California Mandatory Boater Card-1 year Report

[Benthic2]

..... But see above about the taking away part.....

Are you saying that its a bad thing that the state can take away your right to operate a boat ??? I think that's a good thing. Spend a half hour at the local boat ramp at the end of a warm summer day, and you would too !!

I realize that sounds kind of elitist or snobby, but it really seems like there is an inverse relationship between "OMG Moments" and boat length. Perhaps its skewed by proportional representation, but I have more confidence that a 50 footer is going to do the right thing, than a little bowrider or skiff.

 

[psneeld]

That question was from the "ABC" book and exam, co-authored by the USCG Auxiliary and US Power Squadron, and based on NASBLA requirements. Over time, the section on knots was removed to make way for stuff like BUI rules, CO poisoning and other laws.

But for years, that question was still on the exam.



Be careful what you ask for. Many states are calling it a "certification" or simply "education requirement." Once you've been "educated," it's a lifetime thing.

I always correct those who call it a "license." That would imply two things; a privilege which can be revoked on any meager excuse, and an on-going source of revenue for the state.

I'd personally rather not go down that path.



Yes, the benefit is in knowing there are rules. But see above about the taking away part.

And since it's just a very basic introduction, mostly about the rules, I think it's perfectly appropriate to get everyone to the same starting point, regardless of what vessel they operate.

Again, the fallacy is thinking these classes are intended to teach you to operate a boat. They are not.

Taught the course in NJ for 15 years and friendly with most Troopers on the water through assistance towing...along the way I got the "big picture".


No matter what you call it, if you cant operate a boat without it like in NJ and I though at least most states below a certain age, it is a HUGE tool in enforcement. Its up to the LE and justice system to use it properly.

 

[oscar]

If it forces HALF the idiots out there to stop and think about what they're doing, I'll happily suffer the inconvenience. Many people out on the water don't even KNOW there are rules of the road. Hopefully when I show up they will realize they forgot which rule applied and SLOW down.

And yes, losing the privilege for those that give us the middle finger is also a good idea.

 

[CaptTom]

Are you saying that its a bad thing that the state can take away your right to operate a boat ??? I think that's a good thing. Spend a half hour at the local boat ramp at the end of a warm summer day, and you would too !!

The state can take away your right to operate a boat without any education requirement. In most states, if you get an OUI and have your driver's license revoked, they can and will revoke your right to operate a boat, too.

The problem comes about when you call operating a boat a privilege that you need a license for. Those words scare me. Licenses are a source of revenue.

Cranking up huge annual license fees for the privilege of operating a boat would be much safer, politically, than fees on something a majority of voters would have to pay. In most places, boaters are in the minority.

I want the ignorant yahoos off the water too. I'm just not ready trade my right to operate for a privilege.

 

[Benthic2]

I have no problem with it as a source of revenue. There's a lot of expense involved in maintaining safe waterways and it has to be offset by some sort of revenue. It makes sense to have a boating based revenue stream.

 

[markpierce]

Am paying property tax on my boat and berth annually, as well having paid five-figure use tax on the purchase. How much more do you want to take from me in additional taxes?

 

[psneeld]

It's not a source of revenue for many states, definitely not NJ which is one of the toughest.


How can they take away your boating rights or priveledges unless you have some form of documentation?


Sure they can just put it on your license and if that gets taken away it works...but what if your boating ones are taken but your driving is not hamered? Tracking and enforcement would get comicated and this method works better than most suggestions...it just doesn't guarantee good behavior, manners or even basic operation.

 

[deblen]

California is just doing what most coastal states have already done. They're actually being relatively lax, allowing many different options, including on-line testing, that some state's don't. I'm not saying it's good, just not out of line with other states.



Yes, commercial fishing licenses and MMC's are exempt in California. Even other STCW credentials.

Again without endorsing the concept, my take on these boater education requirements is that it forces every boater (or in the case of on-line courses, some friend or relative of every boater) to sit and think about how little knowledge and experience they really have.

It introduces them to the concept that there ARE rules out on the water; that it's not a free-for-all out there just because there are no stop signs, red lights or traffic lines.

