Choosing electronics...

[Bruce B]

I did speak to technicians about the electronics going on our boat.
Although normally I would be doing the installation myself, this time we are hiring the job out as we will be 3000 miles away when we take delivery.
It is one thing to notice a trend in an answer asked of a group, it is entirely another to hear some of heat I heard. To a person, I got the same answer from some very capable, highly respected people. When I say highly respected, I mean by my standards. People who I respect because of their capabilities. I spent a lot of years working with technicians and employing technicians. I feel pretty capable of making that determination...

I think it is overly simplistic to suggest that a tech "install a system and never see it again..." is that what you believe these people do, just install electronics?
For the vast majority of boaters, an electronics technician is the go to whenever there is a problem. Everything from questions about use to "it doesn't work" is routinely handled by these people, day in and day out... They know what companies are supporting a product and on what level. They know what works and they know what breaks.
If the installation is easy and that leads to a successful experience, well, what's wrong with that?

In the end, I want a system that will work well, last and be supported when it has a problem. I don't see that as conflicting with the good electronics installer/seller's goals. If you believe otherwise, I would suggest that you are using the wrong person for your electronics.
Bruce

 

[Gordon J]

Bruce,

I dont use people for my electronics. I install everything myself. I am only suggesting that very few electronics break, or dont work as intended. The plotters I just changed on my 14-year-old boat were still working fine, they were just old. These were large raymarine RL plotters. The radar still worked as does the autopilot. Boats 20 - 30 years old are sold everyday with the original electronics that are still working.

I am just saying that electronic technicians do nor deal with a statistically relevant number of issues to have a real knowledge about reliability.

But, i do agree that they can represent a data point. Many of the ETs i know Dont even own a boat, and have little, if any long term experience using a particular system.

Gordon

 

[Jeffrey S]

I just gave a couple of presentations about picking marine electronics for 2020 - how to decide now what to use for the 20's.

Major points:

- Manufacturers want you in their family. They'll often get you there through radar because radar isn't cross-family capable. If you select a radar, you've generally picked the family. For most people/couples, I don't suggest picking the family by radar - use the other criteria below.

- There are 4 big players - Garmin, Navico (Simrad, B&G, Lowrance), Raymarine, Furuno. Although there's no perfect reporting today, sales today (not installed base) has Garmin and Navico as the market leaders with 30+% of the market each.

- For the 20's, pick a family that has a clear iPad strategy and support (all 4 big players do). Make sure to evaluate their iPad products - they'll be incredibly important as every year marches on.

- Make sure you understand the internet and WiFi capabilities of each family. This is another area that will be incredibly important for firmware updates, chart updates, and data synchronization.

- There are 2 good ways to pick a family - 1) decide on the charts you like; 2) decide on the user-interface you like. Often, you should have your wife involved with user-interface decisions. It's a great reason to go to a boat show to actually try the same set of tasks on each family of devices (create a route, activate a MARPA target, turn on the radar, activate/deactivate the autopilot, get AIS details, etc).

- The chart component will likely be the most interesting in the next few years. Garmin has their own charts today and has a large cartography department/floor (I've been to it). Navico just purchased C-Map. Furuno licenses all charts through MapMedia with support for various government charts, C-Map, and Navionics. Raymarine supports C-Map and Navionics with some apparent downgraded NOAA chart support.


There's also the PC route possible with a variety of excellent PC navigation products. For that, you have to decide how you'll have radar support if you want to have radar. An interesting alternative is the Furuno DRS4W which is a wireless radar (once you connect it with DC power) and uses an iPad for the display.

I would expect the iPad to appear in the next couple of years with a variety of more advanced navigation products. Nobeltec/MaxSea Time Zero is a good example - it has routes, radar support, instrument integration, and a whole lot of next generation capabilities.

This is all a fast changing and very interesting market. It's a wonderful time to be involved with it.

 

[Gordon J]

now this makes sense

I just gave a couple of presentations about picking marine electronics for 2020 - how to decide now what to use for the 20's.

