Leak in a stern tube

[psneeld]

Sorry for your issues...just wish I was there sharing in those hog salmon like I used to on Kodiak.

The pics I sent showed how one guy cut out his tube and got another in. The best would be to slip another in if all the diameters worked.

I can send the rest of the pics...just email me a ps neeld all one word....dot yahoo dot com. And I will send the rest of the photos and anything else I can help with.

 

[seasalt007]

One thing I am pretty sure of, as mentioned above, you have got to stop the water coming in from outside to fix it from the inside. Happened to me on my Nordic 42 when I had to have a new tube glassed in. There were some old set screws holding the original cutlass bearing in place,,,in hard to reach places.. and neither I or a boat yard employee could get the screw even stated in the water because of pressure. Had to haul the boat, glass up the set screw hole and drill a new one. This fix was in Marathon, FL and it lasted until I got to Deltaville, VA before it gave way and the new tube was put in.

 

[skipperdude]

Seeing as how the stern tube is sort of a shaft Ally and always full of water and pressurized even more when underway due to the scoops on the side of the keel the only answer is to haul the boat. I hope I don't have to slice into the Keel as pictured in a previous post. I haven't seen the sort of thing on other boats before anyone have any experience with it is it common? Looking at it today the large rubber hose on my stuffing box looks like a balloon full of water.

 

[cappy208]

? Looking at it today the large rubber hose on my stuffing box looks like a balloon full of water.

That hose is past its expected lifespan. It needs to be replaced ASAP.

Do you understand the concept of temporarily plugging the cutlass bearing and water holes from the outside with wax? (Via a diver) While in the water? So the inside of the tube can dry up (no pressure or flowing water to 'push off' any repair you attempt) The pressure from the water outside will 'push' the wax into and hold it against the cutlass and shaft and onto the small water inlet vents. But since the wax is stiff it won't just fall 'into' the holes. Once you get the area inside dried up you can slather it with your epoxy, resin, fiberglass, whatever. You have to stop the leak for a temporary repair to hold.

The good thing about the wax, It just falls off when you put the engine in gear. You don't have to go back overboard to clear it off. Ordinary toilet bowl wax rings from any hardware store work.

 

[skipperdude]

Cappy in order to get the boot off I think I need to remove the shaft coupling. I'm not sure if the shaft will slid back far enough to remove and replace the hose. When I first noticed the problem it was some how the stuffing box stoped dripping. It got so hot it boiled and filled the ER with steam. I loosened the gland and was able to make it back to the harbor without the shaft overheating again. That's when I discovered the leak in the bulkhead wall behind the stuffing box. I think I am goig to have to cut away a portion of the bulkhead to determine the nature of the leak. I'm just hesitant to do anything while in the water. If I start cutting away I may wind up with a gusher. Do you think the wax will hold well enough to attempt repair? You said it will fall off. How quickly? Do you think I would have time to get to the travel lift should the need arise?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Skipperdude,
Any fairly steep beaches nearby? Let the beach be your tidal grid. Tie up to the beach on the beam. I thought about doing that to change props and avoid the $180 haul fee. The idea makes me a bit nervous though. Would need lines to deadheads or anchors and tied to cleats on the far rail .. perhaps over the house as well.

If the beach is quite flat the boat may heel too much and fill w water. A steeper beach would be less of a problem depending on the difference of your chine and keel heights.

This is not a recomendation and I've not done it but I've seen it done. If you start taking on lots of water it could be an option.

 

[skipperdude]

I have done it. the only place is about 30 miles out. If I couldn't fix the problem I would be way to far to get any help. It's hard enough gettings things done in whittier. No hardware store no boat yard and no mechanics. Well there is a boatyard of sorts mostly just full of dead boats and a few places to work on your own boat.
Sd

 

[psneeld]

Cappy in order to get the boot off I think I need to remove the shaft coupling. I'm not sure if the shaft will slid back far enough to remove and replace the hose. When I first noticed the problem it was some how the stuffing box stoped dripping. It got so hot it boiled and filled the ER with steam. I loosened the gland and was able to make it back to the harbor without the shaft overheating again. That's when I discovered the leak in the bulkhead wall behind the stuffing box. I think I am goig to have to cut away a portion of the bulkhead to determine the nature of the leak. I'm just hesitant to do anything while in the water. If I start cutting away I may wind up with a gusher. Do you think the wax will hold well enough to attempt repair? You said it will fall off. How quickly? Do you think I would have time to get to the travel lift should the need arise?

