Flag etiquette

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
If I wish to fly a state flag, where should it be flown? I've checked Chapmans but no specific mention is made. I do not have a small mast at the bow where club burgees are sometimes flown and I hesitate to use the starboard spreader in case some time in the future I have occasion to fly a national courtesy flag or can I fly the state flag below the courtesy flag?

 

[Keith]

I fly mine on my starboard spreader. I think I remember you're never supposed to fly two flags at the same position, although I've done it with my cocktail and beer flags. ;-)

 

[Forkliftt]

Great question. I would assume that if you fly an American flag and a state flag, the state flag should be placed at a lower point than Old Glory?

 

[rochepoint]

Greetings,
If I wish to fly a state flag, where should it be flown? I've checked Chapmans but no specific mention is made. I do not have a small mast at the bow where club burgees are sometimes flown and I hesitate to use the starboard spreader in case some time in the future I have occasion to fly a national courtesy flag or can I fly the state flag below the courtesy flag?

Found this Flag and Etiquette Committee Flag FAQ

 

[psneeld]

Greetings,
If I wish to fly a state flag, where should it be flown? I've checked Chapmans but no specific mention is made. I do not have a small mast at the bow where club burgees are sometimes flown and I hesitate to use the starboard spreader in case some time in the future I have occasion to fly a national courtesy flag or can I fly the state flag below the courtesy flag?

That's why I like the older Chapman's as the "old customs,courtesies and proceedures (nav, boat handling, etc are seen in a different light).

My USCG OCS copy Ed 52 1976 has on page 470...not direct quotes...

That if not against the law, a state flag can be flown...

if so on a boat with masts, at the mast head in place of the private signal, officers flag or USCGA ensign.

On a mastless vessel, the bow staff in place of a club burgee.

If flown in place of the USCGA ensign, then an officer's flag cannot be flown from the spreader.

From my perspective...when flying a foreign courstesy flag...NO other flags except maybe a club burgee from the bow staff...you really shouldn't fly any other US related flags...just too touchy. If you flew the state flag from the masthead, higher than the courtesy flag...it may be taken poorly, flying the state flag from the spreader below the cforeign courtesy flag might be OK...but it's not suggested to be flown there ever, so I'm nt sure if it is inappropriate.

 

[psneeld]

Great question. I would assume that if you fly an American flag and a state flag, the state flag should be placed at a lower point than Old Glory?

The ONLY place Old Glory should ever be flown on a power boat is from a stern staff or gaff (a possibility would be on the lift line for a boom if a dingy made the stern staff an issue)

So it doesn't matter where all other flags go...there's only "one place of honor" for every flag situation and "Old Glory" should go there or not at all and no other flag should ever be flown from there.

Other may disagree and that's fine...just passing along the customs and courtesies...even in Chapman's the statement is made that no law has been passed compelling the prper etiquette because "It has probably never been contemplated that a loyal citzen would ever do otherwise."

 

[psneeld]

Found this Flag and Etiquette Committee Flag FAQ

Interesting...other than both suggesting don't fly a state flag...they differ a lot on philosophy so I'm guessing the USPS though a little longer and harder on the subject than my 1976 Chapman's (even though he thought long and hard on it for the preceeding 50 years..

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
GREAT answers but still in a bit of a quandary. Mr. Forklift. Evidently on a power vessel the location of greatest honor is at the stern mast thus precluding that "Old Glory" be at the highest point. A courtesy flag flown at the starboard spreader may be higher than the US flag but is not considered a discourtesy to the US flag (or so I understand). Sorry Mr. psneeld, I missed your earlier comment-guess I didn't scroll down enough.
Nothing in what I've been able to read mentions anything about the port spreader. Is is always empty? That's the location I thought of flying the state flag.

 

[Moonstruck]

Greetings,
GREAT answers but still in a bit of a quandary. Mr. Forklift. Evidently on a power vessel the location of greatest honor is at the stern mast thus precluding that "Old Glory" be at the highest point. A courtesy flag flown at the starboard spreader may be higher than the US flag but is not considered a discourtesy to the US flag (or so I understand). Sorry Mr. psneeld, I missed your earlier comment-guess I didn't scroll down enough.
Nothing in what I've been able to read mentions anything about the port spreader. Is is always empty? That's the location I thought of flying the state flag.

Sometimes the owner present or absent flag is flown from the port spreader. Since the state flag is not required and considered a private signal, I see no problem with it on the port spreader. That is if the starboard spreader is occupied with a courtesy or quarantine flag. Have you considered flying it from an antennae?

