General Comments on Tollycraft build quality

[vancouvertechie]

Is there anything really specific that can identify why Tollycraft boats have a good reputation? I’ve heard they have a rep for being “well built” but I’ve never heard of specific things to qualify the “well built” statements.

Tollycraft boats are easy to look at and the majority are very good looking to be sure. But is it the windows, the flare (or lack of it), or some other aspect of appearance. Are they beautiful? If so what are the elements of their beauty .. color and gel-coat shine?

Re their performance what makes them good or not so good. Weight? Narrowness or “nice and wide”.

I’d rather have a 40’ wood Monk boat.
But Tollycraft isn’t the only boat that is well thought of whose positive attributes are not immediately apparent.

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. That's what makes us unique as individuals. But when a certified surveyor says they are well built boats, I tend to listen to the surveyor.

VT

 

[vancouvertechie]

We took delivery late on Friday and she cruised well around 13 knots for our 2 hour voyage from slip to slip.

I was able to do a quick wash before it got too dark and on Sunday the wife and I started pulling the 34 year old original carpet. But so far so good. After the flooring, I will work on a new lithium battery bank after I replace the ME-50 controller. Firmware version 2.8 doesn't natively support Lithium batteries, but version 2.9 does after talking with tech support.

My plan is to replace every wire possible and adhere to ABYC standards. I plan to give it another wash this week and use some Plexus on the strata glas to try to clear up some of the scratches.


VT

 

[Inbreaker]

Greetings Vancouvertechie!
I bought a 94' Tollycraft 45 in Vancouver (the northernmost one) last March, and managed to get it over to Ladysmith and tucked into a boathouse before I had to flee back to Australia. I'll be very interested to hear about your updates and improvements.
Which engines does your beauty have?

 

[Comodave]

We took delivery late on Friday and she cruised well around 13 knots for our 2 hour voyage from slip to slip.

I was able to do a quick wash before it got too dark and on Sunday the wife and I started pulling the 34 year old original carpet. But so far so good. After the flooring, I will work on a new lithium battery bank after I replace the ME-50 controller. Firmware version 2.8 doesn't natively support Lithium batteries, but version 2.9 does after talking with tech support.

My plan is to replace every wire possible and adhere to ABYC standards. I plan to give it another wash this week and use some Plexus on the strata glas to try to clear up some of the scratches.


VT

Pretty boat. Good luck with it.

 

[vancouvertechie]

Greetings Vancouvertechie!
I bought a 94' Tollycraft 45 in Vancouver (the northernmost one) last March, and managed to get it over to Ladysmith and tucked into a boathouse before I had to flee back to Australia. I'll be very interested to hear about your updates and improvements.
Which engines does your beauty have?

Unfortunately, it has the 454's in it. The port side was recently rebuilt but has a rough idle. My wife and I will eventually move to diesel if we can find a deal in the next few years.

We just received our new dinghy and replacement toilets. We are almost done pulling the carpet and thousands of staples. Next will be sanding and filling before the new floor goes down.

VT

 

[rslifkin]

Unfortunately, it has the 454's in it. The port side was recently rebuilt but has a rough idle. My wife and I will eventually move to diesel if we can find a deal in the next few years.

We just received our new dinghy and replacement toilets. We are almost done pulling the carpet and thousands of staples. Next will be sanding and filling before the new floor goes down.

VT

454s are thirsty, but they're pretty durable as long as you don't run them too hard. Make sure they turn 4200+ at WOT with a clean bottom and don't cruise them above 3400 and they'll return a good lifespan.

 

[vancouvertechie]

454s are thirsty, but they're pretty durable as long as you don't run them too hard. Make sure they turn 4200+ at WOT with a clean bottom and don't cruise them above 3400 and they'll return a good lifespan.

I agree. Our plan is to cruise between 10-15 knots running between Anacortes and the San Juan Islands this summer. If I can get her ready for the trip up north at the start of summer.

My main concern is getting the fuel sensors replace for the Fireboy units along with the high bilge alarm and a new blowers.

VT

 

[Art]

We enjoy the heck out of twin 350 cid, 255 hp Mercruisers in our 34' Tolly tri cabin.

Quiet and fairly affordable to run. Plenty of power for planing at 16 to 17 knots. Sweet to cruise at 6.5 to 7 knots [hull spd is 7.58].

 

[sunchaser]

I've a friend with the Tolly 45 that had the Crusader gassers. He dropped in a pair of Cummins 5.9s. That made it into a fantastic long distance cruiser. Keep the 45 at 8-9 knots if you're doing long passages, 15 knots will eat a lot of fuel.

 

[vancouvertechie]

Yeah, I would love to go with either a 6 cylinder Yanmar or Lugger. I think 10 knots or slower would be fine. Plus more room in the engine room would be ideal.

