Grand Banks 42

[GB42]

Hi everyone,

This my first post here and I'm considering buying a 1964 Grand Banks 42 that i looked at. Owner says it was the last wooden hull (i was under the impression that Grand Banks went to fiberglass in 1963). Any thoughts? Does anyone know a survivor they would recommend (boat is in Los Angeles, CA)?

 

[BruceK]

That`s almost 60 years old! From other posts I thought the wood>glass changeover was around 1973. Doubtless autocorrect is responsible for "surveyor" appearing as "survivor", but it seems apt for age.
There have been vigorous if not rancorous TF discussions recently about aged wooden boats,it`s worth searching for them. One was started by member "garbler" and could be helpful.

 

[fgarriso]

Welcome Aboard !

 

[Slowmo]

Do you have the dates wrong, do you mean 1974? The first GB was the 36' first introduced in 1965 with the 42 following a year later. I believe the GB42 moved to FG hulls in 1973 However I'm sure that there were both wood and FG in 1973.

If you haven't owned a wood boat before you should make sure you know where you can get a good shipwright to do repairs, things like replacing planks if needed. You'll probably want a surveyor well skilled in wooden boats, which is becoming less common.

 

[GB42]

Yes, it's a 74, i don't know why i typed 1963 and 1964..

 

[GB42]

I also just found out that California marinas are not taking wooden boats, which means the boat is stuck where it is..

 

[GB42]

Anyone know a surveyor who knows wooden Grand Banks boats that they would recommend?

 

[PM]

Proceed with extreme caution! The pitfalls are many and expensive.

pete

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. It can be a tough haul, literally, with a wooden boat. Finding a marina for a slip, finding a yard to haul it and getting insurance can be difficult and isn’t going to get easier but it will get more and more difficult as time goes by. And then finding someone that is knowledgeable about repairing a wooden boat may be tough. I know some will say it is fine to get a woodie, but make sure you go into it with your eyes wide open. Do some due diligence before you commit to buy. Check for marinas and yards. Check for insurance. Check your wallet for a plethora of money to be spent on the hull if it needs any work.

 

[Nomad Willy]

This is what one would expect.
A forum with near 100% FG boats talking about how good/bad a wood boat would be.
If it was a wood boat forum I’d bet the responses would be about 180 degrees.

It may help the would be buyer more if the discussion was about the GB42 being one of the very few under powered rec trawlers one is likely to find. Several profound advantages like a relatively light boat and good low fuel burn numbers if not overdriven.

 

[Comodave]

Are you saying that if this was a predominantly woodie boat forum that would change the availability of slips for woodies, or make insurance more available? The availability of slips and insurance doesn’t change just because most of us have fiberglass boats. It is what it is. Wooden boats are getting tough to deal with logistically.

And as to how the boat drives really doesn’t matter if you can’t find a slip, insurance or someone with the necessary skills to work on it.

What I am trying to say is go into it with your eyes open to the realities of owning a wooden boat. I didn’t say don’t buy it.

 

[mvweebles]

If this were a wooden boat forum, there'd be chatter about the one yard in Wimington (CA) that has a railway and still hauls woodies, or how there's the one marina in such-and-such that welcomes woodies. Or how Hemmings has an insurance affiliation for oddball boats.

Point being is that there are certain facts about ownership of woodies. Not opinion but facts about owning one. In the past 6 months I've seen three woodies from SoCal in Ensenada who came down because they couldn't get hauled in SoCal. One was a DIY guy so clearly didn't come for cheap labor.

Comodave didn't give an unusually biased opinion, he summarized the state of the marine world for woodies.

BTW- if there's a TF-like forum for woodies, please let us know.

Peter

 

[Nomad Willy]

Proceed with extreme caution! The pitfalls are many and expensive.

pete

Pitfalls on FG boats are many and expensive too … less so but overall they are probably much the same. Of the top if a fire was to start in my boat I’d much rather it be wood. Doing structural repairs most of us would do better working w wood. But there’s hard to do FG work and wood work too. Leaks are worse on a wood boat but generally not much trouble to fix … just time consuming.

But when it comes to the pleasures of owning the boat wood has a huge advantage starting w very noticeable lack of noise. When you go for many many hours underway w a large diesel engine that feature could easily win a skipper over. Cruising the wood boat typically makes noises of a softer less harsh nature. With a FG boat you’d probably be inclined to ask if the boat had much sound insulation. Speaking of noise you could probably make a FG boat about equal to a wood boat but sound reducing insulation is not cheap and you’d need a lot of it.

But I think everyone knows painting and varnishing is a big job and is not something one can ignore as mildew and wood rot will take over. I’ve known families to make quick work of it tho.

When thinking about wood boats I can say (at my age) if I was to have a new boat built and had the money it would be wood. I could easily make it last 40 yrs and I won’t last even half that long.

