Bendit
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 326
- Location
- New Zealand
- Vessel Name
- Pioneer
- Vessel Make
- Westcoaster 53 converted to pleasure
Thanks Steve, I'll get some pics up in the next few days.
Diesel Engines - The Good, The Bad & The Ugly?
- Thread starter Theta
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
Lugger and Deere use a lot of Toyotas!
Thats news to me, Yannmar used lots of Toyotas and now converts BMW diesels.
The Deere/Lugger seems to be Komatsu donors.
FF
Thats news to me, Yannmar used lots of Toyotas and now converts BMW diesels.
The Deere/Lugger seems to be Komatsu donors.
FF
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2007
- Messages
- 7,332
- Location
- Texas
- Vessel Name
- Floatsome & Jetsome
- Vessel Make
- Meridian 411
BMW was Yanmar's solution to the pollution regs that went into effect in 2007(?). Instead of redesign the whole line from 100-300hp, they just contracted BMW. This is for their engines from 100-300hp....not all of them. And I will correct myself. It is Lugger that uses Toyotas....not exclusively. But they do use some. I don't think Lugger makes any of their own engines whereas Deere does. Anyway, PMM has done extensive pieces on both Lugger and Deere and that is where I got that info from if I remember correctly.
JAT
Guru
I'm new here...but I'll throw in my two cents...
Our trawler has a pair of 6-354 Perkins NA's... and I like these engines.* They are very fuel efficient, and we've had very little trouble with them....in fact in the two and a half years we've had this boat...the only actual engine issues have been maintaining the raw water side of it all.* Our sailboat had a Perkins 4-108 and it seemed "bullet proof".* Depending on the version of the engine...parts can be a bit of an issue...not so much the internal parts but the raw water side.... and the strangest thing is...I can buy the actual Perkins branded filters for less than what NAPA and other parts stores sell them for.....in generics.* BTW...these are engines built in 78/79 and have over 6500 hours on them.*
I also like Cummins engines...I have experience with them but not marine experience.* The turbo diesel in our Dodge Ram is a great engine....and their M-11/ISM's and ISX's are great engines.* But as far as their best engines....they were the straight mechanicals that were "pre-electronic" like the N-14....they were pretty much bulletproof like Perkins engines.
I have a friend with a pair of Volvo's in his trawler, and he seems to spend a lot of time in the engine room...and he does complain about parts cost... beyond that I don't know much about them....
Detroits are good engines...but I think often times they are too much power for the boat they are in, and they aren't terribly fuel efficient.* I know that some versions like the Series 60 blows a lot of oil.... Not sure about earlier versions.*
Caterpillars....not fond of them... but my only experience has been non-marine versions and those with more electronic nonsense on them than the law should allow.* A lot of grief with the C-15 twin turbos.
Another friend has Ford-Leymans....he likes them....has little problem with them.* I think they are 120's....
Another friend has a single John Deere in his trawler....he loves it.*
Bottom line... if its a well known diesel...and it was well maintained....there should be little concern one way or the other....
-- Edited by JAT on Friday 5th of February 2010 04:00:36 PM
-- Edited by JAT on Friday 5th of February 2010 04:20:22 PM
Our trawler has a pair of 6-354 Perkins NA's... and I like these engines.* They are very fuel efficient, and we've had very little trouble with them....in fact in the two and a half years we've had this boat...the only actual engine issues have been maintaining the raw water side of it all.* Our sailboat had a Perkins 4-108 and it seemed "bullet proof".* Depending on the version of the engine...parts can be a bit of an issue...not so much the internal parts but the raw water side.... and the strangest thing is...I can buy the actual Perkins branded filters for less than what NAPA and other parts stores sell them for.....in generics.* BTW...these are engines built in 78/79 and have over 6500 hours on them.*
I also like Cummins engines...I have experience with them but not marine experience.* The turbo diesel in our Dodge Ram is a great engine....and their M-11/ISM's and ISX's are great engines.* But as far as their best engines....they were the straight mechanicals that were "pre-electronic" like the N-14....they were pretty much bulletproof like Perkins engines.