Major points:

- Manufacturers want you in their family. They'll often get you there through radar because radar isn't cross-family capable. If you select a radar, you've generally picked the family. For most people/couples, I don't suggest picking the family by radar - use the other criteria below.

- There are 4 big players - Garmin, Navico (Simrad, B&G, Lowrance), Raymarine, Furuno. Although there's no perfect reporting today, sales today (not installed base) has Garmin and Navico as the market leaders with 30+% of the market each.


- For the 20's, pick a family that has a clear iPad strategy and support (all 4 big players do). Make sure to evaluate their iPad products - they'll be incredibly important as every year marches on.

- Make sure you understand the internet and WiFi capabilities of each family. This is another area that will be incredibly important for firmware updates, chart updates, and data synchronization.

- There are 2 good ways to pick a family - 1) decide on the charts you like; 2) decide on the user-interface you like. Often, you should have your wife involved with user-interface decisions. It's a great reason to go to a boat show to actually try the same set of tasks on each family of devices (create a route, activate a MARPA target, turn on the radar, activate/deactivate the autopilot, get AIS details, etc).

- The chart component will likely be the most interesting in the next few years. Garmin has their own charts today and has a large cartography department/floor (I've been to it). Navico just purchased C-Map. Furuno licenses all charts through MapMedia with support for various government charts, C-Map, and Navionics. Raymarine supports C-Map and Navionics with some apparent downgraded NOAA chart support.


There's also the PC route possible with a variety of excellent PC navigation products. For that, you have to decide how you'll have radar support if you want to have radar. An interesting alternative is the Furuno DRS4W which is a wireless radar (once you connect it with DC power) and uses an iPad for the display.

I would expect the iPad to appear in the next couple of years with a variety of more advanced navigation products. Nobeltec/MaxSea Time Zero is a good example - it has routes, radar support, instrument integration, and a whole lot of next generation capabilities.

This is all a fast changing and very interesting market. It's a wonderful time to be involved with it.

Now this is a make-sense approach to buying electronics.

Gordon

 

[Simi 60]

Now this is a make-sense approach to buying electronics.

Gordon

Makes sense if you want to be locked into apple product.
Then you'll probable find your next apple device is not comparable with the nav gear without buying yet another apple cable.

At least droids use standard micro USB.
I charger 1 cable across all devices.

 

[Gordon J]

Simi 60,

I don't much care whether one likes apple or android. I also don't much care if they choose Ray Marine Garman or some other brand. I was merely applauding the criteria by which a selection was being made. I think this is far superior to listening to some technician who may not even have been on a boat other than to install the gear.

Apple and Garman work for me but is not necessarily every one's beer.

 

[twistedtree]

I just gave a couple of presentations about picking marine electronics for 2020 - how to decide now what to use for the 20's.

Major points:

- Manufacturers want you in their family. They'll often get you there through radar because radar isn't cross-family capable. If you select a radar, you've generally picked the family. For most people/couples, I don't suggest picking the family by radar - use the other criteria below.

- There are 4 big players - Garmin, Navico (Simrad, B&G, Lowrance), Raymarine, Furuno. Although there's no perfect reporting today, sales today (not installed base) has Garmin and Navico as the market leaders with 30+% of the market each.

- For the 20's, pick a family that has a clear iPad strategy and support (all 4 big players do). Make sure to evaluate their iPad products - they'll be incredibly important as every year marches on.

- Make sure you understand the internet and WiFi capabilities of each family. This is another area that will be incredibly important for firmware updates, chart updates, and data synchronization.

- There are 2 good ways to pick a family - 1) decide on the charts you like; 2) decide on the user-interface you like. Often, you should have your wife involved with user-interface decisions. It's a great reason to go to a boat show to actually try the same set of tasks on each family of devices (create a route, activate a MARPA target, turn on the radar, activate/deactivate the autopilot, get AIS details, etc).

- The chart component will likely be the most interesting in the next few years. Garmin has their own charts today and has a large cartography department/floor (I've been to it). Navico just purchased C-Map. Furuno licenses all charts through MapMedia with support for various government charts, C-Map, and Navionics. Raymarine supports C-Map and Navionics with some apparent downgraded NOAA chart support.