 

[psneeld]

Greetings,
GREAT answers but still in a bit of a quandary. Mr. Forklift. Evidently on a power vessel the location of greatest honor is at the stern mast thus precluding that "Old Glory" be at the highest point. A courtesy flag flown at the starboard spreader may be higher than the US flag but is not considered a discourtesy to the US flag (or so I understand). Sorry Mr. psneeld, I missed your earlier comment-guess I didn't scroll down enough.
Nothing in what I've been able to read mentions anything about the port spreader. Is is always empty? That's the location I thought of flying the state flag.

More from that USPS site...

Alternative Display Locations

Avoid flying more than one ensign from a single halyard or antenna. On the other hand, when the preferred positions for an organizational burgee or officer flag are not available, you may fly these from spreader halyard, with more than one on a hoist if necessary. In such instances however, you must observe the proper order of precedence. If you must multiple-hoist these flags, no more than one flag of the same type or stature may be flown from the same halyard. Each flag must be senior to the one below it, except that the officer-ion-charge pennant may be placed above the officer flag when it is appropriate to do so. When neither the preferred location nor a spreader halyard is available, a radio antenna may be used. Never fly any other flag on the same halyard as, or on a halyard to starboard of, a courtesy flag

 

[Blue Heron]

One other point, IF your vessel is a US documented vessel, you are required to fly the US Flag. The only flag allowed to fly above the US Ensign is the Church Pennant and only when observing service.

 

[Marin]

RTF--- While people get all wrapped around the axle with flag etiquette I personally don't think it matters as long as you are in compliance--- by which I mean it doesn't attract undue attention from the USCG, Customs, DEA, etc--- with the national ensign. The rest of it is like arguing about how you should knot your tie. Fly stuff, as Eric calls it.

My rule of thumb for this sort of thing is "Is anyone important going to care?" When it comes to burgees and courtesy flags and whatnot, I think the answer is no.

We fly the national ensign from the boom (gaff). The club burgee goes on the jackstaff on the bow pulpit. Everything else--- courtesy flags, etc.--- goes on the starboard spreader. We don't fly a state flag but if we did that's where we'd fly it from.

 

[Moonstruck]

One other point, IF your vessel is a US documented vessel, you are required to fly the US Flag. The only flag allowed to fly above the US Ensign is the Church Pennant and only when observing service.

A lot of flags may be flown higher than the US flag, but not on the same hoist. The USPS ensign may be flown in place of the US flag while in the US but not abroad. The gaff or the stern staff are the positions of honor reserved for the US flag.

Here is Moonstruck in the Bahamas. US flag on the stern staff, Bahamas courtesy flag on the starboard antennae, and club pennant on the bow.

 

[Blue Heron]

<H3>UNITED STATES CODE</H3><H3>TITLE 36</H3><H3>CHAPTER 10</H3>§175. Position and manner of display

The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag's own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.

• (a) The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or as provided in subsection (i) of this section.
• (b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.
• (c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.

 

[Keith]

One other point, IF your vessel is a US documented vessel, you are required to fly the US Flag. The only flag allowed to fly above the US Ensign is the Church Pennant and only when observing service.

I believe the yacht ensign is acceptable in lieu of the US flag.

 

[Blue Heron]

Re: State Flags and the US Ensign from same US Code:

(f) When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag's right.

 

[psneeld]

Re: State Flags and the US Ensign from same US Code:

(f) When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag's right.

Nice...but you keep quoting land based display....not nautical.

Look at any yacht club that knows what it's going...the US Flag is on the gaff...not at the top of the main pole...if it is they are incorrect. The US Flag is at the place of honor, yet geometrically lower than any other flag flown at the top of the main hoist.

Plus I have never found where there is a requirement for documented vessels to fly a flag (at least in US waters), internationally is a different story...there I definitely would want to and be expected to. Do you know the actual law or have a reference?

 

[Blue Heron]

Actually psneeld, the US Code doesn't differentiate between land and water. The display is the same regardless. The law is the law.
Regarding your other question, that US documented vessels fly the Ensign, it was listed on my documentation paperwork. Currently on my boat. When I get a chance I will provide the reference. If your vessel is documented, recommend you take a look at your accompanying paperwork.

 

[Forkliftt]

One other point, IF your vessel is a US documented vessel, you are required to fly the US Flag. The only flag allowed to fly above the US Ensign is the Church Pennant and only when observing service.

Interesting fact about being documented. But of course you will need to prove your point when you get to the boat and can make a copy. When we fly a flag it is Old Glory, from the aft, unless we make a trip to Kemah. The Admiral usually insists on swapping to our Texas flag, also flown aft. (She loves Texas, can't blame her) Won't be making that mistake again!

