Delta Riverat
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,070
- Location
- Stockton
- Vessel Name
- Dream Catcher
- Vessel Make
- 1979 Island Gypsy 44 Flush Aft Deck
He can't fail. He's a Hollywood director.
Yet by the grace of God go I...
I look at these type of videos as being a great opportunity to post what could have been different but not an occasion to make judgement on the captain.
I'm not digging all of the harsh judgement.
The whole grounding was basically on video. They went to a restaurant for lunch, tied up to a mooring buoy, took the dinghy to shore and within a few minutes the boat plus mooring buoy were following them, crashing on the shore. The mooring buoy simply broke loose.It is hard for me to get very interested in these internet "complaints" or "advisories".... but they all give me tidbits of info that shape how I deal with situations in the future.
Unless they are tied into a long running source of information that describes each side of the story and give numerous sources of amplifying information, really hard to make any concrete determinations.
Every accident investigator knows that statements form the participants are often full of omissions or errors. Even witness statements are full of errors. It usually takes massive amounts of data input to barely figure out what really happened.
I do love the fact that the more controversial this guy makes his videos, it is more likely that they will get more hits and he will make more money. He admits that in one I just viewed. Makes me wonder how carefully it was scripted to be sure people stay "tuned in".
He states in the video about the grounding that they lost cameras when the boat grounded, they were washed out to sea. When you see the sea inside his boat I find that a plausible explanation.I don't believe that video is published.Whether it exists is another question. As far as I know insurance should be responsible to pay the owner even if the failure could be blamed on the ball. I am going to carefully read my policy but I don't think it should exclude operator error either unless it was criminal behavior or outside the limits of his policy. I would guess his legal case against his carrier is strengthened if they refused to communicate. Hopefully he can get some compensation.
Since the insurance company never went to see the boat plus refuses to talk to him, I think we can safely say it is option nr 1Based on what I perceive so far is....
1. The insurance company is bad/wrong/slimy....????
2. Or the insurance company knows something we don't.
I will see what the video on the insurance end has to say...at least one side of the story.
Always against the company is not always the right answer.Since the insurance company never went to see the boat plus refuses to talk to him, I think we can safely say it is option nr 1
[SNIP]The whole grounding was basically on video. They went to a restaurant for lunch, tied up to a mooring buoy, took the dinghy to shore and within a few minutes the boat plus mooring buoy were following them, crashing on the shore. The mooring buoy simply broke loose.
Normally, mooring ball chains are relatively short (to minimize swing) and block anchors are immense weights that resist lifting, mushroom anchors again are immense, heavy, and designed for the vertical pulling but use a bit more chain, or screw anchors designed also to survive vertical pulling.so if it was rough and they short tied then the bouncing action on the bow could easily pull out the anchor of the buoy. Like all anchors they work on lateral pull, not vertical.
Also fine, does not change the outcome, the boat followed them to shore because the mooring buoy broke. Whether it was the chain that broke, the ball that fell apart or the whole block was pulled to shore, no idea, but in the end the mooring ball was lying on the shore as well.[SNIP]
They didn't take the dinghy to shore. He says in his video that it was too rough to land the dinghy so they all swam to shore. He was moored on a lee shore. Waves were breaking on the beach too big to land the dinghy. They wanted to go to lunch. So all of them swam to shore.
And there is exactly the problem. You assume they are designed well.Normally, mooring ball chains are relatively short (to minimize swing) and block anchors are immense weights that resist lifting, mushroom anchors again are immense, heavy, and designed for the vertical pulling but use a bit more chain, or screw anchors designed also to survive vertical pulling.
Of course that's assuming it was a well designed mooring.
I don't assume all moorings are all designed correctly....in fact I know better being the USCG operations officer in a harbor of some pirate moorings that I also had my sailboat in.. I only mentioned how well designed ones vary with different anchors and that they normally should survive vessel pitching.And there is exactly the problem. You assume they are designed well.
I sail in Croatia and the amount of illegal mooring buoys is immense. Can guarantee you they have not been designed at all, they have just been put in the water and that is it. Same for the legal mooring buoys, no design, not thoughts behind it, just a block in the water, piece of chain, buoy and that is it.
These buoys where 'wondering hillbilly' moored belonged to a restaurant (btw they don't talk about these mooring buoys anymore). Also Navily does not talk about the mooring buoys anymore, I guess all of them have been removed. Now why is that ?
All mooring buoys in the med are attached to blocks of concrete in some form or another. Sometimes there are a couple of block of concrete and a chain between them where the mooring buoys are attached to.I don't assume all moorings are all designed correctly....in fact I know better being the USCG operations officer in a harbor of some pirate moorings that I also had my sailboat in.. I only mentioned how well designed ones vary with different anchors and that they normally should survive vessel pitching.
If they were removed they probably weren't great mooring so someone who broke free may not have done due diligence. Blaming the insurance company on hearing only one side of the story tells me a lot.
You are so missing the obvious.All mooring buoys in the med are attached to blocks of concrete in some form or another. Sometimes there are a couple of block of concrete and a chain between them where the mooring buoys are attached to.
Other times each mooring buoy has its own block of concrete and each block has a different weight.
Most of the time the have chains attached to the block of concrete and then the last part is a line plus the buoy.
However, once dropped in the water there is not a single sole who will check these mooring buoys to see if they are in good condition. Even the ones operated by the port authorities don't get checked.
Last year in the port of Symi (Greece) in November we got the advise to attach ourselves to three mooring buoys since they did not know if the mooring buoys were in good condition. And all summer long they had been tying yachts up to them.
Perhaps in the US mooring buoys are well taken care of, but in other countries you have no clue how safe that mooring buoy is and anchoring is forbidden, so now you are forced to take that buoy. In some case we just continued for another 5 hours, arriving in an anchorage at 2 or 3 AM so that we could be on our own anchor. However, many people just grab the buoy, tie up and go to sleep.
Very sad story all around. 4 years for a 70 year old is almost a life sentence.
Doesn't this bother anyone else ?[SNIP]
..He says in his video that it was too rough to land the dinghy .... He was moored on a lee shore. Waves were breaking on the beach too big ...
Agree, especially para 2.Doesn't this bother anyone else ?
If you were on a lee shore and the mooring breaks, the boat goes out to sea and waves don't "crash on the beach" The decision of where to leave the boat was a bad one. The decision not to leave someone on a boat that is moored within swimming distance of crashing surf too big to land a dinghy was another bad decision. If I had the choice of trying to save my boat, or film it's destruction I would have chosen differently. No matter how futile I would have boarded her and ground the props to their hubs trying to back off that beach.
We should all take a moment and remember the inherant bias of the only source of information here. This guy obviously has a horse in this race and a substantial talent for showmanship and presentation. I am sure if we were to hear from the insurance company, many significant differences would arise in the stories.
Absolutely. I said further upthread there were a number of questionable decisions made, combined with the fact he has documented a lot of his behaviours and put them into the Public Domain.Agree, especially para 2.