Jabsco 37010 "Quiet Flush" -- Recirculating water???!

[oak_box]

I have a Jabsco 37010-3092 "Quiet Flush" compact electric toilet installed in my aft head.

The head uses sea water for flushing. The "sea water" in the marina is pretty nasty, and results in "unpleasant" smells... Thus, I've closed the thru-hull, and use a cup to pour tap water into the bowl, using only the "dry flush" option on the toilet.

I've noticed that when I get the tank pumped out, and pour in the typical blue chemical treatment - that I see blue water coming down from the rim of the bowl after the next several flushes!

Is the toilet supposed to do some amount of "recirculation" to save water - or do I just have a broken toilet? Or is this a result of not allowing sea water to be used?

Has anyone observed recirculation in their head when flushing the brightly colored holding tank chemicals?

Thanks!

 

[HeadMistress]

No, it should not recirculate. It's not a result of flushing by adding water to the bowl with a cup. Anything coming into the bowl via the channel in the rim has be coming in via the intake line. Is there a cartridge in that line with chemical in it (which can be blue or green) that's supposed to eliminate the odor from dead and decaying micro or not-so-micro sea life. If not, I'm guessing you have a broken toilet. How old is it?


--Peggie

 

[oak_box]

Peggie,

The toilets were replaced by a previous owner - not sure if it was one or two owners ago. They don't appear to be terribly old.

I did notice that it looks like the forward toilet is plumbed with: inlet thru-hull goes to pump and solenoid, then to toilet. On the aft toilet, it looks like the thru-hull goes to the pump, with no solenoid.

From looking at the Jabsco documentation a while back (and I may have gotten this wrong...) - it looked like that toilet has a single motor that drives both the macerator to expel stuff, and also the impeller/pump to bring in liquid and pump it through the rim.

I had been hopeful that if I disconnected the wire from the control panel that activates the water pump, that I wouldn't get any sea water in the bowl. That doesn't appear to be the case (at least certainly not on the aft head that is missing the solenoid). Looks like the macerator still sucks water in past the water pump, even if the water pump isn't turned on... Can that be?

 

[HeadMistress]

First, the Jabsco 37010 is not a "Quiet Flush" toilet..it's Jabsco's basic macerating electric toilet. It's a sea water toilet that does not have nor need a solenoid valve--solenoid valves are only needed with toilets designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water. They're wired to the flush button and function like a sink faucet to allow or block flush water. However it may need a vented loop in the intake line if the toilet is installed at or below waterline, but ONLY if installed at or below waterline...none is needed if the toilet is above waterline.

The 37010 does have a single motor that powers the pump assembly connected to it. The intake and discharge "pumps" are actually just two impellers...part #27 in the exploded drawing on page 3 in the documentation is the intake "pump" (flexible impeller) that pulls flush water in...part #16 is the discharge "pump("centrifugal impeller) that pushes bowl contents out. The macerator is just a blender-like blade that Jabsco calls a "chopper plate (part #14) that's just ahead of the discharge impeller that purees solids and TP.

I have no idea which wire you disconnected, but as long as the motor runs, the intake impeller will pull in at least some water. There's only one way to stop incoming flow: close the intake thru-hull...which is not a good idea because that will cause the intake impeller to run dry, which will "fry it."

If a solenoid valve was installed when you bought the boat, it had to have been done by a PO who plumbed it use pressurized fresh water...bad idea because sea water toilets do not have the built-in protections--backflow preventer, anti-siphon device and a couple of other things that prevent bacteria from the bowl from contaminating your fresh water supply, and also because sea water toilets are designed to PULL flush water in...pressurized flush water PUSHES it through the pump assembly, which can negatively impact component alignment.

So I hate to break it to you, but if you want to flush with fresh water, your only choice is a toilet designed to use it. I checked to see if Jabsco offers a pump/motor assembly "conversion"...they do, but the best price I could find is barely $100 less than the complete toilet and for those prices you could upgrade to a Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf or their SeaEra QC Raritan SeaEra QC if the Elegance won't fit your space.

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

I agree completely with the Marine Elegance head. They are great.

 

[High Wire]

The Jabsco has one seal that separates the seawater side of the pump and the waste side. If there is excessive back pressure on the waste hose to the holding tank then this seal will prematurely fail. The waste then gets forced into the seawater side and comes out of the bowl rim.
Check that the outlet hose to tank is clear. There is a rebuild kit for the toilet if you want to go that route. We went new Marine Elegance fresh water flush. No more smell.