There's also the PC route possible with a variety of excellent PC navigation products. For that, you have to decide how you'll have radar support if you want to have radar. An interesting alternative is the Furuno DRS4W which is a wireless radar (once you connect it with DC power) and uses an iPad for the display.

I would expect the iPad to appear in the next couple of years with a variety of more advanced navigation products. Nobeltec/MaxSea Time Zero is a good example - it has routes, radar support, instrument integration, and a whole lot of next generation capabilities.

This is all a fast changing and very interesting market. It's a wonderful time to be involved with it.

I think that's good advice for people who boat like you do, which admittedly is a lot of people - perhaps even most. But for others the priorities and goals can be different.

I love the internet and would like to be connected all the time. I get twitchy when I'm not. But a lot of our cruising has us out of internet range, often for weeks at a time. To keep the twitching to a minimum, I use satellite internet just to send/receive email. The point is that I expressly do not want my navigation gear on the internet or wireless unless I have some explicit update to perform.

I also value reliability, and that translates into, among other things, tightly controlled updates on all nav equipment. This is another reason for them to be disconnected unless there is a specific task to perform.

I also have almost zero interest in using my ipad for navigation, again because of reliability. I can't sit in the cockpit and monitor fuel fill levels while tanking-up because the wifi connection is not robust enough. And I can't do similarly in the engine room because the wifi craps out as soon as I enter the room. And I have to reboot the wifi base station every few days because it gets all tangled up in it's own shorts. I have yet to meet a consumer wifi station or router that doesn't do the same. Now a lot of this is attributable to being on a bigger boat, but that's really my point - different situations beget different requirements and priorities. But in my case, I would place zero priority on a vendors iPad (or android or whatever) strategy when selecting products.

The result is that my priorities are nearly opposite what you have outlined. I'm not saying your priorities are wrong. They just aren't the only priorities. What's important is that each person be clear on what theirs are, and your list is great to get that thought process going.

Looking back at the priorities you listed, and to provide some contrast....

- I know vendors want me in their "family", but I would rather minimize vendor lock-in.

- I don't care about their ipad strategy - I have no plans to use it.

- I don't care about their wifi or internet or cloud strategy. I do want to be able to update charts easily, and would evaluate that. But I'm OK with transferring data via USB stick or SD card if that's what's required.

- Charts definitely matter with respect to the chart plotter, but in different ways to different people. I know lots of people who only care about bottom charts because they love to fish. I happen to care about world coverage. Neither is right or wrong, but they certainly are different.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. JS. NOW you're scaring me. I have no doubt the changes/advances you note are coming. In spite of the fact I can post on TF and get messages from my desk answering machine and even record a new message I'm afraid even now I'm so very far behind the electronic 8-ball that I'll be back to a sextant and and an Amoco road map for navigation purposes by 2020. Given the hourly (seems like) advances in navigational equipment and my early onset Dementia (not kidding) I'm going to be literally lost not too far in the future.
We currently have a very dated Garmin GPS/sonar on board and I only use the chart plotter and the sonar readings. The other, what appear to be dozens of, "features" are unused.
I suspect our Furuno radar is on it's last legs and I dread shopping for a new unit of any brand due to information overload. I hope our Wood Freeman auto pilot lasts as long as I do.
This is NOT a joke post. My concern is real.

 

[Jeffrey S]

I love the internet and would like to be connected all the time.

The presentation was about marine electronics in 2020 and beyond. An obvious capability that is coming is continually-connected high speed internet from anywhere.

I also value reliability, and that translates into, among other things, tightly controlled updates on all nav equipment. This is another reason for them to be disconnected unless there is a specific task to perform.

Apple proved that simple updates allow people to have more reliability. I find it funny that some people have PC's onboard and refuse to go online with them for various fears.

I can't sit in the cockpit and monitor fuel fill levels while tanking-up because the wifi connection is not robust enough.

That's a trivial problem to fix. Remember that my boat is steel and has 10 times the signal blocking that yours has. There are hundreds of devices designed to extend WiFi networks so you can have all the connection you'd want under your engine if desired.