Really not looking for more power. I just want to keep it simple.

VT

 

[rslifkin]

If I were going for a diesel repower in my boat, I'd swap the 454s for Cummins QSBs most likely. I'd probably end up with similar total power, but more at max continuous. And much lower fuel burn.


Personally, with the 454s, my fast cruise is about 17 kts (3300 rpm / ~30 gph), my slow cruise is around 6.5 - 6.7 kts in flat water (1300 rpm / ~5 gph).

 

[Art]

I've a friend with the Tolly 45 that had the Crusader gassers. He dropped in a pair of Cummins 5.9s. That made it into a fantastic long distance cruiser. Keep the 45 at 8-9 knots if you're doing long passages, 15 knots will eat a lot of fuel.

Have you idea of the switchover cost?

 

[rslifkin]

Have you idea of the switchover cost?

I ballparked it on my boat out of curiosity. I came up with somewhere in the $120k range. Figure $80k for a pair of QSB 5.9 remans, new transmissions. Another $10 - 12k for a new generator. Then all of the install related costs. Possibly new shafts and props, although if I went with the 380hp and 1.77:1 reduction ZF280A trans I might not even need a re-prop according to the calculators (and shaft size would be ok as well). And in my case, for the fuel tanks I'd just be drain, clean, inspect and go, as my tanks already have (plugged) return ports in them.

The other good fitting option would be the Yanmar 8LV V8s, but they're likely more expensive (but lighter, they weigh the same as 454s). Costs for your 34 would be a bit lower, as you don't need as much HP and would likely spend a bit less on engines and transmissions.

 

[Art]

I ballparked it on my boat out of curiosity. I came up with somewhere in the $120k range. Figure $80k for a pair of QSB 5.9 remans, new transmissions. Another $10 - 12k for a new generator. Then all of the install related costs. Possibly new shafts and props, although if I went with the 380hp and 1.77:1 reduction ZF280A trans I might not even need a re-prop according to the calculators (and shaft size would be ok as well). And in my case, for the fuel tanks I'd just be drain, clean, inspect and go, as my tanks already have (plugged) return ports in them.

The other good fitting option would be the Yanmar 8LV V8s, but they're likely more expensive (but lighter, they weigh the same as 454s). Costs for your 34 would be a bit lower, as you don't need as much HP and would likely spend a bit less on engines and transmissions.

Thanks for providing estimate. Would take a bunch of fuel savings to come anywhere near that "$120K range" of cost!

 

[rslifkin]

Thanks for providing estimate. Would take a bunch of fuel savings to come anywhere near that "$120K range" of cost!

Agreed. I figured something like 3000 hours assuming 50/50 fast and slow use. But if you wear out some engines or a generator anyway, needing to replace them either way makes the extra cost of the conversion not quite as bad.

 

[stubones99]

Yeah, I would love to go with either a 6 cylinder Yanmar or Lugger. I think 10 knots or slower would be fine. Plus more room in the engine room would be ideal.

Really not looking for more power. I just want to keep it simple.

VT

The problem with switching to diesel engines is weight, on top of the costs...
Diesels can weigh lots more than a gas engine, and when you're done, you'll have to re-ballast it to get it back in trim otherwise you'll be stern heavy.

Yanmar's are the smallest and lightest diesels out there, but I consider them shorter hour engines compared to Cats or Cummins, or Luggers (John Deere, etc). I know a guy who bought a pair of remanufactured Cat engines and told the boat mechanic that he wanted to swap out some 454 engines with the bigger Cat engines... The mechanic said "Your boat would sink if you loaded that much weight in there..." Each cat engine was about 4x what a full 454 engine weighed.

So, use it for what it was designed to do and when you're ready for diesels, trade it in for a diesel engine powered boat.

 

[vancouvertechie]

Thank you for the input, but I have to disagree on the weights. In addition, Tollycraft 44's did come with diesel engines as an option and I think they are doing just fine ballast wise.

Mercruiser 7.4 liter comes in around 1100 lbs.
3208 Cats V-8 comes in around 1800 lbs. Split the weight in the middle between the 375HP and 450HP models.

The engines themselves sit midship right at the salon windows. That was by design as the windows can be removed and the engines hoisted out.

VT

 

[ghost]

Thank you for the input, but I have to disagree on the weights. In addition, Tollycraft 44's did come with diesel engines as an option and I think they are doing just fine ballast wise.



Mercruiser 7.4 liter comes in around 1100 lbs.

3208 Cats V-8 comes in around 1800 lbs. Split the weight in the middle between the 375HP and 450HP models.



The engines themselves sit midship right at the salon windows. That was by design as the windows can be removed and the engines hoisted out.



VT

Lots of them with heavy diesels. No idea where the notion otherwise came from.

