Docking a 100,000 LB boat
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@2savage, to reiterate, if you buy that boat then your remaining years of life will be much enhanced (especially financially) if you paint your boat with a good Jotun or similar chlorinated rubber coating and forgo the shiny Awlgrip mirror smooth finish.
rslifkin
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In general, bigger, heavier boats are easier. Everything happens more slowly (response to inputs, wind, etc.) so it's easier to be precise. As far as use of spring lines, it requires a little bit of trial and error to figure out what things work well and what things don't on a given boat.
As far as manhandling, I don't even like people trying to manhandle my 27k lb boat around. In calm conditions, sure you can do it just fine. But if there's any bit of wind, or I don't realize someone is tugging on a line and put an engine in gear, there's a definite risk of someone getting hurt (and certainly not succeeding at dragging the boat into place). By the time you get up to a 100k lb boat, that's greatly magnified.
As far as manhandling, I don't even like people trying to manhandle my 27k lb boat around. In calm conditions, sure you can do it just fine. But if there's any bit of wind, or I don't realize someone is tugging on a line and put an engine in gear, there's a definite risk of someone getting hurt (and certainly not succeeding at dragging the boat into place). By the time you get up to a 100k lb boat, that's greatly magnified.
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100K for a 50ft boat sounds oddly disproportionate. Are we talking about a steel fishing boat?
Many larger 100K boats have winches located close to the cleat. You heave a ground line, loop it on a bollard, cleat or piling, then use the winches. Deck hands aren't muscling a 100K boat.
Many larger 100K boats have winches located close to the cleat. You heave a ground line, loop it on a bollard, cleat or piling, then use the winches. Deck hands aren't muscling a 100K boat.
Wifey B: Smash into docks sooooooo many times? What? Why?...
Common sense. Guy with experience limited to "light weight" boats buys a steel monster that weighs as much as a concrete ready mix truck. Takes some lessons, but becoming adept at maneuvering a single with no thruster takes time. Time, and lots of bumps and grinding into wood piers, the occasional concrete wharf, springing off a piling, etc., but hopefully not bouncing against any pretty glass boats.
No matter how experienced we think we are, when the cross winds are blowing 15+ knots and waves are kicking up, we all have rough landings.
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OP
OP
2savage
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No, we're talking about an ocean crossing boat with 2000 gallon fuel tanks, 1,100 gallon water tanks etc. This is more of an expedition yacht. As per Robert Beebe, the A/B ratio needs to be as much B and as little A for a truly seaworthy vessel. This is no coastal queen or grubby rusty work boat.
Wifey B: And as hubby B said, on that boat I'd definitely have thrusters. I'm staying far far far away from the dude OP. I'm sure I'd struggle with 50 tons of iron, 15 knots cross winds, current and waves and single engine with no thruster which is why I'd never put myself in that situation. I've seen some that I believe are docking by feel. Then one must know when to not even try. There are circumstances in which that boat could not be docked safely.
Gdavid
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Sounds like you wouldn't need to dock very often with those capacities. You should be able to cherry pick the prettiest of conditions to bring it into a dock or tight quarters.
guy with a boat
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My advice is don't get a boat that size without thrusters. If you find the perfect boat but it has a single main and no thrusters, budget in the cost of adding at least a bow thruster. With the boat set up right and some training and practice, you can put the big boat right up against the dock in any reasonable conditions.
Our boat is way over 100,000 pounds and my wife and I have no issues with docking. We go slow and use headsets, and she doesn't step off the boat until its against the dock and stopped. We never toss the lines to a dockhand or anyone else, and prefer to do the whole process ourselves so we can control it. If we do have/accept help on the dock, we only hand over the lines (not throw) and give specific instructions. Docking should be calm and controlled, not a panic to throw lines before the boat gets away. Keep in mind I'm talking about the heavy boat described by the OP, not some lighter boats that have legit issues getting blown around and can be a handful at the dock.
The weight that several mentioned does slow the boat's reaction to the wind and can help. Don't forget that all that weight can also work against you because it takes time to stop or turn if you let the momentum creep up in the wrong direction. Its important to be aware of what the boat is doing and know that when you think you are stopped, you really are 100% stopped.
If you buy a steel fish boat and dock with crew at commercial docks, you can do your thing with no thrusters. If you want the ability to maneuver in various locations and conditions, with minimal crew, it will require at least one thruster, and two makes it really easy.
Set your boat up right and learn your boat, and there will never be a need to scratch your boat or anything else. 100,000 pounds can be your friend if you let it.
Blissboat
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Exactly right. A heavy boat takes time and energy to get moving, and it takes time and energy to get it stopped. You will be surprised at how quickly you gain a sense of the time and energy required on both sides of that equation.
The lag between energy input and resulting movement is sometimes called the "advance." I think of that as the distance that your head needs to be out in front of where the boat is headed whenever it is in motion. The point is that you must always be mentally out in front of your boat, and never behind it.
OP
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2savage
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I'm inclined to agree with all suggestions for a bow and/or stern thruster but am going to see how things are 'as is' until I decide what to do here. After all, it's been without for many decades and nothing has been done to date. Maybe I would be trying to correct an issue that does not need attention.
My current (commissioned) boat has both bow and stern thrusters. There is no maneuver it cannot do. But with the heavier boat there are plenty of maneuvers I would not even attempt to do.
My current (commissioned) boat has both bow and stern thrusters. There is no maneuver it cannot do. But with the heavier boat there are plenty of maneuvers I would not even attempt to do.
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In short, I think what psneeld was alluding to is that using a midships line is fine for our smaller trawlers, and coming into a berth you are familiar with, but to use a midships line in a larger vessel, or unfamiliar berth, requires getting the whole boat too close to the dock for comfort - ie the margin for error is reduced too much.
