Genny in the forepeak?

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Airstream345

Airstream345

Guru
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
1,016
Location
United States
Vessel Name
FORTITUDE
Vessel Make
Kadey Krogen 54-8
The boat we're looking at has an Onan generator installed in the forepeak under the v-birth. Strange since the ER is roomy (twin Lehmans and lots' of space aft).

I'm curious about this installation, pros and cons, etc. Off the top of my head I'd be concerned about CO first, noise at anchor second (for the poor souls sleeping up front).

On the other hand, guest won't stay too long ;)

Is anyone else setup like this of have insight as to why the mfg or yard would do this?

Thanks in advance!
 
Sorry, but I'd run from that boat. All fumes and CO from the genset are going to drift or be blown back over and through the boat.
 
Maybe the seller can tell you why. Unless he/she inherited it too.
I`m not sure I`d even go to survey on it. I bet it`s been hard to sell, it could be cheap.
 
Could only think of one reason to place in the bow and thats space constraints!

There a lot of reasons how ever not to, such as

1) Noise and fumes and exhaust outlet (if in the bow) allowing fumes to run aft
2) Long runs of main trunk wiring and fuel lines etc
3) Possible weight issues where you dont want them and impact issues/mounts
4) Correct ventilation (heat issues)

Generally a bad idea all around
 
It could be a plus - it makes the boat harder to sell and likely reduces the selling price. It wont be that big a deal to move it to the ER after purchase. But, whoever did it might have had some other 'good ideas' that will need to be assessed.
 
Even on the hook , most boats ventilate from aft to fwd.

Having the noisemaker in the bow is a great use of unused space , and if the ride is rough the noisemaker can take it.

Unusual , but try it out before using the sledgehammer .

One of the best engineered MS cruisers (about 55-60ft) had the main engine forward (DD 6-71) as well as the noisemaker.The engine clutched to a mechanical windlass , and truck style drive shafts were used to power the prop.

The CPP setup had its own thrust bearing so there was almost zero extra expense for the build.

Room in the engine room was excellent , one could stand next to the engine for service. A forward hatch made venting a delight.

2 trips around , being sold to experienced folks for the 3rd go round.

The space below was beyond magnificent with no room taken from the hull for the Hell Hole.

This of course was a custom build , but the noisemaker up front might just work.
 
On large boats with multiple generators, it's common to have one installed in a space away from the engineroom so when working there is no noise.
In most yachts, a bow location for the generator puts it far away from the owners cabin. A wet exhaust near the waterline isn't going to send fumes aboard in most cases. Lot of commercial fishing boats have their engines as far forward as possible to make more space available for a fish hold.
 
I will third that on larger boats it is common...so some concerns are mild at best.

Then is it gas or diesel...the answer somewhat affects CO, smell and noise concerns, particularly on a smaaler boat, yet all 3 can be addressed to a point.

Without seeing the actual layout and in operation, I would be hard pressed to give it a thumbs up or down.
 
FF said:
Even on the hook , most boats ventilate from aft to fwd.

Having the noisemaker in the bow is a great use of unused space , and if the ride is rough the noisemaker can take it.

Unusual , but try it out before using the sledgehammer .

One of the best engineered MS cruisers (about 55-60ft) had the main engine forward (DD 6-71) as well as the noisemaker.The engine clutched to a mechanical windlass , and truck style drive shafts were used to power the prop.

The CPP setup had its own thrust bearing so there was almost zero extra expense for the build.

Room in the engine room was excellent , one could stand next to the engine for service. A forward hatch made venting a delight.

2 trips around , being sold to experienced folks for the 3rd go round.

The space below was beyond magnificent with no room taken from the hull for the Hell Hole.

This of course was a custom build , but the noisemaker up front might just work.
Click to expand...

Would love to hear further re your comment(Even on the hook , most boats ventilate from aft to fwd.)

Every boat i believe i have been on is designed to ventilate from forward to aft, hence hatch's mainly open forward, dorades open/face forward, mainly all vents are towards the rear of vessel or transom, namely most/all vessels lie into the wind from the bow (unless no wind and adverse current),
 
Lepke said:
On large boats with multiple generators, it's common to have one installed in a space away from the engineroom so when working there is no noise.
In most yachts, a bow location for the generator puts it far away from the owners cabin. A wet exhaust near the waterline isn't going to send fumes aboard in most cases. Lot of commercial fishing boats have their engines as far forward as possible to make more space available for a fish hold.
Click to expand...

While i agree it's common in some larger vessels (and in fact law in some commercial applications) to have a third generator and panel(can be a battery bank set up) in a different location, we are i thought talking about specifically the bow! , there are numerous regulations regarding fitting that third generator in a bow position some of which are obvious such as,

1) Must be aft of the collision bulkhead
2) Above the uppermost continuous deck
3) Emergency sources must be installed in position such that they are unlikely to be damaged or affected by any incident

All of which usually mean it's not in the bow,Whilst some fishing vessels and more modern azimuth vessels do infact utilize forward of midships locations for Engine room and generator set up's it's hardly in the bow where thrusters/lockers and such like normally exist.
 
