Best Trawler Type (or brand) for Off Shore

[rslifkin]

Unless the waves are extremely close together, there's no way you're going to just slam into the next wave. And you do need to trim the bow up a bit on a following sea to keep from digging it in or smashing the back side of a wave before you pitch up and start climbing it. At planing speed, until you reach the point where you can't climb over the waves, it's pretty much just set the engines to max continuous and steer (which doesn't take a lot). It's when you have to slow down that it takes more work.

Big ocean swells are an easy case unless they're moving too fast to keep up with them. When things get tough is when you have large, steep wind waves. Then you reach a point where running over the top is dangerous or you climb too slowly to be worth it. But even in very steep, short period crap on the great lakes, 4 feet is still within the realm of running over the tops with just a light touch on the wheel and not pushing the limit (and a bigger boat will have a higher limit anyway). On my boat, 4 feet means about 13 kts at the top of the climb, a little steering over the top, then about a 19 kt surf down to the trough.

Keep in mind, the planing hulls with more full bows that go down wind well without digging in can be unpleasant upwind at low speeds, as they can pitch very rapidly and pretty much go up and over rather than through a wave under almost all situations.

If you're in a fully developed 15 foot sea (not swell) and not crossing an ocean, then plain and simple, you screwed up somewhere.

Have you actually run a planing hull in rough weather?

 

[Hippocampus]

Although have done multiple passages in sail and have experienced significant weather my experience in power is much more limited in those,conditions. Have helmed a 38’ and a 52’ sport fish when it was sporty. This was brief as we weren’t doing passage but rather a trip out to the canyons and back. Nothing like enduring 3 days of gale to storm force conditions. Those times were 2 to 3 m and mid thirties with gusts to low forties. Not storm conditions. Still, just like in sail steering down wind required great attention and was rapidly fatiguing. That’s why I ended up steering as the owner/captain wanted brief shifts. Issue was to neither bury the bow nor surf to quickly nor be overtaken by the following wave. We followed old time Allard Cole advice making our zigs and zags in concert with the wave train. Will say I felt much more safe in sail going down wind in those conditions. Always had the passive option of throwing over warps or better yet a Jordan series drogue and just going below buttoned up if we fatigued. Have had only one occasion of real heavy weather in a FD trawler. It was a fish boat not a recreational vessel. Heavy FD steel. That was uneventful even when the waves where overtaking. Still think going downwind in any vessel unless passive techniques are employed has its own set of difficulties.

I’m struck that although sportfish do see serious weather and endure beyond concerns about range that isn’t the hull form commonly used if heavy weather is an expected part of the program. Rather ultra light long narrow vessels with highly favorable AVS or full displacement bruisers of the Beebe, Buelher or Leishman variety.

Very interested in the experience and thoughts of those more experienced in power as I’m a newbie.

 

[Capt Bly]

An earlier commenter said something along the lines of im going to get some popcorn for this one... So, while the incredible exploits of such venerable people as Captain William Bligh (Bly is a small town in eastern Oregon) may be relevant in that no one wants to be crossing 3600 miles of open ocean in a life boat AKA forced to use the wrong tool for the job, what I am getting out of this discussion is that maybe there is not a "leatherman equivalent trawler, as in im asking too much from the type. While a full displacement or semi D trawler style boat may work fine for most of what I am intending it for, the style might be hair raising or worse under conditions we should not be out in (big NW fetch days). SW, liquid smoke days dont count here for my purposes, I am not looking at venturing out on the Pacific during the winter and this area is pretty much a stable NW wind pattern all summer. I am getting the vibe that a trawler is fine for transit of the coast while heading somewhere, maybe throw in some angling during appropriate conditions ... but multi-day trips out in tuna zone jogging at night with watches might be asking too much. Although we do have a crazy little thing called the National Weather Service .. they can be wrong, but info is power. Like I said way back, the bars are what tend to take the fun out of Christmas here. So .... maybe a bigger whaler or planing cabin boat with twins for tuna mania or take a charter and relegate le trawler to transit from marina to marina on the way to the great land or tequila-ville. Ironically I looked at a clean, nice local trawler the other day with a fly bridge that had a major aftermarket fiberglass job, as in totally dried in and comfortable....and likely a massive sail when you dont want one.

 

[Fish53]

Unless the waves are extremely close together, there's no way you're going to just slam into the next wave. And you do need to trim the bow up a bit on a following sea to keep from digging it in or smashing the back side of a wave before you pitch up and start climbing it. At planing speed, until you reach the point where you can't climb over the waves, it's pretty much just set the engines to max continuous and steer (which doesn't take a lot). It's when you have to slow down that it takes more work.

