Docking a 100,000 LB boat

[2savage]

Judging by my performance last weekend, I volunteer to teach OP how to hit every piling and piece of timber when coming into dock

Thanks for the offer, but I think I can manage that without tuition

 

[Mako]

@Wifey-B, that's a rather serious response to an obviously light-hearted statement by me. In any case, I wouldn't want to ruin my macho-man image by asking for help or stopping to ask for directions

 

[BandB]

@Wifey-B, that's a rather serious response to an obviously light-hearted statement by me. In any case, I wouldn't want to ruin my macho-man image by asking for help or stopping to ask for directions

Wifey B: Parts light hearted but always some chest bumping here and elsewhere that one can do it without thrusters. Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's always wise. I know it's heresy to some but I sure love a joystick with engines and thrusters all tied together.

Wonder if could somehow add thrusters to our jet propelled ribs. Single engine and all it does is shoots water out.

 

[Mako]

If you really want to have fun, take the clamshell used for reversing and turn it around so it shoots straight up. Make sure to send us some photos!

 

[BandB]

If you really want to have fun, take the clamshell used for reversing and turn it around so it shoots straight up. Make sure to send us some photos!

Wifey B: Me thinks not.

 

[syjos]

I think the point was more that while they're useful if you've got them, a lack of thrusters doesn't inherently make the boat unsuitable or mean that thrusters must be added right away.

I agree. After a boat purchase, there are many other things that are higher up the priority list that will need attention.

We bought a single engined Mainship 34 back in the mid 80's.

My first planned project was installing a bowthruster, everybody said I needed one............ until a new exhaust elbow had to be custom made and the turbo had to be rebuilt from a leak. And many other items needed to be added or replaced, reducing my after purchase budget.

We figured that we would install the thruster the following year....... until installing a new autopilot. It would be used all the time versus a bow thrusters occasional usage.

Next year......... new generator.

By the third year after getting familar with the boat, I no longer needed a thruster.

 

[psneeld]

Wifey B: Parts light hearted but always some chest bumping here and elsewhere that one can do it without thrusters. Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's always wise. I know it's heresy to some but I sure love a joystick with engines and thrusters all tied together.

Wonder if could somehow add thrusters to our jet propelled ribs. Single engine and all it does is shoots water out.

To you it's chest bumping. Some call it pride in seamanship/ boat handling.

Just like some people take pride in chest anything....

 

[syjos]

To you it's chest bumping. Some call it pride in seamanship/ boat handling.

Plus 1 on that point of pride.

Not much pride any more for:


Good boat handling and seamanship

Boating etiquette

Self sufficiency

Ability to install and repair things

Knowing the rules and regulations

Good grammer, spelling and punctuation

 

[BandB]

To you it's chest bumping. Some call it pride in seamanship/ boat handling.

Plus 1 on that point of pride.

Not much pride any more for:


Good boat handling and seamanship

Boating etiquette

Self sufficiency

Ability to install and repair things

Knowing the rules and regulations

Good grammer, spelling and punctuation

Wifey B: Oops.....so sorry to have to do this. Grammar.

 

[syjos]

To you it's chest bumping. Some call it pride in seamanship/ boat handling.



Wifey B: Oops.....so sorry to have to do this. Grammar.

Oops on me!

No need to be sorry,, I deserve that one.

 

[garychurch]

I have a 120,000 pound 64’ Grand Banks. Cannot imagine a boat with a single screw and no thrusters. As a minimum put bow and stern thrusters on it or pass on it.

You cannot finesse a 100,000 pound boat with only a single screw. Wind and currents will overcome any such efforts.

 

[JWellington]

Any boat that big , if it doesnt have thrusters, should at least have powered capstans. Nobody can be expected to 'manhandle' it.

 

[ramkay]

I may need to know everything about handling heavy boats when docking. For this discussion assume single screw, 50 foot long and no thrusters.

My main concern is regarding how a deck hand deals with a dock line when the boat is still three feet off the dock. Can they just muscle the boat closer? Will I be looking at improving my skills of using a spring line and full rudder to get up against a dock?

Although I have a trawler right now (Ranger 29) its 9,500 lbs, not 100,000. The heaviest boat I have owned is 12,500 lbs (my C&C 34/36+ sailboat, which I still own). All advice greatly appreciated.

