Holding tank lesson!

[Bacchus]

Soda Ash or sodium carbonate is the second ingredient.

Mx 2 parts percarbonate to 1 part soda ash. Works perfect.

I think you get sodium carbonate as a byproduct when SPC dissolved in water the peroxide separates leaving the sodium carbonate.
"Dissolved in water, sodium percarbonate yields a mixture of hydrogen peroxide (which eventually decomposes to water and*oxygen),*sodium*cations*Na+
, and*carbonate*CO2−
3.[1][4]
{\displaystyle {\ce {2Na2CO3*3H2O2 -> 3H2O2 + 4Na+ + 2CO3^2-}}}"
"As an*oxidizing agent, sodium percarbonate is an ingredient in a number of home and*laundry cleaning*products, including non-chlorine*bleach*products such as*Oxyper,*OxiClean,*Tide laundry detergent,[1]*and*Vanish.[4]
Many commercial products mix a percentage of sodium percarbonate with sodium carbonate. The average percentage of an "Oxy" product in the supermarket is 65% sodium percarbonate and 35% sodium carbonate. The "ultra boosters" seen on infomercials may contain as much as 80% sodium percarbonate. However, sodium percarbonate is less expensive in its pure form[citation needed]*and can be adjusted to any percentage the user desires.
Sodium percarbonate is also used as a cleaning agent by many home brewers.*[9]
Sodium percarbonate can be used in*organic synthesis*as a convenient source of anhydrous H2O2, in particular in solvents that cannot dissolve the carbonate but can leach the H2O2*out of it.[10]*A method for generating*trifluoroperacetic acid*in situ*for use in*Baeyer–Villiger oxidations*from sodium percarbonate and*trifluoroacetic anhydride*has been reported; it provides a convenient and cheap approach to this reagent without the need to obtain highly concentrated hydrogen peroxide.[11][12]"

 

[CruisingTheICW]

Cleaning The Holding Tank

From Don Casey's column in BoatUS Magazine:

"How empty the tank becomes is a function of the location of the pump-out connection at the tank. If it is on the side, some residue is unavoidable. The best you can do is flush the tank to dilute what is left. If, however, the residue you are talking about is a solid mass at the bottom of the tank, try adding two cups of Calgon Water Softener (many supermarkets carry this) and a cup of liquid laundry detergent to two gallons of hot water, and pour this into the tank. Let this mix work for several hours, then fill the tank the rest of the way with fresh water. Pump it out the next day. Much of the now-emulsified waste should come out with the water. Rinse and pump again and you will have done about the best you can do."

Based on your predicament, I would up the up the mixture to match 1/3 to 1/2 the holding tank's capacity and after it has been sitting for a while, take the boat our for a ride to slosh the mixture around to get the rest of the tank, then pump out.

You may have to do this several times to make a dent in the problem. I would continue to put the Calgon and soap in the tank to preclude waste sticking to the walls once you get it clean.

Sent from my iPhone

 

[HeadMistress]

Oh there's a much easier way!

Put enough water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting--'cuz that sends the water into the tank to stir up any sludge--to cover the bottom to a depth of 6"...pump that out. Repeat...repeat...until you're pumping out clean water. Or...

If you have an overboard discharge macerator pump and a washdown pump (sea water is ok) and can get offshore beyond 3 miles, use the washdown pump to put the water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting and keep the water running while you run the macerator pump till only clean water is being discharged.

This should be done 2-3 x/season and especially in preparation for winter or other extended layup.

--Peggie

 

[dhays]

Oh there's a much easier way!

Put enough water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting--'cuz that sends the water into the tank to stir up any sludge--to cover the bottom to a depth of 6"...pump that out. Repeat...repeat...until you're pumping out clean water. Or...

If you have an overboard discharge macerator pump and a washdown pump (sea water is ok) and can get offshore beyond 3 miles, use the washdown pump to put the water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting and keep the water running while you run the macerator pump till only clean water is being discharged.

This should be done 2-3 x/season and especially in preparation for winter or other extended layup.

