Are We Getting Invaded?' U.S. Boats Faced Russian Aggression Near Alaska

[MYTraveler]

Which should be expected given the somewhat unstable conditions these days.

Every new president gets tested. We can expect similar (or worse) aggression in other parts of the world, starting with the South China Sea. And the aggression won't be limited to territorial infringement.

 

[Northern Spy]

Every new president gets tested. We can expect similar (or worse) aggression in other parts of the world, starting with the South China Sea. And the aggression won't be limited to territorial infringement.

Yup.

But the news event happened in August and was published by the NYT in November, post election.

Could just as easily be the Coast Guard or the Air Force drumming up some public awareness of the Russian incursions to create a public demand for new ice breakers or planes, as the article "suggests". 4th quarter everyone is thinking about next year's budget, particularly with a new administration.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yup.

But the news event happened in August and was published by the NYT in November, post election.

Could just as easily be the Coast Guard or the Air Force drumming up some public awareness of the Russian incursions to create a public demand for new ice breakers or planes, as the article "suggests". 4th quarter everyone is thinking about next year's budget, particularly with a new administration.

Yup, just like NASA and their recent discovery, water on the moon and water on Mars. Their way of saying, 'Give us more money so we can investigate this further.'

 

[rgano]

Yup, just like NASA and their recent discovery, water on the moon and water on Mars. Their way of saying, 'Give us more money so we can investigate this further.'

Oh, don't get me started on manned space flights of fancy.

 

[psneeld]

Recent news release....

"The Coast Guard is recapitalizing its polar icebreaker fleet to ensure continued access to both polar regions and support the country's economic, commercial, maritime and national security needs.

The operational polar fleet currently includes one 399-foot heavy icebreaker (Coast Guard Cutter Polar Star, commissioned in 1976) and one 420-foot medium icebreaker (Coast Guard Cutter Healy, commissioned in 2000). These cutters are designed for open-water icebreaking and feature reinforced hulls and specially angled bows.

Polar Star underwent a three-year reactivation and returned to operations in late 2013. Since then, Polar Star has completed six Operation Deep Freeze deployments to resupply McMurdo Station in Antarctica.

Why this program?
The United States has vital national interests in the polar regions. Polar security cutters (PSCs) enable the U.S. to maintain defense readiness in the Arctic and Antarctic regions; enforce treaties and other laws needed to safeguard both industry and the environment; provide ports, waterways and coastal security; and provide logistical support – including vessel escort – to facilitate the movement of goods and personnel necessary to support scientific research, commerce, national security activities and maritime safety.

The Coast Guard needs six new PSCs to ensure national year-round access to the polar regions and to provide self-rescue capability.

How is the Coast Guard addressing the need for more polar icebreaking capability?
The Coast Guard and U.S. Navy, through an integrated program office, on April 23, 2019, awarded VT Halter Marine Inc., of Pascagoula, Mississippi, a fixed price incentive (firm) contract for the detail, design and construction of the lead PSC. Construction on the first PSC is planned to begin in 2021 with delivery planned for 2024. The contract includes financial incentives for earlier delivery."

https://www.dcms.uscg.mil/Our-Organ...9/Programs/Surface-Programs/Polar-Icebreaker/

 

[OldDan1943]

psneeld,
That 'fixed price' is only good unless the mission changes or there is a significant change in the mission or upgraded electronics. We have seen it before.

 

[Peter Keating]

Whitiker Walt.....

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,


Muriel Everet...One of my favorites.

 

[GFC]

When I was stationed in AK (Elmendorf AFB) in the early 70's the Russians used to fly their "Bear" aircraft directly toward AK. We would scramble F4's up to meet them. The planes would fly alongside each other in the ADIZ and the crews on each nation's aircraft would take photos of each other, then each nation's aircraft would turn and head for home.

Not much different except this is happening at sea.

 

[trawlercap]

1980, we beat the Russians at hockey. Fishing the Bering Sea (my 1st year) we were buzzed by US fighters. They had Hockey Sticks painted top and bottom full length on their wings....