With a single screw boat of that tonnage, your best bet is to have the boat sticking to the dock. In order to do this you need to be parallel to the dock to start with as much as possible, then turn the helm all the way away at the opposite side of the dock. Put your throttle at idle and then engage forward at first click for 3 seconds and then back to idle for 1 second and then engage in reverse for 3 seconds. Keep repeating and you'll see the boat getting closer and closer to the dock just like magic. At that point your deck man has to tie the boat at the stern and then proceed to the bow. Once tied to the stern keep throttle on forward until he handles the bow.

 

[captmikem]

Let me add this:

When I first went to sea on large ships, I sailed with an old shipmaster who was kind enough to help me and advise me in the profession. As to shiphandling in close quarters and docking, he gave me 4 rules to follow. I think of them often.

Here they are.
1. Never get anything started you can't stop.
2. Slowly
3. Slowly
4. Slowly

M

 

[captmikem]

I have a 120,000 pound 64’ Grand Banks. Cannot imagine a boat with a single screw and no thrusters. As a minimum put bow and stern thrusters on it or pass on it.

You cannot finesse a 100,000 pound boat with only a single screw. Wind and currents will overcome any such efforts.

I have driven a LOT of single screw tugs well over 100,000 pounds. Yes, You can finesse a 100,000 pound boat with only a single screw, It just takes experience.

M

 

[psneeld]

I have a 120,000 pound 64’ Grand Banks. Cannot imagine a boat with a single screw and no thrusters. As a minimum put bow and stern thrusters on it or pass on it.

You cannot finesse a 100,000 pound boat with only a single screw. Wind and currents will overcome any such efforts.

Yes and no...depends on skill level.

Comfort level of most rec boaters may require sitting out many scenarios.

 

[ramkay]

For a boat that size and weight the most important thing is to put it right against the dock the smoothest way possible. To achieve this, you have to be:
1- parallel to the Dock
2- turn the helm all the way opposite to the dock
3- put the engine on idle
4- engage forward on first click for 2 seconds
5- go back to neutral for 1 second
6- engage in reverse on first click for 2 seconds
7- go back to neutral for 1 second
Repeat the manoeuvre as many times as needed and you'll see the boat getting closer and closer to the dock just like magic.
Once against the dock, have the mate tie up the stern first. Put the engine on forward on First click and have him tie up the bow. Then back to neutral. Once this done, you can adjust by handpulls on the ropes. This is a manoeuvre that is used also in high winds and current conditions as well.

 

[SeaStarDF50]

I can't speak to driving and docking but I'm an experienced, minimally competent, lone deck hand on our 1969, wooden 50ft DeFever. Built for "heavy-duty, offshore cruising", she's heavy, single-screw, no thrusters, with a 6ft draft, and carries 1800 gallons of fuel and water. My skipper, whose other rigs were FA-18s, L1011s, and 737s, is comfortable driving awkward vehicles and is very skilled at maneuvering her 50ft in tight spaces. Still, we try to be selective where we dock, only dock in daylight, avoid or work with wind and strong currents, use the reverse, port-walking prop intentionally, and always take it slow. No body parts are allowed between the boat and anything else, but a fending pole can usually alter direction or hold off when needed.



Our docking technique from the deckhand: We wear headsets. He plans the approach and advises me. I prep all fenders and lines for anticipated needs, and open at least part of the side gate. If the conditions are calm and we're close, I'll loop the dock side stern and bow lines so they can be feasibly grabbed by someone on the dock. I never jump off and only rarely step onto the dock before we're secure at the midline. If there are cleats rather than a bullrail, my almost-always successful technique is drape a loop of the midline over the gunnel and lasso the dock cleat, positioning it to slow the boat if needed. With one end secured onboard, I hold the other end and can usually draw us closer. I did say we go very slowly and are usually not moving much at this point. If there is someone on the dock to catch lines, I do throw them but with strict instructions to wrap and hold until the captain tells them to secure.



Recently, when I was telling a young dockhand that we would not parallel park in the 55ft slot she had assigned us, she asked if our thrusters were broken. I imagine we'll add a younger, more capable deckhand before we add thrusters!

 

[Circumnavigator]

I completely agree with the comments above that bigger and heavier is easier.


Fintry is 79' and weights around 350,000 pounds with full fuel and water. The wind doesn't push her around much. She is the easiest boat to handle in tight quarters of any I have driven -- single or twin. Of course, "tight quarters" is a larger space than it is for a 35' boat.



She has a bow thruster, but, more important, she has a 5' propeller and rudder to match. Without using the thruster, I can nose her into the dock at about a 30 degree angle, so that she touches about 15' aft of the bow. The deckhand can get out with the spring through the gate there. Or, she can use a boat hook to put a loop over a cleat a little aft of midships. Once you have the spring on, put the rudder hard over opposite to the dock and go forward very slowly.


