Canada Shuts Down Border

[catalinajack]

Yeah, in Canada the portable credit card processing devices are brought to the table. Aside from the sanitizing issue, the credit card never leaves the customers hands which very much decreases the chances of a credit card number being stolen. In the States, it is rare to see portable machines being used by any merchant?

BC government doesn't even want Albertans to visit:



https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/...eller-information/travel-affected-by-covid-19

Went for our first restaurant meal in a coons age today.

Hand sanitizer at door. Wrote down our names and phone number, for later contact tracing if needed. All staff wearing masks. Only half the tables in use. Photocopied menus. Waitress took nothing away from table until we left. Put dishes and drinks at tables edge and we passed them down the booth table. Sanitized the credit card machine before use.

New normal for a while.

 

[catalinajack]

Could it be that the few number of cases is the result of the lockdown? Do you really think these statistics will remain the same when society is opened up?

Frosty: "It sounds as if you would prefer to open up now and let the chips fall where they may. You are not alone in that (certainly not in the US, my country)."
Me:Open up yes. did not say "let chips fall where they may".
I am going on the stats within BC, from 2507 cases 2042 have recovered 81%. Today, 41 in hospital of that 8 in ICU. Sadly we have had 155 deaths to date from our 5 + million population. Based on these stats and where they are going (and before the big 2nd wave) I would like to open the borders and get back to normal asap. This pandemic did not reach the hype it was given at 0.003%

 

[SteveK]

Could it be that the few number of cases is the result of the lockdown? Do you really think these statistics will remain the same when society is opened up?

Define lockdown. Here it was a suggestion to stay home and work from home to avoid shoulder to shoulder contact situations. Transit buses closed off ever 2nd seat. People were mostly seen safe distancing.
On my block no one is missing. We go for walks and exchange conversations. We go shopping when needed. Once the crazies stock piled toilet paper and had no room left the shelves are full again.
Internally, BC has done well, except in care homes where many seniors were lost to group outbreaks. One day the stats will be out, my guess is 50% or 75 people were from care homes. That is as close to permanent lockdown as it gets. Then we have outbreaks in jobs like meat processing plants, where it is now suspected the noise causes people to yell at each other which propels droplets further. Glad restaurants were shut down early as we sit around a table and yell to be heard over the roar of voices.
My American friends seen to speak louder in normal situations.
JP Morgan has a study that cases are falling after a lockdown.

 

[firehoser75]

To me, there is likely to be an issue with "completely opening up". Travel! This means the ability to "import cases" from somewhere else, potentially starting up all over again.

Don't misunderstand, I am not in favour of some kind of total "isolation" strategy. However, you can implement the "gold standard" of pandemic responses and achieve great success where you are, but may just start over if you "import" new cases from somewhere that hasn't done a good job of containment. This general statement is probably true for areas, regions, and countries (even travel from one county or community to another).
With our (North America's ) decision to "do this locally" as far as pandemic response plans, travel could turn out to be the Achilles heel???
I don't think we will see it, but I think at least some "basic" response methods must be employed everywhere. We must get on the same page, at least to a point, but I don't see that happening in the near future and this concerns me.

 

[SteveK]

Yesterday a beautiful event was held at the Peace Arch Park. In the no mans land friends and relatives were allowed to meet, hug and kiss on a nice sunny day without crossing the border.

ETA: Peace Arch park is on the Canada/US border at Blaine Washington and Surrey BC. It was American and Canadian friends/family

 

[Frosty]

Yesterday a beautiful event was held at the Peace Arch Park. In the no mans land friends and relatives were allowed to meet, hug and kiss on a nice sunny day without crossing the border.

But how did they make it "no virus" land? I would be concerned if I lived in any of their home communities because they will be going back there after kissing people from a different community.

Or maybe they had all been tested just before kissing? (Still that pesky issue of a high false negative rate.)

I have to say this sounds irresponsible to me. I mean, kissing?

Are you serious or are you trolling?

 

[firehoser75]

Frosty,
Just what I was talking about. While it is wonderful to see friends and family, get close, touch, hug, even kiss, maybe now is not yet the right time?? We can do this in a more socially (for this time) responsible manner.

This thing is far from under control and we (the collective we) need to still act in a responsible (to everyone not just being selfish) manner. As an example, the US will probably pass the 100,000 death mark today, with 1.7 million confirmed cases (actual cases well above that figure), and the numbers here (Canada) and there are still rising.

 

[SteveK]

Last week friends arrived back home from Cabo.
They drove, no problem into the US, stayed 3 nights in hotels along the way and crossed into Canada. Yes they then had to 14 day quarantine at home after using a ferry to get there.
This is not an isolated case, but we do not hear about them.
Planes are still landing in Vancouver, people are still moving around. Locally rush hour traffic is at 60% (my estimate)

 

[firehoser75]

Yes, we have to "start down" the path to the new normal, but it should be in carefully monitored stages. Otherwise, all of the "pain" so far could easily end up being a total waste!

For a while, we had people who were on the way to their quarantine stopping to go to the grocery store, or for booze, etc. Obviously (at least to most of us) not the intent!

 

[BruceK]

For a while, we had people who were on the way to their quarantine stopping to go to the grocery store, or for booze, etc. Obviously (at least to most of us) not the intent!