The only other reason i can think of is weight balance fore-to-aft, if the twins are located fairly well aft to keep the bow from raising... but this is usually less of an issue with what appears to be a non-planing boat...
 
This is the trawler forum. However; many cruising catamarans power and sail have engines beneath the aft berths and AC generators forward of the accommodations and inside forward berths. Space is where you find it. Extra staterooms get turned into closets or garages. No reason an AC generator has to be located in the engine room. Might actually be happier in a cool dry place. Like so many things on boats it all depends...
 
I see nothing to gain by putting the generator in the foreward part of a 40’ boat, unless it was the only available place.

Gotta be as reason it’s there though. It would have been easier it seems to put it in the laszarette or engine space, so ease of installation was not the driving force
 
Man I love communities like this. I woke up this morning to find lot's of replies to my original question from last night. Thank you!

As an aside: already this site reminds me of the Airstream forum I used to belong to when we had our 1986 345. I could post a question and a pic and within hours had experienced answers from folks who've 'been there, done that and had the t-shirt'. It was like having a group of experts with you for every nut and bolt. Just awesome.

OK, so agreed that's unusual which is why I posted. In my opinion it doesn't DQ the boat but it has been a topic I've discussed at length with the surveyor and diesel mechanic to investigate. I've also been able to connect with a few other Bluewater 40 owners (again thanks to this amazing site) and learned that the forepeak was where the optional extra tankage would've been located (water and/or fuel) so perhaps this installation was a weight and balance decision. That said, no other owner I spoke with had their genny located outside of the ER.

In any case we're moving forward with the survey and will know more next week.
 
Airstream345 said:
In any case we're moving forward with the survey and will know more next week.
Click to expand...

Guess you can discuss it with the owner/broker/surveyor.
Think about relocating it to the ER. Might get a price on reloading it too.
 
My guess is it's there because rather than invest in a sound shield, some PO wanted it as far away from the master stateroom as possible.
 
George, you are likely correct. There is no sound shield on it.

One of the items on the mechanical survey is an estimate to relocate. There is plenty of room in the ER.
 
Airstream345,
You are not yet married to this boat.
Remember, there will always be another boat, maybe even better.
 
The vessel is designed by Bill Garden. BG is a legend as are his boats. If the genset location was set up by him, I'd be patient as to relocation and see how it performs, heck it is only 3 KW. There is a lot to like about this vessel from pictures, but devil always in details. Full displacement, solid FRP hull, twin Lehmans, diesel heat - what a find. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
sunchaser said:
The vessel is designed by Bill Garden. BG is a legend as are his boats. If the genset location was set up by him, I'd be patient as to relocation and see how it performs, heck it is only 3 KW. There is a lot to like about this vessel from pictures, but devil always in details. Full displacement, solid FRP hull, twin Lehmans, diesel heat - what a find. Good luck and keep us posted.
Click to expand...



Here here.

Bill Garden designs are sought after for a reason. Instead of a Frankenstein redesign by committee how about we look into it with a surveyor first. Damn thing looks to have functioned fine without a forum redesign for almost 40 years.

As to 40 foot long boats with forward generators. Anyone ever hear of a Sea Ray Sun Dancer before? Majority of their gasoline generators exhaust near the waterline about 5' aft of the bow thruster.

Nice salty looking boat. [emoji1303][emoji1303]
 
To be a legend, generally speaking, you gotta be dead. We might never know why he specified the small generator's location be forward.
It's not much of a generator.... maybe forward for weight distribution?
The 3KW generators of today are much smaller and weigh less.
Someone mentioned, the forepeak often housed either an additional water tank or fuel tank. That would suggest the generator was located elsewhere, perhaps the engine room or maybe no generator at all?

How many house batteries and is there a significant inverter system?
Perhaps, there is a cruise generator on an engine shaft?

They are beautiful boats!!!
 
Last edited:
CPseudonym said:
Here here.

Bill Garden designs are sought after for a reason. Instead of a Frankenstein redesign by committee how about we look into it with a surveyor first. Damn thing looks to have functioned fine without a forum redesign for almost 40 years.

As to 40 foot long boats with forward generators. Anyone ever hear of a Sea Ray Sun Dancer before? Majority of their gasoline generators exhaust near the waterline about 5' aft of the bow thruster.

Nice salty looking boat. [emoji1303][emoji1303]
Click to expand...
If you purchase the boat I would run it for a year before even considering moving the Gen. I am betting it will still be in the fore peak when you sell it. :)

Beautiful boat.
 
Easting said:
If you purchase the boat I would run it for a year before even considering moving the Gen. I am betting it will still be in the fore peak when you sell it. :)

Beautiful boat.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I've learned over the years not to be too hasty and making changes to anything that's basically "working".

That said, we're certainly willing to address issues of safety or reliability if necessary (and within enough reason to continue the purchase)

Looking forward to the survey and reporting back.
 
Good luck with your survey.These are some really nice heavy built trawlers .
Some friends of ours own the same make trawler but with single engine . They brought it on it's on bottom from San Diego and then did the Loop . It's also for sale now on YW .
 
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