Crossing U.S. and Canadian Border PNW

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I've used Perceval Narrows a few times. It can be a little scary if you don't time it right.

 

[sunchaser]

1-See, there you go; you are agreeing with me now. Jackson Passage was what I was referring to in my other post about crossing over to Finlayson.

2-The weather over that area; Milbank, Mathieson and Finlayson was the same yesterday.

3-You are all now just trying to justify a possible errant itinerant.

4-Pure speculation on the last point.

Whew! OK, so where is this lost mariner now?

 

[koliver]

Whew! OK, so where is this lost mariner now?

Can't be sure, as those areas are out of normal VHF based AIS range. There was one pleasure boat that spend the night at the head of Kynoch Inlet. There are presently two boats anchored near the head of Kutze Inlet. None of the other targets in the whole area report as "pleasure boats".

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I believe if you have AIS, Traffic can pick you up on their system. Maybe not all the way into Kutze Inlet though.

 

[koliver]

I believe if you have AIS, Traffic can pick you up on their system. Maybe not all the way into Kutze Inlet though.

Traffic identifies those targets only as a "Satellite" target. Some are also said to be "out of range". The purple colour identifies them as "Pleasure boat".

 

[kthoennes]

I happened to drive across South Dakota for meetings the last couple days and kept passing an oddly large number of Ontario, Manitoba and BC license plates on Interstate 90 (no Alberta or Sask though). Wonder if they all filed travel plans. Gas and food, but I better call the police if I see them stopping anywhere else.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Traffic identifies those targets only as a "Satellite" target. Some are also said to be "out of range". The purple colour identifies them as "Pleasure boat".

Oh I agree. But VTS has AIS antennas from the entrance of Juan De Fuca to Prince Rupert.

 

[koliver]

Oh I agree. But VTS has AIS antennas from the entrance of Juan De Fuca to Prince Rupert.

I don't have access to what VTS can see. I am only reporting what I can see on Marinetraffic.com

If you have what VTS is seeing, please share.

 

[sunchaser]

During the past 20 years a fascinating company called Marine Exchange Alaska has been tracking all vessels in AK waters via satellite and AIS. Real time and historical data is available for interested parties. Other locales do the same with curious Canadian authorities quite possibly having access for certain Canadian waters.

For the comfort of those believing US pleasure boaters are infecting the hinter lands of the BC coast and not following a "float plan", some very high tech eyes may well be watching. And able to pull up yesterday's, last week and last year's positions.

Interestingly this sophisticated tracking technology became well funded shortly after 9/11 and the bad guys with bombs slipped from BC into WA. Don't leave your cell phone battery in place either, you're on candid camera.

 

[soin2la]

Yes, before we keel haul the guy some facts are required.
I guess Sointula hasn't gone that route.
Whew! OK, so where is this lost mariner now?
For the comfort of those believing US pleasure boaters are infecting the hinter lands of the BC coast.

Ok, I get it. You don’t like that I questioned why Nutmeg was where it was; a simple enough comment, I though, because other than an emergency or essential travel they seemed to be deviating for enjoyment purposes.

The same question was raised by north island locals, about recent extended US stays in Port Neville; not off course, but more than a rest up, in weather that had been unusually calm in that stretch.

What sticks in the craw of BC folks is that we are asked to restrict our movements; to stay local, until at least May 25. Northern Spy alluded to the fact he is asked to not visit local anchorages, Murray is urged to not go to Krynoch. koliver might be questioned for travelling from his home on Salt Spring Island to his residence in Vancouver. People from Port McNeill are dissuaded from ducking around the corner to Fury Cove or running up Moses Inlet.

Yet some US boats appear to be testing the limits of entitlement.

We on the coast are not ignorant of the fact there is technology that officials have at their disposal but that is not the point. Respect is.

 

[Northern Spy]

Ok, I get it. You don’t like that I questioned why Nutmeg was where it was; a simple enough comment, I though, because other than an emergency or essential travel they seemed to be deviating for enjoyment purposes.