Big ocean swells are an easy case unless they're moving too fast to keep up with them. When things get tough is when you have large, steep wind waves. Then you reach a point where running over the top is dangerous or you climb too slowly to be worth it. But even in very steep, short period crap on the great lakes, 4 feet is still within the realm of running over the tops with just a light touch on the wheel and not pushing the limit (and a bigger boat will have a higher limit anyway). On my boat, 4 feet means about 13 kts at the top of the climb, a little steering over the top, then about a 19 kt surf down to the trough.

Keep in mind, the planing hulls with more full bows that go down wind well without digging in can be unpleasant upwind at low speeds, as they can pitch very rapidly and pretty much go up and over rather than through a wave under almost all situations.

If you're in a fully developed 15 foot sea (not swell) and not crossing an ocean, then plain and simple, you screwed up somewhere.

Have you actually run a planing hull in rough weather?

Yes I have, as well as having taken rescue boat training where the limitations of even those planing hulls designed for rough weather are taught. I thought I made it clear the conditions of operation involved in my observations. As I doubt you have actual experience in that type of conditions we are comparing apples and oranges and thus engaged in pointless conversation.

 

[FF]

AS staying on station and fishing for days seems to be the desire , a good sized sport fish might work.

Short steep waves are only at the beginning of a serious blow so a parachute storm anchor deployed from the bow would be an easy way to hold position till the waves rounded down to large swells.

Sure the motion would suck for a half day but flopper stoppers deployed from the rail (no poles) should tame the motion enough to sleep while waiting.

 

[rslifkin]

I’m struck that although sportfish do see serious weather and endure beyond concerns about range that isn’t the hull form commonly used if heavy weather is an expected part of the program. Rather ultra light long narrow vessels with highly favorable AVS or full displacement bruisers of the Beebe, Buelher or Leishman variety.

I agree. But for offshore fishing, a good sport fish will handle more than you realistically want to be out there in. And if you're out fishing, you're probably not all that far from somewhere to go (maybe 6 - 8 hours at planing speed at most), so you watch the weather. If something nasty is coming, you point the bow for safe harbor and push the throttles forward, then head back out in a day or 2 when the weather passes.


It's a bit different use case than commercial fishing, or ocean crossing where you're more likely to encounter weather you either have to stay out in or can't get away from.

 

[OldDan1943]

Recreational boat is supposed to be fun. That does not include days of throwing up into a bucket.
Weather STARTS to turn sour, head for safety.

I am not a fisherman of any kind. I own one very small fishing pole for emergencies. Yea yea, I know, I am missing out on fresh fish. Dont get between me and lobsters!!!

 

[ddw36]

The Kadey Krogens are worth a look. Here's a 1980 KK42 for $150K. Cored hull, but check it out carefully. KK also makes a 44' that succeeds the 42.


https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-fo...50&price=100000-150000&makeModel=kadey krogen

 

[toocoys]

Hey all, I have been searching for a boat for about 3 months for a trip retracing my younger foot steps up the inland passageway as well as for fishing off the Oregon Coast.

If I were in your position, I would go at it a different way. Instead of asking for opinions of "good" or "best" trawlers, I'd figure out what my budget is. Then, once you know you aren't going to spend more than X amount of dollars, make a list of the "must haves" that you need. I.e. galley down, walk around decks, generator, etc. etc. Then take your list, and your budget and start searching for boats that have the items on the list, and are within your budget. Once you have a working list of boats that are possibilities, you can better compare this boat to that boat, and see which one comes out on top.

Otherwise, you'll spend many hours reading useless opinions based in personal preferences and spinning your wheels getting bogged down with frustration.

 

[Fish53]

Although have done multiple passages in sail and have experienced significant weather my experience in power is much more limited in those,conditions. Have helmed a 38’ and a 52’ sport fish when it was sporty. This was brief as we weren’t doing passage but rather a trip out to the canyons and back. Nothing like enduring 3 days of gale to storm force conditions. Those times were 2 to 3 m and mid thirties with gusts to low forties. Not storm conditions. Still, just like in sail steering down wind required great attention and was rapidly fatiguing. That’s why I ended up steering as the owner/captain wanted brief shifts. Issue was to neither bury the bow nor surf to quickly nor be overtaken by the following wave. We followed old time Allard Cole advice making our zigs and zags in concert with the wave train. Will say I felt much more safe in sail going down wind in those conditions. Always had the passive option of throwing over warps or better yet a Jordan series drogue and just going below buttoned up if we fatigued. Have had only one occasion of real heavy weather in a FD trawler. It was a fish boat not a recreational vessel. Heavy FD steel. That was uneventful even when the waves where overtaking. Still think going downwind in any vessel unless passive techniques are employed has its own set of difficulties.

I’m struck that although sportfish do see serious weather and endure beyond concerns about range that isn’t the hull form commonly used if heavy weather is an expected part of the program. Rather ultra light long narrow vessels with highly favorable AVS or full displacement bruisers of the Beebe, Buelher or Leishman variety.

