I told her I didn't want to buy a boat!

[KnotYet]

Better yet, can we swap. Lol. Mindsets only. All my friends are huge fisherman and Im the odd man out without ever having much interest in owning a boat. After a few trips to the Bahamas and Carribean and I now have a newfound interest in boating

Those friends that are also knowledgeable boaters will be a lot of help.
The ones that know you well will be aware of your strengths and weaknesses, too.
Finding dockspace for a 53' powercat will be a major hurdle as will insurance.
You may be very comfortable with one in the 40-44 foot range. I know I would.

 

[High Wire]

To the OP, you don’t know what you don’t know yet. Before you think about buying something that big new, charter a yacht with a teaching captain. But even before that buy the mentioned Chapmans and read it cover to cover several times. That’s a minimum. Otherwise the hired captain will be explaining stuff to you that you really don’t understand but you think you do, if that makes sense.

 

[psneeld]

Never said a lifetime of experience is needed...just stair steps to some degree...some can make them larger when not hampered by youth, finances, life in general....etc...etc...

They can be tall steps and not baby steps, but jump too high and too fast before you know what's at the top step and it could be the last step before the Grand Canyon with no landing to stop on.

Believe me after decades of teaching boating from classroom to on the water and just sitting around the fire.... some learn at supersonic speeds and some learn at a snails pace. Also rescuing them for 35 years gave a bit of insight too.

The 2 careers of helping boaters on the water and discussing what happened, why and their backgrounds taught me a lot. How many have both perspective....boater and rescuer? I have always said, I probably learned more in one year working as a commercial captain than I had as a recreational boater in 30 years

The OP has admitted that he knows there is a lot to learn, he has some good initial guidance to learn what he may and may not know and will lead to asking educated answers throughout the process.... all I ever tried to do was make people understand the difference between boating around the lake and harbor, coastal long distance cruising in easy areas, and cruising long distance or to more remote areas. Those different levels take quantum leaps in experience.

Takle my advice for what its worth....free...just like every one else's here.

 

[ReelNauti]

I think we will just look at 40' for the first one. Give me some time to get comfortable with it, we just wont have the room the wife wants to take guests out but Id rather stay with something smaller since from what Im hearing here is that a 40' is much easier to own and operate compared to a 50'. Hopefully, it will help with insurance and fuel $$.

I am seeing options for captains that offer vessel orientation local here so thats a plus. Im also seeing that it would be wise to make sure we can secure insurance so we will probably make sure theres no hiccups there, then Ill read as much as I can and talk to the boat owners down here before pulling the trigger.

 

[mvweebles]

I think we will just look at 40' for the first one. Give me some time to get comfortable with it, we just wont have the room the wife wants to take guests out but Id rather stay with something smaller since from what Im hearing here is that a 40' is much easier to own and operate compared to a 50'. Hopefully, it will help with insurance and fuel $$.

I am seeing options for captains that offer vessel orientation local here so thats a plus. Im also seeing that it would be wise to make sure we can secure insurance so we will probably make sure theres no hiccups there, then Ill read as much as I can and talk to the boat owners down here before pulling the trigger.

Last bit of advice - since you're starting with a blank sheet, find a slip first, then a boat that will fit into it. I know it sounds nuts, but there's a certain logic to it. Over the last 50-years, a LOT more boats have been made than slips/marinas. I don't know your area at all, but in some areas there are significant wait lists for certain size boats. Would really suck to buy something just a tad too big for available slips.....

I think a 40-foot boat is a great size - so much easier to use.

Good luck -

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks @mvweebles and @ranger58sb. I feel like Im getting some solid advice now. Im leaning towards new simply because it greatly reduces the risks of breakdowns but even if I end up with a used boat I do have solid background in mechanical and electrical repairs.

Good to have a fix-it background. You might not be too surprised to learn, then, that a 15-minute fix on the bench could be a 4-hour chore counting access issues.

There's a whole bunch of non-mechanical/electrical stuff to absorb too. Can do, but it might be something like a firehose.

