Dear Diary - Weebles will splash soon.

[mvweebles]

Peter, we are looking at a NL M673L3 6kw genny for times at anchor and when both AC's are needed, but what you are saying is having us re-think that decision. Unless NL provides you with a diagram of how each wire needs to "tucked" so as not to look like it's been "improperly", I feel they should stand by their product. It is still within warranty, newly installed, and DOA, ie; never generated power for you.

The tech who installed it was apparently smart enough to diagnose the problem and the failed component, so I am assuming he was smart enough to install it correctly in the first place.

NL feels that it was installed incorrectly, but won't offer any troubleshooting tips . . . . except to say "It wasn't us!"

Word of mouth experience can be the very best, or the absolutely very worst advertising that a company can have.

Our decision whether or not to go with the Northern Lights M673L3 we are contemplating probably rests on Northern Lights handling of your issue. Please keep us advised.
Scot

"Guy with a Boat" makes some good points up-thread. There are some extenuating circumstances that make this not a 'slam dunk' in my favor. Per their request, I sent NL a raft of pictures - heck, I'll share them here too. You'll see what they see.

I was thinking of this after re-reading Guy with a Boat's post. NL clearly builds a good product. But are they a great company, as in "Good to Great?" Top 5%? From my tiny sliver of view, no - absolutely not. Why do I say that? For the moment, give NL the benefit of the doubt - the AVR rarely fails (I say it like this because I cannot tell you how many times I've heard "Gee, that never happens!"). An engineering-led company would say: "Wonder what the heck happened? Let's get that exact AVR on a bench and see if there's something we should change....." A great company would seek-out points of failure even if they are user-generated (correction: especially if they are user-generated).

For your purposes Scot, I think it hard not to consider Northern Lights kit for you, but I would certainly look more closely at alternatives. You're right about the guy who's smart enough to wire-in a replacement/universal AVR. Decent electrician - top quartile of people I've worked with. Did he make a mistake? Perhaps. If you decide to go forward with NL, find a Servicing Dealer, not just a selling dealer (this is similar to where we landed on the Victron thread - as important who you buy from as what you buy). Given my experience, my suggestion to NL would be to stop selling through dealers that are not also service centers. Fine to sell parts, but not the generator itself.

Good luck with whatever you decide. There are a lot of happy NL customers out there. Shame they don't mind having one pretty pissed-off and vocal one.

Peter

EDIT - Scot - found this internal document via Google search. As you read through it, pretty clear that NL is heavily reliant on Service Center techs for any warranty work - without a code to their portal, you can't begin a warranty claim. I'll post my outcome, but really, the tripwire for me was partially buying from a non-servicing dealer.

https://www.northern-lights.com/media/PDFs/misc_pdfs/NLI_Dealers_warranty_claim procedure.pdf

 

[mvweebles]

Friday, Feb 24 - quick updates - no pics

I've bitched and moaned lately including naming names so I thought I'd post a few updates.

1. Northern Lights Generator - recall, issue was dead Voltage Regulator (AVR) - my request was for a replacement AVR. Status is pending. They requested a bunch of additional pictures a couple days ago which I sent and I await. There is some good news. NL's policy is the warranty doesn't begin until the generator is installed so they give builders a 24-month grace period which is more than fair. In my case, they went one further. I purchased the generator in May 2019 but first sea trial where it was run was last year (May 16th 2022 to be exact - generator was run but had not been hooked-up to AC Panel yet). NL grasciously offered to make May 16th 2022 my in-service date, so technically I am covered for parts and labor until May 15th of this year. They still haven't made a determination on whether to provide a replacement voltage regulator, but I thought this was generous.

2. Lewmar Hatch. Recall, this leaked even after re-bedding the entire hatch; and re-sealing the lens. I believe I already updated that Lewmar states their manufacturing process makes re-sealing the lens difficult, and although I'm a few months out-of-warranty, they made a "Good Will" exception and are shipping a new top-half of the hatch. But it needs to come from the UK so 8-10 weeks out. While I really appreciate their doing this, I would not buy a Lewmar hatch again since it cannot be field-serviced.

3. Diesel in Water Tank. Pending. After what must be dozens of rinses with various enzymes and degreasers (Simple Green; Orange stuff used to clean commercial flat-top grills, etc.), there is still a slight visible sheen on the water. Possible this is soap scum, but it's also possible (probable?) this is the faintest amount of diesel. Have found a commercial steam cleaning outfit here for next week. The tap water is pretty cold here - flushing with cold water makes getting last of whatever is in the tank extremely difficult. Some heat should definitely assist.

