Extended Anchoring Out

[Action]

This IS why Florida has such an abandoned boat problem

That and hurricanes

 

[scott_free]

Florida code defines a livesboard as someone who lives on their boat to the exclusion of a land based address.

Could you provide a link to the FL code as I would be interested in the wording used. I have done a search but was unable to find the code you were referring to.


This is the best I could find but defines liveaboard different than what you indicated.

https://www.myfloridalegal.com/ag-o...al enterprise, or a legal residence. " (e.s.)


Thank you,
Scott

 

[psneeld]

Could you provide a link to the FL code as I would be interested in the wording used. I have done a search but was unable to find the code you were referring to.


This is the best I could find but defines liveaboard different than what you indicated.

https://www.myfloridalegal.com/ag-o...al enterprise, or a legal residence. " (e.s.)


Thank you,
Scott

It is my understanding that even if you "live full time on your boat" but are a transient, long-term cruiser you are OK anchoring in Florida.

Unless there is a state sanctioned mooring program in that community. You can also be restricted from anchoring in certain local spots, but there has to be a reason better than the condo owners don't like it. Outside of populated areas, or outside constricted waterway areas, you are probably not going to be harassed if you are truly transient...meaning no more than a couple weeks in one spot. Assuming your boat doesn't look like a derelict and maintains all the appropriate lights, dayshapes and signals.

One of the biggest problems is if you are ALSO a Florida resident and the boat stays in one spot for more than a couple days or is in one of the locations I mentioned above.

 

[mvweebles]

Could you provide a link to the FL code as I would be interested in the wording used. I have done a search but was unable to find the code you were referring to.


This is the best I could find but defines liveaboard different than what you indicated.

https://www.myfloridalegal.com/ag-o...al enterprise, or a legal residence. " (e.s.)


Thank you,
Scott

It's actually buried in the URL you cited:

Live-aboard vessels" are defined for purposes of Chs. 327 and 328, F.S., in s. 327.02(13), F.S. (1984 Supp.), in the following terms:

"(13) "Live-aboard vessel" means:

(a) Any vessel used solely as a residence;

or

(b) Any vessel represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence.

A commercial fishing boat is expressly excluded from the term 'live-aboard vessel.'"

The codes pertaining to long-term anchor outs pertain to liveaboards. Given the definition of a livesboard, you can easily see the difficulty in ascertaining whether a vessel is the sole residence of an anchor out.

Peter

 

[Lepke]

Sewage discharge seems to be the big issue with water borne enforcement. When I bought my current boat, no discharge areas were my concern. Several open areas were under consideration for no discharge zones. To solve the problem I went with Incinolet (sewage burning) toilets. To support them went with a large battery bank and larger inverter. I also have generators and can charge my banks with the mains when cruising.

I have a private dock on a river in Oregon where I winter. I like to cruise from there to Alaska and back. The dock only has power, no water, etc. I make fresh water year round. I haven't stayed at a marina since 2011. When I anchor, it's often for weeks. The few times I have been boarded for a safety inspection while anchored, they head for the marine toilet. Incinolet shuts them down since their other safety considerations are well covered.

If you set your boat up for the power you need to be comfortable, permanent anchoring works fine. To solve the address issue, I have a mail box at a commercial mail service. If necessary they forward mail to me when I send a temporary address.

 

[DBG8492]

Another tactic I heard was to go in as a month long transient and blend your way into a long-termer.

This is how everyone in my boating circle does it now. We all "live aboard" our boats, but there's no upside in saying those words to a marina.

 

[scott_free]

It's actually buried in the URL you cited:

Live-aboard vessels" are defined for purposes of Chs. 327 and 328, F.S., in s. 327.02(13), F.S. (1984 Supp.), in the following terms:

"(13) "Live-aboard vessel" means:

(a) Any vessel used solely as a residence;

or

(b) Any vessel represented as a place of business, a professional or other commercial enterprise, or a legal residence.

A commercial fishing boat is expressly excluded from the term 'live-aboard vessel.'"

The codes pertaining to long-term anchor outs pertain to liveaboards. Given the definition of a livesboard, you can easily see the difficulty in ascertaining whether a vessel is the sole residence of an anchor out.

Peter

But my vessel is not used solely as a residence it is also used for traveling, navigating, fishing amongst others.



Live-aboard vessel means a Vessel used solely as a residence and not for navigation, or a Vessel for which a declaration of domicile has been filed pursuant to Florida Statute 222.17, or a Vessel used as a residence that does not have an effective means of propulsion for safe navigation.



I believe 327 and 328 are not applicable to vessels that transit.



Scott

 

[mvweebles]

But my vessel is not used solely as a residence it is also used for traveling, navigating, fishing amongst others.