 

[psneeld]

Actually psneeld, the US Code doesn't differentiate between land and water. The display is the same regardless. The law is the law.
Regarding your other question, that US documented vessels fly the Ensign, it was listed on my documentation paperwork. Currently on my boat. When I get a chance I will provide the reference. If your vessel is documented, recommend you take a look at your accompanying paperwork.

Nothing came with my documentation except my documentation certificate and I see the note about marking but nothing about flags. I am really curios if it is spelled out in writing someplace.

If you think you fly the US Flag from anything but a stern staff with nothing else, from the gaff with nothing else or from the leech of a sailing vessels aftmost sail....OK...and if you don't think theres specific "at least customs followed by the USN, USCG, ACOE, NOAA, Customs, DEA and whoever else is out there these days where they fly the US flag UNIFORMLY...then OK to that also...

Here's something else when seeing where the USN fly it...

In the US, the Navy flag directive says the national flag goes at the truck of a mast with a crosstree and no gaff, and at the gaff of a mast equipped with one. This is also the practice prescribed by the New York Yacht Club Yacht Routine (binding only on the NYYC, but also used by many other clubs) and Chapman's Piloting (a boating manual).

 

[Marin]

Nothing came with my documentation except my documentation certificate and I see the note about marking but nothing about flags. .

Ditto. We've been documented the fourteen years we've owned the boat, the document itself is renewed every year, and there is not a word on it regarding flags, either requirements to show it or where to fly it. The only reference to flags in information about documentation that I've ever read is that documenting a boat ALLOWS the operator to fly the US flag. Nothing about having to.

 

[markpierce]

The courtesy flag should fly from the outermost hoist on the starboard spreader, leaving room for an inboard hoist on the starboard spreader for a state flag (as shown here for the Alaskan flag).

One must be adaptable when flag hoists are limited. Since the Coot has no inner starboard hoist, I'd hoist a state flag on the portside spreader hoist. If not flying a courtesy flag, I'd put the state flag on the starboard hoist.

 

[markpierce]

Flag most recently flown from the Coot's starboard spreader (Fourth of July):

 

[BobH]

If the boat is documented, I believe the proper flag is the Stars and Stripes, not the Yacht Ensign. On our previous sail boat we flew the state flag on the port spreader and the quarantine or courtesy flag on the starboard spreader.

Bob

 

[Blue Heron]

Appears that my documentation only states reference to "First Congress, Act of 1 Sep 1789, ch 11, sec 1, 1 stat. 55" that states "the only vessels entitled to fly the US flag were vessels owned by US Citizens and documented"
Appears a gray area. Some searches turn up required and others state no longer required.

So if any one has definitive answer ?

As for HOW to fly the US flag the US code is pretty specific.

 

[Blue Heron]

Psneeld,
The US Navy flies the ensign from a truck or gaff when equipped or a halyard when not and only when underway The ship will announce "moored, shift colors " when docked and the flag will be flown from the stern and the jack from the bow.

 

[psneeld]

Psneeld,
The US Navy flies the ensign from a truck or gaff when equipped or a halyard when not and only when underway The ship will announce "moored, shift colors " when docked and the flag will be flown from the stern and the jack from the bow.

Exactly...if from the (a) gaff...it's not necessarily above all other flags and certainly not when flown from a stern staff...

I know the pipe...I have a USCG sea service ribbom

Not as sexy as sweepers MAN YOU BROOMS!

 

[Blue Heron]

Exactly...if from the (a) gaff...it's not necessarily above all other flags and certainly not when flown from a stern staff...

I know the pipe...I have a USCG sea service ribbom

Not as sexy as sweepers MAN YOU BROOMS!

Actually it is above all other flags regardless of where it is flown, truck or halyard.
When flown from the stern the US Flag is solitary
At least on every naval vessel I have served.

Now there are instances of exception but pennants and substitutes and burgee all still are flown below the US flag.



An example.

 

[Larry M]

An other part of flag etiquette is to make sure your flag is in good condition. I was a line handler going through the Canal and the advisor made the captain take down Panama's courtesy flag. It was faded and frayed. His comment was flying a flag like that is an insult.

We have also been in countries where the Port Captains requires you to remove their flag at dusk.

 

[psneeld]

The place of honor where the country's national flag should be flown is the stern staff, the gaff, the top of a single pole with no gaff (masthead), or the starboard spreader (if the masthead is not approriate). Only on a single pole should flags ever share the same halyard. The only exception is the church pennant at sea.

It doesn't matter where the other flags are ....above, below, plentiful or non-existent...as long as the place of honor is taken by the country's national flag...a few countries disagree...but the vast majority follow this custom.