I would place zero priority on a vendors iPad (or android or whatever) strategy when selecting products.

Again, my presentation was all about the upcoming 20's. The iPad is going to be a significant factor in all marine electronics in that era.

There's also a theme that the people buying/upgrading their electronics for the 20's aren't going to be the people who are 60 today. It'll be the people who are 40 today. Their internet expectations and openness will be significantly different from many of the people here. It doesn't make your feelings about it wrong. It just makes them a small percentage that frankly, doesn't matter for the industry.

 

[Simi 60]

But in my case, I would place zero priority on a vendors iPad (or android or whatever) strategy when selecting products.

The result is that my priorities are nearly opposite what you have outlined. I'm not saying your priorities are wrong. They just aren't the only priorities. What's important is that each person be clear on what theirs are, and your list is great to get that thought process going.

Looking back at the priorities you listed, and to provide some contrast....

- I know vendors want me in their "family", but I would rather minimize vendor lock-in.

- I don't care about their ipad strategy - I have no plans to use it.

- I don't care about their wifi or internet or cloud strategy. I do want to be able to update charts easily, and would evaluate that. But I'm OK with transferring data via USB stick or SD card if that's what's required.

- Charts definitely matter with respect to the chart plotter, but in different ways to different people. I know lots of people who only care about bottom charts because they love to fish. I happen to care about world coverage. Neither is right or wrong, but they certainly are different.

What he said ^^^

 

[Jeffrey S]

This is NOT a joke post. My concern is real.

Manufacturers are set up to help your exact situation. Just pick one manufacturer and stick with their products. It'll work out fine.

It's more important to really use the devices than to have the perfect setup!

 

[ranger58sb]

I would expect the iPad to appear in the next couple of years with a variety of more advanced navigation products. Nobeltec/MaxSea Time Zero is a good example - it has routes, radar support, instrument integration, and a whole lot of next generation capabilities.

I also have almost zero interest in using my ipad for navigation, again because of reliability.

- I don't care about their ipad strategy - I have no plans to use it.

FWIW, I haven't noticed any lack of reliability with nav apps on tablets. Our chartplotter is always primary, but the two tablets seem to work fine and make pretty good backups... for us.

I'd be more comfortable if venders were to have a TABLET strategy, not specifically an iPad (or other single company) strategy.

I suspect if MaxSea's tablet app was available in an Android-compatible version, I'd be all over that. Contact with MaxSea/France well before their iPad version intro'd, makes it sound like they ain't gonna get there from here. Too bad. But I'm not going to rush right out an buy a product that almost always costs $100 more than necessary just to run a useful nav app... even if it does mate up with my chartplotter and laptop software... given there are a bazillion other Android-compatible nav apps to choose from

-Chris

 

[Donsan]

- Manufacturers want you in their family. They'll often get you there through radar because radar isn't cross-family capable. If you select a radar, you've generally picked the family. For most people/couples, I don't suggest picking the family by radar - use the other criteria below.

Intentional or not, this is due to the failure of NMEA to adequately address the bandwidth demand issues on boats.

- For the 20's, pick a family that has a clear iPad strategy and support (all 4 big players do). Make sure to evaluate their iPad products - they'll be incredibly important as every year marches on.

This doesn't have to be limited to iPads. The real strategy and support should be to WiFi. It is just as easy to write an Android app to interface with marine products as it is to interface with an iPad.

- Make sure you understand the internet and WiFi capabilities of each family. This is another area that will be incredibly important for firmware updates, chart updates, and data synchronization.

Wifi is definitely important now but in the 20's, cellular 5G service could and should be a major game changer. If it gets anywhere close to the hype, most cruisers will forgetting WiFi.

I would expect the iPad to appear in the next couple of years with a variety of more advanced navigation products. Nobeltec/MaxSea Time Zero is a good example - it has routes, radar support, instrument integration, and a whole lot of next generation capabilities.