The same question was raised by north island locals, about recent extended US stays in Port Neville; not off course, but more than a rest up, in weather that had been unusually calm in that stretch.

What sticks in the craw of BC folks is that we are asked to restrict our movements; to stay local, until at least May 25. Northern Spy alluded to the fact he is asked to not visit local anchorages, Murray is urged to not go to Krynoch. koliver might be questioned for travelling from his home on Salt Spring Island to his residence in Vancouver. People from Port McNeill are dissuaded from ducking around the corner to Fury Cove or running up Moses Inlet.

Yet some US boats appear to be testing the limits of entitlement.

We on the coast are not ignorant of the fact there is technology that officials have at their disposal but that is not the point. Respect is.

So why direct your angst on a few American boats that may be obeying the rules instead of directing it towards the the inconsistent, ineffectual, and mostly unenforceable rules that our provincial and federal governments create?

The fact that they are implementing the rules by health districts shows that this is merely a way to placate Vancouver Island residents, and very little thought or effort went into the creation of such rules.

Then they went further to connect the health districts of Fraser and VCH. So, now Vancouver, Surrey and Abbotsford can come to me, but I can't go to Comox/Courtenay or Nanaimo which we are umbilically connected.

Do you really think that a few American boats bobbing about the remote waterways of BC are a legitimate health risk?

I am literally more at risk by the inane policies that politicians throw out under their Emergency Orders to give the illusion that they can control a virus so they can gain votes and can stay in power.

One would think that travel by RVs and boats like ours would be one of the safest means as we are independant and self reliant. But yet that is exactly the travel that they are restricting.

Risk is a product of likelihood and consequence. I see little to no risk in boats transiting from Washington to Alaska (with permission, and the existing controls) from a pandemic perspective. Would only make a good plot in a zombie B movie.

 

[SteveK]

Travel by plane should be shut down until there are no more hot spots. Vancouver has received too many infected by plane, how can that happen when a negative test was already required.

 

[soin2la]

So why direct your angst on a few American boats that may be obeying the rules instead of directing it towards the the inconsistent, ineffectual, and mostly unenforceable rules that our provincial and federal governments create?

You seem to have lost track of my original comment which was:

Unless Seahorse has a good reason to have strayed off the direct route; that could be just the thing that affects you all.

You can go on about the politics of it if you like, but I won’t engage, as I was simply pointing out the optics and that it may impact future transiting boaters; if only in the way they are treated.

Whatever people make of the restrictions, believing them to be right or wrong, most folks are complying and pissed at those who aren’t locals and interlopers. Adding the foreign element tends to jack up that displeasure.

Did I mention the ill prepared Bellingham boater looking for a fuel dock in Alert Bay on Wednesday?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I don't have access to what VTS can see. I am only reporting what I can see on Marinetraffic.com

If you have what VTS is seeing, please share.

Well, I heard Traffic (VTS) calling other stations on VHF. I have also had Traffic call me directly on VTS. I would think they can see AIS (which you can see on MarineTraffic) VTS has antennas stretching from Juan De Fuca to Prince Rupert.

They also use a hugh big radar system.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Did I mention the ill prepared Bellingham boater looking for a fuel dock in Alert Bay on Wednesday?

That would be an interesting read. Gotta link? Good lesson for those going North.

Anyone that has cruised this area should know where the fuel stops are. For those going north, you need to know your fuel stops are and a contact name and number. List this on your float plan!!

 

[soin2la]

Well, I heard Traffic (VTS) calling other stations on VHF. I have also had Traffic call me directly on VTS. I would think they can see AIS (which you can see on MarineTraffic) VTS has antennas stretching from Juan De Fuca to Prince Rupert. They also use a hugh big radar system.

You are broadcasting on a different frequency than koliver.
Also, you seem to have a vast knowledge of VTS, the BC coast AIS network and radar system. Please share your knowledge with us. i.e. where are the BC AIS stations located?

Oh yes, why would VTS have found it necessary to call you?