Can you navigate to safety when all your electronic devices crap out and a fog bank sets in?

What do you do when your only crew takes a fall and breaks an arm... while you're offshore?

Can you make decent weather judgments about expected sea states and go/no-go decisions (knowing that forecasts are only correct, if ever, for about a 10-minute window on any given day)?

Can you -- and your crew -- deal with unexpected 8'/short period seas when long period 4-footers were predicted? (And are you happy to just re-stow everything you own that automatically re-arranged itself all over the cabins during the "uncomfortable" period?)

Can you dock the boat on only one engine... without breaking boat or dock?

As above, memorize Chapman's and similar to get more of a clue about how to deal with "stuff" like that.

-Chris

 

[Mako]

I second what @Ranger58 said.

When I studied for my first license (6-pack) many moons ago I found it annoying to have to learn all those silly nav light combinations. Green over white. White over green. Double amber/yellow. Etc.

Months later I’m 34 miles out of Cape Flattery, pitch black night, and figured out that target in front of me is shooting nets over his port side.

Wow. Thanks Chapman’s!

 

[Shrew]

Welcome to Trawler Forum. If you're looking at sailing cats, then also check out our sister site:

Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Cruisers Forum is an online forum community of cruisers from around the world!

www.cruisersforum.com

 

[Don L]

Thanks @mvweebles and @ranger58sb. I feel like Im getting some solid advice now. Im leaning towards new simply because it greatly reduces the risks of breakdowns but even if I end up with a used boat I do have solid background in mechanical and electrical repairs.

The simple thing gets written a lot. In 15 years I have not figured out what it means. Near as I have ever been able to figure is it means no generator or watermaker. Other than those the loss of "non-simple" things is so low as to not really be worth doing with out the benefits if you can afford the initial cost.

That is just my feeling after 7.5 years of full time cruising/living on a boat and I have detailed cost records to support this. Not once did I ever get rid of a non-simple thing and instead kept getting more them.

I got tired of fixing my non-simple diesel generator and replaced with a simple Honda. I installed a non-simple DC watermaker and replaced with a simple AC unit.

None of that means boat use is no expensive. If you use your boat it will cost to maintain it

 

[Ertyqway]

If you love being out on the water and have a very healthy respect for Mother Nature and her fickle, tempestuous, sometimes lethal moods, that's all you need to start. As others have said, there's a lot to learn. But if you are motivated to learn it and have enough natural caution and humility to avoid learning catastrophically, you'll be fine. Start small. Work your way up. Make friends who share the passion. Learn from those with experience. Keep having fun. And you will likely find a home out on the waves like many of us have.

 

[Seevee]

I feel there's a bit of overkill here. You don't need to read Chapmans cover to cover but nice to have. Mine is a reference book, just like my Calder, Gerr and others. You don't need a capts license, don't need 30 years experience, don't need to be prepared for an electrical failure in a fog bank or other "multiple" emergencies..... just too rare. You don't need to be prepared for ALL possible things. Hire a captain for training, they should teach you enough basics to get you by and keep you safe. You should be able to dock a twin with a single engine only. Know how to handle basic emergencies and systems failures. It's not that hard.
Paul said to hire the "best" training captain... go down to Ft. Pierce and hire Capt. Chris, you won't go wrong. Go to Ft. Myers and charter a boat (with a training capt for a week or a few days, you'll learn a ton.
Peter said a smaller 40ish boat might be a better first choice. Agreed, both because it's easier to buy, operate, maintain and sell than a much larger one, and you can do a LOT of cruising on a 40' boat... even the Bahamas. Heck, look at Peter in his 36' Willard doing the California to Florida run.
And before you venture into open water and the Bahamas, you'll want to bone up on weather and forecasting. You can use Chris Parker for good wx info on your first few trips over there.
We all started out as beginners and some have advanced quite rapidly. We have loopers that have had rapid training and done well on the loop.
Yes, it's very doable, and you'll get a lot of good ideas here.

 

[FWT]

You know the old saying. Judgement comes from experience, but unfortunately good judgement comes from bad experience.

