Coast Guard and machine guns

[Edelweiss]

Apparently the Feds got a hell of a deal on Ribs and a big budget for gas, because everybody has got a couple of them it seems.

While lingcod fishing this Spring off Cattle Point, San Juan Island, we were visited by US Customs, the DEA and the Coast Guard all within two hours. None of them boarded us, but Customs and DEA both stopped and asked the usual questions, how long have you owned the boat, what are you fishing for, what's your home port, etc. The Coast Guard circled us, but didn't stop. I'm sure those three, 300 horse outboards on the ribs burn lots of fuel.

Your tax dollars at work I guess?

Larry B

 

[Rambler]

Apparently the Feds got a hell of a deal on Ribs and a big budget for gas, because everybody has got a couple of them it seems.

While lingcod fishing this Spring off Cattle Point, San Juan Island, we were visited by US Customs, the DEA and the Coast Guard all within two hours. None of them boarded us, but Customs and DEA both stopped and asked the usual questions, how long have you owned the boat, what are you fishing for, what's your home port, etc. The Coast Guard circled us, but didn't stop. I'm sure those three, 300 horse outboards on the ribs burn lots of fuel.

Your tax dollars at work I guess?

Larry B

It's to make the public "feel safe" even if the actual risk remains the same. They can change the color system from yellow to amber to goldenrod, or whatever, and don't you just feel safer?

Don't you feel safer having them run drills and ride around than just sitting dockside on ready alert?

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Don't you feel safer having them run drills and ride around than just sitting dockside on ready alert?

Actually it does make me feel safer-- not from "terrorism" but from bad boating stuff happening- I know they've done the drills and know their equipment and are going to do their darnedest to save lives. Someday that could be me they rescue.

 

[timjet]

Actually it does make me feel safer-- not from "terrorism" but from bad boating stuff happening- I know they've done the drills and know their equipment and are going to do their darnedest to save lives. Someday that could be me they rescue.

Very good point. And all that practice with rec boaters will make them sharp when the real thing happens.

 

[rwidman]

I'm thinking of mounting a gun on the bow of my boat. I wonder how that would play out.

 

[Moonstruck]

If you stick to the main channel in Norfolk...you are nowhere's near the security zone.

Well, not exactly. In the Elizabeth River you actually pass very close by Navy Ships. There are a lot of Coast Guard and little gray boats with big guns running around. Stray from the center of the channel, and they will turn in your direction. The first picture is from our slip at Ocean Marine in Portsmouth. The second from our slip at Waterside on the other side of the river.

 

[Rambler]

I'm thinking of mounting a gun on the bow of my boat. I wonder how that would play out.

Not too good I suspect.

Even if you upped the ante:

 

[Blue Heron]

They all have Rules of Engagement. I dont worry about them. They have a tough job to do.

 

[psneeld]

Well, not exactly. In the Elizabeth River you actually pass very close by Navy Ships. There are a lot of Coast Guard and little gray boats with big guns running around. Stray from the center of the channel, and they will turn in your direction. The first picture is from our slip at Ocean Marine in Portsmouth. The second from our slip at Waterside on the other side of the river.

Well...yes...sorta....

But then again, all I meant is if you are in the channel and look like you are using it...even in the narrower area and not exactly in yhre middle (I had to pass a lot of traffic)...they just come out on an intercept without engaging....but make a slight course alteration towards the shore/vessels and things would change quickly I would think. On my charts the restricted areas are clearly marked in majenta (darker purple)...ALL of the channel (inside the buoys) is OK unless I think you make a meanacing move or give some other susipicious indicator. Not to say you could be in good water and they want you further away....just I have never been nor have I ever seen another vessel truly hasseled in that area in or near the channels.

That's not to say some boaters may not get engaged....but in my travels through there in the last several years were uneventful for me and every other boater I saw crusin' along.

 

[Moonstruck]

For the many of you that are familiar with the Mega Dock at Charleston City Marina, I call Norfolk "The Original Mega Dock".

 

[marinetrader]

I live about 3 miles from the Kings Bay sub base and I see subs going and coming all the time. They do however, give a call out on the VHF channel 16 about 1 hour and again at 30 minutes before the sub is underway or inbound.

They have about 12 escort vessels ranging from 20 something footer inflatables to two boats over 100 feet long.

If you are on the water, they simply ask you to turn your bow away from the sub; a small inflatable usually stands by while the sub passes. I have never had anyone point a 50 caliber at us. I do know however that the last time I was that close, it ws not loaded.