Very interested in the experience and thoughts of those more experienced in power as I’m a newbie.

It's generally accepted that full displacement hulls are more seaworthy than semi-displacement or planing. The issue of where is the limit seems more in question. In my experience which admittedly has been mostly professional and aboard larger vessels than seen on this site indicates a preference for full displacement over the other two simply because the limits are higher. Higher for a properly designed hull as any of the three could easily be poorly designed and be a sad representation of it's type. Of all three types, properly designed, equipped and manned a 36 foot full displacement boat could be expected to survive conditions other types may not.

 

[socalrider]

If I were in your position, I would go at it a different way. Instead of asking for opinions of "good" or "best" trawlers, I'd figure out what my budget is. Then, once you know you aren't going to spend more than X amount of dollars, make a list of the "must haves" that you need. I.e. galley down, walk around decks, generator, etc. etc. Then take your list, and your budget and start searching for boats that have the items on the list, and are within your budget. Once you have a working list of boats that are possibilities, you can better compare this boat to that boat, and see which one comes out on top.

Otherwise, you'll spend many hours reading useless opinions based in personal preferences and spinning your wheels getting bogged down with frustration.

Fully agree with this, particularly in today's market!

I spent a long time looking at different categories of boats and decided what I really needed was a >45ft cat. I still feel like that would be perfect for us, but at a cost of 4-6x vs. our trawler. If I'd set a realistic budget to begin with I wouldn't have bothered.

The speed of the sport fishers is really appealing, but they punish you in fuel costs if you use it. I also understand that maintenance can be extremely expensive on those big highly stressed engines, which is why you see what look like "deals" out there.

 

[SeaStarDF50]

In the 1960s, DeFevers were specifically designed as "Offshore Cruisers", based on commercial tuna boats, to take recreational boaters from Alaska to Acapulco and beyond. They've cruised around the world, and most of the early wooden ones are still in use, with a multitude of newer generations. In the 1970-80s, my in-laws lived aboard a 38ft DeFever, cruising from Alaska to WashDC over 15 years. They're comfortable, well-designed and worth investigating. Good luck!

 

[Capt Bly]

If I were in your position, I would go at it a different way. Instead of asking for opinions of "good" or "best" trawlers, I'd figure out what my budget is. Then, once you know you aren't going to spend more than X amount of dollars, make a list of the "must haves" that you need. I.e. galley down, walk around decks, generator, etc. etc. Then take your list, and your budget and start searching for boats that have the items on the list, and are within your budget. Once you have a working list of boats that are possibilities, you can better compare this boat to that boat, and see which one comes out on top.

Otherwise, you'll spend many hours reading useless opinions based in personal preferences and spinning your wheels getting bogged down with frustration.

Wise council, I did that a couple months ago and am down to a manageable list of boats. I was hoping to get some info on whether any particular brand of trawler was more stable in off shore conditions than another. The plan was to compare my short list of boat brands/models against what others thought were stable make/models without touching off a true firestorm by mentioning what makes/models I have on "the list". In addition to the go/no go list of components, I also looked at pricing for variations. I have looked at around 8 different makes/models, single screw, twins, thrusters, no thrusters, 1 head 2, all electric vs LPG. The only non negotiable item is I have to have a diesel engine or two, 38-44 feet or so, space for two for a couple months, room for a scuba guest or two for week or so etc. Will spend self sufficient time in BC, SE AK, maybe Mexico and I was hoping to use it off the Oregon Coast as well for fishing. That is what touched off most of the discussion. In the early days of the search, I went as far as taking "project boat" to a new level and looked at converting a former com fish boat but figured that was too large of a "black hole in the ocean" to shovel money into for me. This has been a good discussion so far and my frustration level is low. The highest level of frustration experienced to date is directed at boat brokers who expect you to find most of the boats for them to show you, dont reveal major show stopper damage (then say, oh yeah, that problem....) or say "doors open" and dont even show up. Reminds me of a real estate agent years ago in Maui who was literally laying down on the couch watching sitcoms the whole time we walked around a condo he was showing... and said "my card is on the table" as we left. We didnt take one....

 

[MVDarlin]

I have owned a 1982 twin diesel OA 43 tri cabin for over 20 yrs. I've cruised the west coast a couple of times, SE Alaska, Vancouver Island and I have kept the boat in the Sea of Cortez for 10 years. A bow thruster and stabilizers would have been nice but I got along quite well except in beam seas. No fun running the ditch. Best advice: stay at the dock in marginal weather.

 

[Nomad Willy]

The "best" trawler is always a matter of opinion. There are always trade offs.