I don't think there is a rush to handle the leak from the crack..not too infrequent in older glass boats.

Now the packing gland rubber hose has to last....do you think it will? Can you reinforce it in any way? Even if only with an inch of duct tape around it so it doesn't catastrophically fail?

I would plan to only fiddle with all the other stuff when you can haul. Hate to say it but without knowing what you really have...I would be hesitant to start any "destructive" repair assesments while in the water and just a tide cycle may not be long enough.

 

[cappy208]

SD. The wax is what professional divers use to staunch the flow of water around shafts or in cracks to lessen the flow to DO a better temporary repair inside the hull. The wax is in NO WAY any kind of repair. It is what's done to make the repair easier. The wax is flung off when you start the engine/put it in gear AFTER the repairs are made. This is two separate steps to cut down on the flow of water to even be able to SEE the leak. Regarding the rubber hose. That is something that needs to be done soon. But it's secondary to the shaft tube being cracked, broken or leaking.

Why can't you see directly DOWN into the back of the tube? What's above it? I would be hesitant to cut major athwart ship bulkheads. These are what give the hull rigidity and strength.

Think about it this way: The boat was made to be accessed. Figure out how/where to access it. Without compromising the structural integrity.

Btw, What brand, model, year is it? I can help by digging around on 'net to see if anyone else has done This. What does your boat draw? And how big is the wheel?

 

[skipperdude]

Yeah I don't know what I really have either. I only know of one diver in the area. He doesn't like to dive in the harbor. Oil and gas in the water started destroying his dry suit.

 

[skipperdude]

Cappy. My boat is one of a kind. Definitely not made with repair in mind. The carpenter who built it started with a bare hull. And built it from there up. The shaft way is encased under an insulated 10,000 lb fish hold. She has three water tight bulkheads. The ER is amidships. She has a semi soft chine with a bilge keel running from stem to stern and a full keel below water 24 x 16 wheel cat 3208 n.a for power.
Sd

 

[Datenight]

SkipperDude,

I had a leaky stern tube in the old boat. There was a false floor over the tube which I cut away to expose the tube. Also had to remove a lot of stinking, discusting foam. Bought a new tube from a local supplier, had the local yard glass it in but think I could have done it.

I posted some photos of the old tube exposed then cut out. The thread was Monk 36 Leaky Stern Tube, post on 10-10-2013. Can't find the photos of the completed job.

Best of luck.

Rob

 

[cappy208]

I'd try to cut open the floor of the hold area. And dig out the foam. Just try to measure out where so you don't have to cut too big a hole. Leave the bulkheads in place. Go DOWN instead. You said you were good at the FG stuff. So putting back the insulation and hold should be a snap! Way easier to FG what can't be seen that what can?. And don't cut too deep into the hull. That would suk. Earlier comment. What is tide range there? Is there a dock you can tie to, and slightly list the boat ON the dock, and let the tide go out to get the water pressure off the leak? Just check out the bottom make sure it's flat and not rocky. Hate to sit the boat down on rocks for 6 hours

 

[Brooksie]

Building a wooden lobsterboat with a friend and just finished installing stern tube. This may be of some use to you. After boring through the white oak keel for the slaft, we lined the hole, 7' long, with a length of type L copper tubing and left it stick out inboard to receive the stuffing box hose. Then we drilled in through the side of the keel not thu the copper, in the center of the run and squeezed in a tube of 5200. When it started to emerge on the outside, we nailed a piece of wood over it and continued squeezing till it came out inboard. Done, no rot in the shafthole, no growth on the copper.

 

[LarryM]

Looking at it today the large rubber hose on my stuffing box looks like a balloon full of water.