 

[soin2la]

That would be an interesting read. Gotta link? Good lesson for those going North.

Anyone that has cruised this area should know where the fuel stops are. For those going north, you need to know your fuel stops are and a contact name and number.

There is no link to those verbal conversation, but you got my point about being prepared.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You are broadcasting on a different frequency than koliver.
Also, you seem to have a vast knowledge of VTS, the BC coast AIS network and radar system. Please share your knowledge with us. i.e. where are the BC AIS stations located?

Oh yes, why would VTS have found it necessary to call you?

All you have to do is read about it. Plus some experience.

On one occasion they called me to tell me that a ship which was around the corner. The other was when I entered the system voluntarily. That was an adventure. But won't do it again.

There is no link to those verbal conversation, but you got my point about being prepared.

I see.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

There is no link to those verbal conversation, but you got my point about being prepared.

This brings up a good point from SOIN2la. Know EXACTLY where you are. On your float plan you should list any place you plan to get fuel. You need to call ahead and make arrangements. List the Name, phone number and the person you talked too on your float Plan. At Port McNeill, North Island Marina for our fuel. It works like this:

Call the fuel dock to announce your arrival. Pull into the dock as directed WITH MASKS on. The staff will handle our lines. Hand you the fuel nozzle. Fuel, hand the nozzle back with your credit card. Once the transaction is completed the staff will turn you loose from the dock and out you go.

Another issue. Do you really need groceries? Pack for the trip to Ketchikan (K-Town) without stopping in Canada for groceries. True some spots will take your order and bring to the dock. But why inconvenience them because you didn't plan accordingly?

Remember this is a long 7-10 day slog. It isn't a pleasure cruise. That starts in K-Town.

 

[SteveK]

Seahorse must have sunk. It has been in the same spot for two days.

 

[koliver]

Seahorse must have sunk. It has been in the same spot for two days.

Are you using a Windows computer and Marinetraffic.com? I saw Seahorse stopped in a channel that was at the limit of the VHF based AIS (at least the icon would open with all of the AIS information) but showing the last contact was some time ago and getting longer ago as time passed. It remains stopped at that location. If you were following them, a new location was then shown, at the head of Kynoch Inlet, but without the usual identification. As there had been no other boats in the vicinity broadcasting an AIS signal, I presume this to be Seahorse. The next day it had moved from the head of Kynoch to the anchorage in Khutse. Presently, they are heading up Grenville Channel. If this is someone else, I apologise to Seahorse, and hope they are well, wehrever they may be.

 

[SteveK]

Are you using a Windows computer and Marinetraffic.com? I saw Seahorse stopped in a channel that was at the limit of the VHF based AIS (at least the icon would open with all of the AIS information) but showing the last contact was some time ago and getting longer ago as time passed. It remains stopped at that location. If you were following them, a new location was then shown, at the head of Kynoch Inlet, but without the usual identification. As there had been no other boats in the vicinity broadcasting an AIS signal, I presume this to be Seahorse. The next day it had moved from the head of Kynoch to the anchorage in Khutse. Presently, they are heading up Grenville Channel. If this is someone else, I apologise to Seahorse, and hope they are well, wehrever they may be.

Only following due to others making a deal out of it.

 

[Bacchus]

I happened to drive across South Dakota for meetings the last couple days and kept passing an oddly large number of Ontario, Manitoba and BC license plates on Interstate 90 (no Alberta or Sask though). Wonder if they all filed travel plans. Gas and food, but I better call the police if I see them stopping anywhere else.

Snow birders heading back home?
I've talked to a few in that situation.

 

[koliver]

Snow birders heading back home?
I've talked to a few in that situation.

Snowbird friends of ours got home from AZ just over 2 weeks ago. They drove, crossed at Peach Arch. No vehicular traffic, but lots of folks who flew to Seattle or Bellingham, then taxi to the border and picked up a car after crossing. This avoids the 3 days in a Q Hotel. Still had to have a negative test and 14 day Quarantine. There is no requirement for a "float plan" for those driving across the US heading for Canada.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

I happened to drive across South Dakota for meetings the last couple days and kept passing an oddly large number of Ontario, Manitoba and BC license plates on Interstate 90 (no Alberta or Sask though). Wonder if they all filed travel plans. Gas and food, but I better call the police if I see them stopping anywhere else.

