Buyers Broker

[DeltaTango]

Hi folks,
Would like to hear some views on using a buyers broker. Is there such a thing as an impartial buyers broker given that they appear to only get their commission when you purchase? How are commissions normally split between listing and buyers brokers?
What have been people’s experience with using a buyers broker - much added value?
What’s the legal situation - who does the paperwork and who carries the liability?
How often are brokers fees negotiated as part of a sale process, would having a buyers broker affect this?
DT

 

[BruceK]

There is a discussion running right now, see http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/list-vs-sale-price-buyers-agent-40266.html

 

[DeltaTango]

I read that. Both agents from the same brokerage?!?! Clearly conflicted. Didn’t seem like a comparable situation. Some good thoughts there regardless. Thanks for the link.

 

[BruceK]

I read that. Both agents from the same brokerage?!?! Clearly conflicted. Didn’t seem like a comparable situation.

Some of the discussion may still help. I see you are in NZ. Common in USA but in Oz we don`t have a buyers broker system, usually you are on your own dealing with the seller`s broker. Friends tried using a broker they were selling through as their buyers broker but the selling brokers didn`t like the idea, unsurprisingly splitting commission is not popular.
I think it`s a crap system. The buyers broker gets paid by the seller out of the sellers commission, if and only if there is a sale. How is that for independence and conflict? I`m sure there are good ethical guys out there, but to me the independence you`d need is not there, the 2 brokers are going to get together to somehow get it over the line. May work in USA but here I would not bother.

Paperwork in OZ doesn`t require much expertise,don`t know about NZ, I`m sure a selling broker would help a buyer, as would your registration authority.

Liability? Not sure what you mean. Protect yourself by survey and ownership checks? Vet the proposed sale agreement yourself or see a lawyer. There is probably a standard form agreement commonly used but at least check if it covers your situation.

Fee Negotiation? You can negotiate most things.

 

[ksanders]

If I ever decide I want or need a different boat I will use a buyers broker that specializes in the particular kind/style of boat I am after.

A sellers broker wants to sell you a specific boat you are interested in at the moment.

A buyers Broker of course wants you to buy a boat, but he or she does not really care about any particular boat, listed with any particular agency.

A specialized buyers broker is always looking at boats that come up for sale within his or her specialty. They are generally experts in that particular style of boat and are better prepared to help match the best boat to your needs and budget. They are often semi or full on technical experts and can point out challenges with a particular boat long before a surveyer gets involved.

The problem with a buyers broker is unfortunately one of finances. Everyone needs to make a living. With a 10% commission being split in half there is a dollar amount where below that where it is not reasonable to expect a buyers broker to exert a whole bunch of time probably flying around inspecting potential boats with you. I do not know what that dollar amount is but I’m guessing that with a half million dollar budget you could probably attract a pretty good buyers broker that specializes in Trawlers. If your budget is more modest at some point it will be difficult to attract the interest of a buyers broker for anything but local boats.

 

[Aquabelle]

A specialized buyers broker is always looking at boats that come up for sale within his or her specialty. They are generally experts in that particular style of boat and are better prepared to help match the best boat to your needs and budget. They are often semi or full on technical experts and can point out challenges with a particular boat long before a surveyer gets involved.

Kevin: as an Aussie who plans to buy a boat in the US (or maybe Canada) in the next 12-18 months, I'd be interested in knowing how to track down specialist buyers' brokers. Is there a listing somewhere of these folks?

tks

 

[AKDoug]

I made an offer on a vessel I wanted, the deal fell through when the seller raised his asking price. I continued to use the same broker to go after a sister ship in another state. I was the one tendering the offer, but the broker handled the communications for the sale with the broker for the seller. I don't know how they split the commission, but I was happy with the service I received, and whatever the commission was it came out of the seller's piece of the pie.

 

[dmooch]

Hi Folks,
Responding to the buyers broker question...

This is coming from a Newbie, only experience we've had was on runabouts. Now am the proud owner of 1988 Grand Banks Classic, "Angelina". So, here's the story and hope that it proves to be helpful to those of you who may be looking for a "buyers broker" or just some fantastic people who are always there when you need them to guide you along in the process. No, I am not a paid client for my opinion. Just one heck of a happy customer and boat owner.

