BC Flooding

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Here`s a report in the Australian media. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11...l-non-essential-travel-after-floods/100637016.
Clearly severe flooding with significant property damage and risk to life. The cost of rectification after the flood subsides must be enormous.
Best wishes to everyone affected, all of BC I imagine. Let us all fervently hope ASD`s recreational cruising pleasure is in no way affected.
 
Thank you BruceK.
The farmers of the Fraser Valley have been seriously affected; the loss of livestock and chickens is horrendous.

Small towns, away from the comfort of the major cities have taken crippling gut punches.
https://tinyurl.com/35aku86s
https://youtu.be/ZEEJMawDiFQ

In the middle of one of the flood zones a fire broke out at Canada’s largest RV dealership. Our taken for granted first responders dealt with it relatively quickly, but not before a German tourist, bemoaned the possible loss of their 2022 holiday RV rental.
https://tinyurl.com/47wuexxc

And the finger pointing begins:
https://tinyurl.com/yest9axa
https://tinyurl.com/4ntws2r6

BruceK said:
Let us all fervently hope ASD`s recreational cruising pleasure is in no way affected.
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Anyone with a private dock on the Columbia River, should be just fine.
It’s 550 miles through BC, from Washington to Alaska.
The Columbia River is 1,250 miles; the Snake, 1,000 miles.
They should be able to stay put in the US for the next decade and not suffer the hardship of the just imposed, BC fuel rationing, caused by Canada’s largest natural disaster.
 
This is a terrible tragedy and we probably don't even yet know the extent of the loss of human and animal life.

Here is a harrowing report from the Guardian. It describes a witnessed landslide.

I feel for our neighbors to the (slightly) North of us. When I know what we can do to help I hope to be able to assist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/canada-floods-mudslides-survivors
 
Between fires every summer, more intense and frequent hurricanes, and epic flooding - though we also have extreme droughts - it’s hard to mentally process. We definately need to be compassionate and supportive.
 
As Americans know didley squat about Canada, lets review some facts. First, the trade between Canada and the States is the highest of any countries in the world. I am just going to quote an article:

_________________________________________________________
"The United States and Canada enjoy the world’s largest and most comprehensive trading relationship that supports millions of jobs in each country and constitutes a $1.6 trillion bilateral trade and investment relationship. Canada ranks as the top U.S. export market, accounting for 17.9% of all U.S. goods exports in 2020. Canada and the United States trade $1.7 billion in goods and services daily. Two-way trade in goods and services totaled more than $614.9 billion in 2020, and 2020 bilateral investment stock totaled $991.9 billion.

U.S. exports to Canada were nearly $310 billion in 2020. 32 U.S. states rank Canada as their number one export market. In 2020, U.S. exports to Canada exceeded total U.S. exports to China, Japan, and Taiwan combined. Whether your company is a first-time or seasoned exporter, Canada should be a key component of your company’s export growth strategy.

In 2020, U.S. exports of goods to Canada totaled $256.1 billion. The top export categories (2-digit HS) in 2020 to Canada were: machinery ($39billion), vehicles ($38 billion), electrical machinery ($22 billion), mineral fuels ($16 billion), and plastics ($13 billion).

U.S. exports of services to Canada were valued at $53.6 billion in 2020. Leading services exports from the U.S. to Canada were in the professional and management services and intellectual property sectors.

U.S. total exports of agricultural products to Canada totaled $22 billion in 2020, our second largest agricultural export market. Leading domestic export categories include prepared foods; baked goods; cereals and pasta; fresh and processed vegetables; fresh and processed fruit; meat and meat products; snack foods; non-alcoholic beverages; chocolate and cocoa products; condiments and sauces; coffee; wine; beer; and pet food.

In most industry sectors, Canada is a highly receptive, open, and transparent market for U.S. products and services, with Canadians spending more than 60% of their disposable income on U.S. goods and services. The nations share a similar lifestyle, engendering a certain level of cultural familiarity; Americans and Canadians “speak” the same language, literally and figuratively. Canada’s two official languages are English and French; however, English is almost universally spoken."
__________________________________________________________

The value of daily imports and exports through our Vancouver ports is 550 million A DAY. American products sent to Asia not only go through American west coast ports but also through Vancouver and a small percentage through Prince Rupert.

