Boat Prices: Has the world changed????

[Slowmo]

Ah, the name and size game. The boat was sold as the Nordic 37 for many years. Then American Tug introduced their AT39, and the Nordic 37 became the Nordic 39. Then magically grew to the Nordic 40 to outdo it by a foot.

3 feet of growth in just a few years! Must be really good vitamins!

Just stretch that swim platform and voila, magic 40'. I suspect part of the problem is what GB ran into years ago. It costs about the same to make a 37' as a 40' but the price is different. That's one of the reasons the GB 36 disappeared, followed later by the 42. Margin is greater on larger boats. Of course that's fine until the economy tanks, then companies that sell only large boats can be vulnerable since they have nothing to fall back on.

If we enter a recession, which seems more and more likely, I'd expect the boat market to soften considerably. The first thing people dump in hard times is their boats and vacation homes. I've seen this play out a couple of times.

 

[rslifkin]

Some of the difference is also sizing getting more accurate. I think there's an EU regulation around that which started the trend. So now instead of having a 37 that's actually 41 feet overall (because the bolt on swim platform and pulpit weren't counted), they just call it a 41 because that's what it measures tip to tip.

 

[Nick14]

Just stretch that swim platform and voila, magic 40'. I suspect part of the problem is what GB ran into years ago. It costs about the same to make a 37' as a 40' but the price is different. That's one of the reasons the GB 36 disappeared, followed later by the 42. Margin is greater on larger boats. Of course that's fine until the economy tanks, then companies that sell only large boats can be vulnerable since they have nothing to fall back on.

If we enter a recession, which seems more and more likely, I'd expect the boat market to soften considerably. The first thing people dump in hard times is their boats and vacation homes. I've seen this play out a couple of times.

Boat size magic is always so entertaining!

I'm particularly amused by this one. I imagine the company was thrilled at the prospect of changing a boat's 'length' from 30-something to 40-something. The change in name from 39 to 40 might have been worth $100,000 on the price, to now have a 40 footer

Someone should sell 12 ft long pulpits and presto! turn any 34 footer into a ginormous 46 foot near-mega yacht!

I've heard that comment from a number of boat builders, how it costs them virtually the same to build a 36 as a 43 ft boat etc., but of course the prices they can charge are not the same. I understand how that happens, the materials differences are negligible and the labor essentially the same.

As you said, the problem is what happens when people don't/can't buy as many bigger more expensive boats. I've lived long enough to see that cycle happen several times. It's the high-end/high price builders that become extinct the fastest when boom times end. Then making a lesser profit on a smaller/lower price boat might not seem so bad compared to making nothing on no sales of a larger/more expensive boat.

As @mvweebles wisely quoted, 'Little piggies get fed, big biggies get slaughtered.'

 

[psneeld]

I believe it was the "old days" when stretching hulls was common and the concept that bigger wasn't all that expensive to build.....

Today, even 1 foot longer models seem retooled (significant costs up front to builders) and more and more complex expensive systems are added (where the real profit margin grows...just look at accessories and options pages).

In my experience, the mid sized boats and priced boats that drop off the line first. As they say, the very rich are never really hurt by recessions.

 

[DDW]

There was a change in USCG registration regulations, a permanently attached swim platform had to be included in the registered length. So the Nordic 37 became 39, the American Tug 34 became the 365, etc.

One thing that baffles me though, is an elaborate molded swim platform, permanently attached to the transom, where an increase in hull fairbody to accomplish the same step would cost no more and be better in nearly every other way. Especially if you have to count it in length either way. My AT34 has such, every once in awhile I think about modifying it into a real 365. The factory did this on a couple but did it with a secondary molded piece cloned on, which would be less cost effective for sure.

 

[Nick14]

Some of the difference is also sizing getting more accurate.

Has measuring tape technology changed that much in recent years? I wasn't aware of the crisis in inaccurate measuring tapes and yardsticks :lol:

Maybe it's the new math I didn't learn when I went to school.

 

[FWT]

 

[KnotYet]

That 35' tape probably messed up a few projects before you or they got wise!

 

[Nick14]

:lol::lol::lol:

That's great! You've figured it out! Boatbuilders have been using the wrong tape measures all along! They've all suddenly discovered the mistake and started using the right one!

I imagine a lot of men would rather use the tape on the top to measure, er, other things, as well... :lol:

 

[KnotYet]

:lol::lol::lol:

That's great! You've figured it out! Boatbuilders have been using the wrong tape measures all along! They've all suddenly discovered the mistake and started using the right one!

I imagine a lot of men would rather use the tape on the bottom to measure, er, other things, as well... :lol:

The top tape measure is the 'optimistic' one...

 

[Art]

My 1973 31' Uniflite magically became a 32'er a few years later... Exact same deck and hull!

With the orig swim step and orig metal pulpit my current 34' [actual length] Tollycraft tri cabin could easily be termed a 36'... or maybe even stretched a bit to say 37'er! But that is BS and I won't stoop that low.

In boat ads I do see some sellers that are BSing about the actual length of their boat. IMO - that's a No No!

 

[Nick14]

The top tape measure is the 'optimistic' one...

I stand corrected (that’s what happens when I post a comment without seeing the pic in front of me).

 

[long-cours.62]

I discuss with some broker in Europe

This was one of the headlines in a BoatTest email update I received today:

2022 Used Boat Prices Fall 18%

And they said the price of boat became crazy they INCREASE a lot...! ?

