Cost estimate for rebuilding vs. replacing engine

[maineman]

I'm looking at a 22 year old boat that's in pretty great shape. Except, the current Volvo TAMD14P 200HP has about 2000 hours on it but has never been maintained and seems to be in very rough shape. No survey or oil analysis yet.

Any guesses as to what it might cost to rebuild?

Or, because it would then be an old Volvo rebuilt with all of the headaches and costs of finding parts when needed in the future, does it make sense to replace now with a new engine? Any cost guesstimates?

Work to be done in Maine. Boat will travel from Maine to Newfoundland, so the engine needs to be very reliable.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[koliver]

I don't know what maintenance you expect to need in 2000 hours.
I have a pair of TAMD41s, They presently have ~4000 hours on them. Other than changing the zincs annually, the only maintenance aside from annual oil and filter changes and occasional fuel filter changes has been to send the injectors in for testing and maint at 1500 hrs and again on one at abt 3900 hrs.
On previous engines I rodded out the HEs, but these haven't needed that yet.
Those are excellent engines, well known to run many 1000s of hours without anything going wrong.

You say "rough shape". Does that mean they need a coat of paint? What tells you they are rough?

Clean fuel, clean air, clean Heat Exchangers and you should be good.

 

[tiltrider1]

It doesn’t make sense to look at that boat.

Replacing the engine will likely cost you $70,000. Calling a Volvo service shop like Costal Marine out of ‘Seattle will give you a better idea of a rebuild cost.

It never pencils out to buy a boat with bad engines. If rarely pencils out to buy the cheaper project boat over the expensive well maintained boat. When it does pencil out it is usually for some one who can do all their own work.

 

[maineman]

Thanks.
By rough shape, I meant I doubt that oil, filters, zincs were seldom changed. I get the sense that pretty much all maintenance was just ignored. Owner claims to have changed oil and filters annually and zincs when necessary. The oil is currently filthy and the zincs are eroded to next to nothing and the engine coughs black smoke. That's why I'm presuming a rebuild or a replacement is due soon. I don't know when the hours were put on the engine. It seems like mostly it just sat at dockside unused.

 

[BruceK]

If it sat at the dock unused it`s unsurprising maintenance was skipped. Question is,did long term irreversable harm result? If you like it otherwise,you could factor the uncertainties into an offer which could,for example, assume a major servicing, and reserve your rights post surveys.Which in this case should be both mechanical and general surveys. If you don`t like the survey, or cannot agree post survey on allowances for what is revealed, you can walk(assuming you ensured the sale agreement allows that). I believe cooling system parts for Volvos can be pricey, best check availability too. Keep in mind that koliver, posting above, has extensive positive experience of the engine

 

[O C Diver]

Dirty oil is to your benefit.

Clean oil offers minimal value as far as oil analysis. With dirty oil you will get the full spectrum of wear metals and any other problems. If it were me, I would run the engine up to temperature (take it out for an hour if the owner will let you), and sample the engine oil, transmission oil, antifreeze, generator oil and antifreeze also. You will have a much clearer picture of condition after that. It's also easier to negotiate price based on lab reports.

Blackstone is a good company for the tests, and the price is insignificant compared to surveys, etc.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Ted

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm looking at a 22 year old boat that's in pretty great shape. Except, the current Volvo TAMD14P 200HP has about 2000 hours on it but has never been maintained and seems to be in very rough shape. No survey or oil analysis yet.

Any guesses as to what it might cost to rebuild?

Dirty oil is to your benefit.

If it were me, I would run the engine up to temperature (take it out for an hour if the owner will let you), and sample the engine oil, transmission oil, antifreeze, generator oil and antifreeze also.

2000 hours isn't all that much. And there's a big difference between "rehab" (?) and "rebuild." Latter often including re-boring or re-sleeving cylinders.

I agree with Ted, take samples and see what the analysis says.

If the engine and gear are actually sound, just rehab all the hoses, replace the raw water pump, clean the heat exchanger and any fuel and/or oil coolers (and after-cooler if there is one), maybe test the injectors, adjust the valves, and then replace other bolt-ons as necessary. Probably do a couple quick successive oil and coolant changes on all that to flush out the block...

Much of that would be the baseline maintenance that you'd probably want to do with a new-to-you boat anyway...

-Chris

 

[ancora]

The missing factor in the equation: are you a DIYer or a checkwriter?

 

[JRO]

Assuming the engine runs… Look up it’s max rpm at full throttle and if it can get there you should be able to think about other things. Diesels make fresh oil look horribly black quickly so don’t let your impression of “dirty oil” wag your dog. If you can do a sea trial and it reaches the specified RPM with a clean bottom and light load… The engine is doing what it was built to do and it is properly propped. An oil analysis is nice to do but keep in mind that you are looking for catastrophic damage which normally would not allow the engine to perform per spec’s.