 

[BruceK]

While I don`t understand the disconnect in the OP`s posts 6 & 7, is anyone going to suggest(if one exists) the surveyor the OP seeks?

 

[GB42]

What i liked about this boat is that the engine room, engines, transmission, shaft seals all look relatively clean. Plus the interior looks nice. I understand the need to proceed with caution and to me that means finding an experienced surveyor. The seller said he changed the fuel pumps and injectors turning his Lehman 120s into Lehman Super 145s (?). Anyway, it turned out the marinas in Long Beach will take the boat as long as it has a good survey. I need to figure out insurance, haul out, shipyards, hull repair service available in the area. The other question on my mind is whether i will be able to sell it when the time comes eventually. There are actually 3 wooden GB 42 within a few miles in this area.

 

[Insequent]

There are wooden boat experts in Washington State, eg Port Townsend. You may need to fly one down from there.

You could also ask your planned insurer's who they have on their list of approved surveyors bearing in mind that its a woodie.

And I'd try and talk to the owners of the other 3 woodies in your area that you mentioned. They will know of people who are able to do whatever is needed.

 

[Comodave]

What i liked about this boat is that the engine room, engines, transmission, shaft seals all look relatively clean. Plus the interior looks nice. I understand the need to proceed with caution and to me that means finding an experienced surveyor. The seller said he changed the fuel pumps and injectors turning his Lehman 120s into Lehman Super 145s (?). Anyway, it turned out the marinas in Long Beach will take the boat as long as it has a good survey. I need to figure out insurance, haul out, shipyards, hull repair service available in the area. The other question on my mind is whether i will be able to sell it when the time comes eventually. There are actually 3 wooden GB 42 within a few miles in this area.

I believe he is referring to the 135 Lehman. I haven’t heard of a 145 but there may be one. Best to ask Brian at American Diesel.

Yes, you will be able to sell it, the question is at what price. But if you can figure out the logistics and want to roll the dice, get as good a survey as possible and see what it says. Good luck.

 

[slowgoesit]

What i liked about this boat is that the engine room, engines, transmission, shaft seals all look relatively clean. Plus the interior looks nice. I understand the need to proceed with caution and to me that means finding an experienced surveyor. The seller said he changed the fuel pumps and injectors turning his Lehman 120s into Lehman Super 145s (?). Anyway, it turned out the marinas in Long Beach will take the boat as long as it has a good survey. I need to figure out insurance, haul out, shipyards, hull repair service available in the area. The other question on my mind is whether i will be able to sell it when the time comes eventually. There are actually 3 wooden GB 42 within a few miles in this area.

The FL 120 recommended changing the oil in the injector pump housing every 50 hours, although some people go longer, while the oil change interval on the engine is 200 hours.

The point of this post is that I don't believe that changing the "fuel pump" as the seller stated is going to change the oil change interval for the injector pump.

Note: Lehman DID make a SP140 (Super 140). Maybe that is what the seller is referring to?

 

[GB42]

The FL 120 recommended changing the oil in the injector pump housing every 50 hours, although some people go longer, while the oil change interval on the engine is 200 hours.

The point of this post is that I don't believe that changing the "fuel pump" as the seller stated is going to change the oil change interval for the injector pump.

Note: Lehman DID make a SP140 (Super 140). Maybe that is what the seller is referring to?

Yes, maybe that's what he said, Super 140. I guess if the only differences between the 120 and Super 140 were the pump and injectors then he would be right. I don't know much about these engines besides that they should last forever with proper care and maintenance.

 

[Slowmo]

In the Seattle area Lee Ehrheart surveyed our old wood boat a couple of times (http://havornmarineservices.com)...not in your area though.

As to wood boats there are advantages and disadvantages. I moved from wood to FG just a few years ago. It was getting harder to find boat yards who had good wood boat shiprights. But wood has advantages, first is it is a much quieter, warmer material than glass. On the GB, the wood versions had much less problem with the teak decks than the FG versions. But keep in mind that wood requires annual maintenance, mainly the paint needs to be kept in good repair top and bottom. In a FG boat lack of good antifouling paint will allow weeds to grow. On a wood boat marine worms can eat up the bottom.

 

[guy with a boat]

For a surveyor, I would call Bunker Hill in Newport Beach. He is a highly experienced and respected guy. He will tell you if he is the right guy to survey that boat and, if not, you can trust his recommendation. Lots of experience and knowledge.

 

[BruceK]

Lehman made the 6cyl engine in 120 and 135 hp guise. Not 140, AFAIK. I believe the 135 overcame the need for frequent changes of injector pump oil. My 120 Manual said every 200hrs, someone (Marin) had one that said 50hrs, I settled on 100. There were other improvements (as well as the scintillating +15hp!) but note, 135 head studs are not to be retensioned.
Good luck/management with the survey and purchase.