My wife and I started our search some 2 years ago. We knew we wanted to get back to boating, just weren't sure to what extent or what kind of boat, etc. After attending countless boat shows and speaking with as many brokers, I finally attended a TRAWLERFEST. That was pronbably one of the best things I could have done for our search. It gave me a whole new experience and insight. I thought I knew what I was doing before attending, going to boat shows, etc., but that was nearly as helpful as the Fest.
While there I attended many many workshops that covered a range of topics from purchase, survey, type of vessel for you, new boats & used boats, engine specifics, weather topics, first aid, safety, cruising, how to care for your cruiser and more. I attended several workshops presented by a fellow by the name of STEVE ZIMMERMAN. WOW! What I learned from this unassuming boatsman was incredible. Steve also conducts an engine course with Nigel Calder. Steve is the kind of fellow to stop and speak with the "common folk" after his presentations and is happy to impart his thoughts and ideas on any question you shoot at him. So, of course, I told him my story and he listened and responded. Our conversation ended and I knew much more than I had know about boats just an hour before. Interestingly, as I walked out of the workshop I saw a small publication, "Yacht Purchase Support Program." The information outline a process used by Steve's company to assist in purchasing newer used boats. This program seemed to include the assistance I needed to help with the purchase of our first "big boat". Note, not once did this gentleman mention this program during the presentations. He was not hawking his goods!
Anyway, my wife and I read through the information, made serval phone calls to clarify any questions we had about the program, check references and decided to go with Steve's service. Shortly after my signing of the contract I began to work with a representative of Steve's group by the name of Haywood May. We meet Haywood through our initial creation of the cruising profile that would be needed for the process. After several conference calls(we are located in Long Island, NY, Steve in MD., and Haywood in ME.) we began to receive listings of the boats that suited our needs based on what we presented in our cruising profile meetings. From that point we worked closely with Haywood until we came upon the boat we now own. Our process from start to finish was about Oct to June.
The entire process has been incredible. We had a super surveyor by the name of Mike Prevetti out of Solomons Is, MD. We couldn't had a better one for my money. To this day, if I text Mike with a quick question, he is back to me in no time at all.

The service we have received from Haywood was nothing short of incredible. He is a man of integrity, honesty, and a straight shooter with a certain dry sense of humor...a great guy. He tells you the good, the bad and the ugly of the boat or anything else he needs to share with you to help you make this major decision. His response time either in phone call, text, or email was terrific. he helped us through the entire process from purchase, documentation, survey, water trial, possession of the boat and cruising the boat with us from ME to NY. I can't say enough good things about this gentleman.

In our entire experience, I have to say that everyone that i have come into concat with this organization has been specular. Every time I call one of the 4 shipyards that are a part of Zimmerman Marine, I get great service. Folks are eager to answer my sometime foolish question with out pause. The service after the process was been as good as the service before we signed the contract to use the service.

In a nutshel, the service included: boat selection, cruising profile, the survey process, post-survey negotiations, post survey estimates/cost. BTW, there is no added cost to you, the buyer. There is credit for services at Zimmermans based on the purchase price of your boat, a post purchase limited warranty, and 24/7 technical support. Anyone interested should really check out the web site: ZimmermanMarine.com find out for yourself.

feel free to reach out to me for clarifications I might be able to provide.
Dmooch
42 GB Classic (1988)
Angelina

 

[tiltrider1]

is There one specific region you want to buy the boat in? If you only want to buy a boat on the east coast I would not use a west coast broker.

 

[Flatswing]

Hi Folks,
Responding to the buyers broker question...

This is coming from a Newbie, only experience we've had was on runabouts. Now am the proud owner of 1988 Grand Banks Classic, "Angelina". So, here's the story and hope that it proves to be helpful to those of you who may be looking for a "buyers broker" or just some fantastic people who are always there when you need them to guide you along in the process. No, I am not a paid client for my opinion. Just one heck of a happy customer and boat owner.

My wife and I started our search some 2 years ago. We knew we wanted to get back to boating, just weren't sure to what extent or what kind of boat, etc. After attending countless boat shows and speaking with as many brokers, I finally attended a TRAWLERFEST. That was pronbably one of the best things I could have done for our search. It gave me a whole new experience and insight. I thought I knew what I was doing before attending, going to boat shows, etc., but that was nearly as helpful as the Fest.
While there I attended many many workshops that covered a range of topics from purchase, survey, type of vessel for you, new boats & used boats, engine specifics, weather topics, first aid, safety, cruising, how to care for your cruiser and more. I attended several workshops presented by a fellow by the name of STEVE ZIMMERMAN. WOW! What I learned from this unassuming boatsman was incredible. Steve also conducts an engine course with Nigel Calder. Steve is the kind of fellow to stop and speak with the "common folk" after his presentations and is happy to impart his thoughts and ideas on any question you shoot at him. So, of course, I told him my story and he listened and responded. Our conversation ended and I knew much more than I had know about boats just an hour before. Interestingly, as I walked out of the workshop I saw a small publication, "Yacht Purchase Support Program." The information outline a process used by Steve's company to assist in purchasing newer used boats. This program seemed to include the assistance I needed to help with the purchase of our first "big boat". Note, not once did this gentleman mention this program during the presentations. He was not hawking his goods!
Anyway, my wife and I read through the information, made serval phone calls to clarify any questions we had about the program, check references and decided to go with Steve's service. Shortly after my signing of the contract I began to work with a representative of Steve's group by the name of Haywood May. We meet Haywood through our initial creation of the cruising profile that would be needed for the process. After several conference calls(we are located in Long Island, NY, Steve in MD., and Haywood in ME.) we began to receive listings of the boats that suited our needs based on what we presented in our cruising profile meetings. From that point we worked closely with Haywood until we came upon the boat we now own. Our process from start to finish was about Oct to June.
The entire process has been incredible. We had a super surveyor by the name of Mike Prevetti out of Solomons Is, MD. We couldn't had a better one for my money. To this day, if I text Mike with a quick question, he is back to me in no time at all.