I think they are in more danger than vice versa.

 

[kthoennes]

Well, I know my post may have sounded sarcastic and snarky, but every time I passed one of those cars I thought of this thread and how leaky and impractical and ultimately pointless the boating restrictions are. One of the Manitoba cars was parked at the "Dignity" (Indian Maiden) statue, a really impressive giant stainless steel sculpture overlooking the Missouri River that's quickly becoming a big tourist draw. They were taking tourist photos - recreational activity. Fine, we're the Sweden of the US, welcome to SD, but hundreds - thousands? - of snowbird cars can bounce around the US and then we do all this fretting and turning somersaults to figure out and follow CAN boating restrictions. Just makes no rational sense.

 

[firehoser75]

Sure it makes sense..... Your Country, your rules. Canadians don't have any say in your laws, rules, etc. Nor should they. In Canada, our Government makes the rules which can be quite different than yours.
If you don't like the other Country's rules, then stay home. That applies both ways.
However, personally I have found a reasonable number of the "rules" don't seem to make sense, but I admit, to come to that decision I am working with only some of the info that the "decisionmakers" have at their disposal.

 

[darkside]

This brings up a good point from SOIN2la. Know EXACTLY where you are. On your float plan you should list any place you plan to get fuel. You need to call ahead and make arrangements. List the Name, phone number and the person you talked too on your float Plan. At Port McNeill, North Island Marina for our fuel. It works like this:

Call the fuel dock to announce your arrival. Pull into the dock as directed WITH MASKS on. The staff will handle our lines. Hand you the fuel nozzle. Fuel, hand the nozzle back with your credit card. Once the transaction is completed the staff will turn you loose from the dock and out you go.

Another issue. Do you really need groceries? Pack for the trip to Ketchikan (K-Town) without stopping in Canada for groceries. True some spots will take your order and bring to the dock. But why inconvenience them because you didn't plan accordingly?

Remember this is a long 7-10 day slog. It isn't a pleasure cruise. That starts in K-Town.

There is some wonderful cruising between Ketchikan and the Broughtons in normal times. It's 98% protected and I wouldn't call it a slog at all

 

[soin2la]

There is some wonderful cruising between Ketchikan and the Broughtons in normal times. It's 98% protected and I wouldn't call it a slog at allView attachment 116957

Yes, certainly not a slog and we locals consider it to be wonderful cruising any time. The border being closed does not eliminate the wonder. Some would say it enhances it.

I wouldn't say 98% protected though and I say that because there are just enough new to boating fools, who would take your words and picture as a it being a cruise on the lake.

Queen Charlotte Sound, Millbank, Chatham/Dixon, account for more than a third unprotected and are not always as glassy as your thumbnail indicates. Add the outflows of each and every inlet and unprotected water hits closer to 50%.

Back to the topic of stray US boaters though, I chuckle at those who are ok with breaking the laws "just a little."

By the same skewed, agenda driven logic then, it would be ok to attach a 50' boat to a 40' limit buoy in a marine park, drive in BC with a 0.09 BAC, or allow five strangers to stand just inside your door, with no masks on.

 

[OldDan1943]

If one does not go ashore, I see no problem with boats of no more than 4 people transitioning Canadian waters and using buoy.
Of course subject to on the water inspection and health checks.
If the fuel dock offers food delivery, use it if necessary.
Restocking beer and booze does qualify as food IMO.
If you cannot initially stock food and TP for 2 weeks, don’t leave your home dock. If you NEED to take on fuel, take advantage of their facilities provided you remain at the fuel dock or on a buoy or at anchor. Just about everyone has a tender. You can ferry stores from the fuel dock to the boat. If you have a dog, I suspect dock personnel will gladly walk you dog for a tip.