Why does it have to be limited to navigation? If there are radars broadcasting in Wifi, why can't other marine functions be sent from a NMEA gateway to Wifi? On last observation, it was $4K for a 12" Garmin MFD but about $1K for a cellular iPad 12.9 Pro. Someone who really wanted to shakeup the marines electronics industry would figure out a way to get all NMEA data into an IPad via WiFi and apps. In short, your iPad or your droid pad should be your MFD.

Your thinking about this is commendable and you obviously are closer than most of us but it would be nice if the 20's were a little more friendly to boaters pocket book than the the bottom line of the "Big 4".

Would also like to see a little innovation on the power bus on boats in 20's like plug in interfaces instead of wired.

 

[catalinajack]

Makes sense if you want to be locked into apple product.
Then you'll probable find your next apple device is not comparable with the nav gear without buying yet another apple cable.

At least droids use standard micro USB.
I charger 1 cable across all devices.

Here. Here. What is the fascination with over-priced Apple products?

 

[Simi 60]

I'd be more comfortable if venders were to have a TABLET strategy, not specifically an iPad (or other single company) strategy.

This.

I am happily running navionics as backup on a $125 Asus tablet but even if apple were comparable in price I wouldn't have one as I like to be in control of my devices, not the other way around.

 

[Simi 60]

Here. Here. What is the fascination with over-priced Apple products?

Perceived status and look, its shiny.

 

[kev_rm]

Intentional or not, this is due to the failure of NMEA to adequately address the bandwidth demand issues on boats.

So I am an outsider and somewhat a newbie to marine electronics.. but I know networks.

It is absolutely astounding today that there exists a niche wire protocol aka NMEA in an industry like this.

My bold prediction - Open standards, like TCP/IP and REST/Json (aka Signal K) will prevail. Not NMEA 10000. Garmin Furuno and the like will ultimately produce **nothing** but sensors. No displays, no networking gear, no human recognizable output of any kind - just sensors streaming data.

 

[angus99]

Perceived status and look, its shiny.

Maybe people buy them because they're innovative and work well. I've used both Apple and Windows for decades and had 1/100th of the problems with Apple that I've had with the others.

 

[psneeld]

Gotta love brand allegiance...for every happy A customer.....there's a happy B customer.

I have seen it both ways and have made my choice...the one where my brilliant IT son helps without question and doesn't scold me for having bought brand x.

 

[Ka_sea_ta]

My observation with marine electronics is: the guys that make their living with their boat use Furuno, Garmin has really neat stuff and but they go out of support much quicker then other brands, lowrance seems to be the prevalent brand on bass boats. Raymarine seems to do their marketing to boat builders. That said when it was time to replace my chart plotter I went with Garmin because I could use my Ipad to view it from the stateroom.

 

[Bruce B]

My observation with marine electronics is: the guys that make their living with their boat use Furuno, Garmin has really neat stuff and but they go out of support much quicker then other brands, lowrance seems to be the prevalent brand on bass boats. Raymarine seems to do their marketing to boat builders. That said when it was time to replace my chart plotter I went with Garmin because I could use my Ipad to view it from the stateroom.

Furuno has an app that allows you that activity on an iPad too, as does Raymarine. Not sure about Simrad...
Bruce

 

[twistedtree]

Furuno has an app that allows you that activity on an iPad too, as does Raymarine. Not sure about Simrad...
Bruce

They all do. It's become a standard feature.

 

[Jeffrey S]

Here. Here. What is the fascination with over-priced Apple products?

I wrote multiple Android products in the Google Play Store and multiple iOS products in the iTunes store. The reason the iPad wins is that the apps are better. There's no question and it's not even close especially for niche markets like boating.

Again, I'm in both camps. I probably have 30 friends who are developers for both camps. The ones who write for iOS make money. The ones who write for Android struggle. It's why companies like Garmin have an iOS version of their app but no Android version.

So argue all you want about Apple being over-priced. It probably is. And there are many more Android devices out there than iOS ones (about 50% more). But the fact is that iOS users buy apps and every developer out there knows it. The end result - more and better iOS apps.

