Concerned about purchasing older boat

[Orvil]

This is a good discussion. I'm in the beginning stages of education about appropriate boats for going around The Loop. I'm five years out from mandatory retirement.

We have every intention of selling everything and getting very liquid. We want to travel at out own discretion while we are both young enough to do it. The one thing we are certain about is not staying where we are right now.

I am in the fact finding phase. I can set a number of price and size ranges according to what I encounter in the market and how comfortable I need to be to live aboard.

I'm guessing that the ability to pay cash may open up additional prospects. I won't buy new. So, that leaves used.

The real question is do I buy older and put additional upgrade money into a fully depreciated sound boat to make it comfortable? Or, do we buy newer boat at a higher price with less to repair hoping that we can find something that is sound and comfortable, yet avoid taking too much of a bath when the time to abandon ship inevitably comes.

When you buy real estate, you make money when you buy by getting a good price, rather than when you sell. How do I lose less money on a boat?

Like the original poster said, I know I will have to sell some day. How do I make it easier on myself when I to sell?

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Speaking of buying an older boat (1982), anyone here have experience with Detroit Diesel 6-71's? Looking at a boat with these rated at 450hp (which I WOULD NEVER USE). But have heard that cruising at 8mph they would burn about 5 gal/hr.
Would appreciate any experience.
Thanks

 

[Comodave]

Speaking of buying an older boat (1982), anyone here have experience with Detroit Diesel 6-71's? Looking at a boat with these rated at 450hp (which I WOULD NEVER USE). But have heard that cruising at 8mph they would burn about 5 gal/hr.
Would appreciate any experience.
Thanks

I had a boat with 4-53s. The 450 hp from the 6-71 is pulling a lot of power out of them. If they have been run at that hp much, I would be worried about their longevity. My 6-53s burned about 6gph at 9 knots in a 46’ boat.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Many thanks - current owner has had the boat since 1994 and assures me he has run it at trawler speeds 95% of the time, plus occasional run ups to heat up the engines well. I also know a good friend of the owner that has traveled with him on and off for 20 yrs and he confirms the trawler speed. Gives me a bit of comfort.

 

[rgano]

I have looked through a lot of friends' trawlers over the years, often while lending a hand in some repair, and unless it was a pretty new boat, I seldom saw one I would trade for my 1972 all-wood Grand Banks 42 which I bought in 1986 for 89K and sold three years ago for 62K. Sure in 29 years I probably bought the thing twice over, and when it came time to sell, the brand's reputation and quality of the boat shone through, and it sold in two weeks.

 

[Mako]

Speaking of buying an older boat (1982), anyone here have experience with Detroit Diesel 6-71's? Looking at a boat with these rated at 450hp (which I WOULD NEVER USE). But have heard that cruising at 8mph they would burn about 5 gal/hr.
Would appreciate any experience.
Thanks

5 gph is about 85-90 hp. So each engine is running at about 45 hp??? That is idle speed and a horrible way to run a 6-71.

Plus those engines are hyper-charged at 450 hp and would have really low lifespans.

I can’t think of a better way to misuse and totally destroy the worlds greatest engine!

 

[FF]

"I can’t think of a better way to misuse and totally destroy the worlds greatest engine!"

You bet 3-71 would be a better cruising choice , but i geared ad propped to cruise 8K at 1200 RPM the 6-71 would do OK.

That 450 HP rating is a 1,000 hour hot rod job for a sports fish.

Necessary and affordable for that style of use , but not what most cruisers do.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Thanks FF - will definitely get engine surveys first if we proceed. And this boat is definitely not a hot rod sports fisher

 

[FF]

"will definitely get engine surveys first if we proceed."

Always a good idea but sadly fairly expensive to do a compression check on a Detroit.

On common 4 stroke engine the injectors are disconnected and pulled , the compression , and blow down test are quite simple.Many owners can do it.

Sadly removing the injectors on a DD means they have to be readjusted when installed.

Its called "running the rack" and is best performed by someone with DD experience.

Special tools a "pin" for that engine and injector set is required , only a few bucks (under $20.) but necessary .

"Da Book" will tell you which pin is required to set the timing.

 

[Mako]

FF-

If FC buys that boat, how difficult would it be to rip off the turbos and run as a naturally aspired engine - would the lower compression pistons be an issue? That and some smaller injectors might derate it down to a nice 160hp each, which would be a healthier rating and would last him the rest of his life.

Mine were 160's and I ran them at 1325 rpm continuously, burning 3-1/4 gph each for about 50 hp output. That loading is at the bottom of "continuous" but should be okay.

 

[FF]

Some of the DD have lower compression ratios to handle the turbos.

The low compression can caude harder cold starting.

 

[rgano]

I have a friend with two four cylinder Detroits in his trawler. Wakes everybody in the marina whenever he starts. The exhaust noise is too much underway as well. A fairly inappropriate engine for a cruising boat. Running for a foxhole to cower in from the DD aficionados.

 

[sunchaser]

My thoughts:

Get the newest best condition boat your budget will allow if you want to cruise and have fun. If your desires are a DIYer that sits in a yard then go that way. Selling or getting financing and insurance on a newer good condition boat is easier than for an older boat of similar size and brand.

