Boat Ownership Share

[tagillette]

In the aviation world, there is such thing as an airplane ownership share. This would be a group of people that own the aircraft, split time on piloting, but also splits costs on maintenance andother expenses . Does such a thing exist in the boating and trawler world? I know that there are commercial clubs, but I haven’t seen private ownership groups two three maybe four owners single boat. I’m thinking that one of the largest problems is protecting the group from individual liability, but it seems to have been worked out in the aviation world. Any thoughts?

 

[STB]

It strikes me as problematic. But thats just me.

One of my boat neighbors started his boat ownership with a 1/4 share with 4 buddies. He slowly bought all of them out as their interests changed. I guess he's had some ownership for about 20 years and full ownership for many years. The whole situation worked out well for him and his partners.

One difference between boats and planes is that there are strict inspection requirements, credentialing requirements for service.providers, record keeping requirements, etc. They ensure a baseline care and investment in aircraft -- and they don't, at all, exist for recreational vessels

 

[Comodave]

One problem will be that all of the partners will not have the same idea of what constitutes good maintenance and therefore some will be unwilling to spend what others feel is needed for the maintenance. No matter how good friends it will eventually go south, IMO.

 

[BruceK]

In Australia there are private arrangements where 3 or so parties share a boat, many of these people may be friends/acquaintances. Maintenance is likely to be shared informally. AndyG on TF has such an arrangement, of long standing.

There are also commercially organized share arrangements for as many as 8 or 10 parties. There is an ingoing price with the Manager likely getting a commission and the membership may have a finite period. There is a monthly management/maintenance contribution for the boat, for cleaning after use, etc. There are several Integrity 380s at my marina under such management, called "bumper boats" for some reason perhaps associated with docking by owners only using them occasionally.

 

[Slo-Mocean]

Back in the day like 45 years ago there were a group of guys that would have multiple partnerships in 50-60 foot racing sailboats at our yacht club, seem to workout.

I've been debating selling a 1/2 share in my boat, but i think it would have to be with someone I've known .

 

[tiltrider1]

There are plenty of private boat partnerships out there. The key differences, aviation maintenance is usually based off hours of use and very predictable, while boating maintenance is very un predictable.

I had a friend who was involved in a 3 way partnership. The joke went like this. John Always used the boat, Fred always fixed the boat and Sam always had to pay for the boat.

The most successful partnerships seem to be ones where the partners boated similarly. For instance, John takes the boat from Seattle to Alaska, Fred uses the boat in
Alaska and Same takes the boat from Alaska back to Seattle. The Next year they rotate missions.

 

[darkside]

I wouldn't share a boat as I use ours more or less every week, but it crtainly makes sense for an owner who wants only a few weeks a year.
Down here in NZ there is a professionally managed boat share operatoon called Ownaship. They manage 30 boats at present. During the Covid boating boom I heard their main growth constraint was the wait time for new builds.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Boat share arrangements exist. I've seen them listed on Yachtworld at times. I personally know of three cases where it worked well. As with any property owner partnership there will be benefits and problems. The problems will mostly be people problems. Scheduling would be one. Everyone is going to want the boat during the best cruising months. I like Tiltrider's suggestion for a PNW boat.

The most successful partnerships seem to be ones where the partners boated similarly. For instance, John takes the boat from Seattle to Alaska, Fred uses the boat in
Alaska and Same takes the boat from Alaska back to Seattle. The Next year they rotate missions.

OP asks about liability. I think the first step is the boat is in a LLC. A LLC does not provide 100% protection, it's just the 1st step. After that I'd want some sort of insuance to protect me.

 

[Ken E.]

One problem will be that all of the partners will not have the same idea of what constitutes good maintenance and therefore some will be unwilling to spend what others feel is needed for the maintenance. No matter how good friends it will eventually go south, IMO.

This sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[mvweebles]

Libertarian in me wants to solve with money. Greatest chance for a durable partnership would be structured with professional maintenance to avoid issues where one person feels he does the bulk of the work, or asymmetry of what good looks like. Partners should pre-fund maintenance with a healthy reserve for contingency expenses vs trying to collect when something breaks.

Rather than splitting fixed monthly costs evenly, a chunk of costs should be usage based. Example (made up numbers) would be $500/mo plus $20/engine hour plus $50/day.