If you want a comfortable ride in less than perfect conditions offshore, then you need to think about stabilization. Does a stabilized boat fit into your budget?

My opinion would be to find a Willard 40 with paravanes.

I’d rather have a 36 Willard w two steadying sail rigs.

 

[Kit]

Seems to be quite a few ex tuna trollers/salmon trollers on the market for very reasonable prices, just as long as you ballast them down, should fit most of your criteria!
Kit

 

[Riff Raff]

Just did that coast

Good luck with whatever you decide. My two cents. Just ran north up pacific coast from Southern California to BC with new to me full displacement trawler. In my list was stabilized but settled on boat without. Now at end of trip and realize stabilization is truly just a luxury. We didn’t miss it (much) and the boats Hull shape allowed for smooth rolls, not choppy, so motion was quite comfortable. Boat didn’t pound into steep chop (10’ with short periods). Off wind bit of slewing but auto did job. Had parachute if in large following sea. We went for 2 and 3 day stints without getting beat up. Winds 10-20 knots. I would repeat in Full displacement Hull. Fuel consumption was very reasonable and sustainable. With a reasonable weather eye this type of boat is the answer for me. Again, good luck.
Seahorse 52 was my choice.

 

[OldDan1943]

RiffRaff, You bought the Seahorse 52?
That sure is a beautiful boat. Lucky you!!!!

 

[Fish53]

I’d rather have a 36 Willard w two steadying sail rigs.

I think that would be a very nice boat. I keep seeing reference to paravanes on here but not many actually have them. I worked on a number of boats that had them and every single one ended up removing them. You get in serious weather and stick a boom below water and you'll see why. I finally got my riding sail experiment going and it works great on the mooring or anchored, not quite so well laying as it only holds her between 30 and 45 degrees off the wind. The surprise is how well it worked damping the roll, I wasn't expect much effect at all.

 

[OldDan1943]

I did a search on Willard36 pilot house.
ZOWNS!!!! Picture looked fantastic. Reasonable price.

 

[Riff Raff]

Many boats

Yes I bought the seahorse that was for Sale in Southern California. I love the Willards too. Should comment on earlier post that my last boat was a Tollycraft and while a decent boat not really what I would want for coastal ocean passages. Tended to pound into waves and not ride particularly well in rough weather. Not friendly when arriving at the dock; always a jump down which as we get older is more of a challenge. Last comment. Have sailed a boat across an ocean with paravanes (partly in a storm) and found they worked quite well on that boat- didn’t stop the roll but dampened it a fair bit.

 

[Adopo]

I found what you are looking for...

 

[Hippocampus]

https://www.arksen.com/wp-content/themes/arksen_v2/img/arksen_text_white.png

This will do as well.

 

[Hippocampus]

https://www.arksen.com/explorer-vessels/#Arksen 65

Any one of these will do as well and less generator runtime.

 

[Codger2]

I had a very similar set of "wants" in 1995 and after making several mistakes I finally settled on a 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan. I ran it from Santa Barbara to Ensenada, Mexico and fished everywhere in between. I loved that boat but got a severe case of 2 foot itis & sold it to buy a much larger 10 knot trawler. Another mistake! Finally, my wife & I were talking about "the best boat we ever had" & up popped the OA 42! We bought another one (Newer) outfitted it with all our "wants" and it replaced the first OA as the best boat we ever had. After owning 10 boats over 30 feet with the largest being a 54 sport fisher, I just can't say enough good things about the 42 OA. Absolutely a great boat!

 

[KnotYet]

Yes I bought the seahorse that was for Sale in Southern California. I love the Willards too. Should comment on earlier post that my last boat was a Tollycraft and while a decent boat not really what I would want for coastal ocean passages. Tended to pound into waves and not ride particularly well in rough weather. Not friendly when arriving at the dock; always a jump down which as we get older is more of a challenge. Last comment. Have sailed a boat across an ocean with paravanes (partly in a storm) and found they worked quite well on that boat- didn’t stop the roll but dampened it a fair bit.

Good job, Riff Raff. I had been aboard Alchemy and was seriously considering her.
A solid vessel for a good price, too.

 

[backinblue]

Good job, Riff Raff. I had been aboard Alchemy and was seriously considering her.
A solid vessel for a good price, too.

Great looking vessel, can I ask what the asking or selling price was?

 

[Adopo]

I’ve always like this boat, the 49 Defever. Just hit the market.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/defever-cockpit-motor-yacht-3852811/

 

[slowgoesit]

I’ve always like this boat, the 49 Defever. Just hit the market.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/defever-cockpit-motor-yacht-3852811/

Nice boat . . . . Engine # 1 has 4500 hours. Engine # 2 has 600 . . . . I'm sure there's a story there!

 

[backinblue]

Pretty simple story...

"new stb engine 600 hours ago"