Even if you spend years gaining experience before heading to the Bahamas, the first time you go you will be doing it with no experience in the Bahamas. In the end its about doing things you have never done before. Being not afraid of that, but not foolhardy either.

Make the plan and work the plan.

Cruising can be expensive to the wallet and to life and limb.

Do not be impulsive.

Take your time, but proceed. With due caution. In steps. There is a lot to learn, and a lot of soul-searching to be done before its time to select a specific boat and write checks. That is not to say you should not proceed.

Measure twice, cut once.

 

[psneeld]

A book like Chapmans is just a wide shotgun of info that teaches beginners about topics that they didn'y even know they should. The did call it the "boating bible" for years.

It doesn't have to be memorized, just lightly read to review the breadth of basics in boating. I don't know what.s in the newer editions, but chapters like trailering may be useless to someone that starts boating with a non-trailerable boat. The electronics chapter is often out of date but recent editions should cover at least most of the basic electronic tools and their uses.

So whether Chapman's or the average NASBLA safe boating course guidebook (I believe even available online) will cover many subject areas that will be from essential to handy. Sure most of the topics will be covered on the internet but they are usually not grouped nicely and frankly way too much out there isn't really good or trustworthy.

The very least Chapman's does...it starts beginners on the vocabulary of boating which will always be handy as a boater. If perusing it seems too much and doesn't stir the boating yearning, maybe boating might never be much interest to someone.

 

[psneeld]

Here are some quotes from smart people that I have heard through the years...they kinda apply to boating and pretty much any other even slightly dangerous endeavor. They don't mean you always have to wait forever.... but keeping the unknowns to a minimum is a pretty dang good idea.

• "A wise person learns from their own mistakes, while a wiser one learns from others' mistakes."
• "Only a fool learns from their own mistakes; the wise man learns from others' mistakes."
• "A truly wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

This one I think applies the most....

• "You can't live long enough to make all your own mistakes; learn from others."

 

[Delta Riverat]

Well, everyone is going to make mistakes, yes?

And to fear doing a new thing because "you might make mistakes" ... well why bother eh?

 

[psneeld]

Well, everyone is going to make mistakes, yes?

And to fear doing a new thing because "you might make mistakes" ... well why bother eh?

Never said "fear" doing something new, but be prepared for it. The average person that has confidence from knowledge and experience then goes clear minded (to a point) into those new situations without fear.

Those that are quickly thrust into new situations and have no idea about what can go wrong are the ones that panic and that often results in really bad things.

Most organizations require training and climbing the experience ladder before taking on new assignments. Why should a new boater to cruiser be any different? It doesn't have to be complicated, just not too quick.

As to mistakes, sure everyone makes them...the trick is to avoid most of them or diffusing them quickly because of prior knowledge and experience. Thus the danger of expecting too much too fast in any endeavor.

 

[ranger58sb]

Yeah, actually memorizing Chapman's would be a bit over the top. Sorry.

Good to read the relevant seamanship bits, though. Ditto good to browse through Calder's books, too, and similar.

-Chris

 

[Seevee]

Another small thing, but might be worthwhile:
I signed up for the electrical course from Calder and Dr. Jan C. Athenstädt. Nigel Calder needs no introduction and Jan has a PhD in computer science and an avid boater, who moderates the courses.
You can take the coarse as you wish, and skip around and refer back to it

I got the basic and advanced course and it's worthwhile and cheap enough even for a good review for an electrical expert. Ya can't know too much about electrical stuff. It's has the most significant issues on boats and has one of the highest risk in failures.

It alerted me to a minor issue I had. The voltage and the amperage readings from the batt vs the volt meter didn't look right. I was loosing some amps along the way. I located a super hot connection off of the battery switch that was a fire in the making. Had enough cable to cut the old crimp connector off and put a new one on. Problem solved.

boathowto.com

I've been a risk taker all of my life. Flying, Aircraft mechanic, Skiing, Real Estate (buying renting rehabing), boating and took up snowboarding in my 40s. While all have an element of risk, one can control the risk with moderation and learning. I've had a few broken bones over the years, but got thru it. Those were the times I learned from MY mistakes, not others.