4. Other stuff. Orlando has been aboard for about 5-6 days straight, much of his time has been correcting work from his workmen who just don't do decent work. Example - bilge pump/switch wires should be run to a terminal strip well-above the pump/switch. it's why they are typically sold with 30-inch leads. His guys simply butt-connected and wire-taped and left them hanging within the 'well' of the bilge pump. Another example: although they used heat-shrink crimp connectors, they did not heat-shrink them which is total laziness. If I were Orlando, I'd be pissed to have to re-do this work but he seems to take it in-stride.

Next Tuesday or so will take a longer sea trial and head the 3-miles to Marina Coral where there is a fuel dock to put on 100g diesel and check out stabilizers and autopilot functions. I'm pretty hopeful will be good to go for this phase. From there, I'll head back to Florida for a break, then plan some longer sea trials to San Diego, perhaps the Channel Islands. I'm sure there will be another list of small/medium things so expect to spend time with Guillermo later in the summer before heading south in the fall.

Peter

 

[Fletcher500]

I am going to guess that someone at NL is going to eventually find out about this thread and say hey, send that guy a damn AVR.

 

[mvweebles]

I am going to guess that someone at NL is going to eventually find out about this thread and say hey, send that guy a damn AVR.

I doubt it. Pretty sure they provide enhanced support to Nordhavn owners via the NOG forum which is otherwise closed to non-owners. The only crossover would be the few Nordhavn owners on this forum who may be active on NOG.

I'm gonna guess the AVR has a retail price of around $800 which is probably fair given the cost to design, manufacture, inventory, and train service techs. But the marginal cost at this point is probably well under $100. Given the number of CCs on the email chain and the sheer number of emails, you'd think it would be an easy decision. Apparently it's not which is fine - generator is running fine.

But knowing the support NL gives to the likes of Nordhavn and KK owners, really makes me feel like a second class buyer (perhaps third class - N/KK/etc are tops; installed by NL Service Tech are second; then theres me who had it installed by a legit marine mechanic---you DIY types dont stand a chance). I doubt I'd be subjected to the same doubt and suspicion under the same circumstances if Weebles were from a builder still in business. NL touts a global footprint but I really feel like they view Mexico as a bunch of shade tree mechanics (which there are many, but there are also bona-fide electricians and mechanics who are more than capable of installing and servicing a generator). Sounds harsh but they have done little to troubleshoot the problem except look for signs of poor installation which is pretty defensive. It's why I say a buyer should consider access to yachting centers in their purchase decision.

I'll ping NL later today to see if there's any progress.

Peter.

 

[SteveK]

I am going to guess that someone at NL is going to eventually find out about this thread and say hey, send that guy a damn AVR.

I will go 180 and say if they or Lewmar trip over this thread then Peter will begin to regret the posted criticism he has tendered to those he expects will bail him out.
I am now waiting for Hack team 2.0 comments.
Sorry Peter, had to point it out.

 

[mvweebles]

I will go 180 and say if they or Lewmar trip over this thread then Peter will begin to regret the posted criticism he has tendered to those he expects will bail him out.
I am now waiting for Hack team 2.0 comments.
Sorry Peter, had to point it out.

No need to apologize, you're entitled to your opinion. I tried to present the information as best I could without too much bias. For example, I was clear that NL makes a strong generator - my issue is it may not be the right choice for a re-power for a DIY person due to their emphasis on Dealer Service for any warranty issue. That's not a criticism, rather its a fair conclusion.

I don't expect anyone to 'bail me out.' As mentioned, my generator is running fine, albeit with a generic voltage regulator instead of the stock NL one that is undeniably under warranty. Even though Lewmar was kind enough to send a replacement lid to their hatch, I don't think it a criticism to point out that according to their own information, a leaking hatch bezel is not field serviceable - must be replaced. That's good information for anyone considering a $1000 hatch.

As far as the Hack Team, they went into ghost-mode the moment I presented them with the SAMS Suvey that showed their work was 'below industry standard.' They refused to pay me the money they themselves said they owed so rather than make even a sliver of effort to make it right, they went into ghost mode. I'd like nothing more than to see them in public but truth is, they thrive in darkness. Feel free to have your boat serviced by them - I wish you luck.

