Cleats and chocks

[markpierce]

Where are*the cleats and chocks located on your boat accompanying dock lines, anchor-chain snubber, and dinghy, etc.?

On this Seahorse Marine boat, up at the bow are a hawse hole and chock on each side.* The hawse holes accommodate bow lines and snubber.* The chocks are for the after bow springs.* These lines would be tied to a bitt.

Midship there is a cleat on each side.* Not sure yet how those would be best used beyond hanging a fender.

Near the stern on each side is a cleat for the after quarter spring and forward quarter spring.* I don't like the idea of two lines on one cleat and am considering the addition of another cleat nearby on each side.

Am also considering adding a cleat on the stern bulwark for towing a dinghy and tieing on a stern line.

Comments?


-- Edited by markpierce on Friday 14th of January 2011 06:22:22 AM

 

[Phil Fill]

The mid ship cleat, spring line, is the first line you want cleat/secure as that is the line to maneuver/dock on. Make sure the mid ship cleat is strong as that will be the most used cleat to maneuver/docking and securing the boat.* That is the first line I put/throw*to shore.*I breath a lot better knowing the mid ship line is secure.*Do not clutter it up with bumbers.* *


*
A cleat in the center of the stern would not hurt but may not be necessary for towing a dink.* *I used the anchor bridle that is cleat to the two stern side cleats that keeps the dink centered behind the boat.*

 

[Moonstruck]

Old Stone wrote:

for those whose hawse pipes are fairly below the gunwhale (usually at the bows only), do you have an easy method to feed the line up through the pipe? I have to bend so far over to reach them (and threSad them through) that I have often thought that if I could solve this problem, I could be a millionaire! Any tricks out there?

To keep from damaging the finish on Moonstruck's teak toe rail, lines to the spring cleats feed through a fairlead just above the gunnel.* Since the spring lines can take a little while to setup,* I keep 2 spring lines on each side cleated, coiled, and hung in straps on the rail.* Just unsnap the holder, and the line is ready to throw or whatever.* This has proven to work for us.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I would think more the better. You don't need to use all in every docking situation. Think locks and raft ups- better to have options IMHO.

 

[healhustler]

Old Stone wrote:

for those whose hawse pipes are fairly below the gunwhale (usually at the bows only), do you have an easy method to feed the line up through the pipe? I have to bend so far over to reach them (and thread them through) that I have often thought that if I could solve this problem, I could be a millionaire! Any tricks out there?

*

That's a very good question that I've pondered myself. *My Manatee has stern hawse pipes in the veranda, and a veranda enclosure that one has to zip open to use them, so I am keeping them in just the manner that Moonstruck spoke about. *Then the idea came to me one night about how to avoid those risky, body contorting bends over the stern altogether. *"Let the wife do it".

*

 

[Phil Fill]

I mounted cleats on the out side as well as the Eagle rub rail is about*4 inches wide and the fender 1 to 3 ft wide.* Before we enter the maraina we have the bumper down and the lines set/coiled and ready.* Like I said before the mid ship line is the first and most used line.*

Let the wife do it.* Ya right I have read your posts, she sound like my wife who tells me to what to do.* Let the wife do it.* (-;

 

[koliver]

Carl:
I have hawse holes about a foot below the gunnel at the bows. I usually hang the line outside the gunnel and reach through the hole for the loop. My cleats are separate from the hawse liner, securely mounted on the deck.
Hustler: this wouldn't work for you without undoing your covers at the stern. Yours looks like a two person job, you on the inside, your wife on the outside.

I also have a pair of cleats externally mounted on the transom, (welded to the supports for the davits on each side) that are handy for the dinghy, for tying to low docks, etc. I considered putting a pop up cleat each side of the outer edge of the swimgrid, but settled on the stronger location on the davits.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I think hawse holes are a bit like fwd raked windows. Sort of a fad. They make a little boat look like more like a larger vessel. I like big strong cleats on the cap rail w SS anti-chafe strips just outboard and below. A cleat on each side on the bow, at least one cleat a-midships on each side, Cleats on the corners of the stern and one very strong cleat in the center of the stern. I like to tie a spring line first, the stern line next to the float 2nd (tight), the fwd spring line 3rd (tight), the bow line 4th (not tight). Then tie the center stern line rather tight to the float about 18" aft of the stern and remove the inbd stern line. The stern, where folks board is as close to the float as possible and as the boat rolls while being boarded or from a boat wake the mooring lines don't Get pulled hard. I don't like eyes used w chocks as the chafing is always in the same place. I don't much like chocks at all.