As Capt. of a 115' research vessel, I spent 3 days within 50 meters of the border in the Bering Straits. I had my eyes glued to the GPS plotter. I was shadowed by a Russian Military ship. The few radio calls were all business. I learned later, people above me wanted me to stay on the line.

 

[Lou_tribal]

One question ( sorry this is stupid question reflecting my level of IQ ).
What makes you think anybody would like to invade you?

L

 

[Nomad Willy]

Eric was obviously exaggerating to make a point; Russians will just keep pushing, like all bullies.

Indeed I was.
And as you say rgano they never let up. There’re always pushing. They meaning Putin.
I remember all the Russian leaders from J Stalin. Stalin was a terrible man and Putin isn’t much better.

But I don’t think Russia will get close and launch a nuclear attack on western Washington State. I spent over 3 years as an electronic technician for anti-submarine warfare. That was in 1963 and incredible advances must have been made since then. We were flying WW II aircraft but we had some clever electronics .. even then.

We need to be aware but I was not trying to alarm ... sorry.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Greetings,


Muriel Everet...One of my favorites.

Dora Merande, an incredibly prolific actress, performed in everything from Our Town on Broadway to Mister Peepers on TV.


Here's a pop quiz: The Russian submarine captain had previous experience. Explain.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. AP. Golly. I had to look that one up.


"Had played submarine officers from three different European navies: as the executive officer of a German World War II U-Boat in the film The Enemy Below (1957); as retired World War I Austro-Hungarian U-Boat Captain Georg Von Trapp in the original 1959 Broadway production of The Sound of Music (1965); and as the captain of a Soviet submarine during the Cold War in the film The Russians Are Coming the Russians Are Coming (1966)."


Above is from IMDb. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000942/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm


Thanks.

 

[FF]

"We were flying WW II aircraft but we had some clever electronics .. even then."

The SP2H , P2v7, known as a Neptune of that era was old and not comfortable but it had a fantastic advantage over the aircraft that replaced it.

As a true military build aircraft the P2 was strong enough to drop a Nuke depth charge or torpedo and have the aircraft , and crew survive.

The P3 had the same survival as a chopper, NONE .

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
IMO, mutually assured destruction is enough of a deterrent for the MAJOR powers that they will never nuke each other (I hope). It's the smaller states and rogue wackos one has to fear in regards bombing. (VERY simplified statement).


What one has to worry about is China. NO theatrics or bombs. Velvet invasion. The frog in the saucepan strategy.

 

[Zoar]

Atomic Bomb Missile Rocket Weapons would even scarier.

 

[OldDan1943]

The world shuddered with Israel developed their very own nuclear warhead. "Everyone" knew they would use it as a first strike against the Arab nations.
Israel was/is mature enough not to do that.
We dont hear anything about their warhead anymore.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Greetings,
Mr. AP. Golly. I had to look that one up.


"Had played submarine officers from three different European navies: as the executive officer of a German World War II U-Boat in the film The Enemy Below (1957); as retired World War I Austro-Hungarian U-Boat Captain Georg Von Trapp in the original 1959 Broadway production of The Sound of Music (1965); and as the captain of a Soviet submarine during the Cold War in the film The Russians Are Coming the Russians Are Coming (1966)."


Above is from IMDb. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000942/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm


Thanks.

Excellent! I remembered him as Leutnant Hanni Swoffer, but was unaware he was the original Capitan von Trapp. You sent me to Wiki where I learned he had played Tevya the Milkman more than any other actor.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Greetings,
Mr. AP. Golly. I had to look that one up.


"Had played submarine officers from three different European navies:

Thanks.

Another droll little nugget in the film: When Walt Whitaker bicycles into the village he encounters car loads of fear-crazed yokels. One of the vehicles looks like a perfect replica of the Joads' overladen truck setting out from Oklahoma. Coincide or homage?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Old Dan wrote;
“The world shuddered with Israel developed their very own nuclear warhead. "Everyone" knew they would use it as a first strike against the Arab nations.
Israel was/is mature enough not to do that.
We dont hear anything about their warhead anymore.”