The population of Canada is almost identical to the population of California so you don't have to be an economics prof to figure out that 550 million daily is not goods and exports for Canada. The great majority of that 550 million is American goods and exports/imports daily.

I just read somewhere, maybe here in the forum, but ships are being staged in areas out into the Pacific waiting to get into California ports. Now if this is the case now, where do you think all those Vancouver bound ships are going to go?
 
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Hey, we also got Captain James Tiberius Kirk and a few other well-known cultural icons from north of the border!!
 
"Why do more Canadians shop at Dominion's than at any other store?" This was a commercial back in the late 60's and William Shatner was in all these tv ads in broadcasts around Ontario.
 
rgano said:
Hey, we also got Captain James Tiberius Kirk and a few other well-known cultural icons from north of the border!!
Click to expand...

I think that James T. Kirk was from Iowa. The actor that played J.T. Kirk was from Canada…
 
bowball said:
Between fires every summer, more intense and frequent hurricanes, and epic flooding - though we also have extreme droughts - it’s hard to mentally process. We definitely need to be compassionate and supportive.
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It`s the sequence of drought, fires,and flood here, which attunes me to the plight of others experiencing the same. Tough life farming. Right now there are farms and crops going as overflowing dams are forced to spill water, in what was the best year since our longest drought ever. But,nothing like BC`s current plight.
 
Don't fret, there are disasters all over the world that inflict horror on citizens.

BC is only the disaster of the week.
 
Hey Tom (Firehoser)
Just a big Thank you for taking the lead here. Great job. You too Rick. We need this kind of attention to the actual problems caused by natural disasters such this.

As with many of our US members, I am presently in the US and need to go searching for any news regarding home. So far, TF has been my best source, my kids second, CBC.ca third, Google fourth, US media a distant..........don't even bother. So it is no surprise that most folks living in the US don't know. Don't be too hard on them.
 
I am not angry with Americans, I lived and went to high school in Madison Wisconsin, I attended Robert M. La Follette High. And this included taking American history. I also attended a college, university and institute in Chicago for seven years.

While in the history class in my high school, the teacher gave me permission to administer a 10 question test about Canada. Trust me, I lobbed easy questions at the students. The equivalent questions in American terms would be - name 5 states, who is the president, etc., easy questions. The highest score was 3/10. You'd be surprised at how many Americans think Toronto and Montreal are provinces.

In a test undertaken in the southern states, participants were asked to locate Canada on a map, 60% couldn't. And in a Jay Leno bit, he asked university students in the States to locate the United States on a map, 40% couldn't. That cheered me up.
 
We, in the US, aren't as aware of natural disasters and major events elsewhere as perhaps we should be. Don't be too quick with the Americans know nothing about Canada. Keep in mind some of us live 2700 miles from Vancouver and while we've traveled, most haven't. Canadians travel more than Americans as they get more vacation and holiday. I live closer to Peru than to Vancouver. Most Americans know very little about other areas of the country. Alabamans know nothing about North Dakota on the whole. It's a problem in a big country and Canada is the same. How much do those of you in BC know about Nova Scotia or Newfoundland? Bet many of you know more about what is going on in Alaska and Washington.

On the other hand throughout the US and I suspect often in other countries we don't seem to have a feel for the disasters elsewhere in the world. Our news mentions them initially and then it's gone for something else. We don't ask for or watch in depth. We live less than 700 miles from Haiti and they have horrific problems but have fallen out of the news for the most part. When Mexico City, FL was hit so hard, it wasn't a major city and it fell quickly out of the news even in South Florida, although about 400 miles away. A few years ago we were in SC for the horrific flooding they got and fortunately the US government and the state were involved, because the American people on the whole were completely unaware.

My point is that it's a big world and so many tragedies hitting daily and we just don't know or respond to all. I remember posting here concern about a hurricane but it was targeting an area with few TF's and few who were familiar and I got no one's interest.