We had that and worse. Like skiers returning from US,not quarantining, and causing a local spike. A US wedding guest infecting 35 in the early days.We began using underutilized hotels for compulsory supervised quarantine, paid for by Govt. They cannot go out, they get tested if indicated.The only people entering Australia from overseas are returning citizens and residents, and maybe compassionate cases. It works, we are catching infections in quarantine.
Yesterday Australia identified 3 new cases. Will it last? Doubt it, our staged relaxations will surely produce cases. I can only hope it stays controllable, winter is upon us. Today all kids are back at school and people are encouraged to resume work at their workplace if thought necessary. Little steps, watch, observe, adjust, reconsider, etc. Public transport restrictions compliance will be a challenge.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

border closure most likely extended to end of July

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-closure-to-end-july-sources-idUSKBN23G301

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well preparing for 2021

 

[soin2la]

I have been informed by a contact in the Washington State Legislation that the June 21 date is not just an arbitrary extension. That there are discussions going on between US and Canada to open the border on June 23.

Despite all the noise presently coming from San Juan County, it to will be opened on June 23 for tourists.

What is the latest from your informed source?

 

[SteveK]

What is the latest from your informed source?

Well, as of yesterday BC put a damper on that as WA continues to fight the good battle and we don't want them bringing it here. But I had heard the 23rd was the target date. Decisions seem to be made to take effect approx two weeks later, so not a surprise the delay to end of July is announced two weeks before June 23rd.

BTW, BC still has 12 people to get out of the hospitals.

 

[MurrayM]

Bilateral agreement on Canada/USA border closure to nonessential travel extended to August 21:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/can...o-know-for-tuesday-november-26-2019-1.4702572

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well to late to travel north now. I wonder how much of an economic hit B.C. and WA will endure?

 

[MurrayM]

Well to late to travel north now. I wonder how much of an economic hit B.C. and WA will endure?

Here in BC we all pay (through federal taxes) for universal health care, so if you crunch the numbers, it probably looks like this:

a) loosen up the Covid-19 rules, allow international travel, have a massive increase in cases, have a huge burden put on the health care system and everything would get shut down anyways, probably for a longer length of time, or

b) tighten up the Covid-19 rules, limit international travel, slowly open up the economy when the numbers get low enough, and not have a huge demand on the health care system.

Plan 'b' makes waaaaay more sense, both in terms of opening up the economy and for how much this pandemic will cost tax payers financially in the long run.

 

[soin2la]

Well to late to travel north now. I wonder how much of an economic hit B.C. and WA will endure?

If you are inferring the loss of your tourist dollars will have a major negative impact on the BC economy, it won’t. Sure, every dollar lost will hurt, but those dollars are way down the list and locals will make up for a lot of it.

How much money did you leave in BC, compared to 6 Germans in a 30 foot Class A?

BC boat sales are up, local boating is up. Fuel dollars are redistributed, from Shearwater to the south coast. What North Island Marina drops, Discovery Harbour picks up.

Non resident moorage has not dropped significantly, yard work probably has.

The little guys like Mark in Shoal Bay will be injured, but the Dinghy Dock will do just fine.

On the water, the loss of the Victoria Clipper and its daily 200 to 500 passengers to Victoria and beyond, is a huge hit.

On land, the loss of Euros to BC in general, but Vancouver Island and the Rockies specifically, dwarfs ASDs fuel and booze spending. Telegraph Cove will be a big loser. So will the fly in Lodges and grizzly tours.

Can’t speak for Washington.

 

[Ken E.]

Well to late to travel north now. I wonder how much of an economic hit B.C. and WA will endure?

Just a small example announced yesterday is the Victoria Clipper, all runs cancelled until next year. This is the daily high-speed catamaran from Seattle to Victoria. Resorts, hotels, restaurants, suppliers and especially employees... all in harm's way with lots of hardship to go around.

 

[Ventana]

Well to late to travel north now. I wonder how much of an economic hit B.C. and WA will endure?

If you want to feel sorry for someone, I think parts of SE are going to be hit hard by the changes this summer.
As far as cruising boats, we are actually seeing more, not less, cruising boats here in Sitka this summer. Unfortunately, cruisers are, in general, cheap bastards so numbers being up or down will make little difference.
The fact that we have several thousand less people each day getting off of cruise ships and spending money, that is what is going to break a lot of the businesses here.

 

[soin2la]

Just a small example announced yesterday is the Victoria Clipper, all runs cancelled until next year.

Both the Blackball Coho and Victoria Clipper, suspended sailings back in March; Coho “until further notice” Clipper, month to month.

Clipper said end of April, then end of May, end of June, end of July and last week announced April 2021.

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/...4168334?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The Clipper is a big blow, especially since they were contemplating taking over the Anacortes to Sidney run with a high speed RORO.

Clipper Vacation’s parent, the FRS Group has deep pockets and if they survive the pandemic, Clipper will be back.

Spring 2021 is a long way away in COVID time, though.

 

[soin2la]

Unfortunately, cruisers are, in general, cheap bastards so numbers being up or down will make little difference.

That was my point in post 258, I just held back on saying it.

 

[rslifkin]

The economy in those areas will certainly suffer. But if things were open and COVID got bad there, that would cause some major economic pain as well. Hard to know which would be worse in the end, especially considering the difference in healthcare system load that was pointed out.

 

[SteveK]

That was my point in post 258, I just held back on saying it.

Don't hold back, tell them that our salmon stock will also flourish without the floating canaries.
oops, did i say that out loud.

 

[Frosty]

Who needs floating canaries anyway

 

[soin2la]

Who needs floating canaries anyway

Well there could be some old but active mines in area WG.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well we will see next year

 

[MurrayM]

Well we will see next year

Or the next.

Spanish flu's first wave was the smallest, the second wave was 6 times bigger than the first, and the third wave was about half the size of the second one.

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself!

 

[Andy G]

I am still trying to figure out what floating canaries are?

 

[soin2la]

Or the next.

Yes and if you saw Dr. Henry today, she was prepping us for the long haul; speaking "months" and "next year."
The other thing, is how we may adjust to the border being closed. As time goes on, the new normal just might be a more self reliant, new normal, Canada.