I have a friend with a pair of Volvo's in his trawler, and he seems to spend a lot of time in the engine room...and he does complain about parts cost... beyond that I don't know much about them....
Detroits are good engines...but I think often times they are too much power for the boat they are in, and they aren't terribly fuel efficient.* I know that some versions like the Series 60 blows a lot of oil.... Not sure about earlier versions.*
Caterpillars....not fond of them... but my only experience has been non-marine versions and those with more electronic nonsense on them than the law should allow.* A lot of grief with the C-15 twin turbos.
Another friend has Ford-Leymans....he likes them....has little problem with them.* I think they are 120's....
Another friend has a single John Deere in his trawler....he loves it.*
Bottom line... if its a well known diesel...and it was well maintained....there should be little concern one way or the other....
-- Edited by JAT on Friday 5th of February 2010 04:00:36 PM
-- Edited by JAT on Friday 5th of February 2010 04:20:22 PM
sharppractice
Member
two v8 detroits no problem for two years just a split hose. the sound from the exhaust makes up for the fuel consumption any day..
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"two v8 detroits no problem for two years
And parts will be available for another 50 years.
For most boats under 50 ft the DD 3-71 will produce the 40 to 80 hp cont. required with minor effort.
If I were setting up a boat I would take all the parts to a "speed shop" machine service.
The pistons would be matched , the rods balanced end for end and the crank balanced for the cruiser RPM 1500 to 1800.
SMOOOTH !!! for a few hundred extra bucks.
With the proper injector and timing choice , and good maint , the engine would be a 20,000 hour runner , about 100 times what most power cruisers can wear out.
Best of all it would be under an hour to prepare the engine for time out of service ,
the effort NOT given to most cruisers engines , that causes early DEATH!
And parts will be available for another 50 years.
For most boats under 50 ft the DD 3-71 will produce the 40 to 80 hp cont. required with minor effort.
If I were setting up a boat I would take all the parts to a "speed shop" machine service.
The pistons would be matched , the rods balanced end for end and the crank balanced for the cruiser RPM 1500 to 1800.
SMOOOTH !!! for a few hundred extra bucks.
With the proper injector and timing choice , and good maint , the engine would be a 20,000 hour runner , about 100 times what most power cruisers can wear out.
Best of all it would be under an hour to prepare the engine for time out of service ,
the effort NOT given to most cruisers engines , that causes early DEATH!
Nomad Willy
Guru
bobc
Senior Member
*
I had the same bias about 4 vs 6, but I have to admit, the four-cylinder John Deere -- which is counterbalanced -- is smoother than the Lehman 120 it replaced.* It's also more powerful, and shorter in length (which gave me room to add a separate starter battery).
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"{This fish boat has had a 3-71 DD for 61years."
Its probably finally broken in!
Its probably finally broken in!
i personnally have experience with volvo gas engines.lost both engines after just 135 hours due to poorly made exhaust elbows.dealt with volvo,who are extremely rude and unsupportive.their attitude was that they got their money,and if you have a problem then go ahead and sue them.they stated they have high price lawyers on retainer*,and that they can outlast my wallet.would never buy a volvo product again!!!!
healhustler
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2009
- Messages
- 5,198
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Bucky
- Vessel Make
- Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
When searching for our first trawler, I don't mind saying that I was trying to avoid Volvo's, simply from a parts price standpoint. The great majority of our boat model came with Volvo 4 cyl, diesels (a very good engine), but with so many disgusted owners out there from paying those parts prices, the boat we ended up with had a Yanmar refit, which for us was a deal maker. The quality and dependability you seek can come from engines of nearly every brand, but perhaps not from the entire horsepower range available. Once a diesel is turbocharged to offer 30, 40, 50 % or more over its naturally aspirated cousins, it can hardly be expected to offer you the same life and reliability that the base engine can. My advice is to look for a natural, but single turbos are still decent in the
lower horsepower ranges. The only deal breaker diesel I can think of are the few marinized GM 6.5 or IHC 7.3 units out there that weren't that great, even in their base engine configurations.
lower horsepower ranges. The only deal breaker diesel I can think of are the few marinized GM 6.5 or IHC 7.3 units out there that weren't that great, even in their base engine configurations.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"I know they were fired off about a year ago but nothing since."