I don't know if we've been hardened or it's just more than we can keep up with or we don't care or we just have had to tune much of it out unless we personally know someone impacted. I know some of you in BC so feel pain and sadness. Would I feel the same if I didn't know anyone there? The issues would be just as bad. I feel bad for what you're going through and thank you for sharing it here. I can't keep up with everything and, if I could, I probably couldn't handle it all. We went to Rockport after Harvey and to SC after the flooding around the time of Joaquin but not from it and we helped Puerto Rico after Maria and the Bahamas after Dorian and I feel for all those around the world, I think of Haiti and the conditions and it's just too much to think of.

I also am going to give the benefit of the doubt to posts here that seemed callous, about boating when people were suffering terribly. Sometimes perhaps we should know but we don't. We cruised throughout Europe this summer and often felt so guilty as so many were dying from Covid. In fact, each of us here talk about boating every day when people around the world are suffering. I think we need to though. I know I personally do. I thought back to the rains that hit BC this afternoon. It was a storm I'd never seen, never heard of. I want you all safe and all to recover. Then for my own sanity I had to return to laughter with our guests at our home today. I wish I could save everyone and had better answers, but I just don't.

Please continue to share what is going on and please understand if everyone doesn't respond as you hope, it's not always that they don't care. Somethings in this world I understand mindfully, but emotionally I can't. I haven't been there and if you're not there, it's not the same.
 
koliver said:
Hey Tom (Firehoser)
Just a big Thank you for taking the lead here. Great job. You too Rick. We need this kind of attention to the actual problems caused by natural disasters such this.

As with many of our US members, I am presently in the US and need to go searching for any news regarding home. So far, TF has been my best source, my kids second, CBC.ca third, Google fourth, US media a distant..........don't even bother. So it is no surprise that most folks living in the US don't know. Don't be too hard on them.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that US citizens don't know.

I have been following it despite my concern I am still in the tail end of hurricane season that brings similar issues to my region. AND YES I feel a twinge of despair for BC like I do the other 100+ disasters around the world.

This has been a tough year or two between feelings between Canada and the US.

I have felt nothing bur disdane from Canada over Covid and now from some yahoo's calling the US a third world country on how our ports are handling the shipping crisis. I am not happy with my own country but I don't need my neighbors dwelling on our mistakes rather than our acomplishments either.

So while we may not carry enough info on our news to suit some people....maybe because there is a need to address our own faults day in and day out.
 
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To answer the OP's original question.

If you didn't notice the debris from the mind-blowing Bute Inlet slide in November of 2020 on your transit this year, you probably won't notice the flood debris from the 2021 Fraser flood next year.
 
Scott,
We are all entitled to our personal feelings and opinions, many of which have been formed by first hand experience, others by "hear say".
Personally, I have several great American friends, and I cherish them.
On the whole, I, as a Canadian, think of Americans as brothers and sisters (in general). It is normal for siblings to occasionally squabble, disagree, and sometimes argue. So, the fact that we occasionally have that occur, well I guess we can't see eye to eye on everything?? :)
On the whole, I am glad that America is our closest ally and friend and that we share one of the world's longest basically unguarded border. Personally, I hope the relationship between our 2 Countries strengthens as time goes on.

However, I am well aware that not all Americans nor all Canadians will feel this same way. But for most part, even those people value our relationships to at least some extent, if for no other reason than trade as pointed out earlier in this thread.

JMHO.
 
firehoser75 said:
Scott,
We are all entitled to our personal feelings and opinions, many of which have been formed by first hand experience, others by "hear say".
Personally, I have several great American friends, and I cherish them.
On the whole, I, as a Canadian, think of Americans as brothers and sisters (in general). It is normal for siblings to occasionally squabble, disagree, and sometimes argue. So, the fact that we occasionally have that occur, well I guess we can't see eye to eye on everything?? :)
On the whole, I am glad that America is our closest ally and friend and that we share one of the world's longest basically unguarded border. Personally, I hope the relationship between our 2 Countries strengthens as time goes on.

However, I am well aware that not all Americans nor all Canadians will feel this same way. But for most part, even those people value our relationships to at least some extent, if for no other reason than trade as pointed out earlier in this thread.

JMHO.
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I would agree if it was kept to the topic, unfortunately too many have made it personal.

To top it off your French Canadian brothers and other eastern Canadians who didn't like USA politics for the last four years did not make themselves welcome around my parts. So more of your posters sure ain't helping. It is a shame as my last visit to Prince Rupert was a great and memorable trip...though many years ago.
 
