Insurance Non-Renewal

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sbu22

sbu22

Guru
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
1,253
Location
US
Vessel Name
Panache
Vessel Make
Viking 43 Double Cabin '76
I received the following from my insurer yesterday:

I regret to inform you that due to underwriting changes since the Storms of 2017, your present insurance through Yacht Insure is being non- renewed. They are no longer insuring vessels under $100,000 in Value. Had they offered a renewal the premium would have been near double the expiring premium. Unfortunately, most of the other markets have followed suit in rate increases.

Attached is a quote from an Alternative Market. Given the age of your vessel, there are not many choices to choose from. This policy, while being an agreed value policy in the event of a total loss, takes depreciation on a partial loss. Their hull deductible is higher.

The current policy is up in late March. The “Alternative Market” is an outfit in Germany. Not sure how I feel about that.

I don’t know if these underwriting changes are actually prevalent or just my insurer. The same insurer has had the boat for the last 12 years (me and the PO) with zero claims history. The boat is in New Orleans, so it’s hurricane country. While, indeed, an old boat (1976) – she’s sound, passes out of water surveys with flying colors, FG hulled.

In the past, I have tried the usual suspects (USAA, BoatUS, Geico, Progressive, etc.) for coverage with no luck due to vessel size, age, etc.

I know there are some insurance savvy TFers out there, including (I believe) some in the business. I’m also guessing that while most TFers have boats with >$100 K valuation, there’s quite a few of us who do not. Can anyone point me to a possible insurance source for comparison? Appreciate it.

Bill
 
Keep this letter to make sure you have had insurance in the past. Insurance companies are a big rip off! But that would be a political discussion.


It seems every time there is a huge storm, insurance companies move out of that market due to was to many losses......
 
Try IMIS (International Marine Insurance Services)...they're independent yacht insurance brokers, located on Kent Island in the Annapolis MD area, who represent the best yacht insurers and have both sail and power owner clients who cruise all over the world on boat of all sizes and ages. I've known 'em for more than 20 years. 800-541-3758

Tell 'em I said hi.
 
Guess I decided to end my TF sabbatical at the right time . :)

The last storm season did a number on many marine insurers. Falvey left the market completely, and many others are revamping their underwriting guidelines- narrowing the vessel appetites, increasing premiums, revamped deductibles, etc.

If you have a current (within 2 years) survey, getting coverage should not be a challenge other than the potential increase in premium.

Pete
 
I agree with Peggie. Talk to a marine insurance broker and IMIS is a good one. They will find you a policy. Whether the cost is reasonable or not is another matter.

David
 
If you got that letter without a phone call first, I'd suggest a change in brokers might be appropriate.

As Peggie suggested, I'd find a good marine broker and the one she suggests has a good reputation. Insurance is available and while some have raised premiums significantly, with enough searching you'll find a moderate and livable increase.

I don't know who you're referring to as the "outfit in Germany" so could not offer an opinion as to their quality. Perhaps if you share who it is, others may have experience. I'm assuming they're licensed to sell where you are so not sure of the hesitancy as many of us are insured by companies headquartered elsewhere. I'm insured through some outfit in the UK who uses insurers from all over the place.
 
I like the IMIS folks too but don't forget to get a quote from an insurance broker in Louisiana. Sometimes they can do better for a boat domiciled in the same state they are located in.

I was told this by the Atlass Agency in Ft. Lauderdale in regards to Florida domiciled vessels.
 
seasalt007 said:
I like the IMIS folks too but don't forget to get a quote from an insurance broker in Louisiana. Sometimes they can do better for a boat domiciled in the same state they are located in.

I was told this by the Atlass Agency in Ft. Lauderdale in regards to Florida domiciled vessels.
Click to expand...

There are many excellent brokers in South Florida. Since you mentioned Atlass, I'll use them as an example to show the value of carefully selecting a broker. They represent the following marine insurers: Ace, Chubb, Falvey, AIG, Prime Time, SeaWave, Lloyd's, OneBeacon, Geico, Great American, Navigators, and Travelers. Another broker will have a different list, but any good broker has many ways to turn and they'll quickly know those most likely to benefit you.

As to Louisiana, I don't have an immediate suggestion, but not sure having someone local is necessary. Most of the brokers I'm aware of in Louisiana specialize in Commercial Marine coverage.
 
I had a non renewal on my car insurance once. After being a good customer for quite awhile the insurance company said they weren't going to renew my policy. The letter pretty much said that while admitting that over many years I'd didn't have any claims or tickets, statistically I was due for an accident pretty soon and they were getting out while they could.

Of course when shopping for replacement insurance, one of the questions the new insurance companies ask is "Have you ever been denied coverage or received a non-renewal notice?"
 
I'm another happy customer with IMIS. This year's renewal with Ace / Chub only had about a 1% increase. Having a very good insurance broker is key.