 

[Moonstruck]

I have a friend whose son was the commander of the Kings Bay Base. I would e-mail Mark, and ask permission for passage by his base. He would send me back an official looking communication saying permission granted.

One time I went by and told him his security was lax. They didn't even know that I had passed. He sent back an e-mail that said the following:

"Would you like a picture of your smiling face with a red dot painted on it taken through one of my Marine sniper's scope?"

 

[Blue Heron]

We should all be mindful that this is an open source forum and the security posture of one of our national defense Strategic TRIAD assets ( particularly submarine forces) is of interest to the bad guys.
The numbers of escort vessels, size and status of weapons loaded or unloaded as they pertain to US Naval vessels is NOT something that should be blabbed on a general post. The Military treats such info as Official Use Only at a minimum and any security measures that are implemented to protect US National Interests and Military Personal are treated as Classified.

 

[Capn Chuck]

We should all be mindful that this is an open source forum and the security posture of one of our national defense Strategic TRIAD assets ( particularly submarine forces) is of interest to the bad guys.
The numbers of escort vessels, size and status of weapons loaded or unloaded as they pertain to US Naval vessels is NOT something that should be blabbed on a general post. The Military treats such info as Official Use Only at a minimum and any security measures that are implemented to protect US National Interests and Military Personal are treated as Classified.

That's a good point and when we encountered the escort and the sub we specifically ask if there were any problems with taking photographs. We were told by the Coast Guard escort that it was quite OK. If anyone needs to get this information all they need to do is stand on the shoreline as the entourage passes. Their weaponry, etc. can't be determined by watching the vessels or taking pictures. We have tons of photos of the Norfolk Docks and Security has never given us second look. I'm pretty sure the enemy has more sophisticated methods other than a boaters discussion board. Chuck

 

[Blue Heron]

Chuck, I am probably more springloaded to err on side of caution here due to my career in the Navy and of course having a brother in the submarine service.

 

[Capn Chuck]

Believe me I understand. Which is why we always ask first. Chuck

 

[CPseudonym]

My son is in USAF security forces. He said to take photos and make any observations you wish. Just do it from outside the security zone. Cross into the zone and the game changes quite rapidly. If photography is not allowed they will let you know.

Before the military moves anything in public the move and potential national security issues have been exceedingly well planned. Along with an appropriate safety margin.

 

[RickB]

Believe me I understand. Which is why we always ask first. Chuck

Most of the people who make that kind of statement have to ask in Urdu, Pashtu, or Arabic ... be very careful of what you are willing to give away.

 

[Rambler]

I'm pretty sure the enemy has more sophisticated methods other than a boaters discussion board.

I don't know..... for a while there I thought they were getting their plays straight from a Tom Clancy novel.

 

[psneeld]

Nothing posted by the passing trawler crew is of much use in the security sense. It's all public view stuff and if it's more than a few days old...it sure isn't a big deal for asset movement.

Anything inside the base is a different story. Or if we were posting hundreds of pictures or exact dates and times. Or relating a movement to some other info we might have like my brother in the Navy stationed at XXXX was suddenly called up...etc...etc.

People would have to be getting WAYYYYYYY more specific than what's been posted here...all a bad guy would have to do is buy a cheap trawler and hang around to get more than what's here....

And yes I was security officer at 2 major USCG Air Stations during my career that stood up for Terroristic threats during the first Gulf War, for general security issues during the Cold War and the War on Drugs. So I understand military asset movement and fence watching pretty well from the security standpoint....I hope the guys at the sub bases do too!!

 

[Moonstruck]

I don't know..... for a while there I thought they were getting their plays straight from a Tom Clancy novel.

I thought that Tom Clancy did thorough research until in "Hunt for Red October" he had a big boomer going in at Ocracoke Inlet. Many here know how ridiculous that would be. It was corrected in the move, and they took it in to Maine. I do enjoy his books.

 

[Blue Heron]

I'm not so much concerned with the assets coming and going as I am with the posting about escorts and security measures. A post was made with specifics about numbers of escorts, weapons readiness status and size of escorts and types. Further a timeline of comms with that asset was discussed. Those are the details that are important not the freaking carrier at the pier or the sub in transit.

 

[Moonstruck]

I'm not so much concerned with the assets coming and going as I am with the posting about escorts and security measures. A post was made with specifics about numbers of escorts, weapons readiness status and size of escorts and types. Further a timeline of comms with that asset was discussed. Those are the details that are important not the freaking carrier at the pier or the sub in transit.

That can all be picked up on satellite photos. I always figured the reason that attack sub was coming into Charleston after dark was to hide from satellites.