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I am not sniping at Americans, I am stating fact. There are Americans that know about Canada, but most along the border. Our entertainment is American, we get American news. On cable TV I get the Chicago Channel, New York City channel and the Rochester NY channel (?). Of course after living in Chicago, I enjoy getting the Chicago channel. Its part of growing up in Canada to finally figure out Americans don't know much about us.

I can remember when my son at age 12 (he's now 34) came downstairs and said: "Dad, I just figured out Americans don't really know anything about Canada." I said: "Welcome to adulthood." So if you live in Washington state or Idaho, or North Dakota, or Montana, or Minnesota, or Michigan, or the rest of the eastern border states, some will be aware. If you are visiting Canada and have friends here, ask them if they think Americans are really unaware of Canada, I already know the answer.

The reason I posted all the economic information a few posts ago, was to let Americans here know this isn't a BC problem only, its an American problem as well. It just happened in BC.

I am a model railroader and railfan as well as a boater, and I am following Facebook railroad related posts about this problem. I can tell you BNSF is adding more trains. I know authorities in the States are aware more trucks will be on highways along the norther border driving through the states to get to and from BC. Think Covid with this information.

I have also been in the military, and in my opinion Canada should be asking for military help from the States. Engineers and construction crews from the Army for example. When you throw in the families as well as serving members at Fort Lewis in Washington state, you have a total population of our combined Canadian Forces. Just saw a news item that said: "The Cavalry are coming." This refers to our Armed Forces responding to the crisis. We just don't have the military infra structure to provide a strong response to BC sadly.
 
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One of the overlooked points about the current natural disaster in Canada is the lack of coverage by the American news organizations. Hard to blame Americans for not being aware of it, if something doesn't trigger them to look for information.

While the OP has taken heat for his original post, he (an American) was the one who brought it to the forum's attention. Maybe some of those so critical of the OP, should have done more before this thread, to make us more aware of what had happened.

Ted
 
A nicely done explanation of the flooding issue at the Sumas Prairie. The flooded cloverleaves are Highway 1, The TransCanada Highway.

 
I often watch Canadian news when on my boat as the channels actually come in. A lot of people I work with in Washington are not even aware of what the storm on Monday, really looked like even in Washington. I was 90 miles south of Anacortes on Monday, we had the biggest product launch I’ve been part of and was pretty heads down until I checked my email and got a note that conditions in Anacortes were terrible. When I checked the boat cam, I actually started shaking. There were easily three foot waves inside the breakwater and at high tide the massive waves in the channel were washing right over the breakwater. My boat was moving violently, but still in the slip. I told my boss I needed to try and save my boat and jumped in the car and left. The conditions in the Seattle area were not that bad, but up North it was crazy. The ferry I’m next to was no longer on site, but hiding behind a protected point. The waves in the channel, I’ve never seen anything even close to it. I had freshly tied the boat up on Sunday, yet there was a ton of stretch/slack in the lines. Thank god I always tie on all four corners plus springs in both directions on both sides. Still, I added quite a few lines when I got there. Our breakwater had taken damage and was threatening to get worse, but in the storm there was nothing to do but wait and see if it would survive (it did, I just took part today in some emergency repairs about an hour ago).

I left the boat that night and drove home not knowing whether it would still be there in the morning, but had done all we could. Had the wind not veered that evening just enough that we stopped taking a direct hit, I think things may have turned out differently. Getting home I had to deal with closed roads as we were expecting the rivers to crest at any moment and truck after truck after truck hauled gravel and sand trying to reinforce the levy’s.

Anyway, the weather phenomenon was intense, but very localized. This is not at all typical. We were also in the path in Anacortes, but arguably we did not even take the full impact. I think a lot of folks in Seattle can’t relate that the conditions were so very different in such a short distance. They just have no idea. Many people are flooded and suffering landslides in North Washington as well, frankly by the narrowest margins we got lucky with flooding. A few hours difference and we were looking at the worst flood levels recorded.

BC is nearly the same distance North for me as my home is South when I’m on the boat. It seems so much more immediate to me, but that’s because I watch your news and have co-workers who are in BC and could not get anywhere. I felt the storm, and it scared me to my core, so I knew. I think a lot of folks are simply detached. Most don’t even recognize the impacts in
Washington.