There's an old saying that a happy customer tells a friend. An angry one tells three. With the internet, that can be expanded to 1000, 10,000, or even 1,000,000. Over the course of my refit I've dealt with I'd guess close to 100 marine merchants. Vast majority have been pleasureable, valuable interactions - and I've mentioned many in my TF posts. Defender, Hodges Marine, SDMX, NewfoundMetals, Forespar, Burke SeaBrake, Guillermo/La Costa Boatworks; and many more. I'm not bashful about naming names - vast majority are recommendations. but a few are cautions when I believe it's warranted. I know of no one on TF who posts more links to OEMs than I do.

No regrets coming from me unless I've made a mistake. Possible I change my opinion and I'll definitely apologize if I made a mistake, but given the circumstances that led to my negative posts, the issues are noteworthy.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

@Peter

here's an old saying that a happy customer tells a friend. An angry one tells three.

I agree, but it is usually done when you are done and far away. Hack Team 1 can easily sabotage you, who would know, they are in the same yard working. Team 2 is now redoing their own work.

 

[Hippocampus]

It’s coming along. Good on you.

Reading your last post think Lewmar and NL actually acted fairly standuip in todays world. Many companies would have just walked away

Have had work done in 3rd world settings and 1st. Advantage of the non first is you can get things done at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost and often with the detail that requires time and patience. But in the first world will only use certified techs in a yard that states they only do ABYC level work and guarantee it.

I demanded a $40k drop in purchase price to fix a wet deck. Yard spent it all and then ~$20k on top of that. I went off cruising and still had a few fresh water leaks in wind driven heavy rain. Brought the boa back and they fixed those although it required another haul and time in a shed. They probably lost ~30k on the job and my work displaced other work they had on the book. That’s standup. It was Deltaville boatyard.

Now I could be pissed they didn’t get it entirely right the first time and I had to go RI to VA and back to RI. So I lost time cruising and needed a hotel while the boat was in the shed the second time. But my view is they could have dicked me around and did fix at a financial loss to them.

Think that’s the same view I would take with NL and Lewmar. They both are trying to make you whole at their expense. Neither company made a dime off of you in all likelihood. Especially Lewmar if they’re giving you another top half. Don’t know what a AVR costs but wouldn’t be surprised same applies.

 

[mvweebles]

It’s coming along. Good on you.

Reading your last post think Lewmar and NL actually acted fairly standuip in todays world. Many companies would have just walked away

Have had work done in 3rd world settings and 1st. Advantage of the non first is you can get things done at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost and often with the detail that requires time and patience. But in the first world will only use certified techs in a yard that states they only do ABYC level work and guarantee it.

I demanded a $40k drop in purchase price to fix a wet deck. Yard spent it all and then ~$20k on top of that. I went off cruising and still had a few fresh water leaks in wind driven heavy rain. Brought the boa back and they fixed those although it required another haul and time in a shed. They probably lost ~30k on the job and my work displaced other work they had on the book. That’s standup. It was Deltaville boatyard.

Now I could be pissed they didn’t get it entirely right the first time and I had to go RI to VA and back to RI. So I lost time cruising and needed a hotel while the boat was in the shed the second time. But my view is they could have dicked me around and did fix at a financial loss to them.

Think that’s the same view I would take with NL and Lewmar. They both are trying to make you whole at their expense. Neither company made a dime off of you in all likelihood. Especially Lewmar if they’re giving you another top half. Don’t know what a AVR costs but wouldn’t be surprised same applies.

The NL issue is still evolving and I'll post a resolution in days to come - I do believe there was some install errors, but partially because they do not color-code several important wires so tracing and troubleshooting is difficult. What is clear and will remain clear is they are extremely defensive about warranty claims, to the extent they remain fixated on culpability vs root-cause troubleshooting regardless of where fault lies. Their approach has been incredibly condescending - a bent-wire (evidence of tamper in their words) carries more importance to them than a replacement AVR solving the problem. Frankly, I just want the problem solved, not just NL's responsibility cleared.

For NL, regardless of ultimate root-cause, my caution is and will remain to potential buyers that NL's warranty and support is predicated upon NL-certified installation and support. To those who consider an NL generator outside that model, you're on your own. The good news is (and I've said this from the beginning) they build a good product so chances of having a failure are small. Just know you may be a bit naked if you need it.

With Lewmar, I agree that their sending a replacement lid is great. Frankly, more than I expected and more than I even asked for - I just wanted to know what the best sealant to use. However, my caution remains - Lewmar Ocean hatches are not a field serviceable. Once the seal is broken, chance of re-bedding the lens is apparently close to zero which means the entire hatch needs to be replaced. TT mentioned a pallat of trashed Lewmar Ocean hatches at a commissioning yard. I would not chose Lewmar for a hatch in the future based on this alone. But I do agree that while their warranty process has some unecessary upfront gating, the resolution was as good as can be expected.