How would you guys like to take one of those monsters into Kings Bay by giving orders from the tower. For a boat that size it is tight and twisty indeed. One mistake and your career is ruined. You don't want to stick your nose in the mud.

 

[RickB]

How would you guys like to take one of those monsters into Kings Bay by giving orders from the tower. For a boat that size it is tight and twisty indeed. One mistake and your career is ruined. You don't want to stick your nose in the mud.

That is why they use civilian pilots who know the waters. Giving helm orders from the sail is no different than doing it from a bridge wing or standing anywhere else on the bridge.

 

[Moonstruck]

That is why they use civilian pilots who know the waters. Giving helm orders from the sail is no different than doing it from a bridge wing or standing anywhere else on the bridge.

That is all true, but piloting by giving orders is far different from hands on. I have a good friend who is a retired navy captain that has taught ship handling at the Academy. He told me to walk down to the seawall to look at the chunks of concrete knocked out by the soon to be officers getting confused on orders. He said that is one of the hardest things for the Midshipmen to learn. Most had never handled a boat at all.

 

[BruceK]

Just remembered,it`s a while back, me and my sailing yacht (a Folkboat) had a brush with the US Navy while USS Missouri was visiting and moored mid Sydney Harbour. We crossed an unmarked proximity boundary while taking a look,and got warned by loudhailer to keep off.
Many of you will know more; I understand Missouri was refitted and put back into service under President Reagan as a national pride exercise. A magnificent sight in the Harbour, even better was the press photo taken off the coast of firing her huge guns along one side, completely enveloping the side of the ship in flame, and smoke.
I vaguely recall Missouri was affectionately called "Mighty Mouse", anyone know?. BruceK

 

[Moonstruck]

Just remembered,it`s a while back, me and my sailing yacht (a Folkboat) had a brush with the US Navy while USS Missouri was visiting and moored mid Sydney Harbour. We crossed an unmarked proximity boundary while taking a look,and got warned by loudhailer to keep off.
Many of you will know more; I understand Missouri was refitted and put back into service under President Reagan as a national pride exercise. A magnificent sight in the Harbour, even better was the press photo taken off the coast of firing her huge guns along one side, completely enveloping the side of the ship in flame, and smoke.
I vaguely recall Missouri was affectionately called "Mighty Mouse", anyone know?. BruceK

Bruce, I think that was the "Mighty Mo'. I do not recall it being put back in service, but do recall the Iowa being put back in service. It was used off Lebanon. 18" guns that could hurl a shell about the weight of a Volkswagen about 20 miles.

You were right, Bruce. I just checked. The Missouri was reactivated in 1984.

 

[Marin]

I'm thinking of mounting a gun on the bow of my boat. I wonder how that would play out.

Well, I suppose if the firearm you mounted on your foredeck was legally purchased and legal to possess there's not much anyone could legally do about it. It wouldn't be concealed and if you kept it unloaded it would meet the "in transit" rules most states seem to have. If you enter Canadian waters you'll probably have to open the action as in our experience that is part of their "in transit" requirement for rifles and shotguns.

But while legal, I suspect security forces like the USCG, Navy, etc. would be REALLY interested in you if you happened to cruise by.

 

[Marin]

Bruce, I think that was the "Mighty Mo'. I do not recall it being put back in service, but do recall the Iowa being put back in service. It was used off Lebanon. 18" guns that could hurl a shell about the weight of a Volkswagen about 20 miles.

All four of the Iowa-class battleships were used after WWII and Korea. In the late 60s the New Jersey was used in Viet Nam. In the 1980s all four of them were extensivelyi upgraded and armed with missiles and the Missouri and Wisconsin were used during Gulf War I, firing missiles and 16-inch shells into Iraq. The Iowa was part of the Atlantic fleet and participated in joint exercises with European forces.

In 1989 some 50 crewmen were killed in a turret explosion on the Iowa.

All four battleships were decommissioned in the early 90s.

 

[BruceK]

Bruce, I think that was the "Mighty Mo'. I do not recall it being put back in service, but do recall the Iowa being put back in service. It was used off Lebanon. 18" guns that could hurl a shell about the weight of a Volkswagen about 20 miles.

You were right, Bruce. I just checked. The Missouri was reactivated in 1984.

Thanks for checking it. You are right, "Mighty Mo" was the nickname for Missouri. I think Missouri visited Sydney for a Navy centenary,the amazing sight on the Harbour of what was effectively a huge WW2 battleship, in pristine condition, attracted a lot of interest, the extraordinary photo of her guns firing was published in print and on TV news. I was unaware of the conflict role of Iowa class ships in world events at that time,thanks Marin for that too. BruceK