 

[Marin]

markpierce wrote:

Where are*the cleats and chocks located on your boat accompanying dock lines, anchor-chain snubber, and dinghy, etc.?

The hawse holes (is that the correct term?) on a GB are in the bulwarks and most or all of the cleats are mounted on the bulwarks beside them.* Our vintage of GB was built with a single large deck cleat forward between the two bow hawses, a bulwark mounted cleat next to the midship hawses, and a bulwark mounted cleat near the stern between the aft and transom corner hawses.

It didn't take us long to realize that we needed more cleats.* So we purchased three of the same kind of big bronze cleat used by GB and mounted one on the foredeck next to the anchor windlass mount, and one each in the corners of the aft deck diagonally between the corner hawses.* All are backed up with large stainless plates.

The photo shows the current arrangement at the bow.* The transverse cleat in front of the windlass mount is original to the boat.* We added the other one.* We use a V-bridle snubber so we can run each leg of the snubber to it's own cleat.

We often wish we had a couple of additional bulwark-mounted cleats amidships on the other side of the hawse from the factory cleats.* We have found that having two cleats in each aft corner is very useful.

It would be nice if GBs had Sampson posts like Mark's Coot does.* A properly mounted and braced Sampson post--- meaning one that ties into the boat's basic hull structure--- can be a very useful thing.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 14th of January 2011 01:33:53 PM

 

[Conrad]

I would definitely second the idea of having two midship cleats on each side for springlines; being able to adjust the bow and stern spring lines individually without tripping over each other is very helpful. I would also endeavour to place one of them so that they take a good breast line, i.e., pulling the breast line in brings the boat in evenly (sp?) or at least holds it evenly.I would also be careful about having the anchor line go through a hole (hawse?) on the bow, as *this can create challenges with launching or retrieving the anchor itself if the hole is not large enough. (I'm referring to a hole right at the bow, not the type that drop down and exit out the side of the hull.)

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** Are you referring to a bow hawse hole instead of an over gunwale anchor pulpit?* Disdvantages, other than being too small?

 

[Giggitoni]

Marin, we refer to our GB bow hawse holes as the "pigs nose".

Ray

 

[Marin]

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Are you referring to a bow hawse hole instead of an over gunwale anchor pulpit?* Disdvantages, other than being too small?

One disadvantage I can see to having a hawse in the stem of the boat as opposed to having a bow pulpit and rollers is that unless the bow is very sharply raked the hawse hole will put the rode and the deploying or incoming anchor very close to the stem of the boat which could result in cosmetic damage as the anchor comes up.*

Our vintage of GB has a fairly short pulpit and the bow is nearly plumb.* The anchor that was with the boat when we got it was a Danforth knock-off, a good design for the muddy anchorages in San Francisco Bay and the Sacramento River where the boat spent its whole life until we liberated it.* But the stem of our boat is marred up and down with chipped gelcoat as a result of the anchor rotating and the stock whacking into the stem.* The Bruce we replaced it with did not hit the stem even when it rotated and the Rocna we have now doesn't either (unless they are swaying in which case both of them can hit the bow.)*

One of these days when I get around to it the stem of our boat will get me up the learning curve of repairing gelcoat chips

And I would think if one uses an all-chain rode, deploying and retrieving the anchor through a hawse as opposed to over a roller would be a study in noise, friction, and wear.

*

 

[Nomad Willy]

Old Stone,Very very good point about the gunnel's strength. The Deck should be structurally a better place for stress. But I'd rather have cleats on the rail of a stout boat. Hawse holes are better than chocks and they serve the same purpose and they do look nice * * ...more class and more finished.
Marin,
Got much the same problem as you did on the bow. I've got a single sampson post. Don't like multiple lines on a single tie. Going to replace w 3 large galv cleats. Ctr cleat for anchor and outboard cleats for mooring lines. I'm rather anxious to get that ctr cleat on the stern. Wore out at least one mooring line from being jerked hard so often from rolling action of the boat. The ctr stern line will permit the boat to roll somewhat freely in her slip and may cause even more trouble w the fenders as the gunnel's will rise and fall more w the ctr stern mooring line.

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:I'm rather anxious to get that ctr cleat on the stern.

I think a strongly backed center cleat could be very useful.* Besides the advantage you describe it would also be good for towing, although if the load is heavy a towline secured to something more the center of the boat will give you more control of your own boat.