Yes, they'll quickly forget a lot of the details. But they'll know that they don't know it all. From what I've seen out on the water, there is a lot of value in that.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head!!
Len

 

[EngNate]

...at least a first time driver's exam requires one to actually drive and park a car - what a concept! We could eliminate a lot of idiots right there!

 

[markpierce]

...

Sure they can just put it on your license and if that gets taken away it works...but what if your boating ones are taken but your driving is not hamered? Tracking and enforcement would get comicated and this method works better than most suggestions...it just doesn't guarantee good behavior, manners or even basic operation.

Just wait. Certification will likely evolved into a license.

 

[psneeld]

The safety card process is over 20 years old in a state that makes most states programs look weak and it hasn't morphed into anything else.


It isn't for revenue , most eople only see the one side of the debate...and think it is useless...too bad.

 

[CaptTom]

...at least a first time driver's exam requires one to actually drive and park a car - what a concept! We could eliminate a lot of idiots right there!

I can't argue with that. Right now, all you need is a fat bank account to get underway in a boat. The low barrier to entry is a real problem.

But on the flip side, some of us grew up around boats. I don't think raising high financial barriers is fair to those people.

Finally, look at the folks who do pass a driver's test. There are certainly some among them who scare me at least as much as the clueless boater.

It's not a source of revenue for many states, definitely not NJ which is one of the toughest.

How can they take away your boating rights or priveledges unless you have some form of documentation?

Sure they can just put it on your license and if that gets taken away it works...but what if your boating ones are taken but your driving is not hamered? Tracking and enforcement would get comicated and this method works better than most suggestions...it just doesn't guarantee good behavior, manners or even basic operation.

Right. The point is to keep it from becoming a revenue stream. That's why in most states, it's an "education requirement" and not a "license."

And yes, today many states will pull your driver's licence if you get a BUI conviction. Likewise, if you get caught operating a boat with an OUI and suspended driver's license, you'll be in just as much trouble as if you were driving a car.

This is how the law is enforced. They don't stand at the top of the ramp and block you from getting in a boat, any more than they stand in your driveway and block you from getting in your car. They don't pull over every driver or boat operator. But when they do stop you, you better be legal!

For these purposes, proof of identity, and a computer, is all they need. A physical license does very little as far as enforcement is concerned.

 

[deblen]

...at least a first time driver's exam requires one to actually drive and park a car - what a concept! We could eliminate a lot of idiots right there!

A new road vehicle driver applicant must pass a written test FIRST-to prove they know the rules,responsibilities, AND the penalties---BEFORE they can take a road test.
THEN,they must take a road test,to prove that they can actually operate their class of vehicle properly & safely-including departing,docking,light & sound signals,right of way rules,etc.


To my knowledge,no US state or Cdn province is demanding a "road test" for recreational boaters,to see if they know how to operate their boat.
In fact,anyone can write these "tests" online ( & cheat).
They will get a card/paper that allows them to jump in ANY kind of recreational boat and legally do their thing.


They may be responsible & penalized(maybe) for the injuries/damage they cause-mainly BECAUSE they have a card/paper that says they KNOW the responsibilities that they undertook as a "recreational boat operator".


Many places even allow you to "challenge" the written test,or "grandfather" you,because of your age/years of boating.



With apologies to EngNate-
I don't think a basic written test is unreasonable-for safety. / Len


The questions of "tax grab",etc.,etc.,-best settled at the polls.

 

[DCDC]

As mentioned above, Alabama is one of those states with a grandfather clause. Exempt from education/testing for any boat operator who was born prior to April 28, 1954. Wisdom of the ages? Tribal knowledge? Senility in denial? Attempt to protect ourselves from those damn fool young’uns?

The information and test could be considered basic by experienced boaters (or those wise enough to be born before April 28, 1954) but much better than nothing. Cost is $5 plus $36.25 if certification required. Probably just covers the cost of an hour’s time at the license bureau.

 

[bgillroy]

You have to love the regulatory and governmental industry on CA quote robust and profitable well paid salaries and benefits ...all States should be so blessed.