Ted
 
I have BoatUS/Geico which is coming up for renewal. Started my search just to compare and at the suggestion of others filled out the online form for Pantaenius. Received an email saying that due to change in underwriting they could not offer me insurance. I asked what it was specifically that caused it but no response from them. Older boat, no inspection in 3 years, not sure.
 
We use Geico, through Boat US. We just got our premium notice and it went up $300, but, we kind of figured on that coming (no points for surviving Nate unscathed, apparently) with all of the hurricane losses this year.

Funny thing is we have Progressive Insurance on our center console. You'd think it would be cheaper to have two boat policies with the same underwriter. Nope. Insurance pricing has got to be the biggest voodoo economics in the world.
 
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Along with that non-renewal notice comes a stealth ding to getting replacement insurance. Remember seeing that question on the application that asks if you've ever been refused insurance or received a notice of non- renewal? It's going to cost you additional premium, even though it may be through no fault of your own. I had a claim with Falvey and had to threaten legal action to get them to settle the claim, even with that it took 6 months to finally get a check. They sent the check, and the non-renewal followed a week later. My replacement policy premiums were increased for 2 yrs as a result, according to the underwriter. BTW, the claim was a break-in, I was 1,000 miles from the boat at the time, but I guess they concluded it was my fault. Terrible people to deal with, snarky adjuster. Good riddance, no small wonder they're out of the marine business.
 
When an insurance policy is due to expire, the insurance company and/or the customer has the right to not renew the policy (or also known as a contract).
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
When an insurance policy is due to expire, the insurance company and/or the customer has the right to not renew the policy (or also known as a contract).
Click to expand...

It's fine that an insurance company decides not to renew. However, if they choose not to renew, the insuree now has a black mark against them which may be for no fault of their own.

If an insurance company decides for some business reason not to renew, they should be required to supply a letter to the insuree that absolves the insuree of any fault in the decision for nonrenewal (if that is the case) the can be used when buying new insurance.
 
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I am in the biz and also own a trawler located in Florida. Not much to say beyond what has already been said, except to advise to stay away from foreign insurers (except Lloyds). If anyone mentions Northern Reef Insurance of South America or Edward William Insurance (Spain) don't walk, run away as fast as you can. Stick with known markets. Perhaps another broker was a good suggestion?
 
Mike Lowthian said:
I am in the biz and also own a trawler located in Florida. Not much to say beyond what has already been said, except to advise to stay away from foreign insurers (except Lloyds). If anyone mentions Northern Reef Insurance of South America or Edward William Insurance (Spain) don't walk, run away as fast as you can. Stick with known markets. Perhaps another broker was a good suggestion?
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate or be more specific on foreign advisory. Do you mean those not licensed to do business in your state or include companies like Chubb and Pantaenius. I noted the only one you specifically excepted was Lloyd's. Then you mention Northern Reef and Edward William who are not insurers just insurance agents. So, a bit confused about your point.
 
Any insurer who is not licensed in your state should be avoided. Ask your broker specifically or check them out on the web. Chubb is a well known American company and I am sure is licensed in all states. I don't know about Pantaenius? Edward William are exclusive agents of Northern Reef who I doubt are licensed anywhere. Beware of them, from personal experience.
 
Mike Lowthian said:
Any insurer who is not licensed in your state should be avoided. Ask your broker specifically or check them out on the web. Chubb is a well known American company and I am sure is licensed in all states. I don't know about Pantaenius? Edward William are exclusive agents of Northern Reef who I doubt are licensed anywhere. Beware of them, from personal experience.
Click to expand...

Technically, Chubb is a Swiss Company. That's why I was trying to get to a specific warning and now you've done it, recommending avoiding any insurer not licensed in your state.
 
Just became aware of the "non-renewal stealth ding", Steve. Another FYTW from the insurance biz.

Appreciate all of the thoughtful responses. Good info that I can use. Working the problem now. Work keeps getting in the way.
 
Panteneius have developed a bad reputation for avoiding claims in the wake of Hurricane irma , Particularly in the BVI's. As such the people in the boatyard I was in are forming a class suite against them. Would not touch them or there parent (Geman) company with a barge pole.
 
I was insured in LLoyds through Blue Water in FT L and after sadly losing my boat during Hurricane Irma, I found them polite, helpful, and diligent in spite of being swarmed with claims in the BVI's, and eastern Caribbean.
 
I believe everyone's insurance will increase as a result of the hurricanes. Doesn't matter where you live. The insurance companies have to recoup their loses some where.
 
I am in the process of renewal. Just got a quote from Maritime insurance intl. I believe they are a broker b/c the quote is from New Hampshire Ins co.

I have Boat US. They raised my premium 25% before the storms from $1200 to $1600 with zero claims. Probably due to Geico. This is only from Morehead NC north and no ocean cruising.

New policy is a little larger value, and the cruising range is Bahamas, gulf, etc. Then north of Cumberland Island Ga during hurricane season.

With this massive increase in cruising area my premium (oh yeah added dinghy ins too) is $964 once I get my policy.

That my friends is a huge difference. I started with Boat us because no survey req'd.
 
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