There are quite a few nations now w nuclear weapons and going fwd there will be many more. And after that many more. Some nation will break the wall down and use a nuclear weapon on another nation. It will be so. No one can dispute that. It could be next weekend.

FF I remember the P2v Neptune, a WWII bomber converted to an ASW aircraft. Yes it was very uncomfortable. To get from the aft end of the plane to the fwd end one needed to crawl on hands, knees and belly as the big wing went right through the middle of the fuselage. ASW maneuvers required flying in extreme attitudes only about 20’ above the water ... for hours.
I was an electronic technician and worked on the planes (mostly night check) and in the shop. That was in the early 60’s. I can only guess what electronic tricks they use now but I’m sure it’s way beyond what we had/did in the day. And yes they were nuclear bomb capable.
Living somewhat near Seattle prompts me to wonder how they’re doing re all the possible enemies that could be lurking out there.

 

[Northern Spy]

The newest technology is to use airborne HD radar to look for the surface wakes of submerged submarines amongst all of the waves, swell and sea clutter. Powerful computers at work there.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Spy,
There ya go.
That’s tech we didn’t possess in the 60’s.
But we could do things you would think amazing if I was to tell you.
I worked mostly on sonobuoys.
The Orion .. the Neptunes successor .. flies over our marina in LaConner Wa very often. US ASW is alive and well.

 

[Northern Spy]

It's brand spanking new technology.

It was a running joke on the sub I was on for the topside watch (in port, tied to the peir) to call the duty officer below when a P3 flew overhead to report it's presence and suggest that they MAY have spotted us.

After two or three days bobbing around at shallow depth just off of the Strait of Juan de Fuca playing the "bad guys" in ASW ops, the skipper finally ordered the diving officer to broach the ship so the Canadian and US P3s could find us. The second time he made the order, (didn't find us the first time) he had the planesman cycle the fairwater planes, as if we were waving at them.

This was so we could get on with our liberty port of Esquimalt for a few days.

 

[OldDan1943]

Sub captains do not like their boat to be used as a target.

The 627 played target, per orders. Once pinged, he satisfied his orders and between the sailplanes, stern planes and rudder, rolled that sub almost on its side. We immediately left the area.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Our P2v’s at times dropped small explosives on subs kinda like hitting not only the bulls eye but the center of it. On one occasion we dropped one into the conning tower.
And although I never heard of any submariners complaints I can well imagine an explosion right over one’s head in a submersed vessel would be “unnerving”. But I don’t recall anybody telling “us” to loose our aim a bit.

 

[OldDan1943]

Nomad, when ordered to be a target, the boat was not permitted to hide nor take evasive action. Just hang out and dont do anything that might destroy the morale of the ASW seeker.
So there, pfpfpfpf

 

[AlaskaProf]

I recently read an interesting factoid. In the entire Battle of the Atlantic, there was no record of an aircrew participating in more than one ASW attack. In other words, there was no such thing as an experienced crew.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Dan wrote;
“So there, pfpfpfpf”

Sorry didn’t mean to start a food fight.

But rumor was that once they (no longer we) blew the conning tower hatch off.
A little above the run of the mill day but BAU.
Just scuttlebutt though.

 

[FF]

PDC "practice depth charges"were dropped to localize a sub. The noise created would bounce off the bottom , and then hopefully off the target.

With 4 sono buoys it was possible to create an entrapment circle and perhaps resolve the location of the target.

No one flew for hours at 20 ft , 200 ft was only used after a" Mad Man" call ( the aircraft magnetic anomaly detector located the metal hull ) and a torpedo would be launched ,hopefully on the vessels current course.

AS the P2 had heat but no air cond 2000 ft was hunting altitude in southern waters.

I had 1,000+ hours as pilot in Neptunes, 1960's. .