Skipperdude,

I have re-read this thread and the swollen rubber hose is what worries me the most. Others have mentioned repair materials and clamps to temporarily reinforce the hose until you can replace it. I suggest you also pick up a roll of Rescue Tape Self-Fusing Silicone Tape for this and any other emergency hose leaks you may encounter. It can even be applied to wet, dirty or oily surfaces.

Good luck

 

[cappy208]

I see a travellift in Whittier? Isn't that where you are? That would cost money (knowing how expensive AK is.....) But that would be the way to go.


From re reading these posts, You installed an engine. The engine bed mounts came adrift, the stern tube is leaking, the stuffing box hose is pretty shot.


You have to refasten the engine to the beds. (so it doesn't completely break the stern tube. and possibly have it aligned correctly) If you keep running the engine out of alignment and loose, who knows what else could break, come adrift or fracture.


You have to at least get to SEE the stern tube to even know what is cracked, broken, or needing repair. (which means dried up and visible)


You need to get the stuffing box hose replaced. (or patched, doubled up and wrapped) ((Those were good ideas BTW))


If you could get access to be able to SEE what is going on back at the stern tube you could make a better decision about what to do and how to do it. For all you know, it could be something OTHER than the stern tube. It could be a leak in the washdown line from the engine going to the deck line! How many times a minute, hour, day does the bilge pump come on? any difference when running? How many gallons does it pump when it does cycle? (in other words, how big is the leak???)


Do you have any place like this to put your boat against a dock at high tide, and let the tide go out? At least to see if it lessens the inflow of water during the drop in tide? Notice how the boats lightly lean against the docks for support. I notice there is between an 8 and 11 ft tide there. Would be nice to use that to get the boat out of the water to stop the leak for free!

 

[skipperdude]

The big problem is I can't see anything it's all fiberglassed in. It looks like the tube was installed and the glassed over in the construction of the fish hold. Nothing is visible from in hull or out. That is why I said I need to cut into the bulkhead separating the ER from the fish hold. (Which is basically a large fiberglass tub setting just aft of mid ships.) The bulkhead is about 8 inches thick. Consisting of 3/4 plywood about 6 inches of insulation then plywood and fiberglass. The insulation is to separate the heat of the ER from the fish hold. The hose in question is right up against the back of the bulkhead maybe an inch clearance. With pry bars and a bottle jack I dit realign the engine and replaced the mounting bolts. Now that I know how to post pics I will do so tomorrow when I get back to Whittier.

Sd

 

[skipperdude]

well this is what I've got as you can see that hose looks like a balloon around my stuffing box and that's all I can see there's no place else to look at anything. I've got to cut away part of the bulkhead even to see where it's leaking the bilge pump seems to be keeping up with it it comes on briefly every couple of hours and I've bought some rescue tape so I'm going to tape off that balloon and hope that holds until I can get it out of the water

 

[skipperdude]

You can see how the fiberglass on the bulkhead is kind of swollen too. Looks like this may have been an ongoing problem I just never noticed it before. It's kind of hidden underneath the step that I use to get down into the engine room. When my stuffing box plugged or whatever happened to it to cause it to quit dripping, got so hot that it sort of melted the inside of that rubber hose causing it to balloon like it did.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Dude,
On your way to being hauled or equivalant stay as close to beaches as you can ...... I should re-word that. Keep a beach fairly close. And do it soon.

When you said your hose was "swelled up like a balloon" .. I was thinking like about 1/8" .. or so. Dude that thing is scary ... and I used to fly hang gliders.

 

[skipperdude]

I wonder should I Poke a hole in that hose. (It's just full of water.) Before I wrap the rescue tape around it? Never used this tape before.

Sd

 

[cappy208]

I wonder should I Poke a hole in that hose. (It's just full of water.) Before I wrap the rescue tape around it? Never used this tape before.

Sd

NOOOOOOOOOOO. It's expanding because its so weak and deteriorated. Poking a hole would be like sticking a pin in a balloon. THe whole thing will POP. That's the only thing keeping the boat afloat. Just wrap snugly in the tape, and MB said it best, make your way along shore, have a skiff to tow with an outboard, and stay close to shore. You said it was 30 miles to Whittier? So, figuring a nice easy pace 6 knots, that would be 5 hours. Do it in daylight, on a calm day. I believe the current will be a consideration, no? Try to time it for fair current as much as possible. Take it easy running to Whittier. Let someone know you are making the trip, and when to expect you in Whittier.