To my many Canadian friends, hang in there. We are thinking about you.
 
psneeld said:
I would agree if it was kept to the topic, unfortunately too many have made it personal.
Click to expand...

The one sentence which opened this topic, made it personal.

As did yours:
psneeld said:
To top it off your French Canadian brothers and other eastern Canadians who didn't like USA politics for the last four years did not make themselves welcome around my parts.
Click to expand...
 
150mm is 5.9 inch. ;)
That is bad enough, no need to exaggerate.

Sumas area is gaining ground lowering water levels and rebuilding a dyck. However they are fighting against time before another event is expected next week.
 
The Sumas flooding appears not to be an unusual event. There are several current articles describing the timeline of past floods, dikes and pumping stations from about 1920 to today. The timeline happenings are numerous with farmers draining the shallow lake 90 years ago to the current but not unexpected flood event of today.

Following decades of studies, in 2019 a US /Canada joint task force was commissioned to deal with major expected Sumas and Nooksack River area flood events associated with rains even bigger than the current one. The task force has been relatively inactive during the past two years but obviously needs to get moving. One US Corps observation is the required fixes parallel Mississippi drainage studies including New Orleans.

BTW, engineering designs appear to involve bigger rain events than current with tens of billions $ the likely cost range. I betcha not any funds have yet been tabled. The time is now for our elected officials to engage.
 
Completely agree Tom. These are political and engineering failures as much as they are weather disasters.

To see politicians blather that this flooding was unanticipated, is disingenuous at best.

The Netherlands shows how engineering and political will can attenuate nature's temper much (most?) of the time.

North America has some skewed political priorities, much which involve getting elected, maintaining power, and creating their own minor problems, which they then "solve".
 
The Sumas prairie was created from a shallow lake. The Dyck that broke was not expected to break. The highway running through it was not expected to wash out. The Nooksack river was not expected to have surplus water flowing towards Sumas.
Back to the drawing board on this repeatable event. Good enough was not.

I stand to be corrected but the devastation in the Sumas area was the worst of all in terms of displaced/affected residents and livestock. The other breaks in roadway/bridges is an inconvenience. Sumas has overturned the lives of those that live and work there. A lot of the fertile land is washing out to the Salish sea.

As for the other slides and washouts, was there an early warning or mitigation events taking place, similar to the same roadways in winter conducting controlled avalanches. I think not.

RIP for those that were caught and killed by mother nature.

ETA, forgot about Merritt & Princeton, other well known flood plane where homes were built gambling on the one in a hundred year flood.
 
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There are so many issues with this flood event that a post or a thread cannot begin to adequately cover any of it. There are the loss of lives that has occurred, personal loss of property and live stock. Severing of major highways that will take months, in some cases years and billions of $ to fix. But the effect on the supply chain issues will almost certainly affect the US as well.

The major rail lines have been cut. Hundreds of thousands of containers travel along those lines. Ports Metro Vancouver is second only to the Port of Los Angles in terms of freight.

https://www.csatransportation.com/blog/largest-ports-in-the-us-canada

This is a VERY big deal. The effect on an already stretched supply chain cannot be overstated.

Jim
 
Speaking of insensitive.....

This is not just a BC problem. I operate a couple of food and agriculture businesses in Whatcom County WA just south of the Sumas Plain.

Jim is correct. This is a very big deal and it will not be rectified for a very long time.

I normally come here for boating stuff, but if we are doing the news and being politically correct, then here is the news from the other side of the border. It is catastrophic by any measure.


Flooding in Whatcom and Skagit has been devastating, with 1200 homes damaged in Sumas, 75% of businesses and homes damaged in Everson, dairies completely flooded, livestock losses, stranded cattle, workers unable to reach farms, and the EPL feed plant left inoperable.

The EPL feed plant serves dairy farm operations from the Canadian border down past Lewis County. Losing the plant operation affects dairies across all of Western Washington.

Supply chains are further troubled by 15 breaks in the BNSF rail line. Conditions are worse in Canada, so we have no resources available from there.


More than 100,000 milking cows, additional dry cows, and additional young stock are at risk of running short of feed due to the storm in Whatcom and Skagit.
 
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