Peter

 

[lwarden]

FWIW, I resealed the glass in one of my TaylorMade hatches. I removed the glass and all traces of sealant from the glass and frame, then cleaned thoroughly with Acetone. I bedded the glass down on a layer of thin black butyl tape, I think it was 1/16". Then masked off the frame and glass and squeegeed in Silkaflex 295 all around. So far so good for the past two years. Eventually I will probably replace it, but for now it's doing fine. My guess is this would work on the Lewmar hatches as well, but they wouldn't recommend it since it's a fussy process that can easily be messed up.

 

[mvweebles]

FWIW, I resealed the glass in one of my TaylorMade hatches. I removed the glass and all traces of sealant from the glass and frame, then cleaned thoroughly with Acetone. I bedded the glass down on a layer of thin black butyl tape, I think it was 1/16". Then masked off the frame and glass and squeegeed in Silkaflex 295 all around. So far so good for the past two years. Eventually I will probably replace it, but for now it's doing fine. My guess is this would work on the Lewmar hatches as well, but they wouldn't recommend it since it's a fussy process that can easily be messed up.

The guys at the yard followed this exact process with the Lewmar hatch once - right down to the acetone and 295 sealant (they buy acetone in 20-liter bottles and its quite reasonably priced here). Hatch still leaked so yard was going to do it again - the guy doing the work is pretty good with this type of stuff. Very patient and thorough. I thought Lewmar might recommend a different type of sealant which is when I reached out to them a second time. Here is their exact response:

"With the ocean hatches, it is best for the lid to be replaced when there is an issue with the seal/acrylic bond. This is due to the design of the hatch. Replacing the seal alone with likely still cause leaking issues as it will never be properly bonded."​

Thus my comment that I would not purchase them again as they are not serviceable. They carry a 3-year warranty that Lewmar extended as a courtesy (about 3-1/2 years old, and they took my word for it that it had not been installed until 2-years ago).

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

With Lewmar, I agree that their sending a replacement lid is great. Frankly, more than I expected and more than I even asked for - I just wanted to know what the best sealant to use. However, my caution remains - Lewmar Ocean hatches are not a field serviceable. Once the seal is broken, chance of re-bedding the lens is apparently close to zero which means the entire hatch needs to be replaced. TT mentioned a pallat of trashed Lewmar Ocean hatches at a commissioning yard. I would not chose Lewmar for a hatch in the future based on this alone. But I do agree that while their warranty process has some unecessary upfront gating, the resolution was as good as can be expected.

Peter

I kept getting replacement Lewmar hatches too, but it was via Ta Shing (the boat builder) and I don't know if they were getting them under warranty or if they were just buying and sending replacements. And I spent a bunch of time on the phone with Lewmar's head guy in the US, so they tried. The issue was that after several tries they still couldn't provide a leak-free hatch, so I decided to move on.


Related, our boat came with Lewmar interior combination roller screen/shades for those same hatches. The roller springs kept springing and failing and various shades were replaced multiple times. Also the magnetic catches would not hold with any dependability. We finally gave up on those too and bought OceanAir screens at our own expense, not under the boat's warranty. They are infinitely higher quality. Solid, all metal frames vs flimsy plastic. Just pitched the Lewmar shades in the dumpster today.

 

[mvweebles]

Northern Lights Warranty - where it's at.....

Tuesday, Feb 21 2023 - Generator but no power....& Northern Lights Warranty issues

I bought a new Northern Lights 6kw generator for the refit. Given delays with Covid and the Hack Team, the generator is now a couple years old and has about 30-minutes of run-time on it. But it has never generated so much as a single watt of power. Why? If you ask the local generator tech, it's because the AVR (Automatic Voltage Relay - a beefy printed circuit board) is defective. How does he know this? Because he has a spare and he swapped it and presto! 120VAC as shown in the picture below.

So this is a new generator, and should be covered under NL's "One + Four Year Warranty" right? At least the AVR should be, right? Apparently not - according to NL, the wiring in the terminal box looks sloppy and they are certain someone has messed with it and therefore it's not the AVR even though a swapped AVR works fine. To their thinking, the generator is test-run before it leaves the factory therefore there can be no DOA issues. If I want to disprove them, I'm free to take the boat to San Diego, hire a NL certified technician to troubleshoot.