The service we have received from Haywood was nothing short of incredible. He is a man of integrity, honesty, and a straight shooter with a certain dry sense of humor...a great guy. He tells you the good, the bad and the ugly of the boat or anything else he needs to share with you to help you make this major decision. His response time either in phone call, text, or email was terrific. he helped us through the entire process from purchase, documentation, survey, water trial, possession of the boat and cruising the boat with us from ME to NY. I can't say enough good things about this gentleman.

In our entire experience, I have to say that everyone that i have come into concat with this organization has been specular. Every time I call one of the 4 shipyards that are a part of Zimmerman Marine, I get great service. Folks are eager to answer my sometime foolish question with out pause. The service after the process was been as good as the service before we signed the contract to use the service.

In a nutshel, the service included: boat selection, cruising profile, the survey process, post-survey negotiations, post survey estimates/cost. BTW, there is no added cost to you, the buyer. There is credit for services at Zimmermans based on the purchase price of your boat, a post purchase limited warranty, and 24/7 technical support. Anyone interested should really check out the web site: ZimmermanMarine.com find out for yourself.

feel free to reach out to me for clarifications I might be able to provide.
Dmooch
42 GB Classic (1988)
Angelina

I am using Zimmermans Yacht Purchase Service also having met Steve through identical circumstances! Completely agree with the above. One cavet, their minimum is $200k, but if you are looking in this market or above, I couldn't recommend them more strongly.

 

[ksanders]

Jeff Merrill is well known in the Trawler world

I do not know him personally but he would be a person i would certainly consider as a buyers broker for Trawler/expedition style boats.

 

[dmooch]

Forgot to mention in my post on buyers brokers...my guy, Haywood May specializes in trawlers. He has his own 36 Grand Banks.

ps...I know Jeff Merrill and he is a great guy. Meet him at Trawlerfest years back.
Dmooch

 

[Aquabelle]

is There one specific region you want to buy the boat in? If you only want to buy a boat on the east coast I would not use a west coast broker.

I would prefer a fresh water boat....specific location not important as we are happy to begin our Loop exploration anywhere (almost ). Don't want to buy on West coast or PNW however.

 

[Shrew]

Listing Broker's represent the interests of the seller. A buyers broker represents the interest of the buyer.

The issue is in how the buyer's broker gets paid. Commission is typically 10% paid to the listing broker, and taken from the sell price (paid by the seller).

How much is the buyer's broker commission?

Will the listing broker be willing to split the commission with the buyer's broker?

Will the buyer's broker expect you to pay the commission if the listing broker won't split?

Will the buyer's broker expect you to pay the difference in commission if the commission amount is split with the listing broker?

If you expect a buyers broker to travel long distances to vet boats for you, that will be a costly service. I suspect much is done via internet searches and phone, just like you would do normally. I'm not saying it's a bad service. These folks have a large network of connections. IF time is an issue, this might be a good option for you.

 

[Shrew]

Listing Broker's represent the interests of the seller. A buyers broker represents the interest of the buyer.

The issue is in how the buyer's broker gets paid. Commission is typically 10% paid to the listing broker, and taken from the sell price (paid by the seller).

How much is the buyer's broker commission?

Will the listing broker be willing to split the commission with the buyer's broker?

Will the buyer's broker expect you to pay the commission if the listing broker won't split?

Will the buyer's broker expect you to pay the difference in commission if the commission amount is split with the listing broker?

If you expect a buyers broker to travel long distances to vet boats for you, that will be a costly service. I suspect much is done via internet searches and phone, just like you would do normally. I'm not saying it's a bad service. These folks have a large network of connections. IF time is an issue, this might be a good option for you.