 

[Ertyqway]

You know the old saying. Judgement comes from experience, but unfortunately good judgement comes from bad experience.

"Unprepared people have disasters. Prepared people have experiences."

 

[henrymei]

Thanks @mvweebles and @ranger58sb. I feel like Im getting some solid advice now. Im leaning towards new simply because it greatly reduces the risks of breakdowns but even if I end up with a used boat I do have solid background in mechanical and electrical repairs. Our Ohio house is a large log cabin and if you know anything about log cabins they are constant maintenance. I have a genie manlift and cat skid steer to take care of the house and land and they are even more maintenance than the house lol. The business I own reengineers variable frequency drives, so experience there will help with any electrical issues and I can even supply my own inverter system upgrade if need be. We have supplied VFD's to customers big and small. From a farmer down the road to Space X in Tx, the challenges we take on are not for the faint of heart. I truly enjoy a challenge and have already begun reading as much as I can about boating. Looking forward to getting some serious experience in.

FWIW- driving a big cat around a marina has been likened to driving a skid loader.
I strongly agree with those that suggest chartering with a captain first. You’ll learn a lot and better define your needs. And yes, you’ll probably need a captain to sign you off to be able to get insurance. One of the best pieces of advice I got from a captain was “always approach a dock at the speed you intend to collide with it” . Good luck.

 

[dwpsco]

20 years ago I decided I wanted to live on a long range cruiser. I started by buying books and I have an extensive library that cover many aspects of this life, and have read all of them cover to cover many times. I’m still ordering more books to learn more. But my ACTUAL experience was lake boats and the biggest was 27’ twin engine Searay and a stint in the US Navy as a computer nerd.

18 Months ago I bought Dragonfly a 1989 54' steel boat that started life as a commercial tuna boat, later converted to a long range cruiser in Portland OR. I have been living aboard full time since and have cruised from Astoria OR to San Juan Islands of WA. 30 hour trip and did it alone. I have had trials and tribulations, I have made mistakes and had things happen that even people who have spent their lives on boats like these never happen to them. No one has been hurt nor have I damaged Dragonfly or any other boat. Though I did almost loose dragonfly once when docking alone I jumped to the dock, grabbed the bow line and the current almost carried Dragonfly away before I could grab a dock cleat.

All this said, I love the life I have and wouldn’t ever want to go back to being a land lubber. Am I a proper Captain? Hell no. But I take things slowly, try to recognized my lack of skills and don’t get in too deep. I am learning more every day and one day hope to be fully qualified. I have had people try and piss on my dreams, they had scary stories and real life fears. But I’m ex firefighter. I don’t scare easily.

If this is what you really want to do, do it. Go slow, study a lot and be prepared to spend more money then you expect

 

[MRichards]

Over time, you can certainly learn to manage a boat of this size and complexity. As you gain experience, your knowledge will equip you with the skills needed to venture to the Bahamas and many other beautiful destinations, should you choose to do so. However, you mentioned in your opening paragraph that you told your wife you do not have enough time for this. In my opinion, that is a significant concern. If you feel that way now, without yet owning a boat of this magnitude, then time constraints could become a serious challenge.

One option to consider is hiring a captain or a qualified mate who can take care of the maintenance and ensure the boat is ready for your trips when you do have the time. I personally own and maintain a smaller vessel—a R29CB Ranger Tug with a single diesel engine and generator. It’s perfect for inland travel and short trips from our home in Southeast Florida to the Bahamas, weather permitting. The boat is kept at our home on the Intracoastal, and based on my years of experience, I can tell you that a boat always requires maintenance. Whether it’s preventive care or addressing inevitable repairs, there will always be something that needs attention—even with a brand-new boat.

Before you start looking for a boat, I would advise you to carefully consider how much time you are truly willing to dedicate to it. If time is a limitation, then also weigh the financial commitment of hiring someone to manage not just the upkeep but the overall care and readiness of the boat for you.

