does not define it.
This is fun....


1. The difference in sanitation laws is the people with type 1 and 2 MSDs can no longer use them.


2. There are plenty of anchoring spots and so few marinas (usually a pretty high occupancy rate) I doubt the marinas will care and people wishing to anchor can still do it without that much fuss (and it will force marinas to keep their pumpouts in better order).


3. FLETC (Federal Law Enfocement Training Center) is located in Georgia. They have a whole syllabus of running through a LOT of Georgia waterways many cruisers would consider remote. Anchor lights can be seen for miles and easily reported as part of the syllabus. Plus most of the Law enforcement guys I know have no problems running at night in boats that can easily go where most of us aren't going to take trawlers. There is a USCG Air Station in Savannah. They would have no problem reporting anchor lights to Georgia LE. All it takes is a couple of weeks of sweeps with the fines (not sure if anyone ever found out what they might be) and the word spreading through the boating world and papers to make boaters think twice. I still think there are plenty of places to anchor to get upset about it.


4. The word generally out in most of these anchoring restriction laws is NOT to hurt the cruiser...but the freeloader with bad habits. I am NOT worried so much with this actual law...as the slippery slope if they try and add back in stuff like the permits and goofy stuff in other laws that have been passed.
 
When this all started, I emailed the marina expressing my dismay and concerns. Never got a response. Take from that what you may.

In that I don't know the nature of your email or who it went to, I really can't take anything from it.
 
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