Leaving aside my tale of woe, this warranty sleight-of-hand is something for y'all to consider. If you install your own or hire a non-NL branded tech to do the install, your chances of having a durable warranty quickly approach zero. For you new-boat buyers or those who had their generators installed by a NL Service Center and think you're in good shape, not so fast - cruise outside the travel limits of a NL Service Tech and use someone else and guess what? Another gotcha.

I've been an ardent support of NL for years - I cannot tell you how many times I've posted their videos about how they marinize their engines. Top quality. But from a customer support perspective? Unless you buy into their walled garden of tech support, well, I'm not impressed. For those roll-your-own types (and there are plenty on this forum), NL no longer has my unwavering support. Great kit, but a bit of a wasteland for DIY types. NextGen might be a better choice, at least in the US.

For me, I'll have the spare AVR installed by the electrician here. My warranty is void anyway, though I have reached out to NL via the place I purchased the generator through to see if they'd consider replacing the AVR board. I'm hopeful but not optimistic.

Peter
View attachment 136366

It's been 2-weeks since my issue with my new Generator started being worked. I wanted to offer an update - there is some positive news, but mostly stalled.

First and foremost, a shout-out to NL for one thing: based solely on my word, they have considered the Generator 'install date' to be May 16th 2022 - three years after I purchased it. They didn't need to do this, and I do appreciate it. Doesn't help me much in this situation because they've declined to warranty the AVR (more on this in a moment, but spoiler: I do understand their reasoning), but it was an incredible gesture that I want to put on the table before I get rolling with an otherwise mixed review.

NL builds a good generator. No question. But what this comes down to is what happens if you do have a problem? Is there a warranty; and do you need to be near a NL Service Tech?

1. Warranty of equipment. NL's position is the wiring had been tampered with and I agree - but its complicated. There is no reason anyone should touch these wires during install so that's unlikely; and NL informs there are non-documented color codes so factory screw-up is unlikely. So there are no obious culprits, but I agree, factory screw-up is the less likely. How does NL know the wires had been crossed? From a photograph - not listed on the wiring diagram is a wiring schema based on jacket-colors of crimp connectors connecting two circuit breakers with a 4-terminal strip (two white crimp-jackets, two red). They could tell from a photograph that the color sequence was wrong and told me to re-shuffle the connections. My electrician refused saying it would short-circuit the generator......and he was right. You see, of the four wires, two are essentially jumpers coming off a circuit breaker to a terminal strip. These were swapped meaning that although the color-coded jackets were not properly sequenced, the actual circuitry was correct - a white jumper wire was used in place of a red jumper wire, and vice-versa. I've suggested to NL that they update their wire diagram to account for the color-coded crimp-jackets, but in all candor, their ears closed the moment they saw the wire-colors were wrong - "Two-legs-bad" as the saying goes.

So NL has declined to warranty the AVR, an $800 part. I understand their reasoning and while I wish it were different, I'd be okay with that and order a replacement, except for one thing: who knows if the AVR is actually bad? The Circuit Breaker should protect it. And the replacement Universal AVR works fine, though NL is unsure if the replacement has all the circuitry and protections the OEM AVR has so could be masking a problem.

Which brings us to.....

2. Tech Support. So here's the rub - the symptom is the overload circuit breaker on the generator trips immediately (Generic AVR does not trip the breaker - 125VAC/62Ghz but who knows what gets bypassed with it vs OEM AVR). After two weeks, NL's trouble shooting really boils down to colors are wrong, you're on your own. I don't think they even hear me when I say the connections were correct, all they see is the colors are wrong. Mind you, following their instructions to make the colors correct vs my electrician would have resulted in serious damage. To further complicate the issue, NL believes the AVR is robust and is unlikely to be damaged so do not recommend replacement, but can offer no further troubleshooting beyond return to step-one and check the wiring. Take it to an NL Service Tech.

At this point, I wish it were as simple as replacing the AVR - I'd cough-up the $800 and be done with it. But NL really has no idea what the problem is, partly because they can't get past the four wires with R/W color jackets.

Conclusions: I am underwhelmed by the troubleshooting assistance I've received regardless of fault. Now, my situation is fairly unique due to length of time, introduction of Hack Team (though they never installed the generator), etc. But I will reiterate my original guidance: unless you have your NL generator installed and serviced by an NL service tech, warranty is at-risk. I think this is a fair statement. Good news is it's a strong generator and unlikely to fail. but if it does, you really want an NL Service Tech to call, not the factory.