 

[Rufus]

A raw water flush head can be converted to freshwater flush using the Jabsco anti-syphon/solenoid valve depicted in the link. I used it on two older Raritan units. Locate it above the rim of the bowl for safety. The valve is sensitive to debris in freshwater lines, but it's also simple to remove and clean (once in 15 years). I removed the raw water intake pumps as they are the primary noise makers. BoatID has the valve @ $166. The price was $74 fifteen years ago...

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8Oedl...=79db1765592119b0f4d87596fce80231&ntb=1&ntb=1

 

[Comodave]

A raw water flush head can be converted to freshwater flush using the Jabsco anti-syphon/solenoid valve depicted in the link. I used it on two older Raritan units. Locate it above the rim of the bowl for safety. The valve is sensitive to debris in freshwater lines, but it's also simple to remove and clean (once in 15 years). I removed the raw water intake pumps as they are the primary noise makers. BoatID has the valve @ $166. The price was $74 fifteen years ago...

https://www.bing.com/aclk?ld=e8Oedl...=79db1765592119b0f4d87596fce80231&ntb=1&ntb=1

Yes, but it still is a Jabsco Quiet Flush (not quiet). Bite the bullet and get a Marine Elegance. And be done with the problems.

 

[Rufus]

....just responding to an earlier post that says it's not possible to convert a raw water flush unit.

 

[jleonard]

....just responding to an earlier post that says it's not possible to convert a raw water flush unit.

I also converted a Jabsco to fresh water flush. Without the water impeller it is extremely quiet.

 

[Comodave]

I also converted a Jabsco to fresh water flush. Without the water impeller it is extremely quiet.

That would be nice. We had a Quiet Flush that would wake the dead in a previous boat. I never wanted another one.

 

[oak_box]

The Admiral wants to get rid of the electric head and get a manual head. She had manual heads on her previous boat, and liked them. Her experience using a cup to add water instead of pumping in sea water went well.

Is it reasonable to install a manual head, plug the inlet hose, and just assume the user will always manually add water?

The admiral's argument against a Marine Elegance (aside from $$) is that they consume electric power and water. If we ever get out on the hook for an extended period, both of those would be limited.

 

[rslifkin]

The Admiral wants to get rid of the electric head and get a manual head. She had manual heads on her previous boat, and liked them. Her experience using a cup to add water instead of pumping in sea water went well.

Is it reasonable to install a manual head, plug the inlet hose, and just assume the user will always manually add water?

The admiral's argument against a Marine Elegance (aside from $$) is that they consume electric power and water. If we ever get out on the hook for an extended period, both of those would be limited.

With an appropriate intake pump a marine elegance can be configured for raw water flush. Power use for an electric head is minimal so I wouldn't worry about that part.

 

[BruceK]

The Quiet Flush is near silent compared to the 37010 which, used late at night, has the ability to awaken an entire mooring field.

 

[High Wire]

The Quiet Flush is near silent compared to the 37010 which, used late at night, has the ability to awaken an entire mooring field.

AAAAAOOOOOGGGGGAAAAA!!! AAAAAOOOOOGGGGGAAAAA!!! Dive! Dive!

 

[HeadMistress]

....just responding to an earlier post that says it's not possible to convert a raw water flush unit.

I didn't say it's not possible...I said it should not be done. Every toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions.

Just rerouting the intake line to tee into a fresh water line using a solenoid valve w/vented loop doesn't actually "convert" it. That would also require installing a back flow preventer, without which there's nothing to prevent flush water from migrating into the into the fresh water plumbing when the water pump is off, not keeping it pressurized.

There are 3 way to do anything...the right way, the wrong way and what some guy has gotten away with for 20 years and will continue to do so as long as his luck holds out.

--Peggie

 

[jleonard]

When I converted mine, I did it exactly like the instructions showed for the Sea Era I installed in the other head. Solenoid valve, backflow preventer at the right height,etc.
It was done correctly

 

[Rufus]

When I converted mine, I did it exactly like the instructions showed for the Sea Era I installed in the other head. Solenoid valve, backflow preventer at the right height,etc.
It was done correctly

Likewise.

 

[SoWhat]

The admiral's argument against a Marine Elegance (aside from $$) is that they consume electric power and water. If we ever get out on the hook for an extended period, both of those would be limited.

If you're on the hook, you're probably in an NDZ and your stay is limited by holding tank capacity. Guessing your fresh water supply vastly exceeds your holding tank. Power is not an issue. Shouldn't need to flush for more than 8 sec. 3 or 4 times a day.

If it's yellow let it mellow. If it's brown flush it down.