Our boat doesn't have a center hawse in the aft bulwark, but even if it did and had a cleat with it we couldn't use it since we carry a dinghy on the swimstep which would block it.* If we ever do have to tow a boat we'll have to drop the Livingston into the water and tow it, too, since a towline from either corner of our GB (or a bridle) would end up against the Livingston and the pressure would eventually break something.

Someday we hope to get a 9' Bullfrog and 15 hp motor.* When we do, we'll have to tow it since there is nowhere to carry it on board.* At that point we'll dispense with the Livingston to clear the airspace for the towing bridle.

*

 

[markpierce]

These responses have been very informative.

Can't have a hawse hole above deck unless one's got a bulwark.*Toe-rails can't do it.* ...* I was thinking the hawse holes would accommodate a rode snubber harness, not the anchor rode.* The rode itself would ride over the gunwale at the immediate bow.

Yeah, mid-hull side cleats are more functional than I first thought.* (Boats I've sailed on didn't have them.)* Makes sense a spring line from such a cleat would be the first line used to dock since pulling it won't tend to turn the boat like a line connected near the bow or stern.

I've had a protective sheet of stainless steel installed at the bow to protect it from anchor scrapes, icebergs, and "errant" docks.

-- Edited by markpierce on Friday 14th of January 2011 02:23:03 PM

 

[Marin]

Mark---

Unless your bow is incorporating a bow roller (the vertical plate at the bow seems to be on the centerline as opposed to being one side of a channel for a bow roller), running the rode over the gunwale may not be the best idea. Besides precluding the use of an all-chain rode should you decide to do that at some point, which will wipe out your protective paint job in a hurry and could lead to hull rust, I can see the rode (line or chain) sliding back down the hull to come up against the first vertical stanchion. This could conceivably put quite a strain on the stanchion base and weld.

Your bow has something of a rake to it, so if it was my boat I would at least want a roller and guide on the bow. You don't need a full-fledged pulpit. But I think a more substantial device similar to what's on the bow of our Arima fishing boat (see photos) would serve you a lot better than just letting the rode go over the gunwale.* A device like this will also keep your rode lined up with your windlass when you retrieve the anchor.

Even if you use a combination rode, you'll still probably have a length of chain attached to your anchor. So just pulling that ten or twenty feet of chain over the gunwale is going to jeopardize your protective paint.* While it doesn't show up in the photos, the roller "pulpit" on our Arima incorporates a pin that locks in place in front of the roller to keep the rode from jumping out of the roller.*

I would think the folks building your boat could work up a very nice bow roller arrangement for you, or perhaps there are off-the-shelf configurations that could be attached to the bow "platform" of your boat. But I'd think hard about that idea of just letting the rode go over the bulwark.

 

[markpierce]

Marin, the Coot comes standard with a bow anchor roller.* Thanks for watching out for me.

 

[Conrad]

Old Stone wrote:

Sorry Eric, got to strongly disagree with you on the "fad" comment. Don't like to strain gunnels with top applied cleasts, and find the hawse holes to be out of the way, clean, and very efficient. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ! I think you are likely to find them more on heavier boats than light ones.

As to breast lines, our marina has so much traffic going by, aside from weather conditions, that breast lines are not advised. Too much rolling at the docks = too much strain on the cleats, whether they on on the vessel, or the dock.

Reference to the bow hawse holes is perfectly said as "pigs nose". Never do the anchor lines go through them.

Hi there...I would agree with your comment re breast lines if you left them tied that way; I would suggest only using them as a temporary means of securing the boat momentarily while tying the rest of the mooring lines.*

*

 

[Conrad]

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Are you referring to a bow hawse hole instead of an over gunwale anchor pulpit?* Disdvantages, other than being too small?

Hi RTF...the attached photo shows the arrangement I was referring to. Because the roller is extended out beyond the "hole", when the anchor is deployed or retrieved it can hang up in the hole as it is a bit small. We're contemplating a Rocna or something similar which hopefully will improve things. We have no problems with the anchor hitting the hull.*Hmmm...that didn't work so well so I'll just try an attachment. Can't seem to get rid of the original non-image though.

*




-- Edited by Conrad on Friday 14th of January 2011 04:31:15 PM

 

[FF]

Hawse holes that include a cleat are great. They can usually handle multiple large lines .

Yes one has to be careful not to kick the horn with your leg.

THe biggest advantage is the short distance from the hole and cleat means there is very little room for the line to stretch.

Since most lines do not take wear against a hard surface well, the fact that for most loads (under 10% of breaking) there will not be movement at all, the boat is much safer at anchor or slop bound.

