Da(m)nforth anchor!

[78puget-trawler]

That spot you were anchored in didn't look very protected. I know that was an uncomfortable day. I hate sitting on anchor and bouncing around like that all day. A few hours is my max. I've been there and I have a Danforth. They stick well.

Your new one is better suited for your boat in my opinion.

Yes it is exposed but having been there many times in the summer, never had any kind of wind blow in like that day, not fun. With my smaller boats I usually set closer to shore where its a little more protected, but with this boat and a nice day, just dropped it where there was lots of room and not too close to other boats. Oh well.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Poor Lofrans indeed! I think it is poor practice to break out the anchor that way and it said so right in the manual for the Lofrans I bought for my last boat.

I use Mantus anchors which I love but which are the very dickens to break out. (If an anchor is going to have a flaw, that should be the one.) I keep a chain hook on a short line handy. SOP is to pull the anchor to straight up and down, put this line on, and back off the chain a few inches. In calmer conditions and open anchorages, I often do this before breakfast. I then break the anchor out under power. With the Mantus, I usually see the bow go down a few inches and then bob back up when the anchor breaks out. Bump the chain in a few inches, remove the chain hook, and retrieve. Doing it this way every time saves strain on the windlass and keeps it a smooth and practiced operation.

thank you.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Eric, the 20-H I got yesterday is exactly like yours, even has the little white rubber ends. I am keeping the "monsta" for a spare storm anchor. It has the same fluke style as the 20H with the welded flange instead of the bends. I note also there is two other boats on C dock with that same monsta anchor. I think the 20-H will work out well.

Hey Scott,
How-bout some followup on your 20-H Danforth. Still using my 13lb Dan (presumably an “S” series) especially when I have trouble w my experimentals. This Danforth has a forged shank but bent plate flukes. Or maybe you’d call that sheetmetal.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Hi Eric, been using it with great success. I am a big fan of the design. My late dad who towed logs and barges all over Puget Sound and Alaska always said that for most areas in PS at least it was the best anchor barring rocky bottom. Mine sets easy, holds like iron and picks easy. All chain rode by the way and that helps too.

 

[Nomad Willy]

78,
I know there are a lot of guys here that use and think they are a great design. Art for one. But many others.
Most don’t post about it as they figure if they say anything the “out w the old in w the new” crowd will tell them they need to buy a new anchor. Even if it’s true discussion leads to learning.
Yes the little white rubber things on the end of the stock ends I’m sure came w the anchor when new.

 

[AKDoug]

The Hi Tensile anchors are forged, the flukes are much stiffer, sharper, and harder. I have never seen one bent but I am sure it's happened. The edges on the flukes are beveled from both sides towards the edge, the shaft has shaped corners on the edges rather than just being rectangular stock. The quality difference is immediately apparent to the eye if you examine the anchor...

 

[FF]

AS a Danforth enthusiast for 6 decades , the H series is preferable to the S series.

Yes, when they dig in they can bring up a lot of mud , so a minimum windlass might get taxed.

 

[jleonard]

I also use a Danforth as we type I have a 35 HT in the mud at Sag Harbor with 100 ft of chain in 10 feet of water.
Wife and figured this weekend that in our 30 years of boating we anchored approx 500 times many times rafted with other boats.
We only dragged 2 times and BOTH times were with a Delta.

 

[foggysail]

Just picked up a near new Danforth Hi Tensile H20 anchor at Marine Supply in Anacortes for about half the new price. Said to be good for a 50' boat in 20 knot winds with rope and chain rode. Should be a good fit for this boat.

Sure, the old Danforths can hold under the right conditions. And just maybe the claim of your H20 holding a 50' anything.....well, who knows. I do know I want BIG anchors on my boat so I can hopefully sleep at night.

The closest thing I have onboard to a Danforth is my still new in the box Fortress FX35 which is a huge anchor. In general, the old Danforths are IMHO under rated.

 

[jleonard]

Eric, the 20-H I got yesterday is exactly like yours, even has the little white rubber ends. I am keeping the "monsta" for a spare storm anchor. It has the same fluke style as the 20H with the welded flange instead of the bends. I note also there is two other boats on C dock with that same monsta anchor. I think the 20-H will work out well.

I had a 20 S on my 34 Mainship for 14 years. Never dragged, rode out many thunderstorms. I still have it but not on my current 40 Albin.
(Currently it's holding down a cement walkway in Florida lol.)
It will serve you well.

 

[psneeld]

In my experience and the vast majority I have crossed paths in boating in anchor discussions....danfoths are great for holding, not so great at catching..the hi-tensile ones are better...

.....but I still won't trust one as my go to, all around, especially emergencies.... anchor..

Thats for less than say 35 pounds or so, as they go up in size, like many anchors....catching gets getter.