 

[djones44]

I wrote multiple Android products in the Google Play Store and multiple iOS products in the iTunes store. The reason the iPad wins is that the apps are better. There's no question and it's not even close especially for niche markets like boating.

Again, I'm in both camps. I probably have 30 friends who are developers for both camps. The ones who write for iOS make money. The ones who write for Android struggle. It's why companies like Garmin have an iOS version of their app but no Android version.

So argue all you want about Apple being over-priced. It probably is. And there are many more Android devices out there than iOS ones (about 50% more). But the fact is that iOS users buy apps and every developer out there knows it. The end result - more and better iOS apps.

As an enclosure manufacturer (and boater) I chose to design an iPad enclosure because there is an "installed base" of hundreds of millions of them, most of uniform 9.7" size, and you can buy the older generation ones now for about $100US. So that was a no brainer.

My market is likely to be 90% kitchen counters, but the more interesting marine electronics industry today looks a lot like the ISP generation when I started in networks 30 years ago. Everybody could see what was coming.

And Android is certainly not out of it. My current enclosure also supports the coming Samsung S3 9.7" tab, widely regarded as the most powerful and beautiful tablet ever. The S3 is also a proper telephone - perhaps a ship's phone will have its place, just as house phones did a gen or two ago.

MFD's will retain their claim to the helm, but WiFi on a $100 iPad, or a tablet phone in a $60 casing will be the eager midshipmen to reckon with, and will make their own friends.

 

[tpbrady]

Having been in the telecom industry since teletype and HF voice, and dealing with marine electronics since my father put a marine HF in a 16 foot boat (saved us from beaching once), I want to give you my take on some of the comments made:

Ubiquitous broadband: Maybe by 2020 but its a steep technical and financial hill to climb for One Web and the others. For now the only ubiquitous service albeit very narrow band, is Iridium (InReach is a part) with others that get close (Inmarsat, Globalstar for example).

5G. It's been seriously misrepresented as I see it. In order to achieve the speeds and latency mentioned, they are talking higher and higher frequencies (there's a move to allocate 4-6 GHz satellite and microwave frequencies for shared use for 5G) but as you go higher in frequency the range drops quickly. 5G coming to a marina near you, probably not for a quite a few years if ever. 5G replacing Wifi is not likely . One you pay for and other is free. Free wins out every time.

Marine Electronics Networking: NMEA 2000 networking is pretty easy but the manufacturers hanging devices on the network don't necessarily play nice with each other. I probably run one of the stranger networks on a vessel, at least compared to most. I use Coastal Explorer for primary navigation. I have a Garmin 4212 MFD with radar and sonar, a Raymarine a67 MFD with chirp transducer, a Raymarine autopilot (Evo-1), and various other instruments, radios, etc. I have a NMEA 2000 network, NMEA 0183 network, a Sea Talk Ng network, a Sea Talk 1 network, Wifi and when my NEMO is installed a hardwired Ethernet. The good news is the USB portion I use for gateways will go away. Yes I would like to have a seamless network using a single protocol, connector, etc. I probably won't get there, but that not withstanding, it is the terminal equipment that gives me the most problem. If I stuck with a single marine electronics manufacturer what I experience wouldn't happen. However, now the radar is an island, the autopilot is an island, and the sonar is an island and the displays are islands. I can share some data between islands, but I can't change what an island does without going to the island. The worst thing is some islands interfere with other islands.

So the lesson is, don't mix manufacturers and systems unless you don't mind dealing with separate islands, and when fighting breaks out between islands you have to deal with it.

Tom

 

[Simi 60]

Maybe people buy them because they're innovative and work well. I've used both Apple and Windows for decades and had 1/100th of the problems with Apple that I've had with the others.

I'm guessing you are not very tech savy and that may be why you have issues.
I say that because android devices have nothing to do with windows.

FWIW I don't use windows on my PC anymore and have installed Linux mint and have been using that for several years with no issue.

Cost for Linux?
ZERO. Not a cent.