That works fine if the dock can take it. Many can't -- you'll move the dock more than you move the boat.


The alternative on Fintry is for the deckhand to put the spring on, toss a stern line onto the dock and then go ashore and put the stern line on a cleat. Once that's done, the deck hand can come back aboard and winch the stern in. Fintry has an obsolete three speed sailing winch on the stern which makes it easy to pull the stern in.


Note that most big boat captains handle their lines backward to common marina practice. They put a loop ashore and adjust the lines on board. This is particularly good when you give a line to a "helper" on the dock -- you can tell them to simply drop it on "that cleat" and they don't need to apply any judgement. If they try to pull on the line, you can tell them again -- "just drop it on the cleat". Many dock "helpers" -- including marina employees -- will try to pull a heavy boat in. As noted above, that's marginal for a 100,000 pound boat and impossible for Fintry.



One advantage Fintry has that your boat may not -- there's an 8" high rubber rub rail all around, so the only place she is vulnerable to damage is the swim platform.


Also, SeaStarDF50, just above, mentions headsets. Our Eartec headsets are one of the best things we have. No yelling, the deckhand can constantly talk me in or out so that while Fintry has both a mirror and video camera, I don't pay attention to either. Also I can tell her which cleat I want a line on and she can tell the "helper" on the dock from a few feet away -- no yelling, no loud hailer.


Jim

 

[Mako]

Jim, you state that you do have a bow thruster. So how important and how often used it is by you?

 

[dutch-barge]

handling

I can only tell what we do with out 60 ft 58,000 lbs steel boat.

No we don't have a bow truster.....a single prop.
If we are about 10-6 feet of the deckhand has one side of the mooring line attached to the boat ...then throws the rope over the cleat, bollard and pulls it in.

NO the deckhand can NOT pull the boat...just secures it. Then the person driving the boat..gently nudges the boat forward with rudder opposite to the morning side. Once next to the dock the driver attached the rope and the front rope is adjusted.

On a heavy boat you NEVER pull the ropes in order to move the boat.
you loop the return rope partially around the cleat on the boat hold on to it and put your feet on the rope.and let your weight of your body , slowly push the rope..pull the rope and repeat.

Even Mr. Universe would not be able to control a heavy boat by holding on the rope...for that you have cleats.

You see these cute poles with loops like 'the loop'. they are great for the common glasfiber boats, which a teenager can move. But they don't work for heavy boats..unless of course you want to see your deckhand tumble in the water....

 

[Jbear]

I read through several of the responses. I own a 36’ single screw. So first was a 50’ 100,000 pounds? Maybe half that weight at 50’ actually. But you still aren’t pulling it anywhere. I pretty much only let my wife handle lines as she knows to never jump or do anything other than step off. Captains job to land safely. No matter, wind in the PNW coupled with smaller fairways and overhangs such as Friday Harbor can test anyone’s skills. Practice a bunch, don’t yell ever, don’t say “jump”, and a million other safety things. If you don’t put the boat alongside safely then what many have suggested, get some training. Landing can get exciting but it really is the captains job to keep it safe and civil. And yeah, you may crash a few times. [emoji23]

 

[Circumnavigator]

Jim, you state that you do have a bow thruster. So how important and how often used it is by you?

Hmm -- tough question. It's useful getting out of our slip in Boston -- which is about 90 feet wide and we need to either back down several hundred feet or do a 180. She'll turn to starboard in her own length with the rudder hard over, but it takes a lot of back and forth. Turning to port is harder. So, we use the bow thruster to help her around.


Also coming out of our slip, there is a point when we pass between a barge and a pier on pilings. The barge is deep enough so the one knot current doesn't get by it, but the current is there on both sides. The thruster helps keep her straight in the narrow hole.


And, as I said above, I can dock her without it, but with it, I can parallel park in a space maybe ten feet longer than her 79'.


Finally, it's useful in narrow places. I use the thruster to keep the bow where I want it and the rudder -- my stern thruster -- to control the stern. Places like St Peters Canal.


So, is a bow thruster essential? No. But considering the overall cost of the boat, it's a small piece of the tab and it makes life easier.


Jim

 

[TheBigWhit]

Hmm -- tough question. It's useful getting out of our slip in Boston -- which is about 90 feet wide and we need to either back down several hundred feet or do a 180. She'll turn to starboard in her own length with the rudder hard over, but it takes a lot of back and forth. Turning to port is harder. So, we use the bow thruster to help her around.