 

[stubones99]

Thank you for the input, but I have to disagree on the weights. In addition, Tollycraft 44's did come with diesel engines as an option and I think they are doing just fine ballast wise.

Mercruiser 7.4 liter comes in around 1100 lbs.
3208 Cats V-8 comes in around 1800 lbs. Split the weight in the middle between the 375HP and 450HP models.

The engines themselves sit midship right at the salon windows. That was by design as the windows can be removed and the engines hoisted out.

VT

I didn't say it could not be done, but "You would have to reballast the boat to get it in trim" So, move the engine bunks forward to shift the weight forward, new transmissions, shafting, etc. and them work with ballast to keep it from being stern heavy.

 

[rslifkin]

For the diesel repower ideas, weight is part of what drove the engine choices I looked at. My gas 454s should be somewhere around 1000 lbs (excluding transmission). A Yanmar 8LV is about the same. A Cummins QSB 5.9 is about 1350 lbs, so 700 lbs more for a pair of them.

Transmission weight is pretty much the same at 150 - 170 lbs for any relevant choice, so I left that out of the comparison. In my case, the existing gas Onan generator is heavy enough that I'd easily be able to replace it at the same or less weight, as only a few similar capacity diesel options are actually heavier.

Even with the heavier Cummins plus whatever ancillary stuff, you'd be adding less than 1000 lbs. That should be pretty manageable.

 

[Art]

Each of our 1977 Tolly's twin 350 ci, 255 hp Mercruisers weigh 862 lbs. That's only 1,724 power plant pounds for 510 hp. Not too shabby!!

They run perfectly and are good power rating for making our Tolly perform well.

IF - I find need to replace/replenish them. I'd haul both out and rebuild pretty much to specs; with just a bit of upgrades to add a bit more hp. Maybe up to 300 hp. each! My rule of thumb is to never have gas engine's hp. out number its cid. 300 hp. for 350 cid fits well inside those limits. I have a 325 hp. 350 cid in my 1 ton 4wd pickup. She pulls big trailers loaded with backhoe and/or other equipment up steep hills. Two of those powerful 350 cid gassers in our 34' Tolly would make her scream!

Representing my own diy effort; with a bit of hired assistance: I figure [including all the general clean-up and replacement needs that will probably be found in engine compartment] that those twins engines could be hauled out, rebuilt and replaced for somewhere in the range of $13K to $15K... maybe even somewhat lower.

In comparison to $80K to $100K for changing over to [i.e. spending the time and effort to change things over for putting in] diesels... well... there just is NO Comparison!

Happy Boat-Repower Daze!! - Art

PS: About a decade ago ago... on what was then the Tollycraft Forum... I recall posts about a Tolly tri cabin [just like ours] being refurbished stem to stern; including two new diesels. As I recall, the total cost was in the $175K range. Also as I recall having heard - that boat was several years later for sale at $70K. Don't know if it sold. Anyway... You Do The Math!

 

[vancouvertechie]

Quick update on the Tolly. Almost got all of the carpet and staples out. Currently doing a template and then look at sanding and filling in some spots on the floor.

My wife did some painting of the walls and its turning out pretty good. We purchased a 11.5 West Marine dinghy and I am configuring it for remote setup. Gratefully the hide a lift davit system works and I am very happy.

VT

 

[Art]

Great!!

 

[vancouvertechie]

Another update on the old Tolly.

Got the floor laid out and waiting for some warmer weather to do the epoxy and heavy roller. So far I am liking Lonseal and its my first time using the product and overall the wife is happy and that's what matters most.

Then I will move to the master stateroom and get that ready.

Some photos of the progress. Slow, but moving steadily.

VT

 

[Art]

Nice!

 

[BradBeck]

Hi VT:

Hoping to learn more of your updates. I’m thinking about a Tolly as my next boat after having owned a Cobalt for several years.

Thank you,
Brad

 

[Art]

Hi VT:

Hoping to learn more of your updates. I’m thinking about a Tolly as my next boat after having owned a Cobalt for several years.

Thank you,
Brad

Hi Brad

I'm not trying to take the spotlight off VT... however... if you have Tolly questions feel free to PM me. Tollycraft was a great boat builder... is a great boat!

Art

 

[vancouvertechie]

It's all good as we are talking about boats, water and Tollycraft.

Good stuff. I will try to have an update this weekend on some of the work being done.

VT

 

[vancouvertechie]

Doing some more misc. work on the Tollycraft as the wife says we only have 6 months left before we take it up north. Here is the salon before and after.

 

[vancouvertechie]

Here is the dinette area. My wife painted the walls and we removed some of the purple padding along with new cushions. I plan to install teak around the table to finish it out a bit. Oh, and I need to replace the light and the curtains.