 

[OldDan1943]

My N46 was really N465, I think, (Only brokers get excited about that .5ft).....Then I added a 3ft swiim platform and presto, I was in the bog boys club. LOL

 

[socalrider]

Surprising how challenging it can be to get the actual LOA, LOD, WLL for vessels. This was very important for me for a while as I had a great 40' slip that could accommodate 43' max from tip to tail - and they measured.

Our CHB 41 is 41' excluding the OEM anchor pulpit and swim step which bring it to 44'. Add another foot for the davits & I needed a 45' slip. With our Sarca anchor we're probably 46' LOA now. Had to switch marinas!

Hatteras' are often much longer overall than the model length.

 

[rslifkin]

Surprising how challenging it can be to get the actual LOA, LOD, WLL for vessels. This was very important for me for a while as I had a great 40' slip that could accommodate 43' max from tip to tail - and they measured.

Our CHB 41 is 41' excluding the OEM anchor pulpit and swim step which bring it to 44'. Add another foot for the davits & I needed a 45' slip. With our Sarca anchor we're probably 46' LOA now. Had to switch marinas!

Hatteras' are often much longer overall than the model length.

Newer boats are a lot better about it (although some only give LOA and LWL, not all builders give LOD). Older boats are a total crapshoot. My boat was sold with a published LOA of 38'0". In reality, that's the LOD (LWL is 33'6"). True LOA (as built) was 42'4" including the pulpit and swim platform. And now that we've added davits, we measure to about 43'6" without the dinghy and 45'10" with it hoisted.

 

[OldDan1943]

the length of my boat is a variable. It depends on the bar and what the lady looks like. LOL

 

[backinblue]

Ah, the name and size game. The boat was sold as the Nordic 37 for many years. Then American Tug introduced their AT39, and the Nordic 37 became the Nordic 39. Then magically grew to the Nordic 40 to outdo it by a foot.

3 feet of growth in just a few years! Must be really good vitamins!

My boat grew from a MS31 to a MS355. What a difference a name makes!

 

[Nick14]

the length of my boat is a variable. It depends on the bar and what the lady looks like. LOL

:lol:

 

[long-cours.62]

Me I never

the length of my boat is a variable. It depends on the bar and what the lady looks like. LOL

say the lenght of our boat because affraid than the lady answer :

"why so big boat did you need to compensate something" !!

 

[OldDan1943]

say the lenght of our boat because affraid than the lady answer :

"why so big boat did you need to compensate something" !!

LOL When it come to boats, I have never heard a lady complain, Too big. (as she slips into the hot tub)

 

[Spinner]

My 42 Nordic Tug (actually labeled so on the side!) measures out close to 52 feet from back of the dinghy to anchor tip. The survey says it’s 44.5 inch LWL. Crazy!

 

[backinblue]

My 42 Nordic Tug (actually labeled so on the side!) measures out close to 52 feet from back of the dinghy to anchor tip. The survey says it’s 44.5 inch LWL. Crazy!

That seemed to be common at one time. Now when they say a 42, it's usually pretty close. In your case, with 42 labled on the side, you can use that length for a transient slip! Chances are you won't get questioned, but you can always say you never measured it.

 

[Nick14]

It seems people would like to think their boats are bigger than they might actually be. Perhaps just like something else in life, having to do with a part of personal physiology?

 

[backinblue]

The point is that most boats are longer than the model name, but it all depends on what you are measuring. Most owners will quote LOA when asked how big their boat is and most marinas will want to charge you based on LOA. But does a swim platform and bowsprit/pulpit really make your boat any bigger just beacause it adds to the LOA? My boat is a good example.

Mainship Pilots were built as 30', 31', and 34' models. Each had a larger LOA. In 2011, a year before they went under, they re-designed and re-branded the 31 as the 355 to match it's LOA of 35'5". They had similar plans to re-brand the 34 as a 389, but I don't know if they ever got around to building one.

 

[tiltrider1]

When it comes to model length manufacturers were pretty loose with the rules. Generally, if a bowsprit or swim platform is molded in then it would be counted as part of the model length. Bolted on additions were not counted as part of the model length.

Many sailboat race models were named after their water line length. Most boats get there model length from tip to stern of the mold length. Some models got their length from measuring tip to stern along the rub rail rather than in a straight line. Then there is the rounding up. Some manufacturers round up at the typical 4/5 others rounded up as soon as they were 1 inch over.

Marina’s are only interested in your extreme length overall. Finally, length is only part of a boats measurement. With and height come into it as well. My boat is a 54’ but it’s 60’ over all and it has 50% more space than a Californian 55.

 

[SteveK]

I told you that when I decide to sell, the boat prices would fall.

Selling my GB36 now at $39,900.

Since buying the Bayliner prices have crashed on those left unsold that I was watching by about 20%-25%. I still bought well so they have a ways to go down before I start pulling hairs.

 

[backinblue]

Hairs are very valuable, don't pull to many!

 

[mvweebles]

Interesting article in Barron's on sharp decline in RVs. Wonder if foreshadows boat sales?

https://stories.app.goo.gl/T5o7


Peter

 

[backinblue]

A declining stock market and rising interest rates are very likely to affect home, boat, RV, car, motorcycle, etc prices. In fact, that is the intention of the Fed in trying to fight inflation. In the past 3 years I bought a used boat and a used car that are both worth more today than I paid for them. That is far from normal and will correct with time I'm sure.