Before you try a start , pull the valve cover and BE SURE none of the injectors are frozen.
If when you operate the throttle all the injectors go from no fuel to full fuel , great!
Just be sure they move!!
Purchase the correct "pin" from DD , and after it runs and is warmed up, adjust the valves , the injector timing (with the pin) and then do your best at "running the rack" all injectors should work together .
Do you have one of the USN 6-71 books?
Before you try a start , pull the valve cover and BE SURE none of the injectors are frozen.
If when you operate the throttle all the injectors go from no fuel to full fuel , great!
Just be sure they move!!
Purchase the correct "pin" from DD , and after it runs and is warmed up, adjust the valves , the injector timing (with the pin) and then do your best at "running the rack" all injectors should work together .
Do you have one of the USN 6-71 books?
Bendit
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 326
- Location
- New Zealand
- Vessel Name
- Pioneer
- Vessel Make
- Westcoaster 53 converted to pleasure
I'd look for*,in order of preference:*
1) NA ,
2) turbo with no aftercooler (eg Cummins 5.9 6BT 220)
3) turbo with Jacket water-cooled aftercooler (eg Cummins 5.9 6BTA 270)
Salt-water cooled aftercoolers are*high-maintenance items which are*very often the cause of engine failure - when not adequately maintained.
-- Edited by Bendit on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 02:36:04 PM
1) NA ,
2) turbo with no aftercooler (eg Cummins 5.9 6BT 220)
3) turbo with Jacket water-cooled aftercooler (eg Cummins 5.9 6BTA 270)
Salt-water cooled aftercoolers are*high-maintenance items which are*very often the cause of engine failure - when not adequately maintained.
-- Edited by Bendit on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 02:36:04 PM
Budds Outlet
Senior Member
*Ditto.* I had the misfortune of buying the wife a Volvo S80 sedan.* If it were not for the original Volvo warranty and an aftermarket warranty I could not have afforded to keep the car.* Parts costs are outrageous and the service cost is nearly as bad.* $60 for a pair of wiper blades!
Nomad Willy
Guru
Well for my Toyota (89) it was hundreds of dollars for throttle cables (2).
Thats great info, I don't have the books but I sure will get them before I do *crank them. *I had to tear out the starboard fuel tanks because they has some gunk in them so I am another week at least before I put the fuel to them. *That should give me time to get the books.
Here is something else to consider rather than which manufacturer, consider who can service the engines. If you are located away from larger cities, who fixes the engine and the parts availble locally is important. If there is a great Volvo dealer or John Deere or some other dealer nearby that might make a difference. Detroit and CAT have the most parts and repair centers, Hino marine parts might be difficult to find.
If you will base your boat at XWZ marina, talk to their service department, find out who is good nearby.
If you will base your boat at XWZ marina, talk to their service department, find out who is good nearby.
*Hino is a Japanese truck manufacturer.* I didn't know this until recently when I saw a newish box-body delivery van on the freeway that was a Hino.
I've not heard anything pro or con about their engines, but I have heard from our diesel shop that some boats that used Hinos--- specifically some models of Bayliner--- have the engines so shoehorned into the engine space that is is virtually impossible to work on or service the outboard sides of the engines without removing them from the boat first.
Fighterpilot
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2011
- Messages
- 380
I initially considered Bayliners with the 175HP hino. Sea Trialed two but not enough power. The engines are in kind of tight. NA and pretty sturdy but they do have one weak part in the mani-cooler. They tend to corrode and fail. Expensive to replace, both in labor and parts cost. Bayline forum can add to this.