A hawse hole to carry the bow anchors has the sane advantage , PLUS you don't have to clean muck off the anchor after every overnight.

That single midship cleat on the rail, and a pair aft , that can be accesses directly would be great for slip and lock working.

 

[ARoss]

Like most MT's the hawse holes are well below the gunwale, and as you can see in my little avatar, I keep bow lines attached to avoid having to re-run the lines each time we tie up.

Word of painful experience: If possible, make sure the bow lines are shorter than the distance from the hawsehole to your props. Admiral once did a less than perfect tiedown of the line under way, and a brief rough sea took the line into the water. .... and the inevitable happened. Fortunately, no permanent damage.

 

[Woodsong]

Old Stone wrote:

Don't like to strain gunnels with top applied cleasts, and find the hawse holes to be out of the way, clean, and very efficient. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ! I think you are likely to find them more on heavier boats than light ones.

I have to agree with Old Stone's thoughts! *Our Monk is the first boat we've had with hawse holes with built in cleats....very nice to have clean decks to walk on without tripping on cleats. *

Our 36 has one such hawse/cleat at the foredeck, one amidships, and one aft just forward of the transom. *For us, since we will be going through locks regularly, cleat placement is important. *Our previous boat's "amidships" cleat was well forward such that if you tied off just on that cleat you would have the bow pushing into the lock wall (TN River locks have floating bollards that you tie off to with your amidships cleat). *Having a midships cleat also placed immediately outside the lower helm door also facilitates (hopefully!) being able to lock through single handed and makes it able to tie off the spring line quickly from the lower helm.
If I was to add one to our boat it would be great to have one aft, centered over the transom to facilitate towing a dingy, jetski, etc. but I can just as easily put together a harness for that and we don't plan on doing much towing.

*

 

[Marin]

We keep all our eight of our dock lines permanently attached to the boat (loop ends on the cleats), both port and starboard. Our bow lines are 30 feet long, our spring lines, two attached to each midships cleat, are 35 feet long, and our stern lines are 30 feet long. All of them except the bow lines can reach the props if they fall in the water, so we make sure they don't fall in the water. Any lines we are not using, and all the lines when we're running, are looped and locked to the rail so they are ready for immediate use but can't accidentally fall in the water.

-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 15th of January 2011 01:01:37 PM

 

[Marin]

Old Stone wrote:

I assume you have Lehmans, so maybe the slow rotation at the props saved you from a catastrophy.

The props attached to a Lehman are not turning slow enough to save anything from anything.* Go down and watch the shafts turning and they are spinning plenty fast.* The props will suck in lines as readily as any other drive.* As to what happens if a line gets wrapped on a prop and binds up tight enough to stop the shaft, the shock can be enough to break one or more or the Lehman's motor mounts if the coupler or something in the transmission doesn't break first.* I've read several accounts of this happening to Lehman owners.* Big buck repairs.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 15th of January 2011 01:29:49 PM

 

[ARoss]

I guess I was lucky. The wrap didn't stop the prop. There was such a short length of the line left to wrap, it just snagged around a few turns and then proceeded to "melt" itself around the propshaft. There was no vibration or any other signs of trouble, and I wasn't even aware of it until we were ready to pull into a marina. Once we saw the line was caught, we were able pull the unsnagged part free, but knew from the frayed end that something was likely still down there. I had diver go down and cut it off, and I still have the ring of melted poly as a souvenir and reminder.

Marin, at the time this happened, my Admiral/mate only had about a year of line-handling experience with a trawler, and as I recall she needed to run aft aft after pulling in the bowline and just forgot to secure it. She learns fast.* We both learned fast, I guess.

-- Edited by ARoss on Saturday 15th of January 2011 01:34:33 PM

 

[Marin]

Just curious--- why do you use polypropylene for a dock line?* By most people's way of thinking, that is about the worst kind of line to use as a dock line.* No stretch and rapid deterioration and weakening when exposed for long periods of time to UV.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 15th of January 2011 01:36:37 PM

 

[ARoss]

Not poly - I misspoke. Three strand nylon. It still melts!

 

[markpierce]

I prefer braided nylon.

 

[Carey]

markpierce wrote:

I prefer braided nylon.

I prefer double braided nylon myself, but finding myself ignorant of splicing techniques, am transitioning to three strand. I bought a 600' spool, and can now customize my lines to whatever length I choose. A captain friend told me long ago to make each specific line just long enough that it won't quite reach the prop. Next time I am hauled out, I will make a complete new set, and color code for each position.

*