--Peggie

Peggie, the first idea is something that I've been doing for years after first reading one of your posts a long time ago on another forum.

The second idea is brilliant! I rarely get to use my overboard discharge. When in BC however where pump out facilities are rare in some parts I can.

When doing those longer trips, I am always careful on water use, so I switch my washdown to seawater. That would be a great way to flush the tank in those situations. Thanks!

 

[JRO]

I’ve done so many dumb things I can’t imagine doing anything right the first time. Measure twice, cut once is all B.S.. I just look and cut.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Interesting arrangement. I’m not familiar enough with the chemistry of the TidePod, but they are definitely designed to dissolve in water, not sewage. Perhaps there are enough differences to impact that membrane?

We inherited a bag of them, but it’s nothing but sodium percarbonate in our tank.

 

[rwidman]

We use Tide pods for their intended use, washing clothes in a washing machine. They are much more convenient when cruising than carrying a jug of detergent back and forth to the laundry room.

If you think laundry detergent is the best product to clean your boat's holding tank, I would suggest using a liquid detergent, not a "pod". Using a liquid, you won't have to worry about the pod dissolving properly.

Personally, I tend to stick with products designed and sold for the intended use so I use holding tank products in my holding tank and laundry detergent in a washing machine.

 

[grahamdouglass]

Cleaning product for holding tank

I use CLR. It’s supposed to be septic safe. I also use bamboo toilet paper.

 

[dhays]

I use CLR. It’s supposed to be septic safe. I also use bamboo toilet paper.

I would be very concerned that the bamboo toilet paper wouldn’t break down as well.

The CLR will remove calcium, lime, and rust. I don’t know that it would do anything for holding tank sludge.

 

[localboy]

We use Tide pods for their intended use, washing clothes in a washing machine. They are much more convenient when cruising than carrying a jug of detergent back and forth to the laundry room.

Ditto. And are so much easier to store, especially when you have a smaller boat such as ours. I have been using “Happy Campers” treatment. I have no idea what it is composed of; MSDS just states “monohydrate” so that is useless.

 

[backinblue]

I would be very concerned that the bamboo toilet paper wouldn’t break down as well.

The CLR will remove calcium, lime, and rust. I don’t know that it would do anything for holding tank sludge.

Supposedly, bamboo paper breaks down more quickly and completely than paper made from trees, but I would want to be sure it specifically says it is for RV and marine use.

 

[Bacchus]

Supposedly, bamboo paper breaks down more quickly and completely than paper made from trees, but I would want to be sure it specifically says it is for RV and marine use.

I wouldn't worry whether it states RV / marine... thats marketing & $.
Test a few pieces in a jar of water... soak then a gentle shake to see if it breaks down or stays as a wet glob. Plenty of " conventional" TP that says nothing about RV / marine breaks down just fine.

 

[backinblue]

I wouldn't worry whether it states RV / marine... thats marketing & $.
Test a few pieces in a jar of water... soak then a gentle shake to see if it breaks down or stays as a wet glob. Plenty of " conventional" TP that says nothing about RV / marine breaks down just fine.

This is supposed to be one of the best, as well as one of the cheapest. Rare combo!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Scott-Rapid-Dissolving-Toilet-Paper-8-Rolls/892674221

 

[grahamdouglass]

Bamboo toilet paper

It says it’s septic safe and breaks down really quickly. Time will tell

 

[ranger58sb]

I use CLR. It’s supposed to be septic safe.

I think I've seen Peggie describe "septic" as anaerobic... so "septic safe" could mean OK for household septic tanks, but exactly the opposite of what aerobic holding tanks -- like what boats have -- need.

(Peggie will likely correct me if I got that wrong.)

-Chris

 

[Iggy]

My head has two holding tanks. One on the same level as the head and another below the deck. The top one is connected to the lower with about 3 foot of hose. Waste enters the top tank first and once it clears the hose mounting flange it starts to flow into the lower tank.
A couple weeks ago after a pump out I got the stupid idea to add some Tide to the tanks. The stupid part was I used tide pods instead of just liquid....