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It’s funny how the previous owners have been docking, fueling, maneuvering and sailing this boat for half a century, and they’ve been doing it all wrong this whole time, without thrusters at the front and at the back and in the middle and perhaps electronic joy sticks.
Seamanship is for suckers.
People were so ignorant back then [emoji846]
Seamanship is for suckers.
People were so ignorant back then [emoji846]
psneeld
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Somewhat what I meant..... but mainly the current or wind keeps you off or pushes you off before a line is made secure and is tight enough to do what many says " perfect or best or only line to use/ needed" .... just ain't so in my experience.
psneeld
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Don't worry, I get your point...
I too was a pro captain for big expensive boats. Scared to death or amazingly cautious not to scratch anything. After all, big bucks to fix, so alternative docking or solutions were the norm if the proposed docking might involve too much risk.
Then after 25 years of commercial, salvage and barge towing work..... bumping things then touching up the workboat finish became the norm and there was "no alternative docking" in most cases....the boss would just say "git'er done".
So, I became lazy and had an older trawler that wasn't Bristol as it was. Accepting the worst dock in a marina was no longer an issue and I became proficient enough to get there, maybe using a few pilings and tricks, but still haven't damaged anyone else's boat.
So there is no "right wzy" to have and use a boat....just if you mismatch boating styles and boats.
To the OP though.... it will be the rare ocean crosser/expedition vessel in 50 feet and $100,000. Sure there will be rugged, metal vessels out there, but that doesn't mean they are ocean crosses or expedition vessels and/or they will be very, very spartan/ lightly equipped.
Gdavid
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There is alot of truth to that but as boats are repurposed for recreational use, they are crewed very differently than when in commercial service. I say this not to disparage any crew in particular, just a generality about the demographics of recreational "trawlers" versus a working boat.
Rather than having a at least 1 hardy deckhand available to heave, make fast or adjust lines during the manuevers, you have a crew of less experienced (usually older) deckhands, probably less sure footed and not doing it on a day in day out basis. A deckhand hauling pots, fishing a seine net or really any commercial fishing evolution is working with heavily loaded lines on a pitching deck on frequent basis,
is bound to be more capable assisting with docking than your average retired CPA/lawyer/engineer/physician/etc. Similar could be said for a recreational "captain" versus a full time captain.
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psneeld
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Probably why mako and I are saying a few bumps and bruises on both vessel and crew might happen in a recreational scenario.
Even then, a lot of commercial crews are not really seamen at all or even good workers for various reasons. The captains might be better due to overall experience, but a rec guy doesn't necessarily operate in as demanding conditions unless expeditionary voyages and in many conditions can learn to dock as well in short oder when full timing and managing docking situations.
Even then, a lot of commercial crews are not really seamen at all or even good workers for various reasons. The captains might be better due to overall experience, but a rec guy doesn't necessarily operate in as demanding conditions unless expeditionary voyages and in many conditions can learn to dock as well in short oder when full timing and managing docking situations.
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I believe the OP was assuming 50' and 100,000 POUNDS, not dollars. That pretty much describes our boat, 50', 85k to 110k if fully loaded . . .
OP
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2savage
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NO. NOT $100,000. We're talking 100,000 LBS. I'm not sure where you got the dollar amount from but I don't think it's in this thread. And I WISH it was just that amount.
@Gdavid, what you say makes alot of sense and makes me think. Although I am confident and proud of my abilities, my mate (my wife) is not very enthusiastic about boats in general. Thinking to the future for my big, heavy boat, she might not ever become the capable deckhand able to assist in warping to dock. Perhaps I'll need to consider installing a bow thruster as well (although I'll have to hang my head in shame when that day comes)
psneeld
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First sentence of post 37 .... the 100K wasn't labeled $ or pounds and I got it twisted and that stuck in my mind for some reason.
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Daddyo
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@Gdavid, what you say makes alot of sense and makes me think. Although I am confident and proud of my abilities, my mate (my wife) is not very enthusiastic about boats in general. Thinking to the future for my big, heavy boat, she might not ever become the capable deckhand able to assist in warping to dock. Perhaps I'll need to consider installing a bow thruster as well (although I'll have to hang my head in shame when that day comes)
Wifey B: Have you ever used a microwave?
Do you use a cell phone?
Do you use a remote to open your car door?
Do you use speed control when driving your car on highways?
Do you use turn signals or stick your arm out the window?
If you do any of these, then what is with the macho attitude and advising a relative newbie to just bang against the docks instead of having a thruster and what is it with your shame of using a thruster?
Using a thruster doesn't mean you can't do it without and doesn't make you less of a captain. Refusing to consider one makes you blind to the potential benefit it might have.
The attitude just confuses me. And for the OP, I still recommend bow thrusters.
I can dock without thrusters. Never had them on the lake. But they're here and I have them and I use them and make no apologies.
Judging by my performance last weekend, I volunteer to teach OP how to hit every piling and piece of timber when coming into dock
rslifkin
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Wifey B: Have you ever used a microwave?
Do you use a cell phone?
Do you use a remote to open your car door?
Do you use speed control when driving your car on highways?
Do you use turn signals or stick your arm out the window?
If you do any of these, then what is with the macho attitude and advising a relative newbie to just bang against the docks instead of having a thruster and what is it with your shame of using a thruster?
Using a thruster doesn't mean you can't do it without and doesn't make you less of a captain. Refusing to consider one makes you blind to the potential benefit it might have.
The attitude just confuses me. And for the OP, I still recommend bow thrusters.
I can dock without thrusters. Never had them on the lake. But they're here and I have them and I use them and make no apologies.
I think the point was more that while they're useful if you've got them, a lack of thrusters doesn't inherently make the boat unsuitable or mean that thrusters must be added right away.