Live-aboard vessel means a Vessel used solely as a residence and not for navigation, or a Vessel for which a declaration of domicile has been filed pursuant to Florida Statute 222.17, or a Vessel used as a residence that does not have an effective means of propulsion for safe navigation.



I believe 327 and 328 are not applicable to vessels that transit.



Scott

At the Madeira Beach town council meeting I attended, the Pinellas County deputies said that in 4 years of enforcement, they had written exactly zero violations for livesboard anchoring. Mind you, this is a 30 mile stretch of the ICW that is heavily populated with condos and million dollar homes.

Clearly, some of the derelict boats are occupied by erstwhile homeless folks. But they know enough to say they have an landside address. It's on LEO to prove otherwise, thus the 0 citations in 4 years.

Perhaps other Florida jurisdictions see this differently. But the definition of livesboard is pretty narrow and easily defeated to avoid law enforcement.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

what makes one liveaboard homeless and the other liveaboard not?
answer
The other says he has a land address.

IMO all liveaboards have a home.

 

[scott_free]

My wife and I are still both working so we are currently part time cruisers so it really isn't a concern for us at this point. We do have different plans in roughly 2 years that will make us full time cruisers. We will likely keep our house for a while til we're sure full time cruising is for us. Then we may sell both of our houses and not have a land based address but that's a few years away. But to be honest I don't ever see us staying in one place long enough to be hassled by authorities.

Scott

 

[slowgoesit]

You don't have to have a dirt address if you live full time on the boat, as long as your boat is used for navigation.
So if your boat is capable of moving under it's own power, and you do so, it is being used for navigation, and you therefore are NOT a "Liveaboard".

Personally, we never use the term liveaboard. We are "Full Time Cruisers", even though we have a dirt house. Haven't seen it in > 2 years, but it's there. Neighbors are cutting the lawn, checking up on it. It's a hedge against rising home costs, and a place to store all our stuff we haven't yet succeeded in getting rid of!

 

[Don L]

In 7 years ull time cruising I have never had a LEO come to my boat while anchored anywhere, including Florida.

 

[scott_free]

In 7 years ull time cruising I have never had a LEO come to my boat while anchored anywhere, including Florida.

My guess is it's because your boat probably doesn't look like a derelict vessel and it likely doesn't stay in one location for an extended time. Just a guess.
Scott

 

[Fixin to]

Waccamaw river North of Wachesaw Landing and below the Socastee swing bridge. Lots of anchorages and several marinas.

Ted

Waccamaw is beautiful. Think Amazon River. I have anchored in a little round lake a mile or so off the ICW that is peaceful. Alligators abound.

 

[Don L]

My guess is it's because your boat probably doesn't look like a derelict vessel and it likely doesn't stay in one location for an extended time. Just a guess.
Scott

Maybe. But I have anchored for weeks in places in Florida that people say the LEOs hassle you and still have never even had them stop to talk to me.

As a cruiser I am all for cleaning up boat scum problems.

The real thing that controls boats anchored in areas of Florida is access to shore.

 

[Ric]

How did you phrase your inquiry? Marinas that do not allow liveaboards may welcome transient cruisers who are living aboard, even if they stay for a couple of weeks. We had no problems anywhere on the Great Loop, including the SE. That was in 2017; have policies changed radically since then?

 

[psneeld]

How did you phrase your inquiry? Marinas that do not allow liveaboards may welcome transient cruisers who are living aboard, even if they stay for a couple of weeks. We had no problems anywhere on the Great Loop, including the SE. That was in 2017; have policies changed radically since then?

Dramatically changed. The demand for slip in SE Florida is so high the marinas that the largest sum of money with the minimum contact with owners seems to be the preferred business plan.

 

[wonderfuljenn]

Hey Bruce!
While you're checking for an SC marina to winter at try Lady's Island Marina. It's just across the bridge from Beaufort. We spent a winter there as extended cruisers and were not policed about the amount of time we spent on our boat. Telling them you are there for the season should not be an issue. And the food at the restaurant right there is To Die For! Lots of nearby amenities. If the owner is still Tom, it's been a while but feel free to tell him the Lazy Libra encouraged you to visit.
Good luck and safe travels.

 

[CaptTom]

I must be naïve. It seems so simple to me. The problem isn't liveaboards. The problem is derelict boats which take up permanent residence in what should be public waterways.

I think the shoreside property owners are going about this all wrong. They'd get a lot more support from actual boaters if they were to push for anchoring time limits, instead of trying to ban it outright.

 

[Action]

Defining "Derelict" boats may be the problem.
The defination is going to be partly based on looks.
If someone just doesn't like the looks of your boat, reporting the same now becomes interpretation of law enforcement.

It is far easier to write a law or a rule based on functionality or based on some measurable circumstance. And then enforce or not enforce based on community feedback.