Of course, this is more or less how a boat club is setup. Might make sense if you can find a club who rents boats you'd use

Peter

 

[tagillette]

There have been thoughtful responses, I started thread after conversation with friend who is in partnership on plane yes it’s an LLC they have a pretty well defined agreement Fortunately all parties behave well and in friends case did not know the other parties until buying an existing share It is interesting that you don’t see this much in the boat world. Guess boats are like ,wives they are hard to share

 

[mvweebles]

I'm not s pilot so can't say for sure, but planes cannot have DIY maintenance and repairs so that simplifies the arrangement. They also have short duration usage cycles compared to boats. Finally, private planes have no living accomodations so no issues with leaving the pisser dirty or leaving ripened cheese in the fridge or sheets dirty.

I think it entirely worksble. But similar to a plane partnership, ongoing expenses should be pre-funded and the repairs and maintenance outsourced,

Peter

 

[sjisailor]

One direction might be to buy a boat with multiple owners, and put it in charter so the charter company does all the routine maintenance, etc.

Personally I prefer no one else to be on or use our boat! but if I were to share, a professional charter company might make sense.

 

[Mainship Pilot]

The biggest concern for me would be, their problems instantly become my problems, which would directly affect our mutual relationship, Divorce, lost job, sour economy, ect.

 

[RedRascal]

Once in a while I do see a boat share/partnership come up on Craigslist in the Seattle area. Rare but not unheard of. I am informally in one with a couple friends, they own the boat and pay the expenses. I help mentor them with boating and can use the boat pretty much whenever I feel like it. I just throw some diesel in the tank once a year to cover my usage and check up on the boat now and then when they can't. I think our situation is unique and we all feel blessed to have it.

Partnerships happen but I think they are kinda of rare vs. being common.

 

[ljk]

I think a more workable arrangement would be where one person owns the boat and the "partners" commit to chipping in a set amount of $ for a set period of time.

I think this would work best if all parties knew each other. Thinking back about 30 years, this is the arrangement I had with 2 of my fishing buddies on a 34 foot Chris Craft we kept on Lake Michigan. It worked really well.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I had a friend who was involved in a 3 way partnership. The joke went like this. John Always used the boat, Fred always fixed the boat and Sam always had to pay for the boat

That's basically what I have seen. The best deal on buying a used boat is from a partnership. Two of the three have been losing money for a few years and just want out quickly at any cost (even a big loss).

My dad got a great deal on a boat named "Quartet" for the four partners. One partner went from forward to reverse at speed, tore the engine/tranny off the motor mounts, etc., and then wanted the partnership to share the cost. I bought a boat where one partner did some "routine maintenance" that included disconnecting the oil pressure alarm and cross threading the new filter. It threw a rod out through the oil pan when someone else took the boat out. Who pays?

The partnership contract would need to be as iron-clad and shameless as a Hollywood prenuptial agreement. And I still wouldn't do it.

 

[coopj]

I have been interested in starting a trawler partnership. Went and looked at some Kadey-Krogens in Stuart last weekend - really nice boats. This "partnership" would be for two remote owners. I could only use the boat 10 times or so per year. The other partner would be roughly the same amount of usage. Seems like a good way to do it for us as "remote owners."
I have been in several airplane partnerships in the past. Some were better than others. Never had any issues with maintenance. Have always excepted the fact that maintenance is part of the ownership cost and there is not going to be much opportunity to reduce that expense. My last airplane partner wanted out, so I bought him out for an agreed upon amount - we are still friends.
Some people have an easier time sharing large ticket items than others. I could certainly see where feathers get ruffled if one partner is getting more use than the other - this happened in a 3 way airplane partnership. It wasn't that bad, but was irritating.
I have found that the most important aspect of a partnership is a very clear path for one partner getting out if they want to. Either you buy them out or you sell the asset. Fortunately for me, I have not had the experience of one partner not paying his bills. I would not go into a partnership with someone who was going to have difficulty paying for needed repairs or ongoing expenses.
Just my experience so far

 

[firehoser75]

Personally, I see too many opportunities for problems/disagreements. It would be very difficult to get 2 let alone 3 or more "partners" to agree on additions, upgrades, even what is actually necessary maintenance, not to mention scheduling issues, usage issues, damage, etc.

However, it would probably stand a better chance of being "workable" (but higher costs due to management company) if there was a very indepth contract (with legal advice) and a management company overseeing all aspects of the boat (scheduling, repairs, maintenance, cleaning, disposal of a share, selling the boat, etc.)
Too many headaches for me.

 

[mgreen]

I have done some version of partners on 5 boats so far and would do it again. 2 formal "lease shares" through a company that put them together. 5 shares per boat. It was decent.Sundowner 30 tug, CHB 34 about 5 years total for those 2. 2 50/50 small boats on hand shakes that are probably not relevant. Then the best one was an Islander 36 sailboat that was lasted 16 years. Handshake over beers. Not much money involved but total cost was about 30 k for 16 year's. Cheapest boating I ever did.