 

[Gordon J]

Probably makes no difference

In the end, I doubt it makes little difference which brand you buy. You will get used to what you buy and prefer that brand probably forever. I only have experience with Raymarine and Garmin. In my mind, almost no difference between them other than customer service.

I have had terrible experiences with Raymarine customer service. The problem is that I can never get anyone to answer the phone, or return my call. Garmin, on the other hand is Johnny on the Spot. I doubt I have waited more than a couple of minutes and my questions are answered immediately and correctly. A friend upgraded plotters and Radar last summer on his KK48. He chose Raymarine. He was constantly on hold and the answers he got were not always helpful.

I installed two Garmin 8212s (and GPS) in December, integrating them with Raymarine AIS and Raymarine Autopilot, Garmin Radar and depth, as well as two cameras. I called with a question about NMEA 183 wiring and received an accurate answer. My install took no longer than a day (other than some new plastic for cutouts).

My friend spent more than a week at the task, much of it waiting for customer service. BTW, this is not merely him reporting, but he is a dock-mate and I saw him as he waited and watched the entire experience.

About 10 years ago I was in Antigua with my sailboat and the Raymarine course computer failed, one-month before the warranty expired and just before Easter. I called using skype and waited and waited for customer service to answer. At first, the company wanted me to send my unit in for repair -- from Antigua. Because it was just a month shy of the warranty period the company didn't want to replace it. Finally, after many phone calls (and many hours on hold) it was replace with a new unit. (I was lucky there was a Raymarine Rep. on the island who confirmed the computer was toast. )

I never had another issue with the system. I suspect that a Garmin course computer could also go bad. The only difference is that I would have wasted less time on the phone.

Whether you like apple products, droid, or windows -- Just make sure that the system you buy is compatible with what ever flavor your choose.

Gordon

 

[sunchaser]

Reading this thread causes me to wonder how will the next owner ever figure out a vessel's individually crafted electronics suite. Easy, throw out the fluff and get back to the basics. Basics though best be a radar, charting system, depth sounder and AP that can be reconfigured to fit the new owner's schemes. For this reason I prefer the starting point to be Furuno.

 

[ranger58sb]

I wrote multiple Android products in the Google Play Store and multiple iOS products in the iTunes store. The reason the iPad wins is that the apps are better. There's no question and it's not even close especially for niche markets like boating.

Again, I'm in both camps. I probably have 30 friends who are developers for both camps. The ones who write for iOS make money. The ones who write for Android struggle. It's why companies like Garmin have an iOS version of their app but no Android version.

So argue all you want about Apple being over-priced. It probably is. And there are many more Android devices out there than iOS ones (about 50% more). But the fact is that iOS users buy apps and every developer out there knows it. The end result - more and better iOS apps.

I remember you saying similar, before.

I'm guessing the Android market is flooded with crap apps because everybody and his brother thinks he's a whiz-bang developer if he can write two consecutive lines of code that don't blow up. Don't have to work, just don't blow up. Sometimes takes a lot of wading through the Play store to find the ones worth paying for

Most of the apps I've gravitated toward are those that are written in both iOS and Android versions. Plan2Nav comes to mind as an example, but also several of the weather apps, etc.

-Chris

 

[angus99]

I'm guessing you are not very tech savy and that may be why you have issues.
I say that because android devices have nothing to do with windows.

FWIW I don't use windows on my PC anymore and have installed Linux mint and have been using that for several years with no issue.

Cost for Linux?
ZERO. Not a cent.

Yeah, I was responding to post 166, where you cited "Apple products" and I made a wrong assumption. I should have read back further for the full context. Most of the organizations I worked for had "issues" with Windows products and employed armies of tech supporters to keep them running.

As for iPads and iPhones, I do get a laugh when people call Apple products "over-priced" and relate their success to sheep following the cool-factor. To be sure, some of that exists, but when buyers are willing to pay a premium for what they perceive to be quality products, endless options (apps) and excellent service, that pretty much defines a market price. When Droids can offer all that, I'll consider them. If Apple mobile devices are over-priced, why haven't tech-savvy folks like you invented something that the masses will use as readily as iPads? Then you could undercut Apple and rule the tech world.