 

[Lepke]

I've used danforth anchors on ships and boats. My storm anchor is a 6' danforth. I've never had one fail to hold. They always seem to catch something. The navy added a danforth to most new ships about 1960. They still carry the old standard mud anchors, but when I've seen them anchor, they use the danforth. People I see having holding problems usually have too small an anchor by weight. Sometimes their rode is too short.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Lepke,
What is a 6’ Danforth? 6’ shank or fluke?
Hard for me to look at the Navy anchor as a “mud anchor”. IMO a mud anchor should have a very large fluke area to cope w a very soft seafloor. The Navy anchor has small flukes.

 

[HopCar]

As you found out, Danforth can hold very well. I think you need to either straighten the flukes or better still replace it. They just don’t hold nearly as well if the flukes aren’t parallel. A lot of people straighten them but it weakens them. They bend a lot easier next time.

 

[Group9]

I put out a 22 pound danforth in a mud bottom and it held my Cape Dory 25D (and another boat that dragged in to me) in 125 mph winds in Hurricane Elena in 1986. We tried to break that Danforth free for two days after it was over. It’s still there!

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

I love my tried and true Danforth--never had an issue with it in Florida gulf coast waters.

 

[FF]

I like a pound of H Danforth for every foot of boat for overnight.

Our 50 ft lobster boat uses a 60H , and we sleep well, depending mostly on who is anchored up wind.
Stern anchor is 12H or 20H .

The 33 ft 90/90 uses a 35H .

For waiting for a bridge or lock the 12H does well with 3/8 line .

 

[psneeld]

I love my tried and true Danforth--never had an issue with it in Florida gulf coast waters.

But for every boater I talk to that swears by them, there are at least 5 that curse them and the rest out of 10 never really anchor and carry whatever came with the boat.

 

[Sabre602]

But for every boater I talk to that swears by them, there are at least 5 that curse them and the rest out of 10 never really anchor and carry whatever came with the boat.

One of the challenges, I think, is that "Danforth" has become like "Kleenex" or "Xerox."

Are those folks cursing a forged, hi-tensile Danforth or some POS stamping that looks similar?

 

[Nomad Willy]

psneeld,
You’re over stating it for some reason but you’re right there are some that don’t like’um .. you and Mark come to mind.
I’m not a huge fan of them but I have at least three.

Anson,
That’s prolly it. Most Danforths aren’t Danforth anchors. And the unbelievably cheap copies are everywhere. Aratio of copies to Danforths is well past 5-1 IMO.

 

[psneeld]

Not sure I am overstating it and what actual statistic can place doubt on my experiences? You can disagree, but not flat out state I am exaggerating.

Between thousands of students in my boating safety and captains classes reporting their dissatisfaction , living aboard full time talking to boaters day after day, coming upon hundreds of broken down boaters drifting on their danforths or describing the trouble getting it to stick....I think I have a pretty solid feel for it. And yes I am factoring in all the lousy anchorers.

I did say the Danforth HT has a slightly better rep, but in smaller sizes it still fails to hook for the same reasons. Not sure some of the knockoffs aren't just as good as regular danforths....and just as bad at the same time. Some may be better...who knows that for sure?

For those with good experiences...can't argue...but I can't in good faith recommend one as a primary anchor that I would drop first in an emergency.

 

[AKDoug]

I think it comes down to what type of bottom you are anchoring in, if it's consistently mud or sand they are fantastic. If it's mixed and you factor in grass, kelp, rocks and such, they are not so great. The HT's break through kelp and grass better, but are still pretty useless in rocky bottoms.

That's why I didn't consider one for my primary anchor on the new vessel even though I own a couple. I have had much better luck with my "name brand" new generation anchor with mixed bottoms, adding more chain hasn't hurt any I am sure...

 

[Nomad Willy]

As a primary they work fine w bottoms that are mostly soft. Then on the rare occasion they don’t hook up just switch to the backup. I have three anchors for general use. The primary varies. The backup is a H12 S (forged shank and plate or sheetmetal fluke flanged one way only) and my storm is an 18lb XYZ.
Like you say Doug. The biggest variable in anchoring .. the bottom

But most bottoms are mud. Florida has quite a bit of sand I hear. So it’s really an odd bottom that would give a Danforth trouble. And since they hold so well why not take advantage of that and go for the backup when necessary. Their lightweight is great for deploying and retrieving.

Around here (PNW) most all bottoms are mud. But good Danforths are only available used. However the Fortress is very available new. One can anchor a big boat by hand w those babies. I see both frequently on CL.
However if 1/4 of your typical bottoms are weed rock or whatever the Dan dosn’t like It surely shouldn’t be a primary.

 

[psneeld]

Soft like mud?