One of the previous posts suggested chartering a cat. The Caribbean and even Bahamas offers a plethora of opportunities to do this. Consider giving that a try to see how much both you and your wife truly enjoy teh boating and cruising lifestyle.

 

[DaveGibson]

Then I told her again and again but just like every other time we have a conversation like this she seems she finds a way. We really dont have time but I told her I would go to the boat show coming up soon. Thats when I started looking at some Catamaran's online just for giggles. We moved to Ormond Beach a couple of years ago, well we still have our house back in Ohio, but we are full time residents here in Fl now. While searching for Cats I saw a video where the owner was talking about kick up rudders which is perfect for the Bahama's and I was like, how the hell do you get your Cat all the way to.... and it hit me. I think you could've knocked me over with a feather. To boat from a marina in Fl to the Bahamas and spend a week or two whenever the he11 we wanted. Is this really possible? What all would be involved? Do I need an international license or anything? These probably seem like really silly questions but remember Im from Ohio, I just need to know the truth. I told the wife if we can sell one of our 3 houses then we can probably do this. Now Im looking at the new Powercat 53's ughh it never ends, but I do have lots of tiem to decide.

Ah, first boat. Better known as your "bankruptcy starter kit".

 

[rgano]

Let me add a perspective about running to the Bahamas from Florida. After a varied career at sea including command of a small US Navy ship, oil field work, and "chasing Red October" as first mate in a towed array vessel, and years of trawler ownership I helped a friend who had many years' experience as a both a marine mechanic and commercial vessel operator and builder get his 65-foot vessel to Walker's Cay (northernmost of Bahamas) from Panama City in the Gulf of Mexico - a week's journey. I was sitting on the pier at Walker's when an open, "slenderly equipped" speedboat of maybe 24-foot length with a sunburned young male and a couple of females showed up, and I asked them where they were from. Oh, we're from Miami and thought we'd come over here for the day. They had started just a few hours earlier. That's a very long run, and they must have had an exceptionally calm day across the Gulf Stream running with their collective hair on fire.

So I am thinking, "Here we are with all of this boat, experience, and gear, and these kids are here with us enjoying this same remote place with nothing to back them up, but I wonder what would have happened to them if their boat had let them down?"

From talking to them, I don't think they knew what they did not know or that there was indeed anything they needed to know. ReelNauti, on the other hand, sounds like he is seeking what there is to know that might bite him, and I suspect that the first foray into that realm will a person with his intelligence to the uniqueness of the nautical world. Asking for all the magic answers which will keep him out of potential troublesome issues can be a bit frustrating to folks who have "been there," but, hey, he is starting.

 

[Beach House]

Then I told her again and again but just like every other time we have a conversation like this she seems she finds a way. We really dont have time but I told her I would go to the boat show coming up soon. Thats when I started looking at some Catamaran's online just for giggles. We moved to Ormond Beach a couple of years ago, well we still have our house back in Ohio, but we are full time residents here in Fl now. While searching for Cats I saw a video where the owner was talking about kick up rudders which is perfect for the Bahama's and I was like, how the hell do you get your Cat all the way to.... and it hit me. I think you could've knocked me over with a feather. To boat from a marina in Fl to the Bahamas and spend a week or two whenever the he11 we wanted. Is this really possible? What all would be involved? Do I need an international license or anything? These probably seem like really silly questions but remember Im from Ohio, I just need to know the truth. I told the wife if we can sell one of our 3 houses then we can probably do this. Now Im looking at the new Powercat 53's ughh it never ends, but I do have lots of tiem to decide.

Others have done a good job of unpacking important information for your consideration. I will give you a little female perspective. If your wife wants a boat, is she willing to get some training? She has a crucial part in the success of the adventure and should know how to operate the boat, and various safety procedures. Any kind of passage making is serious. I was just talking with an experienced boater of at least 50 years who chose not to go to the Bahamas as part of the "Loop" a popular boating adventure. He and he wife have sailed half way around the world. Good passage making depends on conditions and stamina. Passages can mean laser focused sailing all night, monitoring for ships and other cruisers, monitoring weather, checking various functions of the boat, checking your course, current and radar, being boarded by the Coastguard, running into whales or junk and any number of other surprises. Also, there are times when it is pure magic, no ships to deal with, light breezes, calm seas, full moon and sea life, with the boat purring along.