Also coming out of our slip, there is a point when we pass between a barge and a pier on pilings. The barge is deep enough so the one knot current doesn't get by it, but the current is there on both sides. The thruster helps keep her straight in the narrow hole.


And, as I said above, I can dock her without it, but with it, I can parallel park in a space maybe ten feet longer than her 79'.


Finally, it's useful in narrow places. I use the thruster to keep the bow where I want it and the rudder -- my stern thruster -- to control the stern. Places like St Peters Canal.


So, is a bow thruster essential? No. But considering the overall cost of the boat, it's a small piece of the tab and it makes life easier.


Jim

Your boat looks like a Watson 76’. Nice boat!

 

[psneeld]

For a boat that size and weight the most important thing is to put it right against the dock the smoothest way possible. To achieve this, you have to be:
1- parallel to the Dock
2- turn the helm all the way opposite to the dock
3- put the engine on idle
4- engage forward on first click for 2 seconds
5- go back to neutral for 1 second
6- engage in reverse on first click for 2 seconds
7- go back to neutral for 1 second
Repeat the manoeuvre as many times as needed and you'll see the boat getting closer and closer to the dock just like magic.
Once against the dock, have the mate tie up the stern first. Put the engine on forward on First click and have him tie up the bow. Then back to neutral. Once this done, you can adjust by handpulls on the ropes. This is a manoeuvre that is used also in high winds and current conditions as well.

Your definition of high winds and strong current must be vastly different than mine and most captains I know.

In 2.5 knots of current pushing you off the dock....you are 4 feet away in every second.....so in your 4 second forward and reverse with a second spacing each shift you are pushed 16 feet. Each one of your shifts would never overcome all that. Especially in idle on most boats I have run.

Please all reading, check my math conversions as I am in a rush.

 

[Lepke]

You cannot finesse a 100,000 pound boat with only a single screw. Wind and currents will overcome any such efforts.

While I prefer twin screw for my private boats, I docked, etc,. a 300+ ton, single screw, tug several times a day in almost any weather. And some much bigger vessels. As others have said, it's a matter of experience.
If yachtsmen having handling troubles would set aside some days for docking practice, or docking and undocking several additional times each outing They would improve their handling skills quickly.
In the 1950s and before, freighters, almost always single screw, often docked themselves without tugs in smaller ports. They still do in some foreign ports.

 

[2savage]

With a single screw boat of that tonnage, your best bet is to have the boat sticking to the dock. In order to do this you need to be parallel to the dock to start with as much as possible, then turn the helm all the way away at the opposite side of the dock. Put your throttle at idle and then engage forward at first click for 3 seconds and then back to idle for 1 second and then engage in reverse for 3 seconds. Keep repeating and you'll see the boat getting closer and closer to the dock just like magic. At that point your deck man has to tie the boat at the stern and then proceed to the bow. Once tied to the stern keep throttle on forward until he handles the bow.

I'm assuming that this would be port side to the dock, using prop walk to close the gap?

 

[Mobcat]

I manage to handle a 55ft trawler style displacement hull on my own most of the time docking, 135 Lehman and velvet drive, I find the secret especially if possible coming into a 45deg angle to dock with enough speed for steerage and thrust control when the bow is a meter off the dock plant some reverse thrust to to stop the boat and she tucks nicley onto the dock even with a stiff wind blowing across the dock, the spurt of reverse thrust is your friend big time once mastered, boat sits down beautifuly placed just ready to tie her off ...... practice makes perfect but the perfect docking solution for displacement hulls short handed or not

 

[Lostsailor13]

Spring line

 

[Blissboat]

I manage to handle a 55ft trawler style displacement hull on my own most of the time docking, 135 Lehman and velvet drive, I find the secret especially if possible coming into a 45deg angle to dock with enough speed for steerage and thrust control when the bow is a meter off the dock plant some reverse thrust to to stop the boat and she tucks nicley onto the dock even with a stiff wind blowing across the dock, the spurt of reverse thrust is your friend big time once mastered, boat sits down beautifuly placed just ready to tie her off ...... practice makes perfect but the perfect docking solution for displacement hulls short handed or not

Have used that procedure hundreds of times, and it used to be my routine. Worked just as you say, and I even taught novices to do the same. With time, however, I began to imagine the consequences of a transmission failure. You know that transmissions never fail, except at the worst possible moment . . .

Anyway, singlehandedly throwing an underpowered single-engine boat of 40 or 50 feet into a parallel slip not much bigger than the boat, sans thruster, is a fun and satisfying way to impress an audience. Eventually I began to feel that I might have used up my quota of luck, and now I take it slower.