Does it float
Is it occupied
Has it moved in X number of days

A land based law would be an abandoned vehicle law.
Is it parked on a public street?
Does it have a current license plate or tabs?
Has it moved in X number of days?
This would all be measurable to a degree that could be argued successfully in court.

Don't like the looks of your boat would be a difficult enforcement.

 

[BoomerSailor]

While this may not be a solution that you would consider, it is an option.
The Harbourage on The Ashley River in downtown Charleston as long as you own the boat slip. (Not common). There are a few for sale. Which I would consider when I am ready. When you aren’t there they will manage your slip for lease as well.

 

[psneeld]

I would be interested in what the legal definition of derelict is.... in my experience and how it is used with boats is derelict = abandoned.

Sometimes used for trashed boats...but way more often with abandoned.

 

[Forever Friday]

“If it were me, I would consider changing anchorages every week or 2. Maybe spend an evening between anchorages in a marina as a transient…”

Only thing wrong with this approach is the cost differential in being a transient vs monthly slip renter. The difference can be staggering.

 

[psneeld]

“If it were me, I would consider changing anchorages every week or 2. Maybe spend an evening between anchorages in a marina as a transient…”

Only thing wrong with this approach is the cost differential in being a transient vs monthly slip renter. The difference can be staggering.

But 2 nights a month in a marina between switching anchorages isn't staggering....

 

[Forever Friday]

“ But 2 nights a month in a marina between switching anchorages isn't staggering.”

You’re correct, of course…my bad. I was thinking about someone splitting time between marinas just to beat a no “liveaboard” policy. I’d definitely be hopping around anchorages…keep ‘em guessing! Lol

 

[CaptTom]

Defining "Derelict" boats may be the problem...

Exactly. I only used the word derelict as a polite way to describe what we all know is the real problem. It would be hard to define legally.

A set time limit would be enforceable (where needed) and clearly definable. It would benefit boaters who are actually navigating, not staking a permanent claim to some patch of water.

I don't think it should matter whether the boat is occupied or not. Unoccupied boats "stored" at anchor are just as bad as, if not worse than, the occupied ones.

 

[psneeld]

Exactly. I only used the word derelict as a polite way to describe what we all know is the real problem. It would be hard to define legally.

A set time limit would be enforceable (where needed) and clearly definable. It would benefit boaters who are actually navigating, not staking a permanent claim to some patch of water.

I don't think it should matter whether the boat is occupied or not. Unoccupied boats "stored" at anchor are just as bad as, if not worse than, the occupied ones.

Actually defining abandoned isn't all that hard from what I think many states are moving to.

If a vessel is not currently registered and the last know person to register it cannot be contacted, it is essentially abandoned. If someone can't be found aboard or with reasonable questioning around the docks/marinas/properties, etc to claim the boat then a court can declare it "abandoned/derelict".

If an owner can be contacted, the dialog will determine what the next step(s) will be.

 

[AquaDestiny]

Just a heads up. A lot of it is in how the question is asked and the ability to read between the lines. Several years ago I was in a similar position and getting similar results. Most marinas can't advertise that they are willing to accept liveaboards but don't actually mind if you are a responsible boater. I talked to one and when I asked the dreaded liveaboard question the lady replied that "No, we do not allow living aboard....however, I cannot legally tell you how much time you can or cannot spend on your boat...." To which I replied gotcha, and thanks. I then spent two and a half happy years in that marina.

 

[DBG8492]

Hey Bruce!
While you're checking for an SC marina to winter at try Lady's Island Marina. It's just across the bridge from Beaufort. We spent a winter there as extended cruisers and were not policed about the amount of time we spent on our boat. Telling them you are there for the season should not be an issue. And the food at the restaurant right there is To Die For! Lots of nearby amenities. If the owner is still Tom, it's been a while but feel free to tell him the Lazy Libra encouraged you to visit.
Good luck and safe travels.

It's not exactly the awesome friendly environment it used to be - at least that's what I understand from those who have left there in the last six months.

I hate to say that because I loved the place and consider Tom a friend - but that is the word from those I know.

It would suck if it's true because the marina itself is awesome - beautiful location,.easy access to grocery and hardware stores, convenient to the city - and the farmers market is one of the best within a couple hundred coastal miles.

Needless to say, I hope my friends were overreacting...

 

[psneeld]

I am not so sure that a lot of marinas casually look the other way with liveaboards, but that depends on the liveaboard impact/telltale signs.

Marinas usually quickly know if you are living aboard.... you are around when nobody else is.

Liveaboards are often the ones using the facilities way more than everyone else, parking, other slip holder input, marina neighbor input, mail/package delivery, sheer amount of "stuff" even if kept on boat fulltime, etc...etc...