Before you buy a boat, go to YouTube and do some video touring together. "Stay Cool" is about a couple who bought a trawler and cruised, did the loop and the Bahamas. In fact, they have a video on doing the passage to the Bahamas.

I wish you and your wife all the best! Boat hunting and doing all the research on your choices is an adventure in itself.
Kathy

 

[Dswizzler]

Start at the beginning. Check and see where the nearest Coast Guard Aux. Is and sign up for all of their courses. You can learn weather, navigation, plotting, seamanship, small boat handling , rules of the road, provisioning. All before you get on a boat and learn how to handle it. Courses in electronics, plumbing and motors as well. You didn't say gas out diesel. That is for starters

 

[Snapdragon III]

I would go for it. It's going to be great. I would also not even consider a new boat unless you have tons of money. It will take forever to build, then another forever to outfit and trouble shoot, and 5 years from now when it is finally ready to go it will be worth half or less than you paid for it. Look for a used boat that has been fastidiously maintained by a detail oriented owner with an open checkbook. Personally I think super well mantained and upgraded boats boats built between about 1995-2010 are the most common sweet spot for value. It will cost way less than half of a new boat, you will get it quicker, and it will have way less breakdowns and problems. The idea that new boats will have less breakdowns is a total fantasy. And when you have inevitable problems, it is twice as big a pain to get them fixed because you have to coordinate/fight with the builder to get it done under warranty instead of just doing it yourself, or getting it done by the most convenient service provider.

 

[Blissboat]

Look for a used boat that has been fastidiously maintained by a detail oriented owner with an open checkbook. Personally I think super well maintained and upgraded boats built between about 1995-2010 are the most common sweet spot for value.

That is wise counsel . . . Amen.

 

[long-cours.62]

Don't thinkng you need à life of expérience to do something.
In boating like everywhere you will find someone who don't give advi e or they give à général idea at the end of their curriculum vitæ...
But for example for you what is important : an advice or know if I am à Cpt 3000 or à simple river/sailor ?
First what you can do in confort of your house : read and Learn.
After that find a réal expérienced sailor ( be carefull in the bar everyone say they are experienced .
Training, training don't need year navigation is " only" logic, anticipation...and luck A expérience sailor said : 'une manœuvre réussie c'est une catastrophe évitée de justesse'
Few time in my life during manoeuvring something goïng wrong for example à gust at the wrong moment, you thinking **** and by miracle it work well in bad situation, the neiborg come to félicitate your seamanship and always I reply : I was Lucky.Some will said 'I have 40 year training behin me etc etc....
I think this type of People forgot the first lesson given by sea : modesty !
Never thinking you know all, continue to learn stay modeste .
And you could be from Mountain take your first boat like old friends who know nothing ( exept leanr theorie) he start from south coast of France to Baleares "to see"...and continu Gibraltar, Canaries,CapVert , Brésil, Antilles,Acores and back to France. Strong boat, right season, prudent people...no problem.
You have also People not prudent, weak boat who do circumnanigation ...they was lucky like Auboiroux and his small wooden boat Neovent.
And some very experienced people who died ,May be too much experienced and forgot 'prudence' for example Tabarly very experienced French sailor difficult to be more experienced but ....died at sea.
Or Moitessier who lost 2 boat, also put ashore with Joshua but experie ced man (run the world 11/2 turn non stop)
Or Slocum very experienced with professional cursus, à réal 'pure malt seaman, lost at sea.
And on big ships also they can make mistake even big mistake,...I saw some during my life, lukily I never made with big one or passenger but with my own one I still make mistake :-(

 

[PierreR]

If you have ever been around heavy equipment he has some skills that will definitely transfer very well. Staying ahead of the equipment is a big one.