 

[Rmlow]

We worked with Jeff Merril as a buyer's broker
on the purchase of our Selene 53. Cant say enough about the level of service he provided, a true professional in every sense!

Jeff is a trawler specialist and really knows his stuff. He insisted we look thoroughly before we made any decisions, helped us weigh them and kept us from making a mistake early on in our search.

Jeff was also a steady hand in dealing with a difficult seller when we found the right boat. He's also just plain fun to be around and made a stressful decision and purchase process exciting and enjoyable.

We still keep in touch regularly and have become friends through the process.

 

[friz]

Commission is typically 10% paid to the listing broker, and taken from the sell price (paid by the seller).

I am not a broker and have never sold used cars for a living but - Why in the heck would the seller pay someone who is basically his adversary (buyer's broker) in the sale? The listing broker may want to make an arrangement with his commission but as a seller I cannot see any advantage in paying someone to work against me.

 

[Bacchus]

I've heard of 50-50 split as one common.
I've also heard 60-40 w listing broker getting more to cover advertising & other expenses.
When I bought my current Mainship I found the boat I was interested in and had by brother act as my buyer broker. He first contacted the owner... after some detective work... to see if he was happy w listing broker and would sell direct. Owner said pleased w broker so buyer brkr contacted listing brkr to explore willingness to cobroke listing brkr anxious to close a deal offer 60% to buyer brkr if he handled the paperwork & escrow.
Lesson learned if seller & listing brkr are hungry for a sale prospective buyer & buyer brkr have some negotiating power.
I would guess if they just listed the boat and it hadn't sat for awhile cooperation and split might have been different.
My first experience w buyer brkr but felt it was a plus having someone represent me.
I do realize not everyone has the same level of trust in their broker.

 

[danderer]

I'll admit I have limited experience with brokers -- everything we've bought and sold so far has been by-owner. Just happened to work out that way. But we're looking at a formal buyers-broker arrangement for the next boat and are very interested in the Zimmerman program.

However, some of the best boats we would consider never get listed with a broker. They sell via word-of-mouth or through a listing on the owners association website or.. How does a buyers-broker work in those cases? I could imagine they are simply not involved, or we pay them out of our pocket, or a T+M arrangement.

Any thoughts or relevant experiences?

 

[tiltrider1]

I'll admit I have limited experience with brokers -- everything we've bought and sold so far has been by-owner. Just happened to work out that way. But we're looking at a formal buyers-broker arrangement for the next boat and are very interested in the Zimmerman program.

However, some of the best boats we would consider never get listed with a broker. They sell via word-of-mouth or through a listing on the owners association website or.. How does a buyers-broker work in those cases? I could imagine they are simply not involved, or we pay them out of our pocket, or a T+M arrangement.

Any thoughts or relevant experiences?

In these cases you either don’t involve the broke, in which case you and the seller will have to handle all the paper work, or you have a prearranged agreement with your buyer broker that he gets a fee for handeling the paper work but not the full commission since he didn’t find the boat. You will have to pay the broker yourself.

 

[Shrew]

I am not a broker and have never sold used cars for a living but - Why in the heck would the seller pay someone who is basically his adversary (buyer's broker) in the sale? The listing broker may want to make an arrangement with his commission but as a seller I cannot see any advantage in paying someone to work against me.

That is really my point. Technically, the 10% is withheld from the sell price and given to the listing broker. The question is around whether the listing broker is willing to split it with the buyer's broker, and if so, how much?

The seller doesn't pay the buyer's broker directly, nor does the seller dictate how the commission is split or who pays the buyers broker.

More important is around the buyer's contract with the buying broker. What is the buyer's broker's expectation?

 

[ssteakley]

A lot depends on the purchase price of a vessel when it comes to the split between brokers. Brokers are much less motivated to co-broker on vessels under $100k. As the price goes up so does the willingness on the selling broker to share the 10% commission. We recently purchased a vessel at the $70K level and I did not feel comfortable bringing in a buyers broker since the sales commission is relatively low. Plus this was our 5th vessel and I felt savy enough to represent myself and I am not afraid to ask the tough questions. If I do not get an answer then I avoid dealing with those people. Also there is lots of research you can do on your own if you have the time. If the research is done properly then you will know almost or maybe even more than the owner.

 

[BruceK]

I am not a broker and have never sold used cars for a living but - Why in the heck would the seller pay someone who is basically his adversary (buyer's broker) in the sale? The listing broker may want to make an arrangement with his commission but as a seller I cannot see any advantage in paying someone to work against me.

Why assume the "buyers broker" is working against the seller? The 'buyers broker" only gets paid if the sale proceeds. Is his function to altruistically help buyers, or a business to earn commissions?
A "2 broker sale" is more "conjunction sale" than anything else.