In my opinion, NL should not sell their generators through non-service dealers because their business model does not support direct to buyer. That's not a bad thing if it's clear which, given the existence of NL dealers, is not clear. If I were to buy today, I would definitely look at other brands that have a direct-to-buyer support model such as NextGen. Or buy NL but have it installed by an NL Service Tech. Just a different purchase decision.

If I have a substantive update, will post.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Peter. Is your electrician NL trained? Perhaps leave it alone until you can get an NL trained tech to look it over, who can then (maybe) report to NL that the problem is warranty, or better yet can wire it up correctly without guessing. The locals may be in over their heads.
Maybe a trip with boat to SD

 

[mvweebles]

Peter. Is your electrician NL trained? Perhaps leave it alone until you can get an NL trained tech to look it over, who can then (maybe) report to NL that the problem is warranty, or better yet can wire it up correctly without guessing. The locals may be in over their heads.
Maybe a trip with boat to SD

At this point, waiting until I can get to San Diego and contact an NL Service Tech is the plan. My electrician is not NL certified but is pretty good overall. Having spent some quality time with the generator over the last several days, I can tell you they are fairly simple beasts - three wires to the panel (GR/WH/BL, at least for 120vac). It's really hard for me to imagine how this went south but it did. Every scenario I can think of - including factory screw up - is incredibly unlikely.

I just wish there was some decent info on troubleshooting the AVR. Replacing it isn't hard. If it was just a couple hundred bucks, I'd take the chance and just swap it knowing worst case is I have a spare. But $800 is a bit beyond swapping for troubleshooting sakes

Thanks Steve

Peter

 

[Bmarler]

did you happen to post a picture showing the terminals for the wiring, and a schematic? i don't remember seeing any pics. there's a few fairly talented electrical people here, i consider myself to be in that group as well. i been working with control circuits for decades. maybe someone will see something that was missed.
beyond that, i guess your plan is solid, it's working, and you'll have a chance for a nl tech to see it eventually. maybe they will be able to see that there was an issue with the color coding when you purchased it.
one more thing. you bought new, but is it possible it was messed with before you got it? it wouldn't be the first time something was borrowed from a new piece of equipment to help someone that was broke down, then replaced when the part was released from the factory. i doubt the selling dealer would confess to that though.

 

[SteveK]

Peter, by way of an example. The SCAD tank monitor on previous boat never worked. There was no schematic to follow, only the color of the wires to indicate where they connect. After many head scratching I took a longer look at the pictures of one tank/two tank SCAD and noticed my single tank order showed as if two tanks. I suspect that the two tank version was substituted by removing 2nd tank wires, which in the process pulled out wires which were put in the wrong place. Without a wiring diagram who knows for sure.

 

[mvweebles]

Thanks BMarler. As I assemble my thoughts, what is telling is NL was more interested in photos than wiring diagrams. But here are the last pics I sent to them showing the wiring was corrected. As you can see on the terminal strip, U1/U2 are both RED jacketed crimps, V1/V2 are both WHITE. These go to a pair of Circuit Breakers that are not labeled per-se. The wiring when I found it had the CB's effectively reversed - both U wires were on the left breaker; V was on the right. But my understanding is that shouldn't make a difference (didn't seem to - main over-current CB tripped immediate with it either way).

BTW - the smallish BL and WH on the 'panel' side of the terminal strip go to the unversal AVR.

I've traced these a dozen times now and am pretty comfortable it conforms to the wiring diagram (also attached). I probably need to trace-out the control wires to the AVR that go through a 9-pin plug. At least those are color-coded.

I'd sure like to be able to rule-out the AVR though. I still think it's probably bad but no way for me to know at this point.

Peter

BTW - good thought on someone scavanging parts. Because I ordered it through a non-servicing dealer, I doubt they did. But it's another possibility I hadnt thought of.

 

[Bmarler]

the schematic gets a bit blurry when i zoom in, but it looks correct to what you show in the pictures. the part showing the circuit breakers on the drawing make it look like only two wires are connected to a breaker. from what you say, there are two, double pole breakers. they had both hots on one, and both neutrals on the other. you changed it to u1/v1 and u2/v2. that should make zero difference to the avr as they're jumped at the terminal strip.
if that's the only change you made to the wiring, i don't see how it could trip a breaker unless something is crossed up on the other connector. i'd trace those out to be confident the hot and neutral going to the avr are correct.