Perfect place to jam a clam shell in between a fluke and shaft...or impale it on a fluke tip....nope.... one of the worst bottoms in many East coast waters. No clams in West Coast mud? Had shells and rocks in Kodiak mud bottoms...no guaranteed Danforth hookup there.

Or if there are oyster shells around...another nemisis.....or heaven forbid a clean bottowm without seaweed clumps or grass clumps...or sand hard enough they just slide across....

Danforth have moving owrys to fail...and they often do.... Many here swear by KISS......me too when it comes to moving parts on an anchor.

Yep....had them or have watched them fail in so many ways......I will only use them when I have the luxury of knowing I can set and reset them multiple times.

 

[foggysail]

Between thousands of students in my boating safety and captains classes reporting their dissatisfaction , living aboard full time talking to boaters day after day, coming upon hundreds of broken down boaters drifting on their danforths or describing the trouble getting it to stick....I think I have a pretty solid feel for it. And yes I am factoring in all the lousy anchorers.

I did say the Danforth HT has a slightly better rep, but in smaller sizes it still fails to hook for the same reasons. Not sure some of the knockoffs aren't just as good as regular danforths....and just as bad at the same time. Some may be better...who knows that for sure?

For those with good experiences...can't argue...but I can't in good faith recommend one as a primary anchor that I would drop first in an emergency.

Is it the anchor's design that you fault for questionable performance? Do you have experience with the Fortress which pretty much resembles the Danforth. I ask not only because I own a Fortress (still new in the box) but of all the favorable reports I have read over the years. And now there are two versions of the Fortress with the newer version being much less expensive.

 

[caltexflanc]

One more time, anchoring is 80% technique. Newbies and casual boaters taking a class will have dragged all sorts of anchors given the opportunity, but Danforths being the most common, they win the "drag race" by default.

Back to the OP, never drag the boat to the anchor with the windlass, and never ever try to break the anchor with the windlass. The engine(s) are for the former and snubbers and cleats are for the latter.

 

[psneeld]

Had lots of experienced boaters in both the safety classes and captain licensing classes. Many with as much or more experience than many here.

Hard to believe that I am smart enough to weed out unreliabe info....but I do know the difference.

My point is.... my cross section of reports was/is as good as any other source of anchor opinions and that iit wasn't just my own opinion of danforths. It iis an overwhelming majority of experienced boaters who graduated from them and CQRs and Bruce's and just about every other type to the Nexgen models.

The failures of Danforths I am talking about are generally NOT technique, but failre of the flukes to attain the correct position or impaling something and failing to dig in.

 

[psneeld]

Is it the anchor's design that you fault for questionable performance? Do you have experience with the Fortress which pretty much resembles the Danforth. I ask not only because I own a Fortress (still new in the box) but of all the favorable reports I have read over the years. And now there are two versions of the Fortress with the newer version being much less expensive.

Yes, plenty reports of Fortresses jamming flat so the flukes can't bite or something jamming on the tips and it not having enough weight to punch through.

The small Fortresses in a strong current have been known to flutter down as they are so light....and they can foul the rode. Sure that might be overcome with the right combo of chain or no chain....but an issue till rectified.

I think as Fortresses and Danforths become large enough, a lot of these fouling issues may be overcome by sheer scale of the anchor. But we are usually talking danforths much larger than used on manh if the boats many of us have.

 

[Group9]

Had lots of experienced boaters in both the safety classes and captain licensing classes. Many with as much or more experience than many here.

Hard to believe that I am smart enough to weed out unreliabe info....but I do know the difference.

My point is.... my cross section of reports was/is as good as any other source of anchor opinions and that iit wasn't just my own opinion of danforths. It iis an overwhelming majority of experienced boaters who graduated from them and CQRs and Bruce's and just about every other type to the Nexgen models.

The failures of Danforths I am talking about are generally NOT technique, but failre of the flukes to attain the correct position or impaling something and failing to dig in.

I have no idea what anchor works best in typical New Jersey bottoms (or even what the bottoms are there). But, Danforth style anchors work pretty well in the mud/sand bottons we have around here, and that’s probably why you see so many of them here, on recreational and commercial vessels.

 

[psneeld]

I have experience boating from Mobile, Al to NJ and Kodiak, Ak. Anchored hundreds of nights between NJ and the Keys in the last 6 years.

Sure there's lots if Danforths around, lots of inexperience boaters who barely lunch hook every once and awhile who typically have them. But I know there are rock solid captains and cruisers who swear by and regularly use them. I just happen to have been burned by and seen and heard from too many others to trust my boat to one.

I usually caught quite a few as the drug into the surf or mud flats because their danforths were fouled...that's not including the ones who had no clue how to anchor or had 1 to 1 scope out.

Guess what anchor they had the next season?

Within 2 miles of my home marina there are at least 5 different bottom types that are similar all up and down the coast. Including hard sand, soft sand, and a variation including more and more mud till it's all mud.