Every time I'm sure I've finally heard it all, somebody proves me wrong!



--Peggie

Yep, at times I feel the same way!

 

[kimoshatt]

Holding tank

Years ago I read that the drink Orange Tang works to break up sludge and freshen older holding tanks. I used it but not sure if it worked. I have seen orange holding tank additives lately

 

[BruceK]

Years ago I read that the drink Orange Tang works to break up sludge and freshen older holding tanks. I used it but not sure if it worked. I have seen orange holding tank additives lately

Surprising, but remember those stories about Coca Cola dissolving teeth....

 

[Todd727]

Camping folks have recommended you add Dawn dishwashing liquid to the holding tanks. It breaks down the greases found in solid waste and does a fair job of keeping the tanks clean.

As to the septic comments that I see hear and in camping fora, these are holding tanks, not treatment plants. The solid waste doesn't sit in the tanks long enough for bacteria to really do anything. True household treatment plants have an aeration pump and that waste is in the first tank for years, so the plant has time to actually get into a decent cycle. The effluent is drained off of the top, through a chlorinator and into a second tank. The top liquid on that tank is then discharged as clean water.

Don't waste your time or money on septic tank chemicals.

 

[Bacchus]

Camping folks have recommended you add Dawn dishwashing liquid to the holding tanks. It breaks down the greases found in solid waste and does a fair job of keeping the tanks clean.



As to the septic comments that I see hear and in camping fora, these are holding tanks, not treatment plants. The solid waste doesn't sit in the tanks long enough for bacteria to really do anything. True household treatment plants have an aeration pump and that waste is in the first tank for years, so the plant has time to actually get into a decent cycle. The effluent is drained off of the top, through a chlorinator and into a second tank. The top liquid on that tank is then discharged as clean water.



Don't waste your time or money on septic tank chemicals.

Todd... I have to disagree
It doesn't take long for the bacteria to start to act on the waste. Thats what makes a holding tank smell... when the bacteria is the anaerobic variety.
If enough oxygen is present the aerobic bacteria can thrive and guess what no (or at least very little) foul smell. [Thanks Peggie for teaching us this! Holding tanks 101]

You likely don't need chemicals IF...
Your holding tank has adequate venting (many fail here)
You add a DIY or commercial bubbler

If you don't have / do the above NoFlex or the generic sodium percarbonate is a very effective additive that provides the O2 when dissolved and it breaks down.

If you do / have the above conditions you will notice a significantly cleaner effluent when pumping out holding tanks. Much clearer, no/little smell and no visible globs of TP when the good bacteria are happy and doing their thing.

 

[HeadMistress]

I would be very concerned that the bamboo toilet paper wouldn’t break down as well.

Easy enough to find out: tear off a couple of sheets and put 'em in a glass of water. Come back in an hour or two and stir the water. If it's milky and the TP is "snow, it's fine for use in any marine toilet. But if the sheets are still intact or mostly intact, it's only safe for use in high end macerating electric toilets whose mfrs claim that any TP can be used in 'em.

CLR dissolves mineral scale. Holding tank sludge is organic and may also include chemical residue, neither of which CLR can dissolve...although it might help reduce mineral buildup in the toilet discharge line. As for "septic tank safe," I stopped trusting that claim when it, along with "flushable" began appearing on wet wipe labels. They do NOT dissolve! But I guess the damage they do by clogging drains, sewer pipes and marine sanitation systems doesn't make them unsafe to flush into sewer systems, septic tanks doesn't count.

A monohydrate is one molecule of water added to a formula, so unless "Happy Camper" is just water, it can't be the active ingredient in it. And the SDS is indeed useless because it says there are no additional known ingredients classified as harmful to health or environment, "hence are not required to be reported in this section." I've NEVER seen anything like that in an MSDS before! Their literature says it's organic, which rules out toxic chemicals and "biodegradable," which is a meaningless feel-good term...formaldehyde is bio-degradable! But it seems safe enough, so if it works to prevent odor out the vent I can't find any reason not to use it.

--Peggie