But as oft mentioned, no boat is considered a good investment except for the brokers and Marine services industry. I’ve a broker friend who has sold the same +1M$ yacht 3 times. He is making money. It is a profitable business for many, except the owners. That is fine with us and the way it works.

 

[Group9]

Expect to do a lot more maintenance and work on an older boat (I know, I have a 45 year old one). You either need to be able to fix stuff yourself, or write big checks. I grew up on a farm, fixing stuff.

The other thing is time. If all you have are weekends, an old boat can leave you working seven days a week. As a retirement project, they are great, and a lot of fun. I love ours. But, I wouldn't have loved it in my forties, with a full time job.

 

[FF]

"The exhaust noise is too much underway as well."

Every engine is loud if un-muffled .

The problem is with the boat assembler , not the choice of engine.

 

[jjorgenson3]

Bought our well maintained and upgraded Alaskan 46 over 5 years ago and love her. You can’t buy this kind of enjoyment. Welcome aboard.

 

[Lostsailor13]

1962 Willard

Detroit not being a proper engine for a trawler,do you have any idea what you are saying,I have a 453n and love it,and noisy maybe a tad,but compared to some of these 400hp plus lobster boats with dry stacks,my Detroit is nothing,ask anyone with a detroit if it's a proper engine omg I still cant believe you said that

 

[Lostsailor13]

I have a friend with two four cylinder Detroits in his trawler. Wakes everybody in the marina whenever he starts. The exhaust noise is too much underway as well. A fairly inappropriate engine for a cruising boat. Running for a foxhole to cower in from the DD aficionados.

I have a Detroit 453n and think it's a great engine,and will outlast whatever you have in that bucket

 

[Lostsailor13]

I have a friend with two four cylinder Detroits in his trawler. Wakes everybody in the marina whenever he starts. The exhaust noise is too much underway as well. A fairly inappropriate engine for a cruising boat. Running for a foxhole to cower in from the DD aficionados.

I have a Detroit 453n and my slip is with all the commercial lobster boats with dry stacks
that start up at 3am and are much louder than my detroit with wet exhaust

 

[FF]

"I have a Detroit 453n and my slip is with all the commercial lobster boats with dry stacks
that start up at 3am and are much louder than my detroit with wet exhaust"

OF COURSE! Commercial boats are built to perform a task at the lowest possible cost.

A yacht to operate for pleasure is an entirely different construct.

Totally different requirements , different equipment and list of owner desirements.

A dry stack exhaust can be tamed , but it costs money a commercial could not justify.

A "Hospital Critical" muffler can bring the DD exhaust down to the loudness of a car.

But they cost over $1,000 , and are not pretty.




I am a big proponent of a zero round trip. Purchasing a boat and then selling it for what was paid for it.

That's for the boat , don't expect to be paid for most electric toys , you had to have.

In most cases a low priced boat that can do a job like running the Loop is the easiest to achieve.

A 25-30 ft I-O like a Bayliner , or its ilk will be about $5,000 to $10,000 , and when done with the run will be cleaner and look better than when bought. Lots of folks can pay cash at that amount , or have homes to secure a loan.

Many I-O can be stored or moved on a trailer , so a Snowbird winter just requires a vehicle with the right tow rating.

Good hunting,

 

[PM]

This thread is old, like almost three years old , but it really shows how things change.

30 year old boats are now in high demand, along with ten and twenty year old boats.

I never buy a boat, or a car for that matter, thinking of an exit strategy. My cars are junk when I am done with them, just plain worn out. If none of my kids want them they go on the corner with a $500 price tag. I write my boat off the day I purchase it. If there is any resale value come "exit" time, Great! If not, well they don't owe me anything.

pete

 

[Group9]

My personal financial policy is to avoid financing a depreciating asset if at all possible. We bought the biggest boat we could write a check for.

 

[rgano]

My personal financial policy is to avoid financing a depreciating asset if at all possible. We bought the biggest boat we could write a check for.

But even that fine vessel will depreciate as they pretty much all do. More money, more depreciation, no?

 

[smitty477]

But even that fine vessel will depreciate as they pretty much all do. More money, more depreciation, no?

Many of our past cars and boats either lost very little or were sold for more then when they were purchased.

 

[Johnboyrtw]

The return on investment is the satisfaction of being the Captain, feeling the sun and salt spray over the bow, watching the sunset to see the green flash, early morning with a cup of coffee on the flybridge, watching the dolphin under the bow, yelling fish on crossing the tongue of the ocean, being mesmerized by the bioluminescent wake of your boat at night, the sounds of the hull at night at anchorage, .....I could go on and on....the experiences on the water are the investment returns.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard, Jb.

 

[FlyWright]

The return on investment is the satisfaction of being the Captain, feeling the sun and salt spray over the bow, watching the sunset to see the green flash, early morning with a cup of coffee on the flybridge, watching the dolphin under the bow, yelling fish on crossing the tongue of the ocean, being mesmerized by the bioluminescent wake of your boat at night, the sounds of the hull at night at anchorage, .....I could go on and on....the experiences on the water are the investment returns.

Great first post for a 5 1/2 year lurker!! Welcome aboard, Bob!