 

[FF]

Most USCG licenses to carry passengers for hire have time on board requirements and only a paper test.


No need to demonstrate even the ability to walk down a dock!

 

[88FuHwa]

Although I don't need to get my card until 2025, I believe this regulation is long overdue. Whether in the Sacramento Delta or in the SF Bay, I have seen plenty of idiots on both sailboats and power boats that clearly do not appear to have the required skills. I agree that more emphasis should be given to an operating (driver) test particularly for those fools on wave runners and ski boats that pull wake boarders.

 

[GFC]

WA is one of the states that old farts like me are grandfathered in. WA also allows a boater visitor who does not have is boater safety card to operate a boat if there is a "licensed" person on board. You guys are upset about this safety requirement and on the other hand are upset about not requiring the boaters to take a "driving test". You can't have it both ways.


Just think of the headaches a driving test or skill test would create. The examiner would have to go out on the newby's boat so the newby would either have to drive his boat to the examiner's dock, or the examiner would have to drive to the location of the newby's boat and administer the test there.


Also, consider the huge government bureaucracy this would create--all those examiners, all the supervisors, vehicles to transport them, office staff, office locations around the state, etc.


Talk about creating a political monstrosity.


Speaking just for myself here, I'm glad they have some sort of licensing program.. No, it's not perfect, but at least it gets people a way to learn the rules, and gives the state (cops) a way to jerk them off the water if they don't have their safety card.

 

[Carriage Guy]

Boater Safety online class free from Boat US

At least in Florida, you can take the Boater Safety class online for free through Boat US. I remember part of the sign up process involved picking your state so I can't believe they don't offer the same deal elsewhere.
Don't even have to be a Boat US member although they will follow up later with a donation request email to support their education efforts. Florida Fish and Wildlife sends you your plastic card a few weeks later, also for free.
Online test is the same format as mentioned above, 6 or so chapter tests followed by a "final". And yes, PWC's were covered.
But, the price was right for me.

 

[88FuHwa]

GFC - you are right, as I had not thought of the logistics and the bureaucracy.

 

[psneeld]

There is lots that people here haven't thought of or know about the entire process and background.

 

[CaptTom]

At least in Florida, you can take the Boater Safety class online for free through Boat US.

A lot of states are doing this. I've read there's some evidence to suggest that in many cases, one person runs through the on-line exam multiple times, in the name of each member of the entire extended family and all their friends. They all get cards, but have zero exposure to the material.

Other states require a proctored exam after passing the on-line practice test. It's a lot more work for the state, and causes layers of entrenched bureaucracy, but sadly it's probably a better alternative.

An in-person class is probably best, but it is a burden. If you're going to operate a boat, I'd think you'd want to do at least that much. But enough people don't agree that most states don't require it.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

OK so I have been reading all the comments here. I do not think the current system of requiring a boater's card does nothing to increase safety on the water. Will the person taking the online course, paying their $10 fee (or free) have any additional knowledge or more experience? Likely NOT! They will breeze through the course to meet the requirement. Will the person understand "right of way" or "Red, Right, Return?" Nope.

The only way is to require "in class study" with practical on hand at the wheel experience. At the end, the student would be required to pass a written test and a operation test.

Again the card requirement is nothing more than a political scheme, nothing more.

 

[CaptTom]

The only way is to require "in class study" with practical on hand at the wheel experience. At the end, the student would be required to pass a written test and a operation test.

How did you learn? For years I never had a class, and never had an exam.

I got my first boat at 14. Before that I'd built rafts and paddled canoes. I learned from others. Some formally trained, some with years of experience.

It wasn't until I graduated to a larger boat capable of taking me into unfamiliar waters that I sought out more advanced training. The basic boating safety class was a pre-requisite.

I was pretty cynical about that class. I doubted they could teach me anything, after a lifetime of recreational and commercial boat handling.

I had to admit a got a lot out of the class, and even learned a few things I hadn't known.

I've also taken boat handling exams, and frankly, there's not much value there. It's not like handling a car. Anybody can steer a boat in good conditions. Only experience can get you through bad conditions. I don't think we want to send every new boater to heavy weather boat handling training.