 

[Comodave]

The ME can be programmed to use very little water. It also doesn’t use a whole lot of power. As said above only a few times a day. In the scheme of things it isn’t much water or power.

 

[gilbertpark]

What blue chemical treatment are you adding? The next question is why? Holding tanks don't smell and some of the chemicals in "blue chemical treatments" are poisonous to the environment, septic tanks and the like. Plus they cost money!

Gilbert

 

[Bduffey]

Morning,

We have Raritan Marine Elegance heads and they work very well. There is another option available. We have a switch to choose sea water or fresh. That requires, of course, that it be plumbed for both. Then you decide when using it which way to go. It appears to be a Raritan option, as the switch looks identical to the fill/flush one. They also make a completely auto flushing control system that is adjustable on fill times, etc.

Raritan has great customer service and you can actually talk with their service folks who are very helpful. I had my Icerette fail a month after warranty ended and got a brand new replacement, that only cost me the return shipping of the old one. They also have most parts in stock and ship quickly.

Good luck

 

[Comodave]

What blue chemical treatment are you adding? The next question is why? Holding tanks don't smell and some of the chemicals in "blue chemical treatments" are poisonous to the environment, septic tanks and the like. Plus they cost money!

Gilbert

The stuff in a holding tank can smell very bad if there isn’t enough air flow into the tank. If you have sufficient air flow into the tank you don’t need any chemicals.

 

[ranger58sb]

Yes, but it still is a Jabsco Quiet Flush (not quiet). Bite the bullet and get a Marine Elegance. And be done with the problems.

I also converted a Jabsco to fresh water flush. Without the water impeller it is extremely quiet.

That would be nice. We had a Quiet Flush that would wake the dead in a previous boat. I never wanted another one.

The Quiet Flush is near silent compared to the 37010 which, used late at night, has the ability to awaken an entire mooring field.

AAAAAOOOOOGGGGGAAAAA!!! AAAAAOOOOOGGGGGAAAAA!!! Dive! Dive!

Our QF 37045 was indeed pretty quiet... when the motor/pump assembly was new. Over time, apparently, it gradually gets louder.

I discovered all that when ours developed a small seal leak, at about the 10-year-old mark IIRC. Replacing the pump/motor assembly made a boatload of difference... immediately back to quiet.

Haven't ever heard a Marine Elegance to compare...

-Chris

 

[Duetto]

hi,

as documented there is a single lip seal which separates the chopper chamber/exhaust impeller from the input impeller. if the exhaust impeller is setup with too much clearance to the wear plate, waste water will find its way into the input chamber. the directions in the rebuild kit give faulty dimension settings. i called their support and was told to position the exhause impeller as a snug fit to the wear plate.

maybe a po rebuilt the toilet pump assembly.

 

[Duetto]

another thought. that toilet has a joker valve in the base where the waste hose is connected. overtime salt/urine/crap build up on the lips of the rubber valve. this build up can/will prevent the valve from closing. if the valve doesn't close you'll get waste leaking back into the base of the bowl.

try putting a cup of white vinegar in the toilet and let it sit for say an hour. then do a quick flush and let it sit for another half hour. then pour a gallon of fresh water in bowl and flush. this may or may not fix the joker valve. you might want to just replace the valve. it's 3 screws and takes about an hour. we do the vinegar at the end of everytime we're on the boat.

 

[ScottC]

you might want to just replace the valve. it's 3 screws and takes about an hour. we do the vinegar at the end of everytime we're on the boat.

I experienced the pleasure of this little project this year. I replaced the joker valve and water was still coming back into the toilet to a small degree. I removed the three screws again and examined the plastic "flange" and pipe the joker valve fits into. It had quite a bit of "urine stone" built up there, which was causing even the new joker valve from closing in a proper way. I chipped off the "stone" gradually with a small screwdriver. It was a slow process, but after about 10 minutes of chipping, my flange was as good as new. After re-installation, everything worked fine. I found the bottom screw of the three very difficult to access on my boat. Despite my 250pc "jewelry box" toolkit onboard, I found the only screwdriver I had that would fit was a small boy scout promotional screwdriver that I've had for 50 years. The plastic "flange"/pipe seems a bit flimsy to me and I worry that any unintentional pressure in the wrong direction on the discharge hose could break it. I will be ordering a spare flange to carry aboard -- just in case. I now also carry three extra joker valves, as they are not so commonly found on the shelf in the areas in which I'm currently cruising.

 

[Wayne]

Don't use Bleach to Sanitize

The joker valve on many, if not all, marine toilets is susceptible to bleach as the chlorine attacks the rubber. The joker valve then is totally useless as it swells and contorts, necessitating replacement.