You're probably correct about the swollen plywood under the glass. Go get help in Whittier.

I know things are obscenely expensive in AK. But that's the nature of the beast there. Just go get hauled out.

Regarding the leak in the tube (or wherever it is), it looks to me like the builder simply poured the foam over the tube and plywooded and glassed it in place. I can't imagine getting to this without taking out a strip of the fish hold and insulation. You may get to it via an outside cut in the keel, but since it went IN through the top, I bet it would be easiest to repair from the top. I'd rather compromise the integrity of the fish hold than the hull/keel doing a repair.

 

[LarryM]

I wonder should I Poke a hole in that hose. (It's just full of water.) Before I wrap the rescue tape around it?

Sd

Skipperdude,

That looks way worse that I imagined it ever could. OK, if your draft is say 5', then there is only about 17psi of water pressure on the inside of the hose. While it is tempting to puncture it to 'relieve the pressure', I don't think I would disturb it any further. Other TF are welcome to chime in here . . .

First, make sure you have a decent drip from the stuffing box at the shaft so that it does not overheat, seize and tear loose from the stern tube.

Next, make sure your bilge pump strainers and surrounding bilge is clean and cannot clog in the event you end up relying on the pumps to stay afloat.

Next, the tape. Rescue Tape has a tensile strength of over 950psi, so if you are able to wrap the entire hose and as much of the stern tube and stuffing box as you can, it will likely prevent any catastrophic leakage until you can get it replaced. I would clean it as best you can and make multiple layers of wrapping, kind of like an Ace bandage. Use plenty of it.

Finally, find the closest yard and get it fixed ASAP!

 

[skipperdude]

A little better picture of it

 

[skipperdude]

There is no boat yard in whittier just a boat junkyard. Strictly a do it myself.

 

[CPseudonym]

There is no boat yard in whittier just a boat junkyard. Strictly a do it myself.

That's why I love Alaskans, get-r-done yourself or not at all.

I'd get Apache out of the water ASAP or your next trip could be in a dry suit. I'd consider towing it just to not chance that sucker(that and you don't want to make that trip alone). Something definitely went pear shaped when you aligned the engine.

Sorry Dude but it's only money, you'll just have to go catch more fish and prawns to pay for it.

 

[skipperdude]

well I've got a wrap with some of the rescue tape I'm going to try to put another layer on

 

[skipperdude]

Tough going trying to compress the baloon

 

[cappy208]

You don't have to 'compress' it. Just wrap snuggly so it doesn't expand more and completely burst. Think of it like putting a pair of support hose on your legs. They don't make your leg get back to normal, they just help if from getting swollen larger.

I looked on google, and there is a travellift in Whittier. Everything else looks pretty barren.

Some food for thought. The engine jumping off the bed (even if only partially) would be enough to rub the stuffing box and over heat it, and crack the stern tube. My money is on the engine being out of alignment causing all this ruckus.

You mention that it is not pumping more than once a couple hours. So, Is it worse when you run the engine? Worse when the shaft is turning? Check those things out. If it stays like it is with the engine running, and the shaft turning, then you may get away with running to Whittier. If it gets WAY worse when the shaft is turning, then the mentioned tow would be better.

Having hauled boats off beaches, and towed quite a few sinking boats, Sometimes running the engine on a boat with problems shakes the broken stuff worse, and allows bigger leaks. Sometimes it is best to leave a boat shut off, and just tow it, to keep vibrations, shaking and wobbling to a minimum. You will have to make that judgement call whether you can run her or not.

Regarding the pic of the hose on the stuffing box, it looks like it was twisted, from the misalignment, and heat. That looks really bad. Like terrible.

 

[skipperdude]

with the rescue tape and multiple layers a duck tape at least it's hard now it's not a balloon anymore.i do what I have to do to get home. I think it will make it.