 

[ronobrien]

Thanks.
By rough shape, I meant I doubt that oil, filters, zincs were seldom changed. I get the sense that pretty much all maintenance was just ignored. Owner claims to have changed oil and filters annually and zincs when necessary. The oil is currently filthy and the zincs are eroded to next to nothing and the engine coughs black smoke. That's why I'm presuming a rebuild or a replacement is due soon. I don't know when the hours were put on the engine. It seems like mostly it just sat at dockside unused.

Black smoke is indicative of excess fuel. A compression test will tell cylinder condition, oil pressure will indicate main bearing wear (generally). If compression and oil pressure are good, look for oil/water cross contamination and check pump injectors for fuel delivery rate. This is a general diesel tech speaking nit familiar with those particular engines. It's just a big leap to needing engine rebuild/replace.

 

[Mobcat]

Black smoke can also be indicative of a Volvo, 2000hrs she’s in the first quart of her life.

 

[Captankirk]

2000 hours on a volvo is just about it's break in period. That engine should last at least 100,000 hours without any issues. It may look beat up, but what the outside looks like means nothing WRT the working parts. Have someone do an annual maintanance service to it, start it up and see what else needs to be done, which is probably going to be minimal.
That's the beauty of diesels. They last forever with minimal care. They just love to run!!

 

[Murungal]

At 2000 hrs the 200HP VP is hardly run in. With regular maintenance and sensible operation you can expect another 22 years of trouble free life.

Every 12 months change the oil, oil and air filter, fuel filters, raw water impeller and anodes. You can do all this yourself and get to know your engine.

Also flush the freshwater and desalt the raw water system each year.

The 200 hp VP had a reputation for always being a little smoky. Black smoke
would indicate incomplete diesel combustion. Get the injectors serviced. It only takes one lazy injector to reduce performance and generate black smoke.

Give the engine a good WOT run during a see trial. Note the maximum revs achieved and the water temperature. These engines are high revving and rated at 3600 rpm. You should be able to run them at 3200 all day. Get the heat up so that the carbon soot deposits are burnt off. If the engine has had a cruisy life at 2000 rpm then soot will build up and will even cake the turbo blades making the turbocharger less efficient. Turbo boost can easily be checked. (should be around 14psi at full load and WOT) Diesels like to work and should be run above 75% (say 2800 rpm +) often.

Another item to check is your wet exhaust. Every part of the exhaust should be at least the same diameter as the exhaust elbow (most likely 90mm in the case of the VP200). Restriction such as water lift mufflers and smaller diameter wet exhaust hose and outlet will reduce the efficiency of the turbo and cause black smoke and reduced engine performance.

Black engine oil is OK. A little bit of soot will always get past the rings and the oil picks that up and holds it in suspension.

Volvos are not like Lehmans or Detroits. Volvos are built to rev so when you are out let them do just that.

Murungal
1978 Albin 36
Twin VP 165 HP
Sydney Australia

 

[Murungal]

If you want a reliable engine in a boat, get a second engine. If you cannot fit it into your existing boat then get a bigger boat. Have a look at a recent blog by Capt Paul taking an Albin 43 from Florida to Milwaukee. Day 1 had to carry out repair on port engine while underway in a major port / shipping channel. He was able to continue because he had a starboard engine. With 1 engine he would have been dead in the water and a major hazard. Two smaller engines are better than 1 big one. That vessel was fitted with twin Volvo Penta TMD40B engines which ran faultlessly after that for 1000+ miles.

Recently I experienced a failure of the steering. I was able to keep going and return into my berth using the two engines to steer.

As one Trawler Forum member always says and I quote "you only need one engine, that is why I have 2 "

 

[Delta Riverat]

I've got a couple of TAMD 60B's, 43 years old with 1500 hours. No Problems. When I changed the oil it was black.

When I push the start button they both start faster than my car.

If it works, don't fix it.

 

[Skeetsdad]

I had a boat with a poorly maintained TAMD41A. It needed a rehab which was expensive. Oil cooler, all new seals in cooling system, new injectors, cleaned after cooler, new water pump etc. Parts were crazy expensive. Some parts were only available on secondary market. And the service network wasnt great. I never was able to get a "Volvo" mechanic to come to the boat. Once all was done it was a decent little motor. Just make sure the gear isnt a mechanical one. Mine had a MS4. They use a clutch cone. I would run from a volvo with the mechanical transmission.

 

[ronobrien]

An important feature to running WOT on occasion is to raise the cylinder pressures to maximum. This helps the rings seat against the cylinder walls. Improperly seated rings can cause cylinder wall glazing, improper compression, lower power, increased oil consumption and a couple other issues. A good WOT run for about 5 minutes each time out is actually good for the engine.