 

[Comodave]

Bob Smith said change the injection pump oil at 50 hours. And if it looked good, not diesel diluted, then gradually increase the change interval until it starts becoming diluted. Then back off on the hours. He said each 120 was different and would require oil changes differently. One guy in the class said his twin 120s were different, one had to be changed at 50 but the other one could go 100.

 

[Steve1.0]

Any pictures?

 

[pbsurf]

I am happy with the survey of my 1972 GB42 performed by Hans Anderson who is in Lompoc CA. When I was looking at buying Inara in 2017, I was fortunate to have access to 5 previous surveys, including a 2012 survey Anderson performed. Thought Anderson's work was the most thorough so I contacted him. In 2012, he pulled screws from the bottom to check for wasting, found none and included a picture of the screws in the report. Although the survey did not include engine and generator testing, obvious maintenance to the Lehman cooling systems was noted. I needed the survey in order to get a slip and insurance. The marina asked for an additional $500 deposit because my boat is wood. Not a big deal. My insurance is only liability. In hindsight, I would have had Anderson pull screws again in order to get full insurance coverage. Good luck!

 

[slowgoesit]

Lehman made the 6cyl engine in 120 and 135 hp guise. Not 140, AFAIK. I believe the 135 overcame the need for frequent changes of injector pump oil. My 120 Manual said every 200hrs, someone (Marin) had one that said 50hrs, I settled on 100. There were other improvements (as well as the scintillating +15hp!) but note, 135 head studs are not to be retensioned.
Good luck/management with the survey and purchase.

Bruce,

Some info on the FL line of engines below, including the SP140. I'd never heard of the FL SP140 either until I started researching the "145" that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I learn something new everyday!

Lehman produced and marketed the Lehman SD120 (Standard 120) & SP135 (Super 135) marine engines from 1982 to 1991± and later the SP140 (Super 140) by marinizing new 380 cubic inch displacement Ford 2725 (ESD-662) base engines.

Full webpage here: https://everythingaboutboats.org/lehman-sd120-sp135/

 

[Exctyengr]

Wooden Boats, GB's in particular

This string of responses hits most of the highlights of wooden boat ownership pro and con. I agree with most of the remarks about marina's, insurance, shipwrights and the like. And most of the issues will be exacerbated as the wooden fleet ages. To the comments previously opined, I would add the following: I owned and loved a wooden boat for many years. I found that the maintenance of a wooden boat, especially in SoCal to be not a whole lot different than the glass boats that I have owned. Varnish is not a function of hull material. The major differences are that wooden boats need to be painted periodically that's expensive. FG boats need to be polished that's a PITA but not especially expensive. Wooden boats need constant maintenance and deferred maintenance is a serious no - no. Without constant attention, a wooden boat will quickly bio-degrade.
GB's have excellent build quality, are usually kept up by their owners, and SoCal is a benign climate.
So, do an inspection (Check out the site "Marine Survey 101" for a checklist). Do your do diligence and good luck.

 

[MonarchBeacher]

Wood Boat Surveyor

I just sold a 32 Grand Banks that was wood. I used Basin Marine in Newport
Beach as they were familiar with the vessel. Speak with Derrick.For the survey, the buyer used Bill Trenkle from Todd & Associates (619-226-1895), Inc. I would also contact Bunker Hill @ 949-646-3038 ( be sure to get Bunker, older guy) or Kells Christian @ 619-223-7380. As a broker, I've worked with all 3 and if I were purchasing the boat you are looking at, I'd pay one of these 3.
You can PM me for more info.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

If this were in Maine or the PNW, where timber is common, and so are those who build, work on and survey them. SoCal is a completely different environment, and not especially timber friendly.


I managed a boat yard that specialized in timber boat repair (and construction of cold-molded vessels). We had a contingent of regular owners who brought their vessels to us, and we had very capable shipwrights who could make a chisel sing, but they are rare.

Every once in a while a customer would come in who was new to timber vessel ownership, the learning curve was often steep and costly, they were often drawn in by the romance, the seeming low cost and the claims of "wood is warmer", or it "feels better in a seaway". While some of these may be true, the reality of ownership was anything but romantic.

Saying you should go into this with your eyes open is like saying you should be very careful when walking over the backs of crocodiles. Your eyes couldn't be open wide enough, and if you have no experience in timber vessel ownership, then you have no idea what you are getting into and what to look for.

I think your first order of business should be to determine if you can get insurance. If not, end of discussion.

Beyond that, any 60 year old vessel would be a huge concern unless you are an extremely capable do it yourselfer. For a timber vessel, I would double that warning. if you haven't owned timber, you really should not leap into ownership with a vessel of this sort.

Apologies for raining on your parade, but having seen this scenario before, my instinct is you would regret this decision.

 

[Dirk Buttjes]

Our GB 42 is hull number 312 built in 1973.
And.she is a woody. BTW Tahini is currently for sale at $135,000 CAN. In Vancouver BC.
She is in pristine condition having been taken care of in one family. Moving to a Europa.
I can send you some pictures.