All we can expect from beginners is that they know some basic rules, and have an awareness that they don't know it all. That's the goal of the state education requirements.

 

[psneeld]

A lot of states are doing this. I've read there's some evidence to suggest that in many cases, one person runs through the on-line exam multiple times, in the name of each member of the entire extended family and all their friends. They all get cards, but have zero exposure to the material.

Other states require a proctored exam after passing the on-line practice test. It's a lot more work for the state, and causes layers of entrenched bureaucracy, but sadly it's probably a better alternative.

An in-person class is probably best, but it is a burden. If you're going to operate a boat, I'd think you'd want to do at least that much. But enough people don't agree that most states don't require it.

Proctored exams in NJ are almost all given by private enterprise or volunteer organizations. There was only ONE person running the program from NJ state police HQ for many years. They may have had a second one during the peak "catchup" years.


But there ae no "layers of entrenched bureaucracy". The state started teaching it and realized it would cause too much bureacracy so set up the program and let private enterprise and volunteer orgs take the ball and run with it.

 

[CaptTom]

Proctored exams in NJ are almost all given by private enterprise or volunteer organizations. There was only ONE person running the program from NJ state police HQ for many years. They may have had a second one during the peak "catchup" years.

But there ae no "layers of entrenched bureaucracy". The state started teaching it and realized it would cause too much bureacracy so set up the program and let private enterprise and volunteer orgs take the ball and run with it.

That's good to hear. Sounds like a very sensible arrangement.

 

[GFC]

But there ae no "layers of entrenched bureaucracy". The state started teaching it and realized it would cause too much bureacracy so set up the program and let private enterprise and volunteer orgs take the ball and run with it.

No layers? Sounds to me like they just moved the bureaucracy to the private sector instead of managing it under the state employment. I doubt the private sector is managing the program out of the good of their hearts. They're getting paid and likely well paid.

Now, can you imagine how big that private sector operation would be if they included a boat handling course? They'd have to have a pace where an applicant could bring his boat to pick up the instructor, or the instructor would have to go to the applicant's boat.

Either way, it would involve a lot of man hours and a lot of money. Also, bureaucracies never get smaller, they seem to always grow exponentially..

 

[sunchaser]

OK, so let's pretend there is a test for boaters like both the written and driver's portion for autos. Who administers the driving portion for the multitudes of very different vessels and activities on the water?

Further, who trains the testers? Last but not least, is a nautical driving test a solution for a problem that doesn't exist?

 

[psneeld]

No layers? Sounds to me like they just moved the bureaucracy to the private sector instead of managing it under the state employment. I doubt the private sector is managing the program out of the good of their hearts. They're getting paid and likely well paid.

Now, can you imagine how big that private sector operation would be if they included a boat handling course? They'd have to have a pace where an applicant could bring his boat to pick up the instructor, or the instructor would have to go to the applicant's boat.

Either way, it would involve a lot of man hours and a lot of money. Also, bureaucracies never get smaller, they seem to always grow exponentially..

Wrong on many levels.


I was a teacher for a school for 14 years.


No one was getting rich and if they were, the USCGAUX or other volunteers would have siphoned off most of the students.


Sure adding a boat handling session would add complexity....duh. But that doesn't mean a class only course is worthless.. The day you teach it for one minute, or have more facts than the typical internet keyboard commando, I will consider you a reasonable person to discuss it with.

 

[GFC]

The day you teach it for one minute, or have more facts than the typical internet keyboard commando, I will consider you a reasonable person to discuss it with.

psneeld, I don't want to get into a pissing match with you but, for the record, I have never said the classroom sessions were worthless. Much to the contrary, I believe they are valuable because of the exchange of information between the people in the class as well as the information presented by the instructors.

I've had 5 or 6 classes taught by Power Squadrons, USCGAuxs and a sheriff's deputy. The first one I took was in the 60's, and the most recent about 5 years ago.

I'm not sure I have more facts than your "keyboard commando" but I'd bet that I have a lot more experience than that commando